Stop always blamming the tank!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Andryah]

I will blamm whomever I damn please at a time of my own damn choice.

 

If blame need be issued... it would be more objective to blame the party(s) responsible... including yourself when appropriate.

[Khevar]

If blame need be issued... it would be more objective to blame the party(s) responsible... including yourself when appropriate.

I could be mistaken, but I believe Aelaias was poking fun at the typo in the thread title: "blamming"

[Uvirith]

On my assasin who is a tank most of the time when anything goes wrong it is blame the tank well when i am a tank it is usualy the healers fault so stop always blamming it on the tank when the dps aren't haveing nearly as hard of a time.

 

If this post is an indicator, the tank is definitely to blame...

 

Oh, and as a tank myself over the last 18 years I can tell you, playing a good DD is harder than playing a good Tank...

Edited April 22, 2013 by Uvirith

[MajikMyst]

tanks in this game need to get over themselves...

 

I care to dicker!! It is always the healer that leaves a group.. Typically on the last boss.. I have had it done to me a number of times..

 

Healers need to get over themselves big time!!

[adormitul]

dps do it also but nobody seems to care since they are replaced so easily.

[Kilora]

Some people will blame the tank or healer first -- mainly, when they're inexperienced or are trying to cover up their own mistake.

 

Sometimes, it really is the tank/heals fault.

 

Getting into a HM Athiss the other day, as a healer, our tank ran ahead of everyone else, aggroed a mob, died, and then left the group. Clearly, the tanks fault. 2 of us hadn't even zoned in yet, and he was dead.

 

First HM 55 I ran, I was plopped into a group in progress, working on the bonus boss of whichever one has the elevator (bonus boss is on left at top of elevator) -- I'm bad with names >.<

 

We wiped. 2 times. Each time, I apologized, because it was my fault. I had gotten so used to over-gearing all of the content I was running, that I was quite rusty. After wipe two, I politely said "Would you mind skipping? If anyone isn't ok with skipping, I have no problem dropping out so y'all can get a healer who can handle this. Sorry again!"

 

They all agreed to skip it. No anger, no blame -- because I knew my mistake, and owned up to it.

 

Many times, I've wiped because DPS didn't bother to attack in the right order. Or they weren't putting out anywhere near the DPS they should've been, and the boss enraged. Etc. etc.

 

TL;DR - EVERY role makes mistakes. Sometimes, the mistake is lack of knowledge or an honest mistake. Other times, the person is just a moron. Role has nothing to do with it -- it's on a person-by-person basis. I prefer not to "blame" unless the person has a nasty attitude and/or is blaming someone else for his obvious mistake.

[danielearley]

Can we stop with the Crap about DPS picking up the weaker mobs, that is the tanks job! The DPS Job is to kill them not to tank and kill them.

 

If most tanks weren't so intent on killing the elite and actually tanked we would have better tanks.

[Kilora]

Can we stop with the Crap about DPS picking up the weaker mobs, that is the tanks job! The DPS Job is to kill them not to tank and kill them.

 

If most tanks weren't so intent on killing the elite and actually tanked we would have better tanks.

 

Have you done the 55 HMs? EVERY run I've been in that has gone smoothly, has involved the DPS burning down the regular strength mobs.

 

You don't have to tank them if you're actually a decent DPS. Takes like, 2-3 attacks for them to be dead. As a HEALER -- I can kill them in 4 casts.

[Jilisipone]

Can we stop with the Crap about DPS picking up the weaker mobs, that is the tanks job! The DPS Job is to kill them not to tank and kill them.

 

If most tanks weren't so intent on killing the elite and actually tanked we would have better tanks.

 

It IS the tanks job to TRY and get agro on them if they are within AOE agro range of the gold/silver mobs. However, 80% of the time the normal/weak mobs are ranged DPS that stand 10-15 meters away from the core tanking mobs and simply are not in melee range of the tank on those mobs. In that scenario, it IS the DPS job to 2 shot them and remove them from the equation. The DPS should only be taking 1 or 2 hits from them at the most, which MAY drop them to 85-90% health.

