Subscription: Advertisement vs Truth

[MisterMuse]

So from what we've heard of the new 2.1 update it seems as both the new race, Cathar and the new customization options are being put into the cartel market. As such I'd like to draw attention to a page that Bioware themselves used as commercial for subscribing.

 

http://www.swtor.com/free/features

 

We've been constantly promised that subscribers would have full access to character customization. You guys at Bioware going to update that soon and stop making false advertisement? While I'm sure that the F2P and Cartel Market pushed this game forward there seemed to be a trend to make some actual content in this game a P2W hybrid where either you have to have enough in-game money to buy packs off the GTN or enough real-money to buy packs of the CM.

Edited April 27, 2013 by MisterMuse

[Elly_Dawn]

with any luck these options will still be free to Subscribers, with the Taylor/hairdresser/whatever it's called costing ingame credits like every other MMO out there... really charging Cartel Coins to change my haircolor is dumb...i know it seems they wanna ape WoW a lot but maybe they should look at Star Trek for ideas, i mean even George Lucas told Eugene Rodenbery Jr. that Star Trek was one of his influences for Star Wars, so no shame looking there for inspiration...

[MajikMyst]

Just a reminder.. We as subscibers have always had to purchase additional races that we didn't have.. What is the issue here?? You either had to level one to 50, or buy it.. This one is just to purchase on the CM.. So what?? 600CC big deal..

 

So seriously.. Truth is truth here.. There is nothing wrong with them putting the new Cathar race in the Cartel Market..

 

If we didn't have to buy all the others ones, you might have a complaint.. But they are not doing anything that they didn't already do before..

Edited April 27, 2013 by MajikMyst

[Alec_Fortescue]

forget Cathar, it's more about havin to pay extra $ so we can enjoy features of 2.1 content patch.

[MajikMyst]

forget Cathar, it's more about havin to pay extra $ so we can enjoy features of 2.1 content patch.

 

You get a monthly allotment of Cartel Coins.. Forgetting about that?? How exactly are you paying extra for anything??

[zzoorrzz]

You get a monthly allotment of Cartel Coins.. Forgetting about that?? How exactly are you paying extra for anything??

 

They can't expect u to spend those on regular content updates without explicitly stating it somewhere, so all subcribers would know their monthly CCs are given to them to purchase regular content updates.

[Sultrus]

with any luck these options will still be free to Subscribers, with the Taylor/hairdresser/whatever it's called costing ingame credits like every other MMO out there... really charging Cartel Coins to change my haircolor is dumb...i know it seems they wanna ape WoW a lot but maybe they should look at Star Trek for ideas, i mean even George Lucas told Eugene Rodenbery Jr. that Star Trek was one of his influences for Star Wars, so no shame looking there for inspiration...

 

You do know, Star Trek: Online is one the WORST MMO's available. I am a massive Trekkie and I have always loved Star Trek but I will not support the blatent RAPE that Cryptic have done to the franchise in order to gather funds and do as little work as possible. Here is my breakdown, as an STO player of 3 years.

 

STO

 

- Blatent P2W Ships Outclassing Free/Previously Paid Vessels on the Zen Store. (I.E. The Recluse Carrier replacing the Atrox) to encourage people to pay for lockbox keys.

- No significant development of PVP since launch or rebalance (DPS is king and so is the Jem Hadar Bug Ship (Also a lockbox P2W ship)

- Complete bias towards tactical ships such as the Defiant. Science and Engineering HEAVILY outclassed by Tactical and their insane DPS boost. Science only useful for Sub-Nuc (only debuff ability in the game) and thats it. Engineers defunct.

- Upcoming Romulan Faction was a blantent lie where you play non-imperial Romulan who are a bunch of colonists.

- Ignoring the Star Trek fanbase by refusing to buff ships such as the Galaxy Class, an iconic ship which has been ruined by the this game. The upcoming D'Deridex has also been designed to be purposely weak because its a cruiser.

- Refusing to fix bugs since launch because "fixing bugs does not generate profit and greed is eternal"

- HUGE dilthium costs for little gain in Starbases, basically shafting small fleets in favour of larger ones.

- Dilthium cap of 8k PER DAY - Meaning that you can get nothing useful.

