Thanks for killing PT in pvp

[Ottoattack]

The issue here is a state of mind. Pretty sure the way PTs are now with very little burst compared to other classes that the illusion is there that it is useless. My PT is pretty effective if backed with a healer as it should be. It also feels completely useless if I do not have a healer or am solo queuing. In 1.7 you didn't need a healer to just burst down people super quick. Now you can't decimate an opponent(healers) so quickly so it gives the illusion that you're just weak and useless.

 

Most of the time I can still solo 1v1/take nodes. 2v1s are pretty much impossible where in 1.7 2v1s with PT was common. IMO a PT isnt the type of class that should be able to 2v1.

 

Did the PT get nerfed due the changes? Yes. Are PTs completely useless? No. Would you rather have a PT over a smasher/vengeance mara? Ideally, no, not if your tanks are doing their job and your healers aren't completely worthless(and if the mara/PT are the same ability level). Can you run them in a rated and be effective? Absolutely.

 

While I do agree that the loss of burst hurt the class, but the class was mainly hurt because of the reduction of sustained damage. CGC used to account for approximately 25-30% damage, especially in PvE. Cutting it in half along with other nerfs limited the damage potential by approximately 20% and burst by approximately 50%. Result? "Are PTs completely useless? No. Would you rather have a PT over a smasher/vengeance mara? Ideally, no." I would also include all other classes except sorc as dps.

 

"Can you run them in a rated and be effective? Absolutely." Can other classes preform much better? Absolutely. To put it simply, PTs have limited burst damage, have avg. sustained damage and weak survivablilty. The do not excel in any area and all utilities they provide can be performed by a sin, and most teams have at least 1 sin.

[LaVall]

Bioware felt that since the class tore it up in PVP for so long, they'd troll by reducing their burst, making them impossible to sap cap with shoulder cannon, and forcing them to be the new node guards.

[varoncodebot]

Exploiting class ballance? Oh, you mean like before 2.0 when half the server (every server) played a PT because it was easymode and overpowered to the point everyone could play it pretty much to max potential? Lol...

 

Where are all those awesome players named OPFOTMPT and such now? Oh yes they attempted to play a sniper and got litterally facerolled, because sniper actually requires some player skill to perform well.

 

Exploiting class ballance... comes from PT's... Just lol.

 

Do you even play a PT?

[OldSpiceSwag]

i would sincerely wish to hear from some of the pro pvpers caeliux keeps referring to about their opinions, both on how they feel about their pts in rateds and just how much caeliux knows about what hes talking about. pretty much the sum total of his arguments have been

"LOL BURST DMG WAS NOT ALL A PT WAS"

or

"LOL L2P ISSUE U R BAD"

or

"LOL MY PRO FRIENDS SAID [...]"

[TheronFett]

I think you are doing bad with it cause you can't play with it, I would reroll to something more easier.

 

Pro Tip: There's nothing easier to play than PT Pyro. If you can't put up numbers with this spec, quit. The problem is not with the class or so-called "nerfs" at all. It's that there are so many idiots and FOTM re-rollers playing it. Good riddance. Good PTs are still good. The bads will move on to something else.

 

Like derpsmash.

[Anysao]

You're welcome. Over a year of being OP, and my op underpowered. How do ya like me now?

[ceelaniri]

i would sincerely wish to hear from some of the pro pvpers caeliux keeps referring to about their opinions, both on how they feel about their pts in rateds and just how much caeliux knows about what hes talking about. pretty much the sum total of his arguments have been

"LOL BURST DMG WAS NOT ALL A PT WAS"

or

"LOL L2P ISSUE U R BAD"

or

"LOL MY PRO FRIENDS SAID [...]"

 

Well thought out and good post.

 

+1

[Morpurgo]

Pro Tip: There's nothing easier to play than PT Pyro. If you can't put up numbers with this spec, quit. The problem is not with the class or so-called "nerfs" at all. It's that there are so many idiots and FOTM re-rollers playing it. Good riddance. Good PTs are still good. The bads will move on to something else.

 

Like derpsmash.

 

And somehow this kind of bs talk is always coming from someone who doesnt have 55 Pyro or AV. How about you go spec your Shieldtech to Pyro and see for yourself how those big numbers are coming.

[Caeliux]

Bads will be bads, and good players will continue to shine with a PT.

 

Either you are a FOTM reroller or a player that takes pride in your class you worked hard for.

 

I assume those that are doing bad with PT never was that good in the first place.

[Morpurgo]

Bads will be bads, and good players will continue to shine with a PT.

 

Either you are a FOTM reroller or a player that takes pride in your class you worked hard for.

 

I assume those that are doing bad with PT never was that good in the first place.

 

People who need to insult others to make themselves feel better are really pathetic. Usually it shows the existance of deep inferiority complex.

