[Guide] Sage DPS (TK + Balance) 2.0+

[theRaiders]

My apologies. I am on The Shadowlands and I just updated that on Torparse. I forgot to change that when i switched lol =p

 

You need to get even higher now as I have a 3k dps parse =p

 

Wow, nice man! Can you link it? What was your crit % of the fight?

 

Also do you have 72s-75s mix? I just got to full 72 myself.

[Kindran]

Wow, nice man! Can you link it? What was your crit % of the fight?

 

Also do you have 72s-75s mix? I just got to full 72 myself.

 

Torparse: http://www.torparse.com/a/385473/1/0/Damage+Dealt

AMR: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/3a6724d5-7695-4624-b94d-34bb47e5abad

Edited August 18, 2013 by Kindran

[varietasplus]

I beg your pardon if this has already been asked, but this thread is quite long already.

Suppose the no crit/alacrity theory was right, am I the only being extremely unhappy about the exchangable gear for Underworld commendations? Apart from a rare power/surge combination, all other are either crit and/or alacrity combinations, therefore useless. As far as I know there are no other classes with such terrible gear setup and it costs a fortune to minmax to gear properly.

Has there been any requests made towards Bioware to fix it or even any responds from them regarding this issue?

Edited August 27, 2013 by varietasplus
Grammar correction

[Cessorei]

Hello Nibbon, hello everybody,

 

big thanks for the guide Nibbon!

 

I've a question about this sentence "keep WM up, MC off cooldown, turbulence off cooldown, tk wave off proc, TT on proc, fill with disturbance."

 

What does particularly "off" cooldown, "off" proc and "on" proc means?

Can someone help? (I couldn't find a german translation and sorry if there is already between the 36 pages the explanation...i haven't read all pages )

 

Thanks in advands for the help.

Greetings

[SWCelion]

Hoy

 

"off cooldown" means earlier after the CD becames up again => Turbu up, don't cast a disturbance it'd be a mistake, cast your turbu if WM is on the target and has more than 2s still, unless go WM if you're not clipping it, unless go disturbance if there's nothing else up.

 

"on prok" means the earlier you can without breaking any priority rule. The TT prok buff lasts few seconds, you must use it asap. If you loose the buff or gain another one without using TT, it's a loss.

 

"off prok" means nearly the same thing, but the TW prok lasts way longer. The only danger is to cancel it with another one (which can't happen 10s after the first prok). There'll be some fights where you can't use it (don't break CCs, don't DPS this mob, etc...), it's sad, but it's the rules

 

 

I'd say it like that :

Turbu (if more than 2s of WM on target) => MC => WM (don't clip it) => TT when it proks => TW when it proks => Disturbances.

 

This may look simple like that, but there's tricky situations. You must practice

[Nibbon]

Hello Nibbon, hello everybody,

 

big thanks for the guide Nibbon!

 

I've a question about this sentence "keep WM up, MC off cooldown, turbulence off cooldown, tk wave off proc, TT on proc, fill with disturbance."

 

What does particularly "off" cooldown, "off" proc and "on" proc means?

Can someone help? (I couldn't find a german translation and sorry if there is already between the 36 pages the explanation...i haven't read all pages )

 

Thanks in advands for the help.

Greetings

 

Other covered it but thought I'd restate it too:

Off Proc and On Proc mean nearly the same thing - on proc means when it procs that should be your next ability - off proc means when it procs you should wait for it in your rotation - although I'd say this is not entirely true for this rotation, that would be the meaning. They are really both off the proc.

 

Likewise, off cooldown means when the ability is ready to use. All abilities have cooldowns - like turbulence at 15 seconds, so once the ability is ready it is time to cast it again.

 

So off and on both mean "when this happens, cast it" - the "this" is either when the spell is ready from cooldown or from proccing.

 

I beg your pardon if this has already been asked, but this thread is quite long already.

Suppose the no crit/alacrity theory was right, am I the only being extremely unhappy about the exchangable gear for Underworld commendations? Apart from a rare power/surge combination, all other are either crit and/or alacrity combinations, therefore useless. As far as I know there are no other classes with such terrible gear setup and it costs a fortune to minmax to gear properly.

Has there been any requests made towards Bioware to fix it or even any responds from them regarding this issue?

 

They have stated in the past that the pieces are like this to encourage min/maxing. They have also now stated they are not happy with where crit is at, so I think it is pretty clear they intended for crit to play more of a role than it is.

