Subscription: Advertisement vs Truth

[SithVeritas]

This game will do race change.. WOW does not charge ingame currency for that.. Have a nice day..

 

Then they should charge for race change exclusively.

 

Again, if you're going be condescending and want to tell me how wrong I am do it right.

[Shoogli]

Really?? WOW is a game.. It is doing it.. So is GW2.. Is that a game?? They are doing it too.. Guess you are just wrong..

 

Sorry but GW2 isn't doing it : they give you the choice. You can get the gems to pay for whatever in their cash shop by spending in game currency or IRL money. And despite the disinfo spewed a couple months ago by one poster here they had that idea (converting in game currency to cash shop currency without the need to pay anything ever) and made it public through their blog/website/interviews way before BW even began talking about the CM or F2P.

 

Last time I used the barbershop in WoW it was in game currency as well, has that changed ?

 

2.1 SWTOR barbershop is slated to be CM only.

 

Guess *you* are just wrong.

[beefyandbeef]

And I doubt the guy who quoted it truly understands that what Orwell was talking about was something much greater than a pastime that has virtually no consequences in anyone's life.

 

But then again, there are people out there who think EA is the worst company in America, because they make bad video games or because their CS is bad, so it kind of makes sense...

 

I completely understand the books purpose and meaning, I was simply stated it seemed familiar to the situation now. There is obviously a deeper meaning to the book, it's an allegory, I simply thought the a part in the story seemed relevant to the topic.

[TUXs]

/popcorn

[Kilora]

Sorry but GW2 isn't doing it : they give you the choice. You can get the gems to pay for whatever in their cash shop by spending in game currency or IRL money. And despite the disinfo spewed a couple months ago by one poster here they had that idea (converting in game currency to cash shop currency without the need to pay anything ever) and made it public through their blog/website/interviews way before BW even began talking about the CM or F2P.

 

Last time I used the barbershop in WoW it was in game currency as well, has that changed ?

 

2.1 SWTOR barbershop is slated to be CM only.

 

Guess *you* are just wrong.

 

 

1.) Barbershop in WoW doesn't allow race changes or gender changes. That is RL$ only.

 

2.) We don't know yet -- but I'd HIGHLY assume that Cathar will be an unlock that you can sell on the GTN -- just like all of the other species unlocks. There you go -- in game currency.

[jason_ralph]

/popcorn

 

/pretzels&beer

[Kilora]

Wow, we agree. I'm charged ~$15 a month for my subscription, so it's not free of charge and neither is the CC stipend. If the CCs are free, then every other thing included with a subscription is also free and the monthly fee is, what, a processing fee to allow us access to all the game features we get for free?

 

So, by your logic, the Security App ~100 CC isn't free either.

 

But, you've said it is free before. Aren't you required to have a sub to get those?

 

This is YOU sharing an opinion that conflics with the logic you are using to support another opinion.

[DarthTHC]

No, I clearly stated that BW refers to the coins as complimentary which means the coins are "given free as a courtesy or favor". Please see that the definition means "given free". Or, if you want, look at the fact that complimentary also means "free of charge"... in that the coins aren't being charged. They are at 100% discount.

 

When you say the coins aren't free, you're saying they're not complimentary. So, clearly BW is lying and using false advertisement. Is that what you're saying?

 

The problem with us thinking that the coins are given free as a courtesy is that is not now EA's thinking.

 

When they design features that require cartel coins, they factor in the knowledge that subscribers get some every month.

 

Our stipend has become an allowance which EA expects us to spend. It's not a courtesy. It's not a gift.

Edited April 30, 2013 by DarthTHC

[Lostpenguins]

So, by your logic, the Security App ~100 CC isn't free either.

 

But, you've said it is free before. Aren't you required to have a sub to get those?

 

This is YOU sharing an opinion that conflics with the logic you are using to support another opinion.

Yeah, Kilora, I'm about to give up on that guy. He trips over his own statements because they contradict each other. But my point can go out to all the people who are complaining: If the coins are complimentary for subscribers, they are, by definition free of charge. Thus, when you unlock the Cathar race, it's "free of charge". If you don't think it's free of charge, then that means BW's use of the word complimentary is wrong and they are legally accountable for doing so.

