Shadows/assassins need a rebalance

[lawlessyulaw]

My first toon was a deception sin, played pvp all the way up to 50, and was mocked by 95% of everyone I encountered, sometimes even by my own team because I was deception speced. That doesnt happen anymore, now I have a better chance to kill that sniper one on one, or that Op if I can get the opener. Im happy with the changes, I think deception sins have finally been put where should have been from the start of the game. The only thing that still makes me mad, is the tanks who block parry or dodge EVERY attack I do even when im behind them using Maul.

[biowareftw]

I was talking about the tone of you posts tbh.

 

Now on topic, I have a 80 valor Operative (played through the BM token days) and the sole reason I rolled a Sin/Shadow was becasue this class was my hard counter. I think the Infil tactics proc. on kick and Low slash is nessesary, I see them as hidden strike and backstab analoges, but they don't apply a dot.

 

The damage is not the problem, I think the utility might be, thats what I used to qq about to my buddies and I think, correct me if I'm wrong, its gotten better. That said if you defensive skills are or cooldown and you overextend, then your dead.

 

If anything needs a SLIGHT change its the classes utility.

 

Might want to read this thread and see who we are dealing with. As someone who plays both classes you and I both know that this IS a stupidly hard counter to a op/shadow as well as everything else.

 

They claim scoundrel/op's kill them (this can only be true if they are horrid players).

 

You specifically re rolled because this class was a hard counter to everything, and a INSANELY hard counter to the other stealth dps, which made them WORTHLESS. If anything you should be 100 percent agreeing with me.

 

As far as your quote, "That said if you defensive skills are or cooldown and you overextend, then your dead." Agreed. After 12 seconds, 24 on a vanish, you become only slightly better then a operative/scoundrel. Actually you have 30 percent more mitigation to AOE, and the mitigation talents = better then medium armor, now that we can fit 30 percent armor in the tree. So even when all the stupidly high mitigation ends? You are STILL better off then a scoundrel/op and things like smash will hit for 30 percent less.

 

Again, I have repeatedly said that the damage is not the thing that is "totally out of control". It is the mitigation/cc immunity AND having the same burst as a op/scoundrel. Being able to burst someone down quick while being a stupidly soft target that isn't front line viable? That is one thing. I think scoundrel/op could use some more mitigation, but whatever.

 

Being able to burst someone down just as quickly while immune to CC, and sporting as much mitigation as a cloak of pain marauder, coming out of STEALTH? Is broken. You know it. I know it. That is why you rerolled from a op/scoundrel to a shadow/sin.

 

When one class made the other class worthless due to a heavily one sided 1 v 1 matchup, and also can fight in the thick of things, near the smashers, attempting to kill a healer? That is called broken.

 

You can't argue these things, because they are true. Until these 2 classes are even close 1 v 1 ? The scoundrel/op is broken in everything except RP/pve servers fighting against keyboard turners. Even then? One is front line viable and one is not. Some major things have to change for op/scoundrel to ever be viable or even worth playing as anything other then a healer.

Edited April 21, 2013 by biowareftw

[Monterone]

I literally don't know what the OP is talking about, I've been eating face on my Concealment Operative. They're doing great from what I can see. Sure, not the BEST, but they can definitely hold their own.

 

I've seen the same, there are a couple of concealment ops who outdps me, and I don't think I'm a scrub ; I really think if you're having issues putting up similar numbers in deception and concealment, you need more practice, it's purely learn to play.

 

My first toon was a deception sin, played pvp all the way up to 50, and was mocked by 95% of everyone I encountered, sometimes even by my own team because I was deception speced. That doesnt happen anymore, now I have a better chance to kill that sniper one on one, or that Op if I can get the opener. Im happy with the changes, I think deception sins have finally been put where should have been from the start of the game. The only thing that still makes me mad, is the tanks who block parry or dodge EVERY attack I do even when im behind them using Maul.

 

Deception has never been allowed in ranked, and it's always underperformed. And it's true people actually laughed at deception specced sins, and told us to go hybrid to be taken seriously. Now that the spec has been fixed and is performing on par with some other classes, the whiners come out and want to put it back to unplayable status. First of all let's see if deception will even get taken to ranked now, if not it still needs help.

 

But you're right, let's nerf assassins with their 8-9k Mauls that happen 20% of the time, but let's leave in 10k Smashes that crit 100% of the time and hit as a 5 target AoE... right, Mr. Marauder?