[Caeliux]

People who need to insult others to make themselves feel better are really pathetic. Usually it shows the existance of deep inferiority complex.

 

Here is your sig,

 

Cake is a lie, there is only pie. Through pie, I gain calories.

Through calories, I gain bodyfat. Through bodyfat, I gain weight.

Through weight, my social life is broken.

The Thighmaster shall free me.

 

What irony in your post.

 

Thanks for the laugh!

[foxmob]

Bioware felt that since the class tore it up in PVP for so long, they'd troll by reducing their burst, making them impossible to sap cap with shoulder cannon, and forcing them to be the new node guards.

I noticed that too about the cannon. although I'm thankful for it as a VG, I really dislike the mechanic that allows you to use it while stunned. that smacks of the same logic defying mechanic of bubble-stun from 1.4-7. I don't think I'm going out on a limb here to insist that stunned should actually mean...you know...stunned.

 

Note to devs: I am in NO WAY ASKING FOR MORE STUNS just saying...shoulder cannon is logic fail.

[Morpurgo]

Here is your sig,

 

Cake is a lie, there is only pie. Through pie, I gain calories.

Through calories, I gain bodyfat. Through bodyfat, I gain weight.

Through weight, my social life is broken.

The Thighmaster shall free me.

 

What irony in your post.

 

Thanks for the laugh!

 

Why do people always think that this sig is about myself...

[Caeliux]

Why do people always think that this sig is about myself...

 

ROFL!

[foxmob]

Bad gear itemization is bad. I have been buying just the mods and enhancements for now keeping the set bonus from my WH gear. I'll probably switch out the armorings last or not ever depending on whether or not they fix bolster. If I can use PvE armorings with higher main stats/armor ratings and still get some bolstered exp I might just do that.

aren't you nerfing your expertise by keeping the wh armorings? I specifically remember a dev saying not to mix pve and pvp mods in the same shell because bolster will treat the entire shell as pvp and not give you the itemized bolster. wh armorings had their expertise removed, so except for the relics, they should be considered the same as pve in this regard.

 

this is all via my own deductive reasoning, so I'm only partly criticizing your approach and also asking for clarification from the community.

[foxmob]

Bads will be bads, and good players will continue to shine with a PT..

 

patently false. I spoke directly or indirectly with the best pyros/assaults on my server. to a player, they either shelved their dps or are trying to make it as a tank. want the list? (I don't think this kind of name-dropping is prohibited) no particular order:

 

• powertaco/powerburrito <uncensored> -- "I still love the toon, and I'll gear up the dps after the tank set, but I'll probably not take it into rated anymore."
  
• banksy <lethal dose 50> -- "the spec is useless without burst. I shelved mine."
  
• bloodcrazed <lethal dose 50> -- "dps is now irrelevant" (second hand). he's trying to tank with the toon atm.
  
• civ <lethal dose 50> -- shelved it. playing combat sent.
  

 

(yeah yeah, I know more ld50s than uncensored)

 

the only PT/VG I haven't heard from (that I would put on the top tier list) is fisherprice/utopi. I'm not sure what he's doing.

 

Now you can mock and ridicule and server bash and w/e all you want. these are perennially the best VG/PT dps on the server. this isn't me on my casual toon. this isn't an army of FotM re-rollers (who, btw, went smash in 1.4 anyway).

 

I'm sure ppl will make of this patch what they will. but you're deaf, dumb, and blind if you think this change only applies to FotM re-rolling chumps and failbots clickers who can't press more than 5 buttons.

 

all the best VGs on the server. all of them. nuff said.

Edited May 2, 2013 by foxmob

[KamikazeKommando]

all the best VGs on the server. all of them. nuff said.

 

Orly?

 

Being a day one trooper since release and avid PVP'er, I've seen a lot of ups and downs with the AC. Yes, it's a down day right now but there's also a bunch of hot air being blown around the forums. It's easy to QQ and it's hard to adapt to change. As an example, I remember how the sky was falling when AS abilities got range nerfed <10M, wasn't that bad in the end now was it? Just required adaptation.

 

Sure, our burst got nerfed, I think that's generally uncontested now. That being said, it's still very possible for VGs to crank out the damage, top charts, and be nearly as deadly as pre 2.0, but it's harder and you need to think outside the box and admit that certain scenarios aren't going to happen due to the lack of burst currently.

 

I've PVP'ed with you, as well as everyone else you mentioned quite a bit. You should know your generalization isn't entirely true. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see some buffs so we're not the red headed step child with all the hype going on, but the sky isn't falling either.

[Macroeconomics]

you do realise that assassin that pulls is tank spec ergo no burst dps?

not to mention they are harder to play. they only burst tree is deception, which is good for openings (kinda operative with light stick), but doesn't really dig it in substained dps over longer fights.

