Eric Musco please enlight me

[MajikMyst]

^ This.

 

Also the OP shouldn't be calling out an individual Staff Member like that. Its rude.

 

Agreed.. Rude and disrespectful.. We should be better than that..

[Tachenko_Yuri]

all this hassle is about the cathar... yet again?

 

Can anyone tell me what MAJOR overhaul gives being a cathar? maybe some one-shot killer move like

the emperor

does but without the 5 - sec buildup? or does it give + 348126496 power or crit.rating. or both + endurance, orsomething like that?

 

it costs 600 coins, big deal, spend your stipend on it or live without.

 

It's a bunch of cat-like humanoids and that's all there is to it. for the love of the force, get a grip people

[branmakmuffin]

I love you lemmings. You all say same thing. You guys most get a lot bigger monthly allotment then the rest of us to afford everything that its supposedly suppose to cover. Just keep blindly defending them.

So what exactly do you need to spend your CCs on so that you can adventure in the game?

[JediJonesJr]

Just keep blindly defending them.

 

 

this is the one reason game is in the state it is, the masses are divided, but that's ok when swtor loses the rebel rousers and only has fanboy's left i see the end of this game.

 

 

i don't care about the new race, my concern is the non cosmetic issues but seems we see more outrage over bullcrap kittys......

[Warrgames]

Agreed.. Rude and disrespectful.. We should be better than that..

 

Rude and disrespectful would be lumping everyone together for what one person said. Eric is the one said it not any other staffer. Everyone wants to try and spin what the point of this thread around. Simple point of this thread:

 

As stated on various page us Sub get a, b, c, d, e and f features.

In 2.1 we lose c feature but according to Eric post its OK because will change those page so c feature isn't list. So does this mean that 2.2 we are going to lose e features and its OK as long as they update their pages.

[Darth_Moonshadow]

Right, and I will make those choices. The point I'm making is why not make farther free for subscribers? Would that not present a better business model to attract f2p to sub if subs got cathar free and could use their 500cc for whatevs?

 

Not really, seeing as how most people are content being a Freebie or Preferred because they don't actually want to pay for, well, anything.

 

This reminds of a story I once heard about a game developer. They made this game, see, and they used Kickstarter to do it. So they had the fans pay for the development. They reached their goal and released the game. Now these devs were like "You know, our fans really love us. Without their generosity, we wouldn't have this game and our dreams realized. So because of them, everyone can buy this game for whatever they can pay." That meant that you would pay a penny and unlock the full game, completely. Seems like a really nice thing of a game developer, right? And they were going to use the profits from the games sales to make more content. Seemed like a sweet deal for both parties, right?

 

Well, unfortunately, the game was later shut down and the developers declared bankruptcy a month after. Do you know what happened?

 

It turns out, that despite the very very low minimum of payment required to own the game, a whopping 79% of the downloads for it were pirated. That means that people who had already paid once before felt so entitled to the game that they couldn't even part with a single cent to help keep the development afloat.

 

What's the moral of the story, you ask? That maybe it's not such an evil act that game developers require you to pay a little extra sometimes. Because even if you're already a sub, not everyone is and there is a high chance they never want to be. It doesn't matter how many perks a sub gets, because the majority doesn't want to be a good guy and pitch in.

 

Yeah, charging subs a fee on top of their already paid subscription seems to be pretty damn greedy. But maybe, there's a good reason for it. It wouldn't hurt to part with an extra six dollars. Put the monetary pride aside and just be a good gamer.

 

Remember when gamers and devs used to be friends?

[Andryah]

Right, and I will make those choices. The point I'm making is why not make farther free for subscribers? Would that not present a better business model to attract f2p to sub if subs got cathar free and could use their 500cc for whatevs?

 

I'm fine with the choice they made. It makes business sense to me in a freemium based business model. Would I like the world to be free? sure... who wouldn't. But there is a difference between want and practicality. My personal litmus test is do I have to spend incremental real $$ to access content. I don't, so I am fine with it.