[Shoogli]

1.) Barbershop in WoW doesn't allow race changes or gender changes. That is RL$ only.

 

Everything else : eye colour, beards, moustache whatever, is in game currency whereas BW 2.1 barbershop is CC only.

 

2.) We don't know yet -- but I'd HIGHLY assume that Cathar will be an unlock that you can sell on the GTN -- just like all of the other species unlocks. There you go -- in game currency.

 

Cathars yes, again BW 2.1 barbershop is CC only.

 

So to the poster I answered above : No these others game (WOW and GW2) don't charge for coins only but also allow for in game currencies for everything (or most in the case of WOW) that the BW 2.1 barbershop will...

 

So *there* you go... CC !

[Lostpenguins]

The problem with us thinking that the coins are given free as a courtesy is that is not now EA's thinking.

 

When they design features that require cartel coins, they factor in the knowledge that subscribers get some every month.

 

Our stipend has become an allowance which EA expects us to spend. It's not a courtesy. It's not a gift.

Um, it is. Says so right there on the website. You cannot prove beyond your conspiracy theories your point of view. I can prove to you with direct sources from their website and websites given the definition of the terms I use. You have no proof. Just theories and conjectures.

 

And, to be honest, I believe you're wrong on the last statement. The point of most loyalty reward programs is to get you to give more money when you wouldn't have done so otherwise. It's like saying, "Buy 2, get 1 free." You were probably only going to buy 1, but now that you can get 1 free if you just buy another one, you do it. So basically the company upsold. That third bag is free. They are legally allowed to advertise as such. Just like BW is legally allowed to call the coins complimentary, because they are free of charge. If you think I'm wrong, then you're basically saying you know more about "the law" then they do, which I find laughable.

[Kilora]

Everything else : eye colour, beards, moustache whatever, is in game currency whereas BW 2.1 barbershop is CC only.

 

Cathars yes, again BW 2.1 barbershop is CC only.

 

So to the poster I answered above : No these others game (WOW and GW2) don't charge for coins only but also allow for in game currencies for everything (or most in the case of WOW) that the BW 2.1 barbershop will...

 

So *there* you go... CC !

 

I'm aware -- I was pointing out the things that are 100% acceptable to limit to CCs, based on comparisons in other games.

 

Considering how LITTLE information we have -- how do we know there won't be a "customization" unlock, that allows you to change every slider, and is tradeable? Therefore, sellable on the GTN?

 

We just don't know enough to scream yet. But I agree -- basics like Hair/Eyes and maybe even Body Type -- those should be availalbe for Credits OR Cartel Coins if you are a subscriber.

[Shoogli]

But I agree -- basics like Hair/Eyes and maybe even Body Type -- those should be availalbe for Credits OR Cartel Coins if you are a subscriber.

 

Thank you.

 

But anyway, the point wasn't so much to say that the barbershop was going to cost CC only as per we know from the interview.

 

The point of my answer was to reply to a disinfo poster spewing wrong informations about other games to make a point, especially about GW2 which on top of the fact is B2P and has no sub *also* allows you to never pay real cash to use their cash shop by allowing you to convert in game currency instead.

 

This was what was getting me annoyed earlier : not only they won't admit it's wrong to have CC only features for subbers, on top of that they will compare to other games that do things better and say they don't : come on...

[iamthehoyden]

Um, it is. Says so right there on the website. You cannot prove beyond your conspiracy theories your point of view. I can prove to you with direct sources from their website and websites given the definition of the terms I use. You have no proof. Just theories and conjectures.

 

And, to be honest, I believe you're wrong on the last statement. The point of most loyalty reward programs is to get you to give more money when you wouldn't have done so otherwise. It's like saying, "Buy 2, get 1 free." You were probably only going to buy 1, but now that you can get 1 free if you just buy another one, you do it. So basically the company upsold. That third bag is free. They are legally allowed to advertise as such. Just like BW is legally allowed to call the coins complimentary, because they are free of charge. If you think I'm wrong, then you're basically saying you know more about "the law" then they do, which I find laughable.

It's marketing spin. You are welcome to buy into it, but it's spin. But go ahead and continue to repeat yourself over and over again. I hear that adds to the truthiness quotient.

[Cancrizans]

You get a monthly allotment of Cartel Coins.. Forgetting about that?? How exactly are you paying extra for anything??