Edited April 21, 2013 by Monterone

[Forsaked]

People getting hit for 8k to 9k mauls should go look at the record thread found here 2.0 Individual Class Records . Because all classes have had hits regularly for 8k to 10k . So if hitting for 8k to 10k is OP then all classes need a nerf.

 

Commando 10k in 2.0

Snipper 9k hit 2.0

Dps Jug 8500 hit 2.0

Assasin 8865 hit in 2.0

 

This is just a few as time goes on and people hit 55 there will be a lot more player's hitting for over 8k to 10k with any of the AC.

 

What the QQers want is sin/shadows to hit with Qtips for like 2dps because were a stealth class and have so much utility we should do no dps at all that's fair right? If your not hitting for 8k to 10k on your class your doing it wrong this means you need to do some research into rotation spec or what stats you need to stack. Because all classes have the potential to hit for 9k.

 

Now take into account that right now bolster is giving more stats to player's in raid gear over full pvp gear and say that this will not change some what when they fix bolster. Because right now it not the classes being OP it a screwed up bolster system causing really good players to hit like this in mostly raid gear.

 

You forgot something:

 

Vanguard 11K in 2.0

 

P.S.: This was a Bug hit, dont know how it happens... compared to a Assasins you pull most time only 4.8-6K DMG with HiB!

Edited April 21, 2013 by Forsaked

[Monterone]

When one class made the other class worthless due to a heavily one sided 1 v 1 matchup, and also can fight in the thick of things, near the smashers, attempting to kill a healer? That is called broken.

 

You can't argue these things, because they are true. Until these 2 classes are even close 1 v 1 ? The scoundrel/op is broken in everything except RP/pve servers fighting against keyboard turners. Even then? One is front line viable and one is not. Some major things have to change for op/scoundrel to ever be viable or even worth playing as anything other then a healer.

 

Wow, dude, you're all over the place, calm down. If I remember correctly, you were one of the staunchest defenders of marauders and everything they have, from insane cooldowns to exceptional single target burst, all the way to highest hitting attack in the game, which also happens to be an AoE. And for months and months, you were saying to everyone maras are fine and it's a learn to play issue for others.

 

You were even telling people that this is NOT a 1v1 game and you need to depend on your team... one should not go head to head with a marauder right? You need team backup for that.

 

And now here you are whining about some other 1v1, when it doesn't suit you right. Meh, I think you need to take a dose of your own medicine, because I for one do not take you seriously.

[RankorSSGS]

So much lol

[ripamorame]

LOL

 

Deception/Infiltration has been a sub-par pvp spec since the beginning of the game. Sorry for you die hard believers, but the Tank in DPS gear ruled the day). BW finally gets the class right and of course ppl are crying.

 

I looked at a couple of the OP's other post and it appears he plays a sniper. I bet he'd QQ if someone started a post calling for a nerf to snipers.

I actually i have one of each class i was playing a merc when makeb hit and that is far from balanced you clearly didn't look at my other posts and bringing this up rather than answering back to bioware ftw just shows you cannot argue concisely and well.

I would like equal footing and i don't think any class should be the best in 1 vs 1 it just shouldn't no other mmo has a class like this why do they have a stealther that has large burst if they get opener off and another which has large burst no matter what. Yes i play a arsenal merc but i also have just rolled a sniper due to the fact that it's one of the only good ranged classes and those 10k ambushes are only one attack they arent mauls, a finisher and 7k projects 7k discharges its one ability not 4. If someone can tell me why a class like this is allowed to have the best utility the best burst stealth that it doesn't even need then i will be happy. I want a fair and equal footing in pvp not one class being on top i know balance will never be right but this is ridiculous every class pre 2.0 had a counter this class does not and saying "if snipers get 10k ambushes so should we" maybe you should just not 7-10k crits all round. You all complained about pyros 5k railshots but now you have a just as simple ability that hits very hard but its not broken very hypocritical. Its a good job arenas aren't in this game with the lolassassin class and scoundrel healers.

Edited April 21, 2013 by ripamorame

[Monterone]

I actually i have one of each class i was playing a merc when makeb hit and that is far from balanced you clearly didn't look at my other posts and bringing this up rather than answering back to bioware ftw just shows you cannot validate why your class is op atm

 

Actually, the burden of proof is on you guys. You're claiming something is wrong, so you have to back it up with parses and evidence.

