Eric Musco please enlight me

[Tachenko_Yuri]

Why? What benefit is there to that?

 

Cuts off the story, people don't like to have their own grinded story cut in half. True, one could just search it up in wikipedia and in quite a few other places, but it just wouldn't be the same. One would get his act together, get subbed, CONTRIBUTE to the game he/she's playing and finish the story arc.

 

Unfortunately what the lads did wrong was to give too much for trial, enough to actually having the full game bearable for those who didn't want to fork out a dime.

[Lostpenguins]

I agree that nothing is being taken away but what I see as an unfortunate situation is that even though nothing existing is taken away, adding more and more features that are not free for sub users does mean that the sub covers a smaller percentage of the game features when you take the total of the game. I call it inflation or devaluation.

 

It is like in an economy where you don't get a pay raise for a number of years. You still get the same amount of money but in the total effect the buying power goes down. As the game develops and people pay subs there is an expectation that the sub also buys you new features that come out since you continually invest into the game.

That's not a good analogy. The price of any individual items didn't go up, there's just more options. You're trying to say the price of hamburgers went up 20% by your salary didn't. That's inflation, but that's not what's happening. Instead, hamburgers stayed the same price, but now there are tacos for sale as well. That's a choice. You look at the glass half-empty because all you see is the option you didn't get to take. I see it as all the extra options I can choose from in the future. Also, I do not expect all features to be available to me, especially in the realm of cosmetics. Name change, Legacy Name change, gender, race, physical features, faction change... none of that is anything I expect as a feature I should get as a subscriber. I'm not sure what other MMO's lead you to believe that you should expect these features, but I played WoW and Rift and never saw these options as something I was just given.

I did read that there are discounts for subs so I will be watching how much that will be but please, the fact that nothing is taken away from the existing sub features is not a completely correct argument as I described above.

Depends how you are looking at it. If you are looking strictly at qty, then before 2.1 and afterwards you still have all 9 races readily available for you. If you look at it like a percentage, then you'd have a point in saying it's no longer 100%, it's now 90% of available races. That is the only way you can say that something was taken away.

The 600 cartel coins that you mention I already get now and can spend them on packs or other features already. This means that I have more things to choose from and again can afford a smaller portion of the features.

As I said: glass half-empty perspective. All you see is what you don't get, instead of seeing that you're still getting the same amount, just that there's more variety. How is this a bad thing? It seems to me like you'd be happier in life if there was only one type of car and it came in only one color because all you see is that there are so many different cars and colors that you will never get to own. That's rather silly.

My issue is therefore simply not that things are being taken away but that the comparative value of the sub compared to the whole of the game wil become smaller again. That is what concerns me. Look at the game and take what's available to f2p and what can only be bought with cartel coins and only then what's left is what a sub gets you. The more you add to f2p and the cartel shop, the less the value of my sub compared to the total game. I hope that this point is clear to you. That's a customer's point of view and so far you guys are looking at the nominal value but I don't think that's meeting customer's expectations from where I'm sitting.

Sorry, but they are going to continue to add cosmetic fluff to the CM every single patch. That is a truth you are going to have to accept. It's going to continue this way and the # of items that are CM items is going to continually increase and that gap you are so concerned about it going to widen. There's no denying that. If you cannot deal with it, then you might as well unsub now because that is a fact that should surprise no one.

But I will wait and see how good the features are, what's new and exciting about it and how much of a discount there will be for subs, because that is where you increase the value of the sub again. Let's hope you get this one right

I'm not sure how they will ever get it "right" in your eyes unless you could literally buy one of everything each month and as something new comes out your monthly amount of CC's should increase so that you don't have to make choices on what you buy and instead just get more and more.

 

I will state my side again: I'm glad the Cathar race is being introduced on the CM. I don't have to pay any extra cash for a race I never plan to play and even if I did I wouldn't have to pay any cash as it's free from my complimentary coins I get as a subscriber.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Lostpenguins

[Lord_Karsk]

They charge people for UI elements and option to hide head slot, what did you guys expect ?

