Stop always blamming the tank!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[LarryRow]

That's a fine line. The healer could be bombarded because they started healing before the tank got aggro. Or the tank didn't pick up all the mobs. OR the DPS isn't smart enough to burst down the weaker mobs that the tank usually isn't tanking, and thus they smack on the healer.

 

 

^ This. When I'm tanking, I assume the dps will go for the weak mobs (which has resulted in a few frantic pulls at the beginning of instances...) until they show me they dont know to do this. Then I tell them to. When they still don't, I know it will be a long run. But sometimes they figure it out by the end.

 

In these new HM 55s, there are definitely pulls where getting some HoTs rolling on the tank are a big help, but can backfire and send aggro to the healer before the tank can get enough aggro (esp Guardians now that they have no anti-cc ability!). There is one particularly nasty pull in, I think, Mando Raiders, where a crapton of mobs come out a side hallway.

 

Tanks have one job, get and keep aggro. If they can't do this then they can expect criticism.

 

Of all the ridiculous over-simplifications in this thread, this one really stuck out. Tanks have to manage threat, but they also manage the bulk of the mechanics, plus a lot of their mitigation comes from being effective with their rotations

 

Same goes for healers. It's not a game of whack-a-mole and never running out of force or ammo or or energy or whatever.

 

Actually, this is exactly what healing feels like for me. What am I missing?

[Wallach]

In these new HM 55s, there are definitely pulls where getting some HoTs rolling on the tank are a big help, but can backfire and send aggro to the healer before the tank can get enough aggro (esp Guardians now that they have no anti-cc ability!). There is one particularly nasty pull in, I think, Mando Raiders, where a crapton of mobs come out a side hallway.

 

That's definitely Mando Raiders. It's the metallic hallway with the kolto tanks on the sides; I know because it was the first 55 HM I got when I started queuing for them and I spent most of that pull bouncing between 20-30% life with the help of Kolto Overload.

 

The biggest lesson I've learned from the 55 HM FPs is that dogs are the most powerful beings in the SW universe.

[SlimsPicken]

Did a healer die before you as the tank? Your fault.

 

Did you die before the healer? The healers fault.

 

Did dps die? DPS are dumb.

[branmakmuffin]

Blame the guy who declined your ninja invite!

[BewBo]

 

Of all the ridiculous over-simplifications in this thread, this one really stuck out. Tanks have to manage threat, but they also manage the bulk of the mechanics, plus a lot of their mitigation comes from being effective with their rotations

 

Lol it's hardly *********** rocket-science.

Edited April 22, 2013 by BewBo

[Syas]

Lol it's hardly *********** rocket-science.

 

No, but it isn't nearly as faceroll as non-tanks seem to believe.

[VacoVenator]

If a player sucks at tanking, there is a pretty good chance they would suck at healing or DPS. If they suck at healing, same goes for tanking or DPS. If they suck at DPS, well, they should be spending their time doing something else. Bottom line don't blame the roll, blame the player.

 

Either they are new and need practice or they suck and need ridicule.

[Kilora]

If a player sucks at tanking, there is a pretty good chance they would suck at healing or DPS. If they suck at healing, same goes for tanking or DPS. If they suck at DPS, well, they should be spending their time doing something else. Bottom line don't blame the roll, blame the player.

 

Either they are new and need practice or they suck and need ridicule.

 

Meh, I disagree with your reasoning, but agree with your bottom line :-D

 

Yes, you should blame the player -- and not assume all DPS have the same issues. Unfortunately, with the MMO "Trinity" -- we can expect similar issues to pop up in certain roles.

 

As far as what they suck at -- I'm HORRIBLE with tanking. In fact, I'm down-right terrified to tank, so I don't get the practice I need. I'm definitely not the best healer in the world -- but in all of the MMOs I've played, healing was always my choice, and I've never gotten complaints about it. DPS I just find boring -- so I rarely want to do it.

 

There are definitely people in every spot along the spectrum of good/bad. And I don't think their performance with one role hints much to performance in another.

[HaoZhao]

I've only had one experience where I really spent an entire FP shaking my head at the tank. A couple of days ago I queued up for Boarding Party and found myself in a group featuring a tank who had bad gear for characters in their mid level 20's. I was the healer in this group and every time an enemy breathed air in his direction, he went down to 1/4 HP and I had to frantically try to keep him alive. Most of the time, he didn't even bother to let me recover all of my force after a battle and just ran toward the next mob while I was recovering.

 

I can't speak for all healers, really, but I'm pretty sure most of us don't appreciate this. If you're going to join the queue finder as a tank, then you had better be prepared to take some real punishment. No one needs a tank who dies after 3 seconds without non-stop healing.