 

The parse posted on page one shows what all the assassins are saying, low crit rate, low average hits... you guys are claiming OMG 9k crits back to back to back! Prove it... and then we can calculate what the chances of that happening are.

 

Without actual pvp parses and proof to back it up with, I'm just gonna keep telling you guys to practice more and get geared better.

 

Edit: and yes we need a parse, just a screenshot of a wz where you do 100k damage more than someone else proves nothing. There could be a million factors why you outdpsed someone.

Edited April 21, 2013 by Monterone

[yotasatheart]

Will you stop using this BS pve argument? No one cares about pve here.

 

Before 2.0 I couldn't proc 2 increased damage mauls within seconds of eachother. Both low slash and our knockdown opener proc them. Low slash is on a minuscule 15 second cooldown.

 

Before 2.0 I couldn't spec into 30 percent more armor, which along with other mitigation makes us better then medium armor (and this doesn't include 30 percent mitigation to aoe's and 25 percent more mitigation out of stealth for 12 seconds, that resets on every restealth).

 

Before 2.0 I had to slowly build up breach stacks. I did not have a 3 stack ready to rock someones world every single time I restealthed.

 

Before 2.0, I did not have a 60 more percent crit talent for spells, which in turn procs 9 percent more crit on melee, that was available on damn near every restealth.

 

Before 2.0 my 2 min technique damage increase did not also instantly heal me for 15 percent of my health (piggybacked with a medpack this is extremely good).

 

Before 2.0 I did not grant my entire warzone raid 6 percent more dmg to any target i stun/knockdown.

 

Before 2.0 I did not have a lower energy execute that did 30 percent more damage (along with everything else when target is low).

 

Now if you are talking about pve? No, you can't get out of combat and restealth in boss encounters.

 

This is a pvp forum genius. All of these things are present in pvp and not in pve.

 

Now go ahead and link a parse where none of this is usable in pve, except the execute talent. Seriously just stop posting.

 

 

PVE post? im pretty sure he stated quite a few times it was a warzone parse???? maybe open your eyes bud. furthermore, you sound like a pissed off sage who got rocked by a 50 assassin in middies pvp.

 

try facing a deception sin in the 55s bracket. TTK in 55s is far longer and their burst is substantially lower.

 

please cry somewhere else

[yotasatheart]

Again I have posted screenshots of all my characters. I am not whining. I am saying one of the classes I play is GOD mode and completely imbalanced.

 

Add to that the character completely counters my other stealth character and makes him useless.

 

You on the other hand are just trash and finally happy you can top WZ dmg on a class that was completely fine pre 2.0 and which I led damn near every game I played on him as SINGLE TARGET DPS.

 

YOU are the whiner. You KNOW this is imbalanced. You just don't want to be nerfed.

 

I have listed every reason this class is superior and imbalanced compared to a op/scoundrel. You list some stupid parse from a warzone? Why the hell would anyone parse a freakin warzone. Do you have 100 percent uptime in a warzone? Were you hitting tanks/high mitigation targets?

 

Want a warzone parse? Look at damage done. When a single target spec is beating out aoe specs, while having no counter? That is broken.

 

lol, no deception sin will ever EVER beat a smasher, sniper/slinger or lightning sorc in total damage. it will never happen unless those players are completelly terrible at their class. my smash amrauder can out damage my deception sin with ease and ive been playing deception a LONG time, and only JUST started playing smash for the first time ever in this game.

 

your whining is moot. i very highly doubt you even have an asassin/shadow

[yotasatheart]

the issue isnt so much that they have a 10K maul but the fact that they can proc it with recklessness, 2 hits like that and your already down to less that 10k health. imagine if an arsnall merc could proc heat seeker and rail shot! thats 13K after the tracers have fully procced the damage and still only just over half over what a sin can do in 2 global cooldowns.

 

Personally im pyro merc, imagine my frustration when i net them stick y bomb on them and they go invincible and do that to me, im now 10k vs 30k with no main skill. and that's nearly every encounter. then they stealth and come out with another burst and GG

 

In short yes they should be nerfed, shorter invincibility and do they really need 2 procs from recklessness? i would still play my own sin with that happily.

 

shorter "invincibility"?? you do realize it only raises resistances for tech/force by 100%, and does NOTHING against internal, energy, kinetic, or white damage?? yes it negates those damages coming from a tech attack but only if said damage is a tech attack.

