Guide to Bioware Logic in PvP

[LingeringDrama]

 

Do Everyone a favor and remove Bolster from Level 55 PvP.

 

So True! Bolster has NO place in 55 PVP.

 

 

Oh yeah, while I'm here... After you have done the right thing and removed the bolster system from level 55 pvp war zones... Can we start season one?

[midianlord]

SWTOR will be around for a long time.

 

Perhaps so, but in what form?

 

There are a lot of pure Pay-to-Win messes out there (Battlestar Galactica Online, if what I've been hearing is true. Does anyone remember Black Prophecy, by the way?), that have been around a while, and I expect that they'll stay around for a while longer, but is that the type of game you really want to play?

 

Especially in a PvP context? (Because, at the risk of being flamed hard, I submit that Pay-to-Win doesn't matter for PvE hardly at all --predictable NPC AI is always predictable, after all, and SW: tOR's boss-fights are, for the most part, fairly simple, if not always easy.)

 

No arguing taste, but....That's not something I ever want to get within a country light-year of, nor do I want to see it happening to a game that, against all my inner EVE-O vet hardened cynic's preconceptions and advice, I have come to enjoy, love, and play almost constantly, warts and all.

 

TL/DR:

 

The "Overlords" have a proven track-record of destroying games-companies that they take over in just this manner, and have been quite successful at it. I don't trust them to not do this here --it's worked very well for them, after all (RIP Origin Systems )-- and there is nothing that shows me that they won't eventually, if SW: tOR starts haemorrhaging subs again because of this latest farce.

[LadyKohastFel]

You know I started to type something of a long post but then I realized there is no need for that considering how big of a moron your are. Just a waste of my time. 2 points:

 

1-We care about BW taking a dumb over PVP's by making the system 1 way. Only PVE can do PVP with 1 gear but we can't go to raids.

2-PVE gear actually ending up better in PVP then PVP gear... That or so close the difference is irrelevant.

 

I seriously wander what morons like yourself would say if 1 day they make PVP gear > PVE gear for PVE.

 

You can be free to think its about our inability to crush *******es like yourself.

 

If the difference is irrelevant then it is by definition a level playing field and the sole deciding factor of PvP matchs will be the skill of the individual players and how well they can coordinate their efforts, the days of someone in elite war hero gear effortlessly owning a player in PvE or recruit gear are over and players are pretty evenly matched. That said a person in green level 50 gear will still be an easy kill, but someone in underworld gear will be a formidable opponent who is not to be trifled with, and the PvE gear is not that hard to obtain (of course if you are skilled you can do more things to get ultimate comms & unassembled pieces, but a average skilled player will be able to get their verpine gear eventually)

 

And more PvEers becoming at least part time PvPers is good for the game, you will have shorter queues for warzones and more opponents, this is a great step forward for the popularization of PvP in SWTOR which has been broken since day 1, And I am not afraid of PvP , I regularly PvP in games like global agenda, WoW and Guild Wars, I just steered clear of SWTOR since I saw that the system was fundamentally broken up until now and winning against a gimped opponent brings me no satisfaction whatsoever, but that has changed now and I am looking forward to seeing how the dynamics of PvP will change now that the playing field is level.

Edited April 19, 2013 by LadyKohastFel

[Azarai]

Just keep an eye on this site if you have questions about the trends for server population:

 

http://www.torstatus.net/

 

It's a pretty good tool to keep an eye on especially if you belong to one of the servers that appear to already be lacking in population.

[Cephim]

/signed

[Raansu]

Bolster is a fine idea. If you don't think so, it means you want to squash undergeared players like bugs instead of having competitive pvp.

 

No, what people want is for high end pve gear to not be efficient in pvp just like pvp gear is not efficient for pve. The entire point of a pvp stat is the separate pve and pvp. Giving expertise to pve players is a slap in the face to pvp players. BW needs to make a decision to either normalize all stats and have a default gear set for everyone when they enter a WZ thus removing the gear grind (i.e. how GW2 does it) or remove bolster from 55 pvp. No matter how bladly BW wants to have both worlds, they can't have it. It just simply does not work that way and they need to pick one or the other. Personally I'm fine with either as long as if they go the normalization route that we get decent rewards like mounts or character customization for WZ/empty shells for pve use etc...

 

With that said, I completely understand bolster for lowbies and have no problem with it there, but it has no place in 55 pvp.