 

Just going to quote your shortest post to save space but...

 

You in fact seem to be one of these people who likes to practice their own version of common sense and rationality where business is concerned. The fact that "by law" they don't have to specify that your cartel coins are to be used to purchase regular content updates is very obviously far from the standard expected by normal, sane human beings.

 

They are very obviously suggesting that these coins are a reward for subscribing, not a resource to be used in conjunction with your full paid subscription that must be put towards content updates if you want your full paid subscription to act like just about every other full paid subscription in the gaming world.

 

If you want to mince words and skew reality in order to make business look saintly as is the norm in our society, you are just another among millions who have discarded accurate thinking to make yourself comfortable with questionable practices that have become the norm in order to reduce your internal conflict with the realities of society. But that doesn't mean anyone else is required to accept this foaming crock of nonsense as truth or a rational appraisal of the situation.

 

I personally am willing to accept the Cartel Coin charge for Cathar if they give us one free race change per character to Cathar along with the purchase. That is the only way it will honestly be fair to paying subscribers, as we did not at all "pay for every race" as you suggest...we paid to unlock them for certain classes. All of them were available with the initial purchase for some classes.

 

The idea that we should have to pay for cosmetic changes as subscribers is totally absurd. If they are going to try and lump in simple things like hair style and color changes with full racial and gender changes to blur the line between what is typically paid for with in game currency and what is typically paid for with real $, I find that completely unacceptable.

 

The bottom line is that there are a lot of people who are not entirely pleased with the way Bioware is using the Cartel Market relative to paid subscriptions. I think that if they want to keep many of the people currently subscribing, they ought to treat us like intelligent human beings and not dummies that can be fed any line of nonsense and are expected to buy it. Simple respect for the customer goes a long way.

 

I pay the monthly sub so that I do not have to be nickle and dimed to death, and I expect my experience to reflect the norm for subscribers in MMO games. If Bioware plans to rewrite or modify the rules, I want to be told explicitly and not have the question dodged with coy language and doubletalk.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Cancrizans

[Lostpenguins]

It's marketing spin. You are welcome to buy into it, but it's spin. But go ahead and continue to repeat yourself over and over again. I hear that adds to the truthiness quotient.

Ahh... "spin". Feel free to throw your conspiracy theorist terms out as if it gives you any more weight. Unfortunately for you, I have the legal system and dictionary definitions to support my claims.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Lostpenguins

[SithVeritas]

I'm aware -- I was pointing out the things that are 100% acceptable to limit to CCs, based on comparisons in other games.

 

Considering how LITTLE information we have -- how do we know there won't be a "customization" unlock, that allows you to change every slider, and is tradeable? Therefore, sellable on the GTN?

 

We just don't know enough to scream yet. But I agree -- basics like Hair/Eyes and maybe even Body Type -- those should be availalbe for Credits OR Cartel Coins if you are a subscriber.

 

In a interview with Dulfy they have stated that yes, it is going to be slider based, but it's going to charge CC per slider, regardless of sub status.

 

Cathar are 600 CC for everyone, it isn't available to pick and level up to 50 to unlock for all classes, no way to unlock it in legacy like HK-51, no discount, nothing. I don't mind this as much as the customization thing though.

Edited April 30, 2013 by SithVeritas

[uaintjak]

Who cares what EAware's definition of "free" or "complimentary" is? They've already admitted they can and will change that at will.

 

Exxon Mobil can post on their website that they're doing great things for the planet. Do you believe them because they say so?

[DarthTHC]

Um, it is. Says so right there on the website. You cannot prove beyond your conspiracy theories your point of view. I can prove to you with direct sources from their website and websites given the definition of the terms I use. You have no proof. Just theories and conjectures.

 

And, to be honest, I believe you're wrong on the last statement. The point of most loyalty reward programs is to get you to give more money when you wouldn't have done so otherwise. It's like saying, "Buy 2, get 1 free." You were probably only going to buy 1, but now that you can get 1 free if you just buy another one, you do it. So basically the company upsold. That third bag is free. They are legally allowed to advertise as such. Just like BW is legally allowed to call the coins complimentary, because they are free of charge. If you think I'm wrong, then you're basically saying you know more about "the law" then they do, which I find laughable.