All of you need to understand everything in this game now focus on the cartel shop to make money.

Sadly the world doesnt run on love but greed, remember the EA investors want $$ so they can buy more

nice cars for their rich kids. So you want to change your hair as a subscriber PAY real money !!!

[Anzel]

APB is free to play and the customization in that game is ALSO free, and VERY popular.

 

Amen. I don't mind paying extra for, "extra stuff". But basic customization like hair and armor color? I mean REALLY.

[DaRoamer]

You need to STOP considering our monthly stipend an allowance when it was given as a gift, Eric. You don't give someone a gift and then dangle something in front of them for them to spend that gift on. Some things (not all but some) should be added directly to the game and subscribers should NOT be charged a single coin.

 

Barbershop Alterations should be one of those things.

Cathar is a new option and I understand being charged for that, but to charge us to change to customization options that already exist in the game is really low. Take that to your marketing team and discuss it with them, please.

 

 

No, the CCs you got if you were subscriber before f2p were a gift, what you get for you sub is a monthly allowance of coins to be used at your discretion on the market. Aside from that almost all market content is tradeable and therefore can be purchased for credits on the GTN.

[Pietrastor]

Aside from that almost all market content is tradeable and therefore can be purchased for credits on the GTN.

The question is, does this apply to 2.1 as well? Something tells me it doesn't

[DaRoamer]

Amen. I don't mind paying extra for, "extra stuff". But basic customization like hair and armor color? I mean REALLY.

 

Armour colours will be craftable.

 

The question is, does this apply to 2.1 as well? Something tells me it doesn't

 

For Cathar I think there is a 99.9% certainty. For the customization I'm not sure, if it's a token system then probably but if it's a unique UI then it might be like buying unlocks on Legacy perks. I'm thinking prices on customization will be quite low however.

Edited April 30, 2013 by DaRoamer

[Anzel]

They charge people for UI elements and option to hide head slot, what did you guys expect ?

 

I expect that as someone who subscribes to this game that trivial features such as changing my eye color shouldn't cost me additional real life money. In SWG for instance Image Design was a skill you could learn. And as subscriber it didn't cost you anything extra.

[DarkDisturbed]

But we have not seen the patch notes yet... only the marketing tease for some long demanded content.

 

So your statement is premature.

Andryah, I know that you're like *the* Biodrone, but seriously? It's either a complete and utter PR failure, or we're not getting anything major that doesn't cost CC.

 

Either way, improvement is needed.

[Blackavaar]

No, the CCs you got if you were subscriber before f2p were a gift, what you get for you sub is a monthly allowance of coins to be used at your discretion on the market. Aside from that almost all market content is tradeable and therefore can be purchased for credits on the GTN.

 

The stipend is a gift, as both a previous and current sub. They said it. They never called it an allowance. Your making assumptions that are based on other posters opinions, not what was actually said by the devs.

 

And I won't be able to buy Change My Hairstyle on the GTN, will I? I rest my case.

 

[Lostpenguins]

They charge people for UI elements and option to hide head slot, what did you guys expect ?

All of you need to understand everything in this game now focus on the cartel shop to make money.

Sadly the world doesnt run on love but greed, remember the EA investors want $$ so they can buy more

nice cars for their rich kids. So you want to change your hair as a subscriber PAY real money !!!

Or use coins as a subscriber that you get more free... hence you're not paying real money.

[DaRoamer]

I expect that as someone who subscribes to this game that trivial features such as changing my eye color shouldn't cost me additional real life money. In SWG for instance Image Design was a skill you could learn. And as subscriber it didn't cost you anything extra.

 

You remember when SWG got rid of all classes and replaced them with 9 new ones? That was fun. You sure you wanna use SWG as an example of how you want BW to treat this game?