 

This is not a subscription only MMO anymore. People need to let it go and move forward. Some cosmetic content for subs will be via CCM in the future. They actualy alluded to this before F2P even went live, and it is a common practice in freemium MMOs. [Note my use of the words "cosmetic" and "content" as I personally feel this is both. And anyone who did not figure out on day one that the monthly coin rewards were in part given to insure that such content would never cost a sub incremental real $$ was asleep at the wheel.]

 

The OP conflated his agnst with a needless thread about non-cosmetic doomsday content predictions. IMO, he is trying to bait Eric into a response of some sort. I don't believe Eric will respond because the OP is not being sincere (I'm sure the OP knows he is distorting and is just being provocative).

Edited April 30, 2013 by Andryah

[branmakmuffin]

Rude and disrespectful would be lumping everyone together for what one person said. Eric is the one said it not any other staffer. Everyone wants to try and spin what the point of this thread around. Simple point of this thread:

 

As stated on various page us Sub get a, b, c, d, e and f features.

In 2.1 we lose c feature but according to Eric post its OK because will change those page so c feature isn't list. So does this mean that 2.2 we are going to lose e features and its OK as long as they update their pages.

That's part of the licensing agreement we all "signed."

[Tachenko_Yuri]

What's the moral of the story, you ask? That maybe it's not such an evil act that game developers require you to pay a little extra sometimes. Because even if you're already a sub, not everyone is and there is a high chance they never want to be. It doesn't matter how many perks a sub gets, because the majority doesn't want to be a good guy and pitch in.

 

Yeah, charging subs a fee on top of their already paid subscription seems to be pretty damn greedy. But maybe, there's a good reason for it. It wouldn't hurt to part with an extra six dollars. Put the monetary pride aside and just be a good gamer.

 

Remember when gamers and devs used to be friends?

 

hello Darth_Moonshadow

 

I would like to ask you a thing

 

So you're saying that the cash isn't rolling in not because f2p are being cheapskates, but because paying people are not paying enough, and should pay more than what they currently are?

 

If the answer is "no" then please, do correct me

 

If the answer is "yes" , I'm gonna have to ask to you if you're being serious.

[Alavastre]

Don't you think that is the point here? The point is that yes, you have to pay in GW2 but not above and beyond subscription fees. In fact, GW2 is constantly updating content for free. People are not paying for it. Now EA/BW on the other hand is charging a subscription fee and then charging above and beyond for all new content. I would hate to see the game fail because they are nickle and diming subscribers. That is merely my calming debated thought.

 

Things change.

 

Also, Guild Wars started off with updating content, but that turned out to be something they just didn't get done before it was released. The updates are meh. SWTOR is doing a better job with updates than GW2. Even GW2 stated they don't even have plans on an expansion.

 

If I was BW I would probably do the same thing (except for all the F2P restrictions). You are building a new game, you must first build your financial foundations. Once that is in place, you can focus more and more on the game.

 

I take a long view of the situation. I don't think BW plans on just nickel and diming people forever. I think they got a great deal of new stuff they are working on to expand the story. As of right now, not knowing the prices for all the stuff in 2.1, it's way to early for me to get angry or call out BW/EA for nickel and diming me.

[Darth_Moonshadow]

Rude and disrespectful would be lumping everyone together for what one person said. Eric is the one said it not any other staffer. Everyone wants to try and spin what the point of this thread around. Simple point of this thread:

 

As stated on various page us Sub get a, b, c, d, e and f features.

In 2.1 we lose c feature but according to Eric post its OK because will change those page so c feature isn't list. So does this mean that 2.2 we are going to lose e features and its OK as long as they update their pages.

 

To be fair, they never said Cathar would be free to subs. We just assumed, because of Section X. So, I think part of the misunderstanding is on us.

 

And no, you forum trolls, that's not brown nosing, that's actually what you did.