 

This isn't WoW or other MMO games where 80% of the mobs are all melee and will run to the tank for grouping them nicely. The NPCs in SWTOR are 80% of the time ranged and spread out which makes it almost impossible for a tank to pick up one of them (assuming it's PT or Assassin that can pull them in).

 

As to the OPs comment.....my experience is that most PuGs will have someone to blame for issues. Sometimes it's my fault as the tank (and I accept those), sometimes it's the healer just not healing pro-actively, sometimes its the DPS not doing their job or not doing enough DPS to beat enrage. Hate to say it, but chances are if you are always getting blamed by multiple different random PuG groups.....you probably are doing something wrong, or you are just VERY unlucky with PuG groups. Even with PuGs you'll run into competent ppl 33% of the time at least.

[Eldrenath]

the only reason i no longer stop tanks from guarding me when I'm healing in pve is not because of threat reduction. its because of damage reduction. because I know that almost invariably, dps will not pick up all the weak mobs, so something WILl be pounding on me. that damage reduction might not seem like much but its good enough to give me just enough breathing room to survive long enough for everyone else to start paying attention again.

 

that said. if there's a gold pounding on me? I WILL blame the tank.

 

I always thought that guard reduced aggro but did not reduce damage in PvE--it only redirects damage from players, not from mobs. Am I wrong on that? I could be, but the description makes it look like it only reduces incoming damage from other players.

[Never_Hesitate]

I always thought that guard reduced aggro but did not reduce damage in PvE--it only redirects damage from players, not from mobs. Am I wrong on that? I could be, but the description makes it look like it only reduces incoming damage from other players.

 

There is a 5% dmg reduction which applies for both, but the 50% dmg split is only for pvp.

 

What is important as well is that the 15 m range only apply to the dmg split and not to the 5% dmg reduction and 25% aggro reduction

[Wallach]

Can we stop with the Crap about DPS picking up the weaker mobs, that is the tanks job! The DPS Job is to kill them not to tank and kill them.

 

If most tanks weren't so intent on killing the elite and actually tanked we would have better tanks.

 

No. The way this game's pulls are designed, it very much is the job of DPS to go and kill the weak and often out-of-position mobs on their own. Often times at least one of the weak mobs is in an optimal tanking position and that's usually handled by the tank, but part of the reason DPS classes have a bunch of free CCs against weak mobs on their attacks is for this very purpose. Not only that, but weak targets have an extremely high damage:health ratio compared to other trash mobs and actually NEED to be eliminated first to draw down incoming damage on your tank at the outset of each pull.

 

No tank should need to waste threat and resources trying to corral 2-3 weak mobs that are nowhere near the silver/gold targets when DPS can very easily eliminate them without risk while the tank is still initiating on the larger targets.

 

This is one of your fundamental tasks as a DPS class and if you aren't doing this, you're doing the easiest job in the game wrong.

[tausser]

I blame Canada.

[Syas]

Can we stop with the Crap about DPS picking up the weaker mobs, that is the tanks job! The DPS Job is to kill them not to tank and kill them.

 

If most tanks weren't so intent on killing the elite and actually tanked we would have better tanks.

 

You are wrong.

[Icebergy]

Words to live by:

 

If the tank dies, its the healer's fault.

If the healer dies, its the tank's fault.

If a DPS dies, they messed up.

 

This is almost always true, unless the tank or healer who died was standing in fire.

[Jedlosson]

On my assasin who is a tank most of the time when anything goes wrong it is blame the tank well when i am a tank it is usualy the healers fault so stop always blamming it on the tank when the dps aren't haveing nearly as hard of a time.

 

All of my main characters are tanks, I have never been blamed for tanking badly in cases when it was not justified. Are you sure you do not do anything wrong while tanking on those occasions?

 

If the tank dies, its the healer's fault.

If the healer dies, its the tank's fault.

If a DPS dies, they messed up.

 

This is great description to tanking. Short, yet precise.

