Dear Ancient Hypergates Heroes

[kamikrazy]

I address this post specifically to the players that think they are helping their team out by going to "delay" the other team from capping their pylon or rush to cap the other team's pylon as an interval ends, only to die and have the pylon capped back. I'm not referring to employing certain tactics when your team is getting pounded at mid and are fresh out of options. No, I'm talking about players (many of which aren't even playing stealth classes) that don't realize that they are feeding the enemy team points whenever they die.

 

This is frustrating in matches where my team is handily winning, getting kills in mid and bringing the odd orb back to our pylon. The lone hero will venture out from mid, either to get promptly owned as the enemy team surges back into mid after they got cleared, or to rush the enemy team's pylon with 2 minutes still left in that round. You will actually have a negative contribution to the team, and in the later rounds your deaths will feed the enemy team even more (if I'm not mistaken).

 

No, orbs are not the only source of points in Ancient Hypergates. In fact, they tend to decide the outcome in very close matches. Which reminds me, if your team is bringing back orbs, loitering around at mid is inadvisable. There are no orbs left for you to protect, so unless you're a truly amazing player, you should wait right outside until the rest of your team returns and hope the enemy team overextends, giving you some easy kills. Otherwise, you are at risk of feeding the enemy team when they rush back into mid full-force.

 

TLDR: Dying in Ancient Hypergates is bad. Stop dying so much. You're a bad player if you die a lot. Don't be a bad player.

 

 

This PSA was paid for by the Association of Frustrated PvP'ers

Edited April 22, 2013 by kamikrazy

[Joesixxpack]

Try fingerpaint and emoticons. I doubt they'll get it otherwise.

[RodneyMcNeely]

I've played a Kinetic Combat Shadow since launch, and I have to agree with the OP. Generally, unless you're a stealth class with REALLY good CC and escape mechanics, you have no business trying to cap an enemy pylon. Your skillset is too critical to running orbs, controlling the mid-field, and defending your own team's pylon.

 

Now, I consistently win games by ninja capping pylons, but then again my spec is built specifically for doing so.

 

For starters: if there's more than one player defending the pylon, I don't even bother. I'll go run orbs since I took 2 points in Celerity and my Force Speed is on a 15-second cooldown.

 

If there's a single defender, it's really easy if his/her trinket is down. I stealth in using Blackout, get on top of the pylon (and preferably out of his/her field of view), and open with Force Lift. That way, I'm already out of stealth, they're CC'd, and I can insta-click to cap.

 

If they manage to trinket it gets a little trickier. I'll go for a restealth, wait for combat to break, then use Mind Maze. Once they're CC'd you have to be SUPER QUICK to break stealth and click on the pylon. You cannot waste even half a second or the CC will wear off before you can cap.

 

My point is this - ninja capping takes precision, timing, and insane amounts of situational awareness. Unless your class is built for that, you're better off killing the enemy, running orbs, and defending your own pylon.

 

The OP is right. Don't rush to your death trying to overwhelm a well-guarded enemy pylon. You're just feeding the enemy points.

[Jayshames]

I only had to hover over your thread title to read the first line and already agree with you. Too many Hypergate matches have I played where I ask the Assassins and Operatives why they are pushing opposing pylon in the beginning only to be replied to with "stop them from capping".

 

I mean sure you can get the odd game where no one actually caps one pylon, but I don't think you're going to be able to hold off a team off them with 2 people. I know resolve sucks but it's not that bad..

[Ridickilis]

A sure way to gauge if you should stay in this WZ or leave after the load screen; 6 guys on one side, one on the other side at the start of a match. Even if that one is a stealth, he's just taking himself out of the action for 2.5 minutes until the 30 second mark when he makes his move.

 

You also have to love the non stealth (and the stealth who aren't stealthed until they drop out of the re-spawn area) when they do try and ninja the node with 30 seconds left. Um, guys, a defender can see the respawners from the pylon. Stop advertising.

 

Anyway, as a solo q'er, my hatred of this warzone burns with the intensity of a thousand suns.

Edited April 22, 2013 by Ridickilis

[Avicii]

Also to the point if you arent a stealther dont run over there prior to 30-40 secs on the clock. You draw more on defense or if they dont leave a guard you ensure that they do by running over there.

 

Lulu them into comfortableness then have a stealther hit it before the timer, in PuGs there is often not a guard. The only advisable idea is to draw the guard away and let a stealther creep in and cap it.