[Twin]

Hey everyone,

 

There is clearly some frustration around this but I believe there are also some misconceptions about Cathar and our intent for subscribers so I wanted to hopefully clarify some of that for you. One thing we have stressed before and one thing we will continue to do with the Cartel Market is to use it for customization and convenience options. Another goal we have stressed for the Cartel Market is to not use it as a method for pay to win.

 

Game Update 2.1 does introduce entirely new customization options, like the Cathar, which will require Cartel Coins in order to gain access to. Although I understand your frustration around this, we always take into consideration when pricing Cartel Market items that all subscribers receive a monthly grant of Cartel Coins. For example, if you are currently a subscriber who has a security key active on your account, you will be able to outright purchase Cathar with just one month’s worth of Cartel Coins. We also try to give you as much notice as possible around new features like this so that if it is your desire to purchase these unlocks, you will be able to do so solely through saving your monthly Cartel Coin grant.

 

What I think is a misconception is that this is setting a precedence that we are going to take things away from subscribers. I cannot stress enough that this is simply not something we ever intend to do. The features and functions that you pay for right now as a subscriber will remain in place. We would not, for example, suddenly require you to pay for an unlock to run more Flashpoints. On the flipside of this though, the intent of the Cartel Market is to continually add new and fun cosmetic and convenience features and in some circumstances, subscribers will have to pay Cartel Coins to access these as well. I just want to specifically call out that we will keep these cosmetic as we would certainly not want to place any of our players at a disadvantage for not spending money, AKA not implementing pay-to-win.

 

One thing I do want to call out for Game Update 2.1, which you will see more details on in the future (from both us and from fan sites) is that subscribers will see a substantial discount on some of the features being implemented in Game Update 2.1, such as Appearance Designer. Not only was your monthly grant kept in mind when pricing the items themselves, but overall things are far cheaper for you as a subscriber than a free-to-play or preferred status player.

 

I know that just the principle that subscribers are being charged for Cathar is causing some of your frustrations, but I hope that I could at least explain a bit about why and to help alleviate any concerns that we would ever take something away from subscribers.

 

-eric

 

So answer me this then; The monthly grant of CM coins a subscriber gets was based upon the available items at launch of the CM, i assume. 500 coins gets us just about nothing from the CM, and you keep spewing out desirable CM packs and items.

 

Why hasn't this monthly grant increased as time goes by and more features were added to the CM? I understand that CM is needed for profit from free-players - but aren't subscribers allready paying enough? Or is the idea here to exploit free-players and subscribers alike, and squeeze out every dollar you can regardless of account status?

 

EDIT: Imo the monthly grant should increase, at least a little, each time you release a new pack on the CM.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Twin

[DaRoamer]

The stipend is a gift, as both a previous and current sub. They said it. They never called it an allowance. Your making assumptions that are based on other posters opinions, not what was actually said by the devs.

 

And I won't be able to buy Change My Hairstyle on the GTN, will I? I rest my case.

 

 

You rest what case? You know exactly how the appearance change is going to work?

 

What was that about making assumptions?

[Andryah]

Andryah, I know that you're like *the* Biodrone, but seriously? It's either a complete and utter PR failure, or we're not getting anything major that doesn't cost CC.

 

Either way, improvement is needed.

 

Cool story.... please show me your advance copy of the patch notes for 2.1.

 

What?!... don't have any patch notes? <shock!> Just making stuff up? oh..... OK.

 

Me, I'll wait for patch notes before passing judgement on what is/is-not in the patch thank you.

[Blackavaar]

Or is the idea here to exploit free-players and subscribers alike, and squeeze out every dollar you can regardless of account status?

 

Ding ding ding ding!! We have a winner! That is exactly the plan.

 

Milk that cow! MILK IT!!!