 

No, actually I can prove it. Musco posted (go search dev tracker) that they do, in fact, consider the subscriber stipend when producing cartel coin driven content.

[LordArtemis]

I still think that providing some other small way subscribers...only subscribers mind you....could earn an extra 100 coins each month in game would be one way to lessen the pain from this decision.

 

I think crafting is the best way to go about this. But they could also allow purchase of coins with in game EC, say 1000 EC for one coin.

[SithVeritas]

No, actually I can prove it. Musco posted (go search dev tracker) that they do, in fact, consider the subscriber stipend when producing cartel coin driven content.

 

True. First time I read it it already left a bad taste in my mouth.

 

Not saying I saw this coming, but it certainly made me feel like my subscription was worth less.

Edited April 30, 2013 by SithVeritas

[Lostpenguins]

No, actually I can prove it. Musco posted (go search dev tracker) that they do, in fact, consider the subscriber stipend when producing cartel coin driven content.

Consider it how though? That's left for interpretation, one which you like to fill in as truth when it's really your opinion. Besides, that doesn't mean that it isn't complimentary coins. I just don't get it. They say it's complimentary, which means free of charge. How are you arguing against that?

Who cares what EAware's definition of "free" or "complimentary" is? They've already admitted they can and will change that at will.

 

Exxon Mobil can post on their website that they're doing great things for the planet. Do you believe them because they say so?

Um... if a company is directly lying, then that's illegal. That's what I'm saying, do you think BW is lying when they say the coins are complimentary? If they're not lying, then those coins are free of charge, because that's what complimentary means.

[Syas]

True. First time I read it it already left a bad taste in my mouth.

 

Not saying I saw this coming, but it certainly made me feel like my subscription was worth less.

 

Now I am sure I will get tossed in the "fanboi" pile for this, but it isn't bad for them to consider the Subscriber free grant when figuring out pricing. There are questions they can be asking that benefit us as subscribers, for instance:

 

"We made this cool thing, we think 1500CC is the right value for it, but do we really think it is worth 3 months of Subscriber Allowance?"

 

"Our subscribers get 500CC every month, what neat thing can we put on the CC market to give them something appetizing to spend it on?"

[SithVeritas]

Now I am sure I will get tossed in the "fanboi" pile for this, but it isn't bad for them to consider the Subscriber free grant when figuring out pricing. There are questions they can be asking that benefit us as subscribers, for instance:

 

"We made this cool thing, we think 1500CC is the right value for it, but do we really think it is worth 3 months of Subscriber Allowance?"

 

"Our subscribers get 500CC every month, what neat thing can we put on the CC market to give them something appetizing to spend it on?"

 

I'm looking at the cartel market right now and it seems they consider everything they put up there worth 3 months of allowance, with the exception of cartel packs, which go up to 360 a piece. I don't think that consideration in our best interest. It obviously isn't.

 

But that's now what I'm talking about right now, the Cartel Market is a necessary evil that's why I don't voice my concern with the pricing in there, what we're talking about now is the fact that they're putting 'cartel market in your sub' now, while they claimed this wouldn't happen, see my sig.

 

It's bait and switch.

It lowers subscription value.

It isn't right.

[Syas]

I'm looking at the cartel market right now and it seems they consider everything they put up there worth 3 months of allowance, with the exception of cartel packs, which go up to 360 a piece. I don't think that consideration in our best interest. It obviously isn't.

 

But that's now what I'm talking about right now, the Cartel Market is a necessary evil that's why I don't voice my concern with the pricing in there, what we're talking about now is the fact that they're putting 'cartel market in your sub' now, while they claimed this wouldn't happen, see my sig.

 

It's bait and switch.

It lowers subscription value.

It isn't right.

I guess I just see it differently than you. For me they are subscription bonuses. City of Heroes used to have Subscriber Bonuses, but they were time based on your account, so, for example, you couldn't "save up" to get something better, you got whatever they gave you.

 

To me, this is the reverse, I get an allowance (600/mo with my Security Key and Sub Status) and whether I buy a race, legacy unlocks or some Cartel Packs or instead save it for something more expensive like an Adaptive Armor set, I am the one who decided what rewards I am getting, and honestly, I kind of dig that.

 

So long as things don't trend toward 1800+ CC in general, I am happy.