The weird people you meet in Group Finder.

[ZentheSecond]

Anyone else ever get the feeling the group your with is way to afraid to say anything to you? I had that feeling in a HM Black Talon with two fresh 50s and one fresh 54 I think. I was on my Sin que'ing cause I still want/need Isotopes which are basic comms (50HM daily GF is basics). But I am there in a mix of Dread Forged and Dread Master with my Gate Crasher title. And the whole run I felt like they were to scared to say anything to me (like slow down or something). Maybe it was just my imagination.

 

 

My lowbie Sin had a horrid Hammer Station. No CC so we wiped on that double elite thrash, and wiped on the droid cause my healer was really a Dps. Which at this stage is hardly a difference so I tend to shrug it off, but they did not even have a simple understanding of Merc healing. I ended up dropping as on the way back the marauder goes the wrong way (shortcut had been opened) and pulled things. I just smelled bad things in that group. Reque'ed and got an actual semi good healer and one shot everything.

This also made me realize one thing; early game Sin tanks suck. No defensive Cooldowns till lvl 24 (deflection). Makes early FPs rough vs Jugg/PT tanks that get one defensive by the time they get to Kaas.

[BigBreakfast]

...Maybe it was just my imagination.

 

I've seen something else (not exactly related to your example) that I think might be my imagination.

 

I've only seen it during KDY runs. We all know the players that HAVE to be the ones to click the shiny things. Even if someone is already channeling, or already heading in that direction, they will rocket boost/force speed their way over and do it first. It's.. annoying.

 

So one time I encountered such a player, a sorc. No matter what, force speed in front of everyone to be first at everything.. even to wait for the rest of us. They did that to me several times as I was heading to click something, and each time I let out a sigh of frustration and did a 360 (haha jk 180). So I waited for a good moment when their force speed was out, and rocket boosted ahead of them, muahaha .

 

The moment I passed them, they quit group.

 

Sudden, coincidental RL aggro, or rage quit because they weren't first? I like to think the latter, but it could just be my imagination.

[sanctified]

This also made me realize one thing; early game Sin tanks suck. No defensive Cooldowns till lvl 24 (deflection). Makes early FPs rough vs Jugg/PT tanks that get one defensive by the time they get to Kaas.

 

See, I reached the opposite conclusion: I find lowbie Sin tanks really easy to use because they can hold aggro on everything in front of them by spamming overload and discharge, only to get a bit more complex later on due to that twelve second window they get to keep up their mitigation. I spend more time looking at my screen for energize procs then I do enjoying my tank.

 

Juggernauts on the other hand start out so gimped, that you're reduced to using line of sight pulls to hold aggro on trash for fifteen straight levels, only to end up being super user-friendly and easy to use by max level. I love my powertech, but saber reflect is so godly that it lets me act like a total melvin with my pulls and still look good in front of strangers.

[JouerTue]

It's just what I've heard from experienced healers.

 

they have just wrong experience i fear.

 

on topic: i've been almost kicked by DP SM, when i pointed out how going all left in first portal phase at calphayus is the noobest thing i've ever heard..we cleared it, but i had to swap role with a dps to kite raptus since the ''we ar enot nubs'' group didn't have volunteers to do that.

[krumsey]

This has been mentioned before but damn---

 

I was tanking sm cadameimu on my baby jugg the other day, had an assassin and a sorc dps, both used overload on CD on trash as part of their dps rotations. Ironically the only time they couldnt manage to use it correctly was trying to push the champion patrol droids over the ledges, but they were sure good and knocking them down a hallway into the next group of trash. There's nothing like the feeling when you have 1 aoe threat (at the level i was) and watching dps scatter mobs and knock them just outside your range every-single-time.

 

I've also started encountering DPS running in tank stance and guarding and acting confused when I point out to them that Ion cell is for tanking and they queued for dps. =/

[Ryuku-sama]

I've also started encountering DPS running in tank stance and guarding and acting confused when I point out to them that Ion cell is for tanking and they queued for dps. =/

 

When I roll tank or healer I also queue as DPS. In SM a healer can easily do some good DPS (merc and sorc can at least). And, if the tank can't hold aggro against me when I'm not actively trying to grab aggro... Well guess who will tank Beside a smart tank would use Guard on me or taunt a little to stay ahead

[thewitchdoctor]

I do that too - I think the little boxes look so much better when they are filled up all the way to the top.