 

FURTHERMORE, cloak is only 3 seconds long on a deception asassin, and you relaly want it to be lowered even more?? you do relize that if they made it any shorter it would be 100% useless.

 

FURTHERMORE you do realize that increasing your accuracy past 100% lowers that chance for cloak to resist force/tech attacks or effects right? i cant count how many times, just for example, that i have been pulled by a VG/PT while my cloak was up.

 

its not as godmode as you amke it out to be

[yotasatheart]

A l2p issue? A shadow/sin hard counters a scoundrel/op harder then a sniper counters a marauder/sent. That fight is not winnable if the players are even close to = in skill. .

 

explain to me how this is a bigger counter than a sniper is to a marauder. PLEASE explain this to me. snipers have a multitude of roots and knockbacks, complete CC immunity, and incredible burst. marauers can only leap to target when they are smash unless the sniper is running (which they shouldnt be). you cant cc a sniper when he is bunkered down, which si anywhere from 20-40seconds at a time. they get an aoe knockback, a knockback on ambush, very low CD on leg shot that doesnt add to resolve, a hard stun and a 8sec mez.

 

i dont think you know what your talking about at all.

 

One isn't reliant on his opener. One has 25 percent more PLUS mitigation coming out of stealth for 12 seconds. One can go completely immune to the others damage and CC..

 

how is asassin not reliant on their opener. spike is potent of its not on CD. even if its not, we still require a CRIT for maul to do decent damage. if it doesnt crit, its damage is pathetic, which is the EXACT SAME BOAT AS A OP

 

This matchup isn't even close. I can beat a operative if they GET the opener. They have no chance in hell of beating me if I get mine, and I am always going to get it when attacking.

 

your a terrible sin if you even have one. if the scoundral gets the drop on you, if you DO beat him, you should be breathing your last breath. whoever gets the opener should win this fight 9/10 times given equal skill and all abilities off CD

 

 

That makes one good for defending and one bad. The only time a scoundrel/op is viable on defense is when no infilt/sins are present in the warzone LOL.

 

your kidding me right? no matter wether the sin is a tank or not, you both are very capeable of defending a node for at LEAST 16 seconds or more, solo, against multiple enemies, and scoundrals are by far even better at this than a sin due to flash bang. my lvl 34 OP has defended a node for almost 40seconds solo against 2 people through smart use of sleep dart, flash bang, attacking to interupt cap, vanishing, and doing it all over again.

 

 

Bad play doesn't make these classes close to equal. Add to this? Scoundrel/op are MUCH worse in a group fight...

 

No they are not. if you play your concealment OP CORRECTLY, they are completelly viable in a group encounter. say you see a vengeance jugg attacking the enemy healer, but he just cant quite get him down. its your job as a stealth (wether your an OP or SIN) to assist in bursting down high priority targets, then to poof away. that is your JOB, not to run in like rambo and slay everyone and walk away with a strut. thats not your job, and clearly this shows you have a L2P issue

 

You said it yourself. Scoundrel/op's aren't frontline fighters. So if they lose to a shadow/sin dps spec EVERY TIME, and they suck at group fights, then what purpose do they have? None.

 

if you seriously dont know the answer to this, see the answer i have written to your whine about group fights...

[yotasatheart]

No it can't

Maul is unaffected by recklessness. Completely.

Maul=Weapon damage

Recklessness ONLY affect force.

Recklessness will affect stuff like Discharge, Shock, Electrocute, Spike, ect.

It doesn't effect stuff like Maul, VS and all that.

 

Really, all you guys are doing is proving that the people who think the Assassin overpowered, have obviously never seriously played them.

 

Thumbs up for this guy

[biowareftw]

Wow, dude, you're all over the place, calm down. If I remember correctly, you were one of the staunchest defenders of marauders and everything they have, from insane cooldowns to exceptional single target burst, all the way to highest hitting attack in the game, which also happens to be an AoE. And for months and months, you were saying to everyone maras are fine and it's a learn to play issue for others.

 

You were even telling people that this is NOT a 1v1 game and you need to depend on your team... one should not go head to head with a marauder right? You need team backup for that.

 

And now here you are whining about some other 1v1, when it doesn't suit you right. Meh, I think you need to take a dose of your own medicine, because I for one do not take you seriously.