- Reputation system and a total of 4 STF's (Which have been split into ground and space, used to be just one and have a story but have now turned into a heartless grind) whereas ToR has many more Flashpoints.

- Grind, Grind, Grind...

 

True THAT for Advertisement vs Truth... You think Bioware is bad!? You have no idea mate.

Edited April 27, 2013 by Sultrus

[MajikMyst]

They can't expect u to spend those on regular content updates without explicitly stating it somewhere, so all subcribers would know their monthly CCs are given to them to purchase regular content updates.

 

They don't have to tell you anything.. The money you get from your entitlement is yours to spend on whatever you want.. What ever you spend it on, those are FREE coins.. You did not pay for them.. They came as part of your subscription.. So whatever you did buy with them, you got for free.. So why are you complaining about having to pay for the Cathar unlock or anything else..

 

There is nothing wrong with what they are doing.. They are not false advertising and they are treating subscribers poorly..

 

As for the OP?? We as subscribers were never promised full access to customizations.. What is being talked about is a barber shop type function.. That does a lot more than just cut your hair.. Typically speaking.. Thinks like this are in a cash shop or purchased from a website..

 

He should change his thread title.. His truth V. Truth..

Edited April 27, 2013 by MajikMyst

[MisterMuse]

Just a reminder.. We as subscibers have always had to purchase additional races that we didn't have.. What is the issue here?? You either had to level one to 50, or buy it.. This one is just to purchase on the CM.. So what?? 600CC big deal..

 

So seriously.. Truth is truth here.. There is nothing wrong with them putting the new Cathar race in the Cartel Market..

 

If we didn't have to buy all the others ones, you might have a complaint.. But they are not doing anything that they didn't already do before..

 

We never had to purchase races, playing a race from 1-50 unlocked that race for your entire legacy. There was always an option to actually play for it. With the Cather there is no such option.

[MajikMyst]

We never had to purchase races, playing a race from 1-50 unlocked that race for your entire legacy. There was always an option to actually play for it. With the Cather there is no such option.

 

I fail to see the issue there.. You could once by bank tabs with credits.. Now you can buy them with CC.. What is the difference??

 

There are a ton of things that you could once buy with credits that you can now buy with CC.. So they want to put the Cathar on the CM.. So what?? What difference does it make?? It isn't false advertisement...

 

You need to explain why a subscriber is entitled to a species for free, when we never were able to get one for free before.. You either had to buy the unlock or level to 50.. In either case it wasn't free..

Edited April 27, 2013 by MajikMyst

[Tmanarl]

We never had to purchase races, playing a race from 1-50 unlocked that race for your entire legacy. There was always an option to actually play for it. With the Cather there is no such option.

 

We've also never gotten a completely new species either, so this is new territory. However I do see your point. There truly would be no way to unlock this species without paying for it. Personally I'll be utilizing my 600 CC grant for May to unlock the Cathar.

[MajikMyst]

We've also never gotten a completely new species either, so this is new territory. However I do see your point. There truly would be no way to unlock this species without paying for it. Personally I'll be utilizing my 600 CC grant for May to unlock the Cathar.

 

But see.. The grant is also what makes it free for subscribers.. So his argument still fails on that front..

[Lasica]

Does the new species have any in game advantage over other races? No? Then it's a cosmetic difference at best. There is nothing wrong with selling cosmetic changes in the cartel store.

 

Now I won't buy it... but if it was a playable wookie race... well I might throw down some cash for that.

[MajikMyst]

Does the new species have any in game advantage over other races? No? Then it's a cosmetic difference at best. There is nothing wrong with selling cosmetic changes in the cartel store.

 

Now I won't buy it... but if it was a playable wookie race... well I might throw down some cash for that.

 

It is just cosmetic.. This game doesn't have racial abilities in the sense that actually effect game play or stats.. I am curious as to what the Cathar racial will be.. Prolly just some other gizmo skill or cheer..

[MisterMuse]

I fail to see the issue there.. You could once by bank tabs with credits.. Now you can buy them with CC.. What is the difference??

 

There are a ton of things that you could once buy with credits that you can now buy with CC.. So they want to put the Cathar on the CM.. So what?? What difference does it make?? It isn't false advertisement...