 

I'm pretty sure our underworld gear has a couple power/alacrity pieces though. I'm guessing you might be talking heals, but, power/accuracy is the hardest to get as it is only on our offhand (this would be for DPS only).

[SWCelion]

I think power / accuracy is also on the legs token for shadows DPS. I can't check it now.

 

I personnally found a guy that can craft both (power / surge and power / accuracy), try it, check GM

 

EDIT :

After a check : the opti power / accuracy is on the OH token or on the legs token (shadow DPS synergy, a waste but must be pointed). the opti power / surge is on the chest token (with the Sage DPS synergy).

 

With last big patch, it's not very hard to get some isotope 5 (toborro vials loots, I'm not sure of the english name). The big cubes can be bought for 500-600k creds on my server, and there's few guys that can craft the opti enhancements. I hardly recommand this way to get the BiS faster

Edited August 27, 2013 by SWCelion

[eavn]

delete the whole thread and just have "Heal to full"

[Kindran]

delete the whole thread and just have "Heal to full"

 

There is enough of this in one particular thread now, and the Devs finally got the point. There is no reason to post something like this in a guide thread so please don't.

[varietasplus]

 

They have stated in the past that the pieces are like this to encourage min/maxing. They have also now stated they are not happy with where crit is at, so I think it is pretty clear they intended for crit to play more of a role than it is.

 

I'm pretty sure our underworld gear has a couple power/alacrity pieces though. I'm guessing you might be talking heals, but, power/accuracy is the hardest to get as it is only on our offhand (this would be for DPS only).

 

 

I intend to have a sage DPS. Apart from the legs and the offhand, every other set-bonus gearpiece has crit and/or alacrity. This means that every mod and enhancement must be replaced. As far as I know, there are no other classes where the exchangable gear is so far away from the optimal. For instance, while for every sentinel set-bonus gearpiece there is a critical/alacrity useless one, at least they have a Weaponmaster and a Partisan set, so you can pick a useful one, whereas for a sage DPS you can not (picking a piece with a different set-bonus should not be an option). So, suppose your were right about the preferred attributes, we can state that the developers had no clue about the maths or the class when they set up the gear.

 

I also find it hard to understand what they mean by saying they are unhappy about the current crit rating. Seriously? Once I became level 55 and saw the diminishing returns of my Dread Guard gear, it only took a minute to realize that for most classes crit had become useless. What kind of designer would not notice it upon temperring with the attributes?

 

Now, onto "encourage min/maxing". This is my first MMO, so please let me know if it works the same way in others as well, becase I honestly find it outrageous. Having trash drops and out-of-balance tokens in a game is like I am making business with someone but I am screwed for I get flawed/incorrect goods. I pay the subscription fee, I am here to have fun not to grind endlessly to achieve my goal. I think being forced to get 14 tokens to max the gear was already a huge increase of time needed compared to the Campaign/Black Hole or Dread Guard era. Either of the latter provided you could do operations with multiple characters at the same time. Now, you can only gear up one toon within reasonable time and cost.

[Aries_cz]

Hello Nibbon, a quick question about Accuracy. I noticed on your AMR build (UW Telekinetics) you have 109.51%. Is this value rounded up by the game (thus making it the required 110%), or is it sufficient to keep at this level for not having any misses on bosses?

[Kindran]

Hello Nibbon, a quick question about Accuracy. I noticed on your AMR build (UW Telekinetics) you have 109.51%. Is this value rounded up by the game (thus making it the required 110%), or is it sufficient to keep at this level for not having any misses on bosses?

 

It is not rounded up to 110%. The reason why other stats are better at this point are due to how much rating is wasted when you equip another accuracy piece. You only get about 60% of the value when you equip another Accuracy piece, and as such is not as much of a dps gain as say equipping a surge or alacrity enhancement.

[Kindran]

I also find it hard to understand what they mean by saying they are unhappy about the current crit rating. Seriously? Once I became level 55 and saw the diminishing returns of my Dread Guard gear, it only took a minute to realize that for most classes crit had become useless. What kind of designer would not notice it upon temperring with the attributes?

 

Every time the level cap increases there will always be huge DRs for the gear. Many people do not realize that each time you hit a new level cap the gear basically resets for you. IE Dread Guard gear was equal or less than level 54-55 quest gear. We expected Crit, Surge, Accuracy and Alacrity would require more rating per % otherwise stats would be insanely inflated. The problem is not that crit rating is bad, but that power just gave more than crit even when we received max returns on crit with low rating.