 

?? My shadow is getting geared first. The scoundrel last (if I bother to gear him at all). The 1 v 1 and ALL 1 v 1's are in MY FAVOR.

 

Maras have a hard counter (sniper). Sins/shadow have none. Not a lot of people played snipers/slingers which made the problem seem even bigger. It doesn't change the fact that maras had a designed counter though.

 

Their only hard counter pre 2.0 as deception/infiltration was...a hybrid specced sin/shadow (LOL). So one OP spec was keeping the other OP spec down, which was then buffed to stupid levels? Makes perfect sense. If you were losing to a marauder/sent as a infiltration, deception build pre 2.0? You were an idiot. 55 percent mitigation to smash = LOL, and they usually missed the first one due to a cloak. Were you standing in ravage? We have a 15 second cooldown to stop that. We have a forcepush to stop that. We have a stun to stop that. The only spec marauder/sent that stood a chance was an annihilation build (noone plays them), and it was still a loss if both people were = skill.

 

This isn't just about 1 v 1. This is two stealth classes with the same burst, except one has exceptional mitigation and one does not. One can go immune to CC, one can't. One beats every class in the game with ease, and one doesn't. With a hybrid sin? It wasn't that much of an issue because it took so LONG to kill the other player. With deception/infiltration? This isn't an issue.

 

Also why the hell would I care what you think? You are some garbage player, who gets outdsped by freakin operatives. I have posted screenshots of me doubling the damage of smashers on my scoundrel. I can outdps you by a ton on him. I can outdps you by far more on my shadow, while dying a whole lot less and fighting outnumbered/carrying a team by ninjaing nodes 1 on 2. People led dps on freakin arsenal before 2.0. Did it make the class good? No it means you and everyone in that warzone suck/ed.

 

Who are these good operatives? They usually get outdpsed by mine by 200-300k, unless I am rolling around (doing no damage)? What some operative who queues with a premade with voicecom and heals/tanks against none? Those are freakin impressive screenshots!

 

I have to laugh at the idea that infiltration/deception was bad pre 2.0. No it wasn't bad. Keyboard turning, slow playing morons, were just more successful as a tank build spamming frontal attacks, putting a big aoe on the ground and casting a channeled that couldn't be interrupted.

 

Pre 2.0 my shadow could often lead dps against good players. My scoundrel on the other hand, excelled at smoking recruit geared morons.

 

I love how you all think it is ok that one stealth class completely stomps the other stealth class, and that it is also ok for them to have the mitgation to stand up there with warrior classes in a large fight.

 

I guess we as the forum are supposed to tell all scoundrel/op's who are under the impression that low level dmg is going to be present at 55, and that the worst mitigation in the game is going to be good for extended fights, that they should have rolled shadow/sin, and tell them reroll noob. l2p.

 

You can't debate anything. You actually think it is ok for one class to counter EVERYTHING. You actually think that both stealth classes should have equal burst, but only one should have insane mitigation and CC immunity.

 

I would love to hear a developer tell me "Both classes should hit hard on openers, but only one should have mitigation like a cloak of pain marauder, AND not be tied to their opener, AND be able to do silly burst outside of stealth, AND not be automessed on an opener vs a sage/sorc, and not be subject to the first ballistic charge on a sniper, because the opener isn't the BIG DAMAGE ability, AND proc power relics help shadow/sin more then op/scoundrel, because the maul comes after the opener , and be immune to CC on their defensive cooldown".

 

People would laugh at them. The whole situation is a joke, and people defending it are a bigger joke. The funny thing? The people in this thread are probably the same morons taunting the PT's/vanguards for their nerf.

 

Enjoy god mode while you have it, because everytime you bump it? The pvp design team looks like imbeciles, and they will be forced to remedy the situation with all the rerolls, and people pulling their sin/shadow out of retirement.

Edited April 21, 2013 by biowareftw

[yotasatheart]

^This. Played deception only since launch and Monterone's damage and crit % is spot-on with my own. ~3300 and 22% . Monterone, you obviously know this spec. the way biowareftw talks he's got crits flying out his a@@. I call BS.

agreed, im full partisian with conqueror wep and full blue overkill 28 augments on my assassin and i only have 23.5% crit. when my maul doesnt crit, i see about 3300-3400 damage. even when i do crit i see anywhere from 6k vs a tank to maybe 9k versus a sage.