 

An assassin dps will field respec to tank for Huttball so he can pull. He'll also respec to tank for the defensive side of Voidstar. And a good Assassin in that Voidstar match will put up numbers equal to the PT Pyro, while playing half that match in Darkness, even while the PT is Pyro on both sides of the match.

 

Harder to play? Who cares. For the top players, the only thing that matters is the height of the ceiling. Not how hard it is to get there. Top players will get there. Good player will after a month or two of practice.

 

Bads will be bads, and good players will continue to shine with a PT. Either you are a FOTM reroller or a player that takes pride in your class you worked hard for. I assume those that are doing bad with PT never was that good in the first place.

 

In all three of the above sentences, you are.....absolutely CORRECT. Which is why PT/VG will continue to get nerfed in 2.1.

 

Good players continue to do well with PT/VG. And the bad PT players have vanished. Some good ones too. But now the only ones left playing PT are the good ones. So the class meta average will rise. And they will get nerfed again in 2.1. You can count on this. This is what happened to operative dps in 1.1/1.2. This is what happened to Anni/Watchman. This is what happened to Merc dps in 1.2/post-1.2. This is what is still happening to Merc Pyro even though the entire player base knows it is the worst subclass for pvp in the entire game. Classes that get nerfed have their meta averages increase due to the effects of player migration. Which means more nerfs are coming. In contrast classes that get buffed have an increase in player usage and decreases in meta averages. So they get more buffs. Can you say, Sniper?

 

So yes, Caeliuz, you are absolutely correct. And you are continuing to dig your own grave while being so. Ironic, eh?

[UncleOst]

LuLz at this thread.

 

With heals, any class/spec is "viable". This fact also clouds perception on behalf of the "elite" within our pvp society.

[DarthRaika]

Morp, read Cae's post. Think about it. Realize what you just said and how you just played into his hands.

[DarthRaika]

PT is still viable and I still do well on my vguard and it can still rack up HUGE chart dmg but the class really is not as important as most of my other dps classes now. More burst was given to my other classes while burst was taken away from my vguard.

 

Vguard's dmg mechanices still make it a chart topper by a fair margin in many matches. Of course some match set ups make my sent or sniper do more dmg but many matches still favor my vguard for dmg.

 

The lower burst really makes me play my vguard less though. As a pugger I play against many premades and before 2.0 with stacking nades I could drop cross healed healers as soon as they got lazy (and remember this is as a pug) but now I can do this faster on my sent,jug,SNIPER, and even my arsenal merc (lolz). While it is still viable, the class just isn't as effective as some other classes are now. Sure if you have a healer or a premade then unless you are beyond horrible you will still just destroy with vguard but if you are truly good you would do even more burst on some other classes.

[UncleOst]

Morp, read Cae's post. Think about it. Realize what you just said and how you just played into his hands.

 

Huh. You talkin to me fool?

 

 

 

 

UncleOst

03.18.2013 , 10:51 PM | #16

EDIT REPORT POST QUOTE

Bah...this is all rubbish.

 

Saying it's "easy to play", is all relative...no?

 

I hear people ramble on about the ease of a class and I shake my head. As far as pvp is concerned, there will always be new challenges. Example would be acquiring high protection numbers/objectives, as well as dps. I can't count the many times I've seen powertechs with very low protection values at the end of warzone. Another consideration is trying to survive as a squishy class, constantly dealing with focus fire. Learning how to use terrain and coordinate abilities with teammates are essential as well.

 

If powertechs have been nerfed, I'm unaffected. The less crybabies and idiots playing one of my favorite classes, the better. Either way, I know I will still be kicking arses and sending them all to hell.

Undying Hadyn

DYNASTY OF EVIL

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

'nuff said.

[Skylarc]

I just wanted to express my gratitude for absolutely killing PTs ability to compete in high end pvp, especially when it was my main, thanks. I still enjoy playing PT, but I've always been a competitive player that wants to be able to compete in the top tiers. Which with our current dps and survivability is just plain impossible.

 

Btw I have played several MMOs with a focus on pvp, and don't come saying that "PTs just a 3 button class that's easy to play", because no class is *********** hard to play in Swtor. I simply play PT because I wanted to focus on a BH since the beginning.

 

Hopefully this will get fixed soon, until then see you in game

 

Sorry you played an OP class since release and finally got your skill called into question when PT's no longer are the end all healer melter.

 

QQ mor.

[Kormad]

The Advanced Prototype tank hybrid is amazing. Pyro is still good. I've seen Advanced Prototype put up good damage, and Shield Tech is pretty good to boot. Sure, the burst was nerfed, but PT is still very good in the hands of a skilled player. My main is a AP tank hybrid, and I sometimes do Pyro for PvP...honestly, I see most of the same results.

 

PT is just fine. It just became more skill based.

[Dasgruberg]

They need to make Shoulder cannon useful in pyro.

Not 500 damage per missile and 4 useless missiles.