[TUXs]

To be fair, they never said Cathar would be free to subs. We just assumed, because of Section X. So, I think part of the misunderstanding is on us.

 

And no, you forum trolls, that's not brown nosing, that's actually what you did.

 

Cathar were announced well before F2P was, so...yeah...people expected them for freaking free.

[Alavastre]

Rude and disrespectful would be lumping everyone together for what one person said. Eric is the one said it not any other staffer. Everyone wants to try and spin what the point of this thread around. Simple point of this thread:

 

As stated on various page us Sub get a, b, c, d, e and f features.

In 2.1 we lose c feature but according to Eric post its OK because will change those page so c feature isn't list. So does this mean that 2.2 we are going to lose e features and its OK as long as they update their pages.

 

Other than a small letter c on an internet page, what did you lose? Oh yes, a few lines of text as well. Was there any functionality that was taken away from you?

 

The answer is no.

 

You're debating about general classifications not actual content. They added a feature they want you to pay for, it happened to fall under a certain classification and you're angry they're going to take that classification away. Yet nothing in the game changed for you, other than there are more options.

[branmakmuffin]

You're debating about general classifications not actual content. They added a feature they want you to pay for, it happened to fall under a certain classification and you're angry they're going to take that classification away. Yet nothing in the game changed for you, other than there are more options.

Thread winner!

[Darth_Moonshadow]

hello Darth_Moonshadow

 

I would like to ask you a thing

 

So you're saying that the cash isn't rolling in not because f2p are being cheapskates, but because paying people are not paying enough, and should pay more than what they currently are?

 

If the answer is "no" then please, do correct me

 

If the answer is "yes" , I'm gonna have to ask to you if you're being serious.

 

Actually, it's a bit of both. Look, I would love to have everything in this game for just $15 a month. I would love it even more if I got it all for free. But I know you can't get something for nothing, and I pay my sub. But I also know that not everyone agrees with the sub fee and would rather stay free and enjoy the game. Seeing as how most of the playerbase is free and Preferred, that means that we subs are going to have to foot the bill for those guys sometimes. It sucks Bantha balls, but it's a sacrifice someone has to pay if we want to keep the fun going.

 

So yeah, I'm going to pay for my Cathar. I'm going to buy Cartel packs. I'm going to pay whatever I can because I like this game. Is someone going to call me a "fanboi" for supporting this game with additional fees? I see that coming a mile away. I don't really give a schtako if they do. I'm paying. It's not the popular decision, but it's the realistic one. I'd rather pay nineteen bucks every now and then and keep playing this game, than watch as everything I enjoy get shut down due to insufficient funds because I was too proud to just tip a fiver in Bioware's direction..

 

Cathar were announced well before F2P was, so...yeah...people expected them for freaking free.

 

Actually, no, an additional race was announced and we participated in the vote. The Cathar wasn't locked in until the first month after Free, but that's just semantics. Doesn't really matter at this point.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Darth_Moonshadow

[TUXs]

Actually, no, an additional race was announced and we participated in the vote. The Cathar wasn't locked in until the first month after Free, but that's just semantics. Doesn't really matter at this point.

 

[Tachenko_Yuri]

Actually, it's a bit of both. Look, I would love to have everything in this game for just $15 a month. I would love it even more if I got it all for free. But I know you can't get something for nothing, and I pay my sub. But I also know that not everyone agrees with the sub fee and would rather stay free and enjoy the game. Seeing as how most of the playerbase is free and Preferred, that means that we subs are going to have to foot the bill for those guys sometimes. It sucks Bantha balls, but it's a sacrifice someone has to pay if we want to keep the fun going.

 

So yeah, I'm going to pay for my Cathar. I'm going to buy Cartel packs. I'm going to pay whatever I can because I like this game. Is someone going to call me a "fanboi" for supporting this game with additional fees? I see that coming a mile away. I don't really give a schtako if they do. I'm paying. It's not the popular decision, but it's the realistic one. I'd rather pay nineteen bucks every now and then and keep playing this game, than watch as everything I enjoy get shut down due to insufficient funds because I was too proud to just tip a fiver in Bioware's direction..