 

You need to explain why a subscriber is entitled to a species for free, when we never were able to get one for free before.. You either had to buy the unlock or level to 50.. In either case it wasn't free..

 

Ofc its false advertisement, both their F2P vs Sub page and their video review stated that subscribers have full access to all features. That is obviously no longer the case.

[MajikMyst]

Ofc its false advertisement, both their F2P vs Sub page and their video review stated that subscribers have full access to all features. That is obviously no longer the case.

 

So you are claiming that a subscriber should get anything in the Cartel Market for free?? Seriously??

 

The Cartel Market is technically not a feature of the game.. If someone bought the game just to shop at the market, then they need to seek help for their shopping disorder..

 

You argument is pretty much baseless because of the definitions you are using.. Not to mention, a basic lack of accounting of the Cartel Coins that every subscriber gets every month.. Anything in the Cartel Market is not a feature.. The Cartel Market is not a feature.. We get those coins for free so anything we buy with them is also free..

 

Why are you not complaining about cargo hold tabs?? Or additional slots on the GTN?? Or all the packs and mounts?? Or all the gear and outfits?? Why are you not saying we should get those free??

 

Do you see the problem with your argument?? We get a monthly grant of coins.. That we can use however we want.. I am currently sitting on over 3k in coins at the moment.. My wife has over 5k.. I am not interested in the Cathar, but , my wife is.. She will most likely by the unlock the second she can.. Which will be free to her..

 

So I ask you?? How is that not what Bioware advertised.. My wife will get the Cathar for free.. I can get it for free as well.. By using our grant money.. Which you constantly ignore..

Edited April 27, 2013 by MajikMyst

[Jeweledleah]

I fail to see the issue there.. You could once by bank tabs with credits.. Now you can buy them with CC.. What is the difference??

 

There are a ton of things that you could once buy with credits that you can now buy with CC.. So they want to put the Cathar on the CM.. So what?? What difference does it make?? It isn't false advertisement...

 

You need to explain why a subscriber is entitled to a species for free, when we never were able to get one for free before.. You either had to buy the unlock or level to 50.. In either case it wasn't free..

 

the difference is that you can STIll do all these things with in game credits. they are not CC exclusive.

[Trollokdamus]

Does the new species have any in game advantage over other races? No? Then it's a cosmetic difference at best. There is nothing wrong with selling cosmetic changes in the cartel store.

 

Now I won't buy it... but if it was a playable wookie race... well I might throw down some cash for that.

There is indeed nothing wrong with selling cosmetic stuff for real money. Within reasonable bounds. But when you cross the line by making the cartel store the sole source of worthwhile cosmetic stuff, then it becomes wrong.

Edited April 27, 2013 by Trollokdamus

[MisterMuse]

So you are claiming that a subscriber should get anything in the Cartel Market for free?? Seriously??

 

The Cartel Market is technically not a feature of the game.. If someone bought the game just to shop at the market, then they need to seek help for their shopping disorder..

 

You argument is pretty much baseless because of the definitions you are using.. Anything in the Cartel Market is not a feature.. The Cartel Market is not a feature..

 

Why are you not complaining about cargo hold tabs?? Or additional slots on the GTN?? Or all the packs and mounts?? Or all the gear and outfits?? Why are you not saying we should get those free??

 

Do you see the problem with your argument?? We get a monthly grant of coins.. That we can use however we want.. I am currently sitting on over 3k in coins at the moment.. My wife has over 5k.. I am not interested in the Cathar, but , my wife is.. She will most likely by the unlock the second she can.. Which will be free to her..

 

So I ask you?? How is that not what Bioware advertised.. My wife will get the Cathar for free.. I can get it for free as well.. By using our grant money.. Which you constantly ignore..

 

Look here, read what I posted and the link. "Full access to all Character Creation options.". Thats the promise given when you read up on what you get as a subscriber. I don't care much about getting the packs for free, I don't care about the rest of the stuff there. Bioware/EA had gone out with a specific promise on what they give their subscribers, and now they break it, pure and simple. Change it and its fine but the very principle show that the company is willing to change their system. How long before the commendation cap can be increased with Cartel Coins, how long before you can get a fourth crew skill with a bit off CC. The Cathar race itself isn't important (to me) but the principle of the matter is.