 

Now, onto "encourage min/maxing". This is my first MMO, so please let me know if it works the same way in others as well, becase I honestly find it outrageous. Having trash drops and out-of-balance tokens in a game is like I am making business with someone but I am screwed for I get flawed/incorrect goods. I pay the subscription fee, I am here to have fun not to grind endlessly to achieve my goal. I think being forced to get 14 tokens to max the gear was already a huge increase of time needed compared to the Campaign/Black Hole or Dread Guard era. Either of the latter provided you could do operations with multiple characters at the same time. Now, you can only gear up one toon within reasonable time and cost.

 

I want to talk about these 3 bold sections.

 

1) You should realize that it is not the end result that is fun, but the journey to get there. If it was extremely easy to get the gear we wanted there would not be as much incentive to raid. MMORPGs are designed to grind. That is a HUGE purpose of this genre.

 

2) Of course the Campaign / Dread Guard era was much faster to get max tier in. All you had to do was craft the end tier pieces.

 

3) One could argue that it is still easy to gear up alts with Legacy gear. Just run raids on your main and send the pieces to your alt.

[varietasplus]

Every time the level cap increases there will always be huge DRs for the gear. Many people do not realize that each time you hit a new level cap the gear basically resets for you. IE Dread Guard gear was equal or less than level 54-55 quest gear. We expected Crit, Surge, Accuracy and Alacrity would require more rating per % otherwise stats would be insanely inflated. The problem is not that crit rating is bad, but that power just gave more than crit even when we received max returns on crit with low rating.

 

Does it really matter in the end why crit became useless for almost each class? How come same problem does not affect surge or accuracy? Simple, crit is flawed by design and hardly there is an excuse for that.

 

 

I want to talk about these 3 bold sections.

 

1) You should realize that it is not the end result that is fun, but the journey to get there. If it was extremely easy to get the gear we wanted there would not be as much incentive to raid. MMORPGs are designed to grind. That is a HUGE purpose of this genre.

 

2) Of course the Campaign / Dread Guard era was much faster to get max tier in. All you had to do was craft the end tier pieces.

 

3) One could argue that it is still easy to gear up alts with Legacy gear. Just run raids on your main and send the pieces to your alt.

 

1) My complaint was not about grinding in general, but grinding in vain. If the gear you can get for your commendations or tokens are flawed by either intention or design failuire, then someone is wasting your time.

 

2) I know it is subjective, but in my oppinion the BH/Camp and the DG era was a better balance. You could make use of your commendations and crafting cost remained reasonable. I doubt 1 million+ credit is acceptable for a single enhancement when you have to replace half a dozen for sage DPS.

 

3) I have nothing against gearing up your alt with your main for it is effective, though it fails your 1).

[Nibbon]

What Kindran said was perfect and I agree entirely. As for these things ...

 

Does it really matter in the end why crit became useless for almost each class? How come same problem does not affect surge or accuracy? Simple, crit is flawed by design and hardly there is an excuse for that.

 

Crit has a cap of 100% - so on a sliding scale, a jump from 32% to 33% is bigger from 33% to 34%. The highest crit can ever reach is 100%. Surge and alacrity have an infinite hard cap (there is no hard cap), but very steep DR curves; that means that the first few points of surge and alacrity are very valuable and the points after that, decreasingly so. Accuracy, as it so happens for Sages, has a cap of 110%, is very easy to reach and has almost no DR curve. Conclusion being, logically, accuracy is the best choice stat - then through math, trial and error, whatever, we can determine the next best stats.

 

Back to crit - crit comes from crit rating and main stat. You therefore can achieve a crit rating purely through one or the other. Main stat also provides damage/heal bonus, so stacking that has proven to be the best based on current stat maximums and DR curves (the DR curve for main stat and crit is getting close to where power will begin to be better, but not yet). Which brings me to the next point, which requires an example:

 

You can hit something for (A) 1000 with 20% crit or (B) 1200 with 10% crit, to use some exaggerated examples. Let's use a steady surge and say the damage is doubled on crit, which again, just for example purposes simplifies this. The end result will be average hit values:

1000 * .8 + 2000 *.2= 1200

1200 * .9 + 2400 *.1= 1320

 

In this example, the higher power is better - which is what we are seeing in live. Now for example sake, let's say our gear improves and we just generally have more power to throw on our gear - the base damage changes and eventually we may end up in this situation ... (A) 10,000 with 20% crit or (B) 10,200 with 10% crit ... I mean you can guess the results without doing the math but you get ...