 

OCD for the win! At least ... it is for me. Hmm. I better go check if the stove is off! Just kidding, not that bad. Only about important things. LIKE MY BUFFS! (Thank the Dark Lords of the Sith that my reusable stim is reusable!)

[Gardimuer]

When I roll tank or healer I also queue as DPS. In SM a healer can easily do some good DPS (merc and sorc can at least). And, if the tank can't hold aggro against me when I'm not actively trying to grab aggro... Well guess who will tank Beside a smart tank would use Guard on me or taunt a little to stay ahead

 

I could understand DPSing in heal spec at low levels, nothing wrong with that. But if you are going to DPS in tank charge/stance then you're just making life harder for the real tank who probably wants legitimate practice. It's extremely rude to have agro battles with the tank due to being in the wrong stance/charge for your role.

[krumsey]

Beside a smart tank would use Guard on me or taunt a little to stay ahead

 

You can't guard someone who is using their guard on someone else.

 

Coming in without a dps tree and doing great dps is one thing--that's fine, idc. But if you're going to do that why not also switch to a dps stance which, you know, also boosts your dps.

[sanctified]

When I roll tank or healer I also queue as DPS. In SM a healer can easily do some good DPS (merc and sorc can at least). And, if the tank can't hold aggro against me when I'm not actively trying to grab aggro... Well guess who will tank. Beside a smart tank would use Guard on me or taunt a little to stay ahead

 

I disagree with this. Even if it's only SM, it feeds this dumb notion that people have about healers needing a guard. I also disagree with que-ing for a role you aren't spec'd for. Tanks pretending to be DPS make for some tediously slow runs.

 

Also, trying to steal someone's tank spot when LFG assigned you as a dps, is a dick move.

Edited July 11, 2014 by sanctified

[ZentheSecond]

See, I reached the opposite conclusion: I find lowbie Sin tanks really easy to use because they can hold aggro on everything in front of them by spamming overload and discharge, only to get a bit more complex later on due to that twelve second window they get to keep up their mitigation. I spend more time looking at my screen for energize procs then I do enjoying my tank.

 

Juggernauts on the other hand start out so gimped, that you're reduced to using line of sight pulls to hold aggro on trash for fifteen straight levels, only to end up being super user-friendly and easy to use by max level. I love my powertech, but saber reflect is so godly that it lets me act like a total melvin with my pulls and still look good in front of strangers.

I've never gotten a Jugg to 55, I do have a Guardian @ 35 and a Jugg @ 25. Both tanks, and yeah they do have threat issues... But surviving pulls is much easier. I mean you get a 1 or 2 second immunity to a lot of damage when you pop saber ward... Hell you HAVE Saber Ward. Sin's do not get anything till 24 that is a worthwhile defensive cooldown (Ward I do not consider one as its just something you should always keep up). And at 55 you can do some crazy things if you time your abilities right, things that make others jealous hehe. But I might be biased as my Sin is my main, and most geared and most played now I think (My sorc might have it beat but my Sorc was my first toon and I didn't do much in the way of Alt-play till I hit 50, and I did a lot of stories/dailies/FPs on my Sorc).

Edited July 11, 2014 by ZentheSecond

[sanctified]

I've never gotten a Jugg to 55, I do have a Guardian @ 35 and a Jugg @ 25. Both tanks, and yeah they do have threat issues... But surviving pulls is much easier. I mean you get a 1 or 2 second immunity to a lot of damage when you pop saber ward... Hell you HAVE Saber Ward. Sin's do not get anything till 24 that is a worthwhile defensive cooldown (Ward I do not consider one as its just something you should always keep up). And at 55 you can do some crazy things if you time your abilities right, things that make others jealous hehe. But I might be biased as my Sin is my main, and most geared and most played now I think (My sorc might have it beat but my Sorc was my first toon and I didn't do much in the way of Alt-play till I hit 50, and I did a lot of stories/dailies/FPs on my Sorc).

 

Oh, no doubt Assassins are great tanks in the hands of a player who can handle 'em. I haven't got the patience for it though, and I don't want to contribute to their unfair reputation as squishy tanks by playing sub-optimally. In my opinion Sin tanks are best suited for players looking for a rush, since one misstep and it's splaaaaaaaat! I'm too much of a cuddle bear to seek that high.