[NoFishing]

Tanks have one job, get and keep aggro. If they can't do this then they can expect criticism.

 

Actually, they have three. You missed the second, which is to mitigate the damage of everything they have aggro on with spec, gear, and defensive CDs when necessary. The third is to position enemies correctly and face them the correct direction. These other two jobs are just as important as keeping aggro.

[Blackavaar]

Blam! Blam! Blam blam blam! Blam! BLAM!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, I gotta go. It's blamming in here.

 

[Kilora]

Actually, they have three. You missed the second, which is to mitigate the damage of everything they have aggro on with spec, gear, and defensive CDs when necessary. The third is to position enemies correctly and face them the correct direction. These other two jobs are just as important as keeping aggro.

 

I don't even tank -- ever. And I know tanks do a lot more than just stand there and taunt :-D

 

I think it's like waitressing. Everyone should be required to waitress before ************ about them -- just as everyone should be required to tank before ************ about them (at least to some extent -- there are always extreme cases).

[HaoZhao]

You guys who don't think we know about tanking, just don't know what you're talking about. We know how to tank because when tanks aren't doing their jobs, WE end up tanking instead.

 

Great example: I ran Mandalorian Raiders recently with a tank who didn't know how to tank. Myself and a DPS sorcerer in the group ending up with so many mobs attacking us because the tank just didn't know how to aggro. For 80% of the boss fight with the Jedi Knights, I, the healer, was tanking the entire battle. I somehow managed to be consistently pummelled and keep myself alive. Everyone gave me compliments for that, including the party's real tank who played the battle as DPS.

 

Like I said before, if you don't know what you're doing, then queue up as DPS. Don't queue up as tank.

[tanerb]

tank is the most difficult position to play but also tank's mistakes are easily seen. the biggest mistake I see is tank concentrating on the main mob and not doing anything else. this works when there is one or two elite but if there are 3( a good example maybe boarding party end fight or the bonus fight with 2 droids) it can be tough. As a dps what I do in these cases is to jump on the guy who is attacking to the healer and run to the tank. And then hope he sees it and takes the aggro.

[Throki]

If the tank dies it's the healers fault. If the healer dies it's the tanks fault. If the dps dies it's their own fault.

[Jedlosson]

Tanks have one job, get and keep aggro. If they can't do this then they can expect criticism.

 

That is not always possible, if both dps will attack different npc without regard to not-overaggo and one of them manages to break at least one CC, they will easily overaggro same geared tank. That is there the third rule applies: "If a DPS dies, they messed up."

 

If the tank dies, its the healer's fault.

If the healer dies, its the tank's fault.

If a DPS dies, they messed up.

 

Also keep in mind that is is NOT tanks job, to keep aggro from ALL the mobs in the hostile group. Only the elite and champion ones (and strong ones too if the hostile group configuration allows it).

Edited April 22, 2013 by Jedlosson

[Akash]

You guys who don't think we know about tanking, just don't know what you're talking about. We know how to tank because when tanks aren't doing their jobs, WE end up tanking instead.

 

Great example: I ran Mandalorian Raiders recently with a tank who didn't know how to tank. Myself and a DPS sorcerer in the group ending up with so many mobs attacking us because the tank just didn't know how to aggro. For 80% of the boss fight with the Jedi Knights, I, the healer, was tanking the entire battle. I somehow managed to be consistently pummelled and keep myself alive. Everyone gave me compliments for that, including the party's real tank who played the battle as DPS.

 

Like I said before, if you don't know what you're doing, then queue up as DPS. Don't queue up as tank.

 

Mando is a difficult instance to tank in 3 or 4 spots. As a healer, you're just going to have some agro here unless you have very good dps that picks up what slips the tank. And if nothing slips the tank you will probably have a dead tank if he is level appropriate. Mando is about DPS taking the pressure off the tank and the healer.

[Wallach]

Mando is a difficult instance to tank in 3 or 4 spots. As a healer, you're just going to have some agro here unless you have very good dps that picks up what slips the tank. And if nothing slips the tank you will probably have a dead tank if he is level appropriate. Mando is about DPS taking the pressure off the tank and the healer.

 

If it's the 4v4 style fight in Mando Raiders, the Knight jumps around randomly anyway. You can't really tank him.

[SithLordJakin]

More often than not, when I heal and things go south, this is why. Sure, tanks screw up too, but generally I'm getting pummeled by lower-level enemies...which invariably means that a DPS dropped the ball.

 

This^ I have both a Main tank and DPS. I have seen both happen, but mostly its the DPS fault for not taking the lower enemys out.