 

I will say playing a stealth class its awesome to cap the pylon with 15 secs left in the game essentially winning it for your team

[Astarica]

There's literally no reason to ever visit the enemy pylon until about 1 to 1.5 minutes left because they will always take it back and you'd just be a free kill for them, unless the teams are so lopsided that you can just double cap them straight up. The only exception is if your team is very healer heavy to begin with so your plan is to just prevent them from capping with your superior heals since you cannot reliably get kills anyway.

 

As soon as your team grabbed 2 or more orbs in the room everyone should get out of there because at most the enemy team can only grab 2 more (equal to yours). If you stay to fight, you're missing the guys carrying the orb back so you're likely just feeding kills for the enemy too. Just run out of the room. The most they can do is 2 orbs (or less, if you grabbed more than 2).

[LarryRow]

Equally annoying are the dps heroes who never stop to think "Man, we are wrecking these guys. But we can just keep doing it. No way they would try to take our pylon with coordinated stealth, even though that's the only way they can win. That one schmuck non-stealther we left guarding is enough."

[kamikrazy]

Anyway, as a solo q'er, my hatred of this warzone burns with the intensity of a thousand suns.

 

This one and Huttball are the warzones where the games are essentially 10v6 if you have some bad pugs on your team.

 

This game needs a "Hungry Hungry Hippos" mode to cater to the kinds of players that can be seen (but are not limited to) beating on sages that have force barrier up.

[ML_DoubleTap]

I generally agree, but..counterpoint. In a well organized team, if you have someone that can pester and force another opponent or two to help back up at the pylon, you've put the other team at a disadvantage at mid. Should mean easier kills/orbs if they're gettin their own pylon 2 or 3v1. Overall, though, it's safest to just not do that

[Astarica]

It's pretty annoying when you have say 800 points projected versus say mid 500s projected for them and you know the only way they can possibly win is double cap and yet people are still fighting in the middle, and then you do get double capped. To be fair I think most people don't know 600 wins the map (or the higher score, if both teams are projected above 600) but when you've a 300 point projected lead, it should be pretty obvious that the enemy team will try to double cap because they sure aren't making that up on kills. Edited April 22, 2013 by Astarica

[LaVall]

I generally agree, but..counterpoint. In a well organized team, if you have someone that can pester and force another opponent or two to help back up at the pylon, you've put the other team at a disadvantage at mid. Should mean easier kills/orbs if they're gettin their own pylon 2 or 3v1. Overall, though, it's safest to just not do that

 

There's one guy on our server that does this all the time. He makes his approach obvious, takes the long way around, and gets half the team chasing him. He has no intention of actually taking the pylon, just tries to draw as many people to him and survive as long as possible. Meanwhile his team whipes the depleted forces at mid, grab all the orbs, and get a sizeable lead. Yeah, he dies and feeds the other teams a few points, but his team gains even more points in the process.

[Slaybred]

Theese days, post 2.0, chances are their AND your pylon are left un protected.

Thanx to this amazing horde of re subs and newbies so very persistant not to google any wz intel what so ever.

I for one love this in hutball... lets not get started there...

[Astarica]

The whole 'pester the other team' argument is meaningless when you actually look at numbers. Let's say you got this guy who makes himself visible and my team sends 3 guys to deal with this guy (if he's stealthed the other team would never be aware of his presence to send the guys to help to begin with). This guy generally dies very fast assuming my team is smart enough to know that you're supposed to all cap at the same time versus a stealther (that way he has to sap repeatedly and quickly white bar someone and then come out of stealth). At a glance this seems like a very good opportunity in the middle, but it is not. Assuming the other team has at least 1 guy guarding their own pylon, they have at most 6 guys in middle compared to our 5. So you have a 3v1 and a 5v6 elsewhere. In all likelihood the 1 guy gets killed immediately while the center fight is likely to drag for a while, and then 2 guys will arrive with one of them having conveniently picked up a WZ powerup while the guy you killed is likely still stuck behind the respawn barrier.

 

This is even worse if you send say 2 guys. Most likely one of those guys has to be a healer. So say my team uses 4 guys and the fight takes a while to resolve, but now in the middle you're fighitng 5on4 but the side with the 5 is missing a healer. The side defending the node (the 4v2) should use 4 DPS, and if 4 DPS can't beat 2 people of any combination some of those guys need to reroll anyway. Again the outcome is that the 4v2 should end in a decisive victory for the 4 rather quickly, and the center 4v5 is even worse now, because the side with the 5 might be down a healer (he's part of the 2) which means they won't be able to push their numbers advantage.