[Ryuku-sama]

I could understand DPSing in heal spec at low levels, nothing wrong with that. But if you are going to DPS in tank charge/stance then you're just making life harder for the real tank who probably wants legitimate practice. It's extremely rude to have agro battles with the tank due to being in the wrong stance/charge for your role.

 

DPSing in tanking stance doesn't mean topping the threat meter.... Jugg not using Crushing Blow won,t generate as much aggro. Replace you first CB by a Ravage and you just got down the threat meter pretty easily. Don't use Backhand and use a hgher DPS move instead and you won't steal much aggro from an equally geared/skilled tank. Vanguard is the only tank with a true threat dump. Use it and goodbye threat meter.

Beside as a tank I fear less a second tank then a Combat Sent willing to run double Zen + Inspiration in regard to stealing aggro.

 

You can't guard someone who is using their guard on someone else.

 

Coming in without a dps tree and doing great dps is one thing--that's fine, idc. But if you're going to do that why not also switch to a dps stance which, you know, also boosts your dps.

 

Did I said I was guarding someone? I don't think so..... And you second statement is false for Vanguard. It is true for Jugg since more rage means less fiiller so more DPS. But Vanguard Ion Cell procs are still an important part of their DPS. Going in another stance is losing quite a bit of DPS. More than that if no one can put up a DoT so I can HiB (Plasma Cell isn't reliable in itself).

 

I disagree with this. Even if it's only SM, it feeds this dumb notion that people have about healers needing a guard. I also disagree with que-ing for a role you aren't spec'd for. Tanks pretending to be DPS make for some tediously slow runs.

 

Also, trying to steal someone's tank spot when LFG assigned you as a dps, is a dick move.

 

Finally some points I agree.. Partly at least. On my healer.. If I ever steal aggro.. There is something wrong with the tank. Simple. Even while DPSing.. any good DPS will put out better number than me (after lvl 30 at least). The difference isn't huge enough to cause an tedious fight before lvl 50 but there is still a difference that will matter on the threat meter. So if my healer DPSing can steal aggro, the tank isn't doing his job anyway.

Tank DPS isn't that bad. At lvl 50 in entry gear the difference in DPS is about 500. Far from the 1500-2000 that you can see later. So for simple SM while lvling when it may be tedious to get 4 people in the queue for a specific fp... Tank DPS won't matter that much.

And when did I said I was actively trying to steal aggro from tank? Even in tank spec, if I'm DPS-roll, I'll threat dump. On my Jugg I'll switch to Shii-Cho. On my Vang, I'll threat dump on CD.

 

 

I don't say a lvl 55 queueing for ops or HM fp should queue for something else then his role. I'm not even saying that DPS could tank a fp (even if my tanktinel did tank a few fp cuz the tank was just that bad) or try to heal after Athiss and lvl 22. I'm just saying that a tank or a healer can pull out enough DPS to fulfill the role without problem in a SM fp.

Edited July 11, 2014 by Ryuku-sama

[slafko]

That's a recurring problem with new players. I'm not sure if its because they're afraid they're going get kicked or they're hoping they won't be noticed and they'll continue the op/fp under the radar.

 

I always encourage new players to speak up and I try to explain that most of people will not kick or insult them for being new and inexperienced but instead guide and teach them. Several of those new players showed they were noobs by insulting and raging. A few were regular, normal newbies that added me to their FL and we keep in contact.

Edited July 11, 2014 by slafko

[slafko]

DPSing in tanking stance doesn't mean topping the threat meter.... Jugg not using Crushing Blow won,t generate as much aggro. Replace you first CB by a Ravage and you just got down the threat meter pretty easily. Don't use Backhand and use a hgher DPS move instead and you won't steal much aggro from an equally geared/skilled tank. Vanguard is the only tank with a true threat dump. Use it and goodbye threat meter.

Beside as a tank I fear less a second tank then a Combat Sent willing to run double Zen + Inspiration in regard to stealing aggro.

 

In all honesty, if I see you in a tanking stance as dps role and you refuse to switch and respec - you're out. Not because I'm affraid you'll pull off me (you won't) but because I don't like inconsiderate people wasting my time by making the run slower.

[DalekTheCat]

So I was in lowbie KDY...