 

his numbers are grossly overated and iv actually by this point started to ignore all of his posts

[biowareftw]

agreed, im full partisian with conqueror wep and full blue overkill 28 augments on my assassin and i only have 23.5% crit. when my maul doesnt crit, i see about 3300-3400 damage. even when i do crit i see anywhere from 6k vs a tank to maybe 9k versus a sage.

 

his numbers are grossly overated and iv actually by this point started to ignore all of his posts

 

You were original fatman huh? Remember Liu-kang? That is me kid.

 

Do the same test with backblast. Then tell me when both don't crit and suck? Which class is better. No mitigation or stupidly high mitigation for a stealth class...

 

Then again you think a class with no mitigation, no 30 percent aoe mitigation, no 25 percent for 12 seconds after coming out of stealth mitigation = good in a group fight...

 

How many times can I say the problem has to do with a stunlock while immune to CC, and high mitigation vs none?

 

100 times? Would that do it? I am well on my way there. Anyways thanks again for bumping this thread to show a gross imbalance in the game! You people keep on saying that non crits don't hit hard, when a whole 3 specs have auto crits on ONE spell and two of those are on the same class lol.

 

Derp crit nerf only affected me, derp.

Edited April 21, 2013 by biowareftw

[Astarica]

In 2.0, due to the general nerf on crit % it also makes less sense to stack up on Surge, which means your crit is likely a low % and your Surge isn't going to be very high either because you know you won't be critting often. I have a hard time getting to say 75% Surge modifier, but I don't even see why I'd want to push for Surge when I can only crit 25% of the time to begin with. Now, in the leveling range, due to Bolster you'll end up with like 30%+ Crit and 75%+ Surge, which are basically unobtainable numbers at 55 so your crits are going to hit insanely hard and they'll happen way more often than they should. I was critting people for 10K on Ambush on my level 20 Sniper and yet level 55 Snipers don't come anywhere close to this kind of damage despite having in theory much better gear, because it simply doesn't make sense to stack up on crit/surge in 2.0 so the only way you're going to get a high amount of it is through pre 55 Bolster.

 

Also in 2.0, due to the general nerf to crit, it's a lot fuzzier on who beats who. When everyone crit 40% of the time there's virtually no chance of any lucky because everyone's going to crit anyway. With crit around 25%, whoever crits a big attack like a Maul definitely has a big advantage over anybody he's fighting. I'd go from one fight where I faceroll a Deception Assassin or Concealment Op, and next fight I could be down on the floor and halfway dead before I even got up because they crit their Hidden Strike + Backstab. The difference is that in 2.0, getting crit by Hidden Strike + Backstab is a pretty rare occurence, so when it happens you just have to shrug it off.

Edited April 21, 2013 by Astarica

[Darthdaedric]

Really Biowareftw, every time this thread get's bumped, it's not going to hurt us, it's only going to hurt you.

It shows hows you don't have any evidence to back up your claims, you refuse to produce any, and most arguments against the assassin class are filled with misinformation.

[biowareftw]

Really Biowareftw, every time this thread get's bumped, it's not going to hurt us, it's only going to hurt you.

It shows hows you don't have any evidence to back up your claims, you refuse to produce any, and most arguments against the assassin class are filled with misinformation.

 

Dance puppets dance, and keep bumping. I have all the evidence in the world and so does Bioware/EA. The mitigation problem is real. Crappy players who can now top dps who weren't before. They have metrics. They see massive rerolls, and people stacking sins. People have admitted in this thread they dropped their scoundrel/op for a sin/shadow, because the op/scoundrel was POINTLESS.

 

Scoundrels/ops got nerfed to the ground despite being an unpopular class, and based on regular warzones, and this was before adrenals were even addressed. This is what happens when ANY stealth class is OP. The only thing that prevented a nerf before is you all played tanks.

 

LOL at you delusional kids who play one class, and think you know jack about balance. The funny thing? You don't even play it well enough to see it is broken.

 

LOL at the kid who said he can't get an opener on a sin.

 

LOL more at the kid who said he loses 1 v 1 's to op/scoundrels.

 

LOL more at people who thought this spec was broken BEFORE 2.0, even though the only reason people avoided playing ALL stealth (and sins/shadows were still way better), is because of hybrid sin in dps gear.

 

LOL the most at people using the crit nerf (which affected most classes) to justify these shenanigans.