Edited April 22, 2013 by Jedlosson

[Eldrenath]

No. The way this game's pulls are designed, it very much is the job of DPS to go and kill the weak and often out-of-position mobs on their own. Often times at least one of the weak mobs is in an optimal tanking position and that's usually handled by the tank, but part of the reason DPS classes have a bunch of free CCs against weak mobs on their attacks is for this very purpose. Not only that, but weak targets have an extremely high damage:health ratio compared to other trash mobs and actually NEED to be eliminated first to draw down incoming damage on your tank at the outset of each pull.

 

No tank should need to waste threat and resources trying to corral 2-3 weak mobs that are nowhere near the silver/gold targets when DPS can very easily eliminate them without risk while the tank is still initiating on the larger targets.

 

This is one of your fundamental tasks as a DPS class and if you aren't doing this, you're doing the easiest job in the game wrong.

 

I agree 100%. That's an excellent point about damage output to health ratio. The bottom line is it's a waste of threat resources for a tank to corral these--decent DPS can down them in a matter of seconds, often in 1-3 hits. It's silly to say that that puts DPS in a "tanking" position on weak mobs--DPS should be killing trash mobs so fast that they only have to deal with them for a few moments. If the tank grabs silver/gold enemies and DPS drops the trash very quickly, the healer can do their job efficiently and with minimal interruption from attacking mobs.

[Jacen_Starsolo]

Get over dying and shrug it off! Dying in a game happens.

 

Tanks will complain even when they don't die. I was on a healer in a FP. Near the end and not one death the entire run. Tank starts a vote kick because "my heals were not good enough". With zero deaths up to that point? WHAT? Tanks just complain to complain.

[Kilora]

Words to live by:

 

If the tank dies, its the healer's fault.

If the healer dies, its the tank's fault.

If a DPS dies, they messed up.

 

This is almost always true, unless the tank or healer who died was standing in fire.

 

Unfortunately, there are FAR too many edge-cases to this.

 

Tank could easily die because DPS are morons and pulled, or because he's undergeared, or because he made a stupid pull.

Healer could die because healer wasn't paying attention to their own health. Or because healer broke CC.

DPS could die because tank doesn't know what taunt is. Or guard. Or if healer is spacing out.

 

What you said is a crude way to put it, but a decent generality. Although, I myself could be a lone edge-case -- more often than not, none of the three in your post hold true in my groups.

[Never_Hesitate]

Tanks will complain even when they don't die. I was on a healer in a FP. Near the end and not one death the entire run. Tank starts a vote kick because "my heals were not good enough". With zero deaths up to that point? WHAT? Tanks just complain to complain.

 

There will always be idiots out there and it isn't bound to the role.

[Akash]

This game has a bit of a twist on tanking, in that it is the job of DPS to pick up the weak mobs while the tank focuses attention on the hard hitters. If there are multiple "strong" mobs then DPS should go head and try and cull out one or two of those as well, as half a dozen strong mobs beating on a tank results in four of those strong mobs beating on a healer when the healer has to pump the tank full of heals in a short amount of time. This is especially true when most of the longer-lasting CC in a group is of the kind that can only be used out of combat.

[BewBo]

Tanks have one job, get and keep aggro. If they can't do this then they can expect criticism.

[Akash]

Tanks have one job, get and keep aggro. If they can't do this then they can expect criticism.

 

Fortunately, this game isn't quite so cut and dried on that tidbit. On boss fights with a single boss, you would be correct. But in multiple mob situations, the tank will have to choose on which mobs to maintain agro, and DPS will have to pick up the weak stragglers.

[Never_Hesitate]

Tanks have one job, get and keep aggro. If they can't do this then they can expect criticism.

 

whilst the dps have the job not to pull aggro (at least not from a strong/silver or above) if they fail at this, because "lol, look at my crits and dmg meter" they are just bad dps and you can't expect a tank to hold aggro from several mobs while the dps have split up and everyone hits his own mob

Edited April 22, 2013 by Never_Hesitate

[BewBo]

Fortunately, this game isn't quite so cut and dried on that tidbit. On boss fights with a single boss, you would be correct. But in multiple mob situations, the tank will have to choose on which mobs to maintain agro, and DPS will have to pick up the weak stragglers.

 

Well obviously. Everyone in the group has their role. Including a tank who should know his bizniz. As long as this is the case then it's one big happy family.