 

(there should be a separate thread just for The Weird People You Meet in KDY)

 

... and we had this guardian tank and three dps. The tank was wearing that covert energy armor, you know, the one that makes it look like you have nothing on at all? Anyway, he was taking a lot of damage, and kept dying, then asked us things like "what are these service medals for" which indicated he hadn't done KDY a billion times like the rest of us... But whatever, it was KDY, people die if they derp, no big deal.

 

Then we got to the boss fight and he just dropped. Like, bam. No amount of commando off-healing or kolto stations could save him. Finally I inspected him, and found he was NOT, in fact, wearing the covert energy armor. He was not wearing armor at all. I asked him about it and he said, and I quote, "ahha i know, liking tha mussles".

 

i cannot even

[slafko]

Finally I inspected him, and found he was NOT, in fact, wearing the covert energy armor. He was not wearing armor at all. I asked him about it and he said, and I quote, "ahha i know, liking tha mussles".

 

I literally can't even. #imba #1337 #unnerfable

[invertioN]

DPSing in tanking stance doesn't mean topping the threat meter.....

Are you really trying to justify dpsing in tank stance? Are you kidding me? pls ****

what the actual ****

Edited July 11, 2014 by invertioN

[AAAAzrael]

New thread needed Adixia - "The weird people I met on forums"

[Ryuku-sama]

In all honesty, if I see you in a tanking stance as dps role and you refuse to switch and respec - you're out. Not because I'm affraid you'll pull off me (you won't) but because I don't like inconsiderate people wasting my time by making the run slower.

 

I guess you didn't bother to try to understand. Before lvl 50 a tank/healer DPS is hardly lower than the one of a DPS. The real difference comes from gear. So the difference between a tank and a DPS is about 5% before lvl 30 (considering equal skill) then it slowly goes up to something around 10-15% before you can really min-max yourself at lvl 50 where the difference reah around 500-600 DPS. The difference between a healer and a DPS is even smaller and begins to matter only at lvl 55 when boss gain a 10% defense chance you have to overcome with accuracy.

The run would be as fast as with another DPS, which aren't that easy to find. In fact, considering the skill level in group finder lowbie, if the tank DPSing knows his stuff, it'll be faster.

 

Agan, I repeat. I'm not trying to excuse a lvl 50-55 queueing for an ops or a HMfp as DPS when he is tank. The difference WILL matter at this level. I'm just saying that in lower level fp (Red Reaper and under) the DPS don't need to pull out amazing number and perfect rotation (which is impossible in many spec at that level anyway) if the tank/healer know their job.

 

Beside would you kick a lvl 30 jugg wearing aim implant? Before lvl 30, getting a good implant for your level is kinda rare. at lvl 20 and 40 it's kinda easy, just buy those from PvP but between lvl 28 and 40 there is no vendor. Would you kick a lvl 21 jugg wearing a shield instead of a focus? Before lvl 22 it's impossible to buy a good focus and looting one is somewhat tied to chance. Would you kick a lvl 49 not wearing any relics but the matrix crystal because he is going neutral and can't wear any? Surely not. All these 'mistakes' reduce the DPS one can put out, and therefore slows the run.

[Memo-]

The difference between a healer and a DPS is even smaller and begins to matter only at lvl 55 when boss gain a 10% defense chance you have to overcome with accuracy.

 

Actually, I'm fairly certain the 10% defense chance is always there for elites and champions, no matter the level. Thus the adjustment was actually a nerf to the whole leveling process, since you can't have 110% accuracy.

[Ryuku-sama]

Actually, I'm fairly certain the 10% defense chance is always there for elites and champions, no matter the level. Thus the adjustment was actually a nerf to the whole leveling process, since you can't have 110% accuracy.

 

MAybe... But I use parsec for a few nice timer in all my specs and sometime just check out my parse... and I never missed anything while leveling, except if I was against something 5 lvl higher than me.

[Halinalle]

DPSing in tanking stance doesn't mean topping the threat meter....

 

You aren't doing much DPS either. Who even needs threat meter?

[Ryuku-sama]

You aren't doing much DPS either. Who even needs threat meter?

 

Could you read my two post completely before saying this. Or just say it and prove you can't read and have a logical argument with someone.

[Halinalle]

Could you read my two post completely before saying this. Or just say it and prove you can't read and have a logical argument with someone.

 

Did that already few times but I still don't understand why it's important to stance dance in PvE.