 

Give this forum 2 weeks and it is going to EXPLODE, when people get to 55 and see how stupid this class is atm. Good luck with all the propaganda, trying to get the class to stay like this! Better get those excuses and BS arguments ready (even though I have busted them all in this thread).

 

I will say...I told you so.

Edited April 21, 2013 by biowareftw

[Monterone]

Really Biowareftw, every time this thread get's bumped, it's not going to hurt us, it's only going to hurt you.

It shows hows you don't have any evidence to back up your claims, you refuse to produce any, and most arguments against the assassin class are filled with misinformation.

 

That's why I keep bumping the thread.

 

I've posted a real parse from the 55 bracket, with similarly geared players. Both sides had 1mil+ healers. Not only that but the opponents had 2-3 sage healers, which provided the perfect scenario for big hits on squishies and overall high dps.

 

I am very confident that the qq'ers won't come up with any concrete proof and will not post any parses of their own to back up their words. So, let's keep bumping it.

 

P.S. Calling me a garbage player won't make you any better bioftw.

Edited April 22, 2013 by Monterone

[biowareftw]

That's why I keep bumping the thread.

 

I've posted a real parse from the 55 bracket, with similarly geared players. Both sides had 1mil+ healers. Not only that but the opponents had 2-3 sage healers, which provided the perfect scenario for big hits on squishies and overall high dps.

 

I am very confident that the qq'ers won't come up with any concrete proof and will not post any parses of their own to back up their words. So, let's keep bumping it.

 

P.S. Calling me a garbage player won't make you any better bioftw.

 

You posted a parse of pvp which has NOTHING to do with mitigation, or this entire freakin discussion.

 

What part of this don't you understand?

 

Parse this. Take a scoundrel coming out of stealth and your sin coming out of stealth (blackout). Have a carnage marauder/mm sniper/merc unload on them and see which one gets instagibbed. Also have a rage jug/marauder hit them with smash. Get back to me, when you link a parse that has ANYTHING to do with mitigation, and going immune to CC, while having as good or better burst, as big a opener, and not being tied to that opener.

 

A DPS parse in this discussion, would be like me debating that one tank has way more mitigation then another, and me linking a dps parse and saying, proved you wrong!

 

Add to all this? It is not an accurate parse due to all the variables involved. Did you parse an op in the same warzone? Who took more damage? Were you under the effects of a taunt? Were there any soft targets like a dps scoundrel to hit?

 

How many of those hits were under taunts? How many were after sapped strength effects by the sorcs? Increased armor on the sorc? Were you hitting dps sorcs?

 

When you have any empirical evidence having to do with stupid mitgation given to one class that already counters everyone 1 v 1, and not given to another? Let me know all about it. Until then? Keep posting nonsense.

 

Let me sup up this entire stupid thread.

1. You all admit sin/shadow has no counter. It doesn't.

2. You all admit you hit every bit as hard a op/scoundrel. We do.

3. The ones that are not keyboard turners all admit that shadow/sin completely counters the other stealth class making them useless in the ninja/defense game. Some even admit they re rolled for this purpose

4. You can't refute any of the points I made on mitigation, because they are all real talents, and a huge issue, as is going immune to CC while gunning someone down on a bursty class.

 

To prove me wrong? You link a dps parse with the softest target being a healing sage with a armor buff, with taunts, damage debuffs galore and uptime that is not 100 percent.

 

/slowclap

Edited April 22, 2013 by biowareftw

[Darthdaedric]

Well, it's more evidence than what you've provided for your side.

All you've provided are flat out lies and exaggerations and you've twisted posts meanings to fit your purposes.

You truly do a poor job of representing your case.

[biowareftw]

Well, it's more evidence than what you've provided for your side.

All you've provided are flat out lies and exaggerations and you've twisted posts meanings to fit your purposes.

You truly do a poor job of representing your case.

 

What evidence? What are we comparing it to? Are the parses for other classes there? Are debuffs/armor buffs shown? How about taunts? Are those shown? Where is the screenshot for the warzone with damage done and dps per second? Where is the protection screenshot? What was his spec? Was he specced in increased dmg for players under 30 percent health? Was he specced into increased damage while people are stunned/knocked down on opener?

 

I HAVE listed evidence. Both scoundrel/op/sin/shadow trees are freely available for anyone to look at. One has stupidly high mitigation. One doesn't. I listed it all. I showed how the cloth argument is bogus. If you want to argue that the burst/dmg is similar? Go right ahead. You only make my point all the more vaild.