A = 8000+4000=12,000

B= 9180+2040=11,220

 

Higher crit has now overtaken power. If you have read through the entire guide, you will see I now begin to advise balance sages to take on some crit (150 is optimal). This is because the +bonus damage has reached a point, among all the other factors that affect crits, including surge, that crits value per point has become more valuable, beyond just the obvious DR curve that it has.

 

Maybe a longer more oversimplified answer than you were looking for, but I hope that helps explain the complications with crit.

 

Onto part 2 - what can they do to fix it?

Change the DR curve. Make it much more valuable to invest your first 300 points in crit and make it fall off much larger thereafter. The steeper the curve the curve, the more the developers can actually control the optimal values. I'd venture to guess they will do this.

 

1) My complaint was not about grinding in general, but grinding in vain. If the gear you can get for your commendations or tokens are flawed by either intention or design failuire, then someone is wasting your time.

 

2) I know it is subjective, but in my oppinion the BH/Camp and the DG era was a better balance. You could make use of your commendations and crafting cost remained reasonable. I doubt 1 million+ credit is acceptable for a single enhancement when you have to replace half a dozen for sage DPS.

 

3) I have nothing against gearing up your alt with your main for it is effective, though it fails your 1).

 

1. The comms allow you to get to the tier faster - I then personally use the tokens to gear up my alts. The only thing that really lets you min/max are the underworld tokens. You can also use comms to get certain armorings or mods since they are the same for min/max. So it is all about the enhancements ... here is an example path of what you might do to get everything you need for an absolute min/max as a TK sage kell dragon (probably the hardest to do):

implants, stalker mk-x package x2

ear force-mystic device

wrist - force-master bracer

relics - whatever ... x2

belt - force-master

MH - force-master

OH -stalker

legs - force-master

chest - force-master

 

If you start with this you do not need to replace a single slot ...

leaves you needing to get two of:

force-master head, gloves, or boots to finish set bonus

then mixing in 3 accuracy enhancements and 3 power mods - which is a total of 3 additional pieces outside the regular ones you can buy. If the intent is to force you to min/max a tad - I do not consider 3 pieces alllll that extraneous. And I am talking min/max here - without min/max you are only putting yourself 5-50 DPS lower - which if you are a good enough player doesn't make or break you getting into NiM raids.

 

Lower tiers are a bit harder since you need an extra accuracy enhancement, but that is just one more enhancement (that can now be crafted for you).

 

 

2. You didn't have to worry about accuracy then, so the dynamics shifted a lot.

Edited August 28, 2013 by Nibbon

[Kindran]

Does it really matter in the end why crit became useless for almost each class? How come same problem does not affect surge or accuracy? Simple, crit is flawed by design and hardly there is an excuse for that.

 

Crit is not a flawed design, power just give you more bang for its buck. It is as simple as that and crit is not useless. Accuracy is needed to hit the boss, and generally speaking surge is better than alacrity. Why is that I wonder? It is not because Alacrity is bad, but Surge just gives you more bang for your buck.

 

The difference between a power mod / enhancement and a crit mod / enhancement is about 3-5 dps per piece in a mathematical parse. The difference in Surge and Alacrity is also about the same. Crit and Alacrity are not bad, we just have other choices which give us more bang.

 

 

1) My complaint was not about grinding in general, but grinding in vain. If the gear you can get for your commendations or tokens are flawed by either intention or design failuire, then someone is wasting your time.

 

2) I know it is subjective, but in my oppinion the BH/Camp and the DG era was a better balance. You could make use of your commendations and crafting cost remained reasonable. I doubt 1 million+ credit is acceptable for a single enhancement when you have to replace half a dozen for sage DPS.

 

3) I have nothing against gearing up your alt with your main for it is effective, though it fails your 1).

 

1) Tokens are not flawed, you just perceive them that way because you want the best of the best. You need to spend time in order to get that. I am glad it does not take a week to get BiS gear. It is simple really, commendations give highest tier, low quality where tokens give highest tier, good quality. Excluding Kel Dragon as you cannot buy those with commendations.

 

2) It was better for you because you wanted to obtain gear easily. Instant Gratification one might say. If you want the best gear you should work for it. Once people get the best gear, what would be the purpose of most people playing?

 

3) Not really sure what you are saying for this point tbh.