 

 

 

Actually, no, an additional race was announced and we participated in the vote. The Cathar wasn't locked in until the first month after Free, but that's just semantics. Doesn't really matter at this point.

 

I've also bought coins beyond sub. and will do it again if any fancy sure-shot item comes up. Subber's stipend goes in gamble bags but for a suit of armor which if for sale then yes, extra coins can, and will enter my account.

 

It is not our duty to spend extra money only because people can't let go of a few beers or sigarettes.

 

It is not your fault, it is not my fault, it is not a subber's fault cash isn't rolling in.

 

The lads put a price up, we are paying for it. We're being milked and allowing so. While there's a whole bunch of other cows out there that are not being regarded.

 

Rising costs for paying customers would be like killing the goose that laid golden eggs.

 

And for last line, like I say every now and then.. If people haven't got $15 a month spare, online gaming shouldn't be their priority altogether....

[Warrgames]

Andryah you most be my bff to know me so well that you know my motives.

 

My opinion on 2.1 features:

Dyes: happy with the way this being done. Some on CM, some craft, some on SK vendor and some on CE vendor.

Kiosk: Hate it. It should be like Dyes. Credit and CM mixture.

Cather: Doesn't bother me.

 

I will be buying dyes and Cather. Kiosk they can shove up their...

 

Lemmings and haters are worse part of this game.

 

The issue is with what Eric said. It sounds like to me and other people that as long as they change what is list its OK to take stuff away from sub. They could change the wording to allow a CM only FP.

 

Had Eric said: To answer your question, Its like you want to level a Sith Pureblood Jedi. You have to unlock first by leveling Pureblood to 50, using CM or Credits. Cather you will have to unlock through CM or Credits (buying off GTN. Not sure about this taking a guess about it since you can buy 90% of CM items off GTN.). We feel this is better way to introduce new species because Empire hates aliens and we end up limiting what they could be on Empire. By offering them as a pure unlock players won't lean more towards the Republic to be Cather.

 

Most of suggested reply is BS and don't have facts to back but sounds 100 times better then what Eric said.

[Andryah]

Andryah you most be my bff to know me so well that you know my motives.

 

Not at all. It's just that you are being blatantly transparent about it with your approach.

 

My opinion on 2.1 features:

....

Kiosk: Hate it. It should be like Dyes. Credit and CM mixture.

.......

 

I will be buying dyes and Cather. Kiosk they can shove up their...

 

 

Proves my point exactly. Thank you for reaffirming after trying to deny.

 

Had Eric said: To answer your question, Its like you want to level a Sith Pureblood Jedi. You have to unlock first by leveling Pureblood to 50, using CM or Credits. Cather you will have to unlock through CM or Credits (buying off GTN. Not sure about this taking a guess about it since you can buy 90% of CM items off GTN.). We feel this is better way to introduce new species because Empire hates aliens and we end up limiting what they could be on Empire. By offering them as a pure unlock players won't lean more towards the Republic to be Cather.

 

Pretending that if Eric had just said it differently you would be suddenly OK.. not buying it. It's incongruant with the deliberately distored original post of yours.. and it is incongruant with every follow-up comment you have made in the thread.

 

It's OK to be angry. It's OK to express it in a polite and constructive manner. But calling out the Community Manager and then setting forth a string of obviously distorted statements about the future of content releases is just weaksauce. Just own your anger and express it as a mature adult IMO.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Andryah

[Andryah]

Cathar were announced well before F2P was, so...yeah...people expected them for freaking free.

 

Cathar were "announced" (marketing tease is a more accurate term IMO) as "coming in the future" well before F2P. However, method of release was never stated, just assumed on the part of players. Many players will assume what is most favorable to them, and then complain when personal expectations are missed.

 

Separately....