 

And the monthly grant is just something we disagree on, those coins was always something given so that subs could explore options never promised to be available outside the market.

[Amaranth]

Ofc its false advertisement, both their F2P vs Sub page and their video review stated that subscribers have full access to all features. That is obviously no longer the case.

 

Since subscribers get 600 cartel coins for free every month (assuming you have a security key), and the cost of Cathar is 600 cartel coins, technically subscribers do get it for free, in the sense that they don't have to pay anything out of pocket for it. So your claim that it's false advertisement is tenuous at best. That said, it does come across as being a bit shady in my opinion; I'd rather they just give the unlock to every subscriber automatically.

[MajikMyst]

the difference is that you can STIll do all these things with in game credits. they are not CC exclusive.

 

Sorry.. But that is irrelevant.. Why does that matter?? Again, subscribers get a monthly grant.. So the Cartel Market is covered..

 

Look.. If you all just want to sit back and QQ about this fine.. But honestly.. There is nothing to QQ about.. That is the entire reason that subscribers have a monthly grant is so that we could buy some stuff for free.. We are not entitled to everything for free.. Credits or otherwise..

 

I mean crap.. We got 50% off on the expansion.. Just $10 is what we paid.. Now you all are going to complain about 600cc for a Cathar species?? Really??

 

Bioware did not false advertise anything.. I have not read a single valid reason as to how we are being jipped or unfairly treated.. All I have seen is a bunch of people that have memory lapses about our monthly grant.. That is free money every month.. They even back paid us all the way back to when you first subscribed.. For me that was the start of the game.. That was all free money.. Where is the accounting for that??

 

I will gladly pay my 600cc for the Cathar.. Well.. My wife will.. I am not sure yet..

Edited April 27, 2013 by MajikMyst

[Icebergy]

So from what we've heard of the new 2.1 update it seems as both the new race, Cathar and the new customization options are being put into the cartel market. As such I'd like to draw attention to a page that Bioware themselves used as commercial for subscribing.

 

http://www.swtor.com/free/features

 

We've been constantly promised that subscribers would have full access to character customization. You guys at Bioware going to update that soon and stop making false advertisement? While I'm sure that the F2P and Cartel Market pushed this game forward there seemed to be a trend to make some actual content in this game a P2W hybrid where either you have to have enough in-game money to buy packs off the GTN or enough real-money to buy packs of the CM.

 

You will have full access to it. You just might have to spend a few of those cartel coins that they have been giving you for free for months. I know I would love something to spend them on, I have almost 4k stocked up in my account.

[kevlarto]

the cathar for 600cc is much cheaper than I though it would be, after all it is just a skin and brings nothing new to the game outside the look, but the barber shop for cartel coins is just a rip off, I went to the barber shop in lotro and guess what in game credits, like it should be..

[MajikMyst]

Look here, read what I posted and the link. "Full access to all Character Creation options.".

 

Look here at what you didn't post from the link..

 

Free access to any and all new species added to the game now and in the future..

 

Get it now?? Come on dude.. You are stretching it really thin there.. I mean thin!!

 

You do have full access to the character creation.. And all characters that you have access too.. That doesn't grant you access to all species ever added to the game.. Dude.. Read what you are posting!! The cather species doesn't qualify as character creation options..

 

Character creation options is hair style or eye color and stuff like that.. Not species.. And we never had full access to all the species to begin with.. We either had to pay credits for the ones we didn't have or level to 50 to get them.. We never got them for free.. I don't get what your issue is..

Edited April 27, 2013 by MajikMyst

[MisterMuse]

You will have full access to it. You just might have to spend a few of those cartel coins that they have been giving you for free for months. I know I would love something to spend them on, I have almost 4k stocked up in my account.

 

That's like saying, "Okay each new flashpoint we add into the game will cost 600 CC. But its fine because that's what you guys get each months. Or each new tier of gear is going to cost an unlock of 600 CC to use but that's okay for the same reasons." Sure this is just cosmetic and the actual value to the gameplay is minimal, but the idea that its so easy to change the subscriber system just scares me a bit.