Edited August 28, 2013 by Kindran

[Aries_cz]

It is not rounded up to 110%. The reason why other stats are better at this point are due to how much rating is wasted when you equip another accuracy piece. You only get about 60% of the value when you equip another Accuracy piece, and as such is not as much of a dps gain as say equipping a surge or alacrity enhancement.

It is a question of augments. I presently have 2 Accuracy augments that boost me to 110,20%, and I would like to know if replacing them for willpower augments would incur possible miss chance on applying dot or ability.

[Nibbon]

It is a question of augments. I presently have 2 Accuracy augments that boost me to 110,20%, and I would like to know if replacing them for willpower augments would incur possible miss chance on applying dot or ability.

 

You should never use accuracy augments because willpower augments will get you more value point for point. In other words, the only thing you should ever be trading off for accuracy are the other enhancement stats, surge and alacrity.

 

Yes, at 109.51% accuracy you have a chance to possibly miss on applying a dot or ability, but think of it this way ...

you will only miss 49 out of 10,000 attacks, which includes dot ticks. Even if you miss a single large attack, the extra stats that you get from lower your accuracy should make up for it (a higher average hit, for example).

[Firebyrde]

I've tried to read every single post in this thread and want to make sure a couple points are clear. I understood that for a dps (TK) sage the goal is 110% Accuracy, but when I said as much in answer to a question someone had last night, pretty much the entire server said that no, 110% is overkill for dps. Did I misunderstand?

 

The other point I sorely need cleared up is what the surge cap is. Some people say 70%, some 75%. Which is correct?

 

Thanks in advance, I've puzzled over these questions and researched for a few hours now.

Edited August 28, 2013 by Firebyrde

[Cessorei]

Thanks for the answers SWCelion and Nibbon!

Greetings from Germany.

[namkcas]

As to Crit...didn't the Devs recently say that they are unhappy about where it is today and it is likely to change?

[JDotter]

You should never use accuracy augments because willpower augments will get you more value point for point. In other words, the only thing you should ever be trading off for accuracy are the other enhancement stats, surge and alacrity.

 

Yes, at 109.51% accuracy you have a chance to possibly miss on applying a dot or ability, but think of it this way ...

you will only miss 49 out of 10,000 attacks, which includes dot ticks. Even if you miss a single large attack, the extra stats that you get from lower your accuracy should make up for it (a higher average hit, for example).

 

Can you go into more details? I'm a big fan of the accuracy augment plan as is most of my guild to get as close to the 110% as possible and can't see giving up what I gain swapping to WP.

 

 

http://i.imgur.com/5NVkk84.jpg?1

(your build path #'s)

 

Accuracy 109.86%

Crit % 25.12

Surge % 71.83

Bonus DMG 1581.5 (6197 FL)

 

 

 

 

http://imgur.com/yavFOkh

(mine)

 

Accuracy 110.07

Crit % 25.98

Surge % 73.79

Bonus DMG -1546.6 (6080 FL)

 

 

I could go under 110% and do this

 

http://imgur.com/BZalSVF

 

Just don't understand mainly the crit/surge (bloodthirst/adrenals/relic/auto crits) 100 more base DMG (92 under accuracy %)

 

Clarification appreciated

[Nibbon]

As to Crit...didn't the Devs recently say that they are unhappy about where it is today and it is likely to change?

 

Yes, so I would expect a change here in the next few weeks/months. When that happens I will update the guide, but since I don't know what the change will be, this is the best I can advise towards for now.

 

Can you go into more details? I'm a big fan of the accuracy augment plan as is most of my guild to get as close to the 110% as possible and can't see giving up what I gain swapping to WP.

 

I've tried to read every single post in this thread and want to make sure a couple points are clear. I understood that for a dps (TK) sage the goal is 110% Accuracy, but when I said as much in answer to a question someone had last night, pretty much the entire server said that no, 110% is overkill for dps. Did I misunderstand?

 

The other point I sorely need cleared up is what the surge cap is. Some people say 70%, some 75%. Which is correct?

 

Thanks in advance, I've puzzled over these questions and researched for a few hours now.

 

Milas/Fire - I think those are the same questions, but truthfully, you are making me go into one of those excruciatingly small details, the difference between the two builds is probably rather small (find out for yourself, I have made the excel model publicly available).

 

the simple answer is that bonus damage has proven through modeling to be the strongest stat. So 40 bonus damage is probably pretty significant - and whatever that translates to on each separate attack.