[Kenjigreat]

No, what people want is for high end pve gear to not be efficient in pvp just like pvp gear is not efficient for pve. The entire point of a pvp stat is the separate pve and pvp. Giving expertise to pve players is a slap in the face to pvp players. BW needs to make a decision to either normalize all stats and have a default gear set for everyone when they enter a WZ thus removing the gear grind (i.e. how GW2 does it) or remove bolster from 55 pvp. No matter how bladly BW wants to have both worlds, they can't have it. It just simply does not work that way and they need to pick one or the other. Personally I'm fine with either as long as if they go the normalization route that we get decent rewards like mounts or character customization for WZ/empty shells for pve use etc...

 

With that said, I completely understand bolster for lowbies and have no problem with it there, but it has no place in 55 pvp.

 

This:rak_03:

[latinochillin]

Props to the OP, couldnt agree more.

 

Ill be 100% ok with bolster when they add it to pve, but otherwise how fair is that? if hardcore PvErs can now walk into a WZ with no pvp gear and get good buffs, then why cant hardcore Pvpers with no PvE gear go run some of the hardest ops and hms? im all for a more even pvp, but some sort of gap needs to exsist (again doesnt have to be huge) or there is no real gear grind. This gap doesnt need to be as big as EWH vs. recruit was and i hope it isnt, but again if the pvp gear barely helps, why grind it. For any PvErs that disagree, id love to see bolster added to hms or ops and see how much fun your gear grind and experiences are. Then come back and talk about bolster, we will see where you stand

 

Excellent post ^^^

[Kenjigreat]

Does anyone still really have faith that Bioware can do bolster right?

[buddafx]

They will when people start unsubscribing. I am currently on the edge, waiting to how the next patch will fold. If it does not resolve PvP current problems, I guess that's it for me.

 

Check this

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=628728

[SuperGrunt]

Im sure everyone has read the Dev's Tracker post on why they changed bolster, and honestly its a stupid move.

 

The idea was that Recruit Vs Elite Warhero had a huge gear gap , which is true.

 

Recruit Stats are typically for a dps/healing

 

HP: 13-15k

Bonus Dmg: 300-400

Critical Chance (Buffed): 25%ish

Surge: 68%ish

Expertise: 1000+

 

and Elite Warhero Minmaxed for a typical dps/healing class

 

HP:18-20k

Bonus Dmg : 600-700+

Critical Chance (Buffed) : 28-35%

Surge : 76-80%

Expertise:1218+

This created 1 problem

 

A Recuited geared team vs a War Hero/ Elite War Hero Team => Dead Recruits.

Partially due to the fact that someone in recruit gear has less experience in PvP.

 

 

 

Now comes Bolster, the solution to all our problems.(SUPPOSEDLY)

 

Anyone on the Public test server when it first launched can tell you that Bolster was horrid with 900k HP sins running around and 600K sentinels smashing people . That issue has been resolved

 

But we run into 3 More Issues that overlap with one another.

 

1) Naked Bolster and 2) Enhancement-Removal Bolster and 3 )Supercharged PvE gear in Warzones.

 

1) Naked Bolster needs no introduction , Strip naked and you can get 2k Expertise FREE

 

2) Enhancement-Removal Bolster is basically Removing Enhancements from your gear to give you better stats through the bolster system.

 

3) And lastly Supercharged PvE gear which im sure alot of PvPers are angry about , which is the fact that Underworld gear would rape in PvP and even more so when paired with the removal of enhancements for extra stats and expertise.

 

And thats not the worst part , the worst part about the new bolster system is that it KILLS Gear progression in PvP and gives no incentive for PvPers to progress their gear.

 

What they needed to do was to fix that 1 problem which was people in Best in Slot PvP gear have way better gear than the people who are just starting out in PvP.

 

And the solution is simple. Every Partisan piece is slightly worse than Conqueror Pieces . Just make another tier for FREE , Without Com/Credit cost and give it to EVERYONE and make it slightly worse than Partisan.

 

The real problem of Patch 1.7 was the when they removed Battlemaster from the equation instead of Recruit gear when they introduced Elite War Hero, they created a gap Resulting in

 

Elite War Hero(Veterans) > War Hero >>>> Recruit(Newbies)

 

when they should have thrown Recruit gear out the window and give everyone free Battlemaster and made it

Elite War Hero > War Hero > BattleMaster.

 

Do Everyone a favor and remove Bolster from Level 55 PvP.