 

[Pietrastor]

 

And I won't be able to buy Change My Hairstyle on the GTN, will I? I rest my case.:

We'll see, but I don't expect "Change Eye Color Appearance Kiosk Authorization" unlocks/consumables being implemented and allowed to be sold on GTN. Cathar unlock on GTN is even more likely IMO than that. Not to mention that some appearance optiosn don't even apply to all races (Sith jewelry, Lekku/Zabrak tatoos etc)

 

You remember when SWG got rid of all classes and replaced them with 9 new ones? That was fun. You sure you wanna use SWG as an example of how you want BW to treat this game?

Just because some things were done wrong doesnt mean everything was wrong with the game. I never played SWG, but it only seems wise to me to consider BOTH what SWG did wrong AND right and learn from it and possibly use

Edited April 30, 2013 by Pietrastor

[Pistols]

Andryah, I know that you're like *the* Biodrone.

 

Lol

 

[Anzel]

Armour colours will be craftable.

 

**Some will be craftable. Some will be purchased via the market directly. Some will be available in (STUPID) cartel packs. Again... this is a trivial feature. It should not require a wild goose chase and actual money to obtain.

[Lostpenguins]

Ding ding ding ding!! We have a winner! That is exactly the plan.

 

Milk that cow! MILK IT!!!

 

Sorry, but that is totally obvious. I see it in LoL, Dota 2, etc. There are some people who will shell out loads of cash for things that do nothing but give you new and different pixels. That's okay so long as it doesn't impact game mechanics. That is exactly what the CM was: a way for people with loads of cash and/or little impulse control to throw money at BW because they like the new silver skiff without ruining game balance.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Lostpenguins

[Blackavaar]

**Some will be craftable. Some will be purchased via the market directly. Some will be available in (STUPID) cartel packs. Again... this is a trivial feature. It should not require a wild goose chase and actual money to obtain.

 

It's a desirable feature and as such will be used to get money from those who desire it. That's all there is to it. Not saying that it's right, but it's the way things are.

 

[Pietrastor]

Armour colours will be craftable.

Unbless there's a "Requires Color Modules Authorization" to even use those colors you crafted Even for subs lol

 

For Cathar I think there is a 99.9% certainty. For the customization I'm not sure, if it's a token system then probably but if it's a unique UI then it might be like buying unlocks on Legacy perks. I'm thinking prices on customization will be quite low however.

If they stay true to what they said, then full re-customization shouldn't cost more than 600 coins, to let subs change everything. that would probably mean about 50 coins per feature, maybe some difference depending on what is being changed (for example, body type 120 coins, eye color 20 coins). Wild guessing though. Edited April 30, 2013 by Pietrastor

[Sir-Coffee]

Cool story.... please show me your advance copy of the patch notes for 2.1.

 

What?!... don't have any patch notes? <shock!> Just making stuff up? oh..... OK.

 

Me, I'll wait for patch notes before passing judgement on what is/is-not in the patch thank you.

 

I don't usually post on the forums(When I do, it is usually troll posts about how Juggernauts are "OP"), however, whenever I am reading topics that are usually anti-Bioware, or against Bioware's view, decision making, or anything else that they screw up, I always see you defend Bioware nobody how bad the situation is.

 

Have you ever made more than(Or at the very least) 14 posts that were not *Pro-Bioware*?

 

At this point, they could increase the Sub to $30.00, and I feel as if you would support them.

[Twin]

Ding ding ding ding!! We have a winner! That is exactly the plan.

 

Milk that cow! MILK IT!!!

 

 

Yeah, sadly this seems to be the case. But i thouhgt i'd give Eric a chance to reply and explain, if BW for some reason doesn't agree.

[Phorenzyk]

I don't usually post on the forums(When I do, it is usually troll posts about how Juggernauts are "OP"), however, whenever I am reading topics that are usually anti-Bioware, or against Bioware's view, decision making, or anything else that they screw up, I always see you defend Bioware nobody how bad the situation is.

 

Have you ever made more than(Or at the very least) 14 posts that were not *Pro-Bioware*?

 

At this point, they could increase the Sub to $30.00, and I feel as if you would support them.

 

That account is well-known as a BW shill. Nothing to see here, move along.