 

I also have collaborating evidence from players who have rerolled to infiltration/deception BECAUSE of this imbalance, in this THREAD. This was BEFORE 2.0 hit.

 

I haven't twisted jack. I am not the one linking a parse of dmg done, with no frame of reference and nothing to compare it to, when that parse is subject to a) uptime on the target, b) dmg debuffs (3 heal sorcs? Might want to look at the corruption tree for dmg debuffs), c) taunts, and d) armor buffs.

 

That parse is good for 2 things. Jack and @!$@ and jack just left town.

Edited April 22, 2013 by biowareftw

[Monterone]

Parse this. Take a scoundrel coming out of stealth and your sin coming out of stealth (blackout). Have a carnage marauder/mm sniper/merc unload on them and see which one gets instagibbed. Also have a rage jug/marauder hit them with smash. Get back to me, when you link a parse that has ANYTHING to do with mitigation, and going immune to CC, while having as good or better burst, as big a opener, and not being tied to that opener.

 

Go ahead, I'm not gonna do it for you. You're the one making claims you can't back up.

 

I'll wait here for your evidence.

 

Btw, the parse I posted has all the information, deaths, kills, damage taken, outgoing and incoming heals... Free tip for you: parsing your own fights will greatly increase your competence level and teach you about what's really going on in fights, and where you can improve your skill and your gear. For example that parse told me I need to add about another 1.5% accuracy to my gear to be in a happier place. It also told me that 22 or 20% crit rating won't make much of a difference, so I will be dropping crit for more power. It tells me I should use Low Slash more, and with it Maul a bit more. That means I need to change my rotation a bit to free up 30 force for Low Slash. I also see that Maul crit rate is too low, which can mean two things -- either I'm wasting too much time after a force crit and not using exploitative strikes on maul, or that it's bugged and not working on maul at all since it's critting at a base 22%, so it needs to be watched. VS is a large portion of damage so +6% damage talent from darkness is essential.

Edited April 22, 2013 by Monterone

[biowareftw]

Go ahead, I'm not gonna do it for you. You're the one making claims you can't back up.

 

I'll wait here for your evidence.

 

Btw, the parse I posted has all the information, deaths, kills, damage taken, outgoing and incoming heals... Free tip for you: parsing your own fights will greatly increase your competence level and teach you about what's really going on in fights, and where you can improve your skill and your gear. For example that parse told me I need to add about another 1.5% accuracy to my gear to be in a happier place. It also told me that 22 or 20% crit rating won't make much of a difference, so I will be dropping crit for more power.

 

Translation. I wont provide a screenshot with protection shown. My parse is flawed due to not having protection/dmg reduction/armor buffs, taunts.

 

I also won't parse something relevant to this discussion because the math is all there and it would just show how stupid it is for a stealth class to get this mitigation/cc immunity, and put out as much damage as a class who has none of that.

 

Thanks for playing!

 

P.S. How many dps scoundrels/op's were in that game. Oh yeah...no one brings them because a dps sin/shadow is now ranked viable in group fights, a better defender/capper, completely counters THE ONLY OTHER STEALTH CLASS, and can respec to 12/31/3 at anytime and be a completely viable defender (as in derp, I r can solo 3 people for awhile before I call for help), with the same rotation minus 1 button.

 

So cool man. My shadow should be viable for ranked as tank, hybrid and dps, beat everything 1 v 1, be good in large scale fights. My scoundrel/op should only be viable as a healer. Makes perfect sense. Thanks for explaining this all to me.

 

Delete one character after I spend my ranked on him, and never look back, or question stupid imbalances in the game. I simply shouldn't care that an entire AC gets screwed in favor of someone who parses warzones (LOL). Oh yeah and friends who rolled scoundrel/op? Just tell them sorry your class sucks. Roll sin noobs. You are only good for pre endgame warzones and killing f2p's LOL.

 

And Bioware/EA wonders why this game continues to be a failure as far as anyone giving a damn about the pvp in it. It would take all of 5 minutes of looking at the trees, and playing both stealth classes for any decent WoW arena player to ask...what the hell were you thinking...

 

I have come to the conclusion that this game just caters to the mass rolled classes to make money. They could care less about balance. So enjoy pvp in a game noone gives a damn about, because it gets worse with every patch. Then get rolled by people who think this game is a big joke.

Edited April 22, 2013 by biowareftw