 

I've already explained why WP is better than getting over 110% accuracy in my previous post. But again, any drop over 110% accuracy is an absolute waste, it doesn't amplify damage. The tradeoff is pretty small between most stats as is, but when you are wasting any percent of a stat in a single slot, especially 20%, it is pretty indisputable that something else should go there. 110% accuracy is a hard cap, going over doesn't make sense.

 

Now really, that still leaves the questions of going up to but not over 110% (in the case of ... full campaign I think? my recommendation is 109.51%). The answer is the same as always - average hits. In an average scenario/sample you will get a higher parse than an average sample of a different stat.

 

"But I just tested it 5 times and got worse results!!!" That is how statistics work, the stat difference is so close that random samples could explain that. If 1000 sages did this test, we would get a better sample and probably find a result closer to the truth/math.

 

As for the surge cap (just clarifying so you don't think I'm beating the accuracy dead horse), there are no stat caps on any stat except accuracy. The stats are on a curve - and no curve goes perfectly horizontal without an impossible amount. So the question is, when does the curve distribute less than any of the other tradeoff curves - and that was exactly the point of my modeling.

 

Just don't understand mainly the crit/surge (bloodthirst/adrenals/relic/auto crits) 100 more base DMG (92 under accuracy %)

 

This is a kind of different question, but it has a similar answer - average hit.

 

with the numbers you gave me 6080 and 6197

base hit numbers surge 7379 and 7183

actual base hits of 3498 and 3606

average hit weight of crit 25.98 and 25.12

average hits of 1579.584+ 2589.2196 and 1556.6864 + 2700.1728

gets you ... 4168.8036 and 4256.8592

with the accuracy hit of 0% and .14%

is 4168.8036 and 4250.900

 

So again, the higher bonus damage is hitting, with or without crit, on average, higher than the lower bonus damage with higher surge and crit %.

 

As for the blood thirst, adrenals, relics - all those will only exacerbate the difference between the two, so it isn't worth doing the math (when one damage is higher than the other, the absolute difference will get larger when multiplied).

 

The last thing is auto crit, and it is difficult to examine it, but I can tell you that I don't need to. If the base damage one is critting for a higher amount of damage (which makes sense that it is) than the more autocrit you have, the less non-autocrit you'd actually need since you would hit more with the lower crit value.

 

 

Hope that helps...

Edited August 30, 2013 by Nibbon

[Firebyrde]

As for the surge cap (just clarifying so you don't think I'm beating the accuracy dead horse), there are no stat caps on any stat except accuracy. The stats are on a curve - and no curve goes perfectly horizontal without an impossible amount. So the question is, when does the curve distribute less than any of the other tradeoff curves - and that was exactly the point of my modeling.

 

I guess the point of what I was asking is to ask why I would want to get 1 alacrity implant instead of run with 2 surge/power implants, if at the moment I am running with your suggested 5 accuracy and 4 surge and 0.00% Alacrity from gear as a TK Sage. So, logically why not go for something which, as you say has no cap instead of something I've never needed more of? I will refer to this thread although I'm afraid I don't quite understand it but it regards the diminishing returns of surge.

Edited September 2, 2013 by Firebyrde

[Nibbon]

I guess the point of what I was asking is to ask why I would want to get 1 alacrity implant instead of run with 2 surge/power implants, if at the moment I am running with your suggested 5 accuracy and 4 surge and 0.00% Alacrity from gear as a TK Sage. So, logically why not go for something which, as you say has no cap instead of something I've never needed more of? I will refer to this thread although I'm afraid I don't quite understand it but it regards the diminishing returns of surge.

 

That thread illustrates a very narrow view of arbitrarily placing soft caps on things.

 

Observe: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/oimg?key=0AgCWcFAbOaZwdDZ2YVBnY3BocnA2dTg2d0xxWWNBZ2c&oid=4&zx=l1kpjvprg677

 

That was a graphic i did for healing but it illustrates the point. There are two curves for heal, surge and alacrity. If you had 0 of both stats, you would invest in surge first because those are better. Then there is a point where surge diminishes to the point where the added benefit is less than alacrity. You would then invest into alacrity. Eventually, it is possible, that alacrity would fall back under surge - this might happen in future tiers. The point where the two lines cross is where you will switch back from alacrity to surge, once more (simplified truth). You switch from surge to alacrity when surge's benefit dips from the benefit of the first alacrity enhancement.

 

The end result is you take alacrity a lot sooner than you would if you go by an arbitrary "soft cap" that doesn't really exist.