Am I reading your wrong TUXs, or have you gotten noticably more disgruntled since 2.0 went live? We may not always agree, but generally I find you to be objective in your statements for the most part. Lately, you just seem kind of frustrated and upset. /shrug.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Andryah

[chuixupu]

Cathar were "announced" (marketing tease is a more accurate term IMO) as "coming in the future" well before F2P. However, method of release was never stated, just assumed on the part of players. Many players will assume what is most favorable to them, and then complain when personal expectations are missed.

 

Actually, I do remember very clearly they were originally announced as "The first species to be acquired strictly through Legacy". Obviously this changed once it went F2P.

[dscount]

My 2 creds..

 

Don't care about Cathar - I won't pay for that feature. (Even if it means less classes later)

Cosmetics - Okay cool, but not needed. Again not buying unless I "Must have" one color.

 

On the whole "Shafting Sub's" conversation: I feel that BW is walking a fine line and starting to cross over that line and it's our duty to step up and complain. YES Content was removed. TFB was bumped to level 55 and unless you purchased the ExPac then you no longer to can play TFB. Word smith it all you want BW folks, but the bottom line is that is a FACT that content was removed from SUB's not buying the ExPac. Maybe I missed something, but to me that was a pretty bold slap in the face to SUB's that didn't get the ExPac. I suspect in the future more and more is going to be "Changed" in what SUB's get until it's all CM based purchases. (Why be a SUB if that continues?)

 

Flip side - Creating a new CLASS is an expensive adventure and they have already stated that fact last year during a live broadcast. They also stated that economic outcome of the first one would most likely determine if we have future ones. Personally - I don't need to play a Cat person and certainly not going to waste my monthly coins for purchase.

Edited April 30, 2013 by dscount

[Kilora]

To use ONE example of them "taking something away" as evidence that they will take more things away -- give me a break.

 

They aren't even taking something away. Lack of foresight =\= conspiracy to rob us blind. If Cathar were only available upon reaching legacy lvl 50 - they'd STILL have to change the wording of that section of the sub benefits. Why? Because just having a sub wouldn't get you Cathar.

 

But seriously -- this is the FIRST time they've introduced a new species. I think it is safe to say that all future species will be unlocked in much the same way. Why is this an issue? It's more fluff. You'd be more upset if the species was a rare unlock from Cartel Packs, because you want it and you want it now.

 

Introducing a species into the CM in NO WAY alludes to future content being sub + pay even more to unlock content. Expansions aside -- why the hell would a species unlock make you think they will push FPs and OPs into "In order to access our Newest Operation, X, you must purchase the unlock for 1000cc. To have a new FP, you must purchase it for 600cc."

 

NOTHING is pointing towards this. People are grasping at straws to backup their irrational fears and hatred for the game and company.

[dscount]

To use ONE example of them "taking something away" as evidence that they will take more things away -- give me a break.

 

NOTHING is pointing towards this. People are grasping at straws to backup their irrational fears and hatred for the game and company.

 

I disagree with you on this one Kilora. I think folks are going a little extreme on this, but I do see a pattern and it's hard to ignore. They want to make more money and that's a no brainer. Going back and editing what we get on the website is a little "silly" in my mind.

 

Meanwhile. I love the game and feel it can be better than it is today. Having people voice concern over things is how things get changed. This post is a legit request and it does provide the appearance of "Slight of the Hand" all for the sake of making more money and providing less services to the customers with monthly fee's to BW.

 

Again - I thought as a SUB the whole Cathar race was going to be part of my SUB as well the Ex-Pac would have been. Both are going to cost me instead and as a montly SUB that does bother me to a certain point. Did I purchase the Ex-Pac (YES) and I love the new OP and reworked FP's as well.

[Warrgames]

Andryah please stop pretending you know me or my motives. Unlike you I've opinions about the game some good and some bad. Where all you do is defend it. You want to express your opinion about the game. Fine You want to debate my opinion. Fine Claiming that you know anything about me. Just don't.