 

The only time the pestering strat works is when the defenders don't know you're supposed to all cap at the same time so you just get one guy sapped twice while the other 2 guys futilely look around for the stealth, even though had they all capped at the same time the stealther has to come out in about 10 seconds due to resolve mechanics and then he's totally dead.

Edited April 22, 2013 by Astarica

[DarthRaika]

What annoys me the most is when I am on my shadow or scoundrel and I let the team know before the match starts that I will steal their pylon at the end of rounds and 1 or 2 guys still just keep attacking their pylon. I even go as far as to say that to please not go to their pylon because it is much easier to steal it when they get lazy.

 

I haven't lost a hypergate in a long time on my shadow or scoundrel when my team actually doesn't send someone there over and over. I have even had some matches that were against fully geared dbl premades when I was a pretty poorly geared pug and won handidly with 2 or 3 steals. Infact I have found the better the other premade is (gear/comp wise) the more likely they will get lazy and leave only 1 on D. It is very easy to steal against one and can even do against 2 somewhat often. However, if your team doesn't stay mid then it is impossible.

 

What is also annoying is when I'm on my other chars and some shadow/scoundrel stays by their node in stealth the whole time. It is very easy to help mid until about the last minute or so depending on the situation. Then you can stealth to their node. Otherwise you are not helping out at all and if you fail to cap it then you might as well not even been in the wz.

[kamikrazy]

I alluded to more advanced tactics in my original post, but this thread is about keeping it simple and not giving free points to the other team.

[sirullrich]

I will tell you what is more annoying than people trying to sap cap hypergates. It's when ops or shadows think they can sap cap novarre and wait there until the match is almost over.

[Ashbo]

See I agree and disagree. For one, I ask my team if they want me to distract for these reasons:

1. Because if I'm in stealth and pestering the guard enough most likely the whole team will come if they are uncoordinated.

2. This will give my team an advantage to take orbs and control in mid.

3. If I die, its one kill vs all 4 orbs, which is fine sacrifice if you ask me.

 

Where I agree is when people that don't have stealth runs over to their pylon and I'm like really.....

 

 

If my team says no, I won't. If they want me to, I do.

 

Now, if I'm playing with my Fiance and we're both shadows, we can easily take their pylon and hold it for 2 minutes. We have done it a lot, lol.

I play on POT5, and it usually works. Again it is based on your team, like everything is.

[JouerTue]

that's quite useful on cw where time of first cap matters..

 

and on topic, you can see soon if you are going to stealth cap: guard alone near pylon, guard alone and another guy to divert guard's attention while you cap.

 

i love guarding on my guardian lol

 

 

p.s.

i call pylon when we are going to win and i know they will come to take ours

[TUXs]

I address this post specifically to the players that think they are helping their team out by going to "delay" the other team from capping their pylon or rush to cap the other team's pylon as an interval ends, only to die and have the pylon capped back. I'm not referring to employing certain tactics when your team is getting pounded at mid and are fresh out of options. No, I'm talking about players (many of which aren't even playing stealth classes) that don't realize that they are feeding the enemy team points whenever they die.

 

This should be in the description for AH and broadcast as an announcement before EVERY match starts.

[CharterMonkKent]

I address this post specifically to the players that think they are helping their team out by going to "delay" the other team from capping their pylon or rush to cap the other team's pylon as an interval ends, only to die and have the pylon capped back. I'm not referring to employing certain tactics when your team is getting pounded at mid and are fresh out of options. No, I'm talking about players (many of which aren't even playing stealth classes) that don't realize that they are feeding the enemy team points whenever they die.

 

This is frustrating in matches where my team is handily winning, getting kills in mid and bringing the odd orb back to our pylon. The lone hero will venture out from mid, either to get promptly owned as the enemy team surges back into mid after they got cleared, or to rush the enemy team's pylon with 2 minutes still left in that round. You will actually have a negative contribution to the team, and in the later rounds your deaths will feed the enemy team even more (if I'm not mistaken).

 

No, orbs are not the only source of points in Ancient Hypergates. In fact, they tend to decide the outcome in very close matches. Which reminds me, if your team is bringing back orbs, loitering around at mid is inadvisable. There are no orbs left for you to protect, so unless you're a truly amazing player, you should wait right outside until the rest of your team returns and hope the enemy team overextends, giving you some easy kills. Otherwise, you are at risk of feeding the enemy team when they rush back into mid full-force.

 

TLDR: Dying in Ancient Hypergates is bad. Stop dying so much. You're a bad player if you die a lot. Don't be a bad player.

 

 

This PSA was paid for by the Association of Frustrated PvP'ers

 

Sounds like a pug problem. Play ranked. Split squad AHs are epic fun.

[Banderal]

I would say, also, when you own mid, and 4 of your guys just got orbs, 2 are in the spawn and 1 is guarding... don't wait around by yourself in mid. Even if it feel like you aren't doing anything, go back with the orb carriers. Otherwise you are alone a mid when the other team comes storming in.

[foxmob]

I only had to hover over your thread title to read the first line and already agree with you. Too many Hypergate matches have I played where I ask the Assassins and Operatives why they are pushing opposing pylon in the beginning only to be replied to with "stop them from capping".

 

I mean sure you can get the odd game where no one actually caps one pylon, but I don't think you're going to be able to hold off a team off them with 2 people. I know resolve sucks but it's not that bad..

 

I like to stealth over there and see who they have capping and defending. if it's a stealth, I'll see if I can "shadow" him. see where he guards from. does he move or plant himself like a tool. sometimes I'll take the node in rnd 1 just cuz I can't resist the inclination. but usually...I think it's worth hanging out back there to see how best to win the match in the next rnd. unless you're really bad, you're not gonna lose a 2nd round or later cap, but 1st round, just about any team *can* overcome.

Edited April 23, 2013 by foxmob

[sauerkraut]

I address this post specifically to the players that think they are helping their team out by going to "delay" the other team from capping their pylon or rush to cap the other team's pylon as an interval ends, only to die and have the pylon capped back. I'm not referring to employing certain tactics when your team is getting pounded at mid and are fresh out of options. No, I'm talking about players (many of which aren't even playing stealth classes) that don't realize that they are feeding the enemy team points whenever they die.

 

This is frustrating in matches where my team is handily winning, getting kills in mid and bringing the odd orb back to our pylon. The lone hero will venture out from mid, either to get promptly owned as the enemy team surges back into mid after they got cleared, or to rush the enemy team's pylon with 2 minutes still left in that round. You will actually have a negative contribution to the team, and in the later rounds your deaths will feed the enemy team even more (if I'm not mistaken).

 

No, orbs are not the only source of points in Ancient Hypergates. In fact, they tend to decide the outcome in very close matches. Which reminds me, if your team is bringing back orbs, loitering around at mid is inadvisable. There are no orbs left for you to protect, so unless you're a truly amazing player, you should wait right outside until the rest of your team returns and hope the enemy team overextends, giving you some easy kills. Otherwise, you are at risk of feeding the enemy team when they rush back into mid full-force.

 

TLDR: Dying in Ancient Hypergates is bad. Stop dying so much. You're a bad player if you die a lot. Don't be a bad player.

 

 

This PSA was paid for by the Association of Frustrated PvP'ers

 

And what if the enemy team does not comply with your recommendations and sends, say 5 to your pylon and 2 stealths to theirs. 5 good players can easily prevent you from capping and the 2 stealth can defend. Your tactic only works, again an equally non flexible team. How you split up your team is absolutely depends on the situation. No preset rules.

[Astarica]

Stealth strategy pretty much assumes gross incompetence of the enemy and/or extreme hubris on the guy executing them and generally end up completely backfire in your face against any credible opposition. What people don't seem to realize is that having another guy to sneak attack their pylon means you have to be down one man somewhere assuming you still have one guy guarding your own pylon, which means the defending team can comfortably slaughter you 2 on 1 after you make your presence known and still be even overall, which ensures they'll get as easy a kill as they'll ever get.

 

It's true most people still do not seem to get that to defend a node against stealth you simply start out standing very far away from it. Heck, you can stand by where the WZ power up is, with your face pointing toward your pylon. If someone drops out of stealth to cap you'll still be able to stop it on time as long as you've a 30m attack. If you get attacked at that position help is literally 10m away from you. This is a ridiculously bad way to defend a pylon but it'll still suffice because Hypergates is extremely hard to attack by stealth (but extremely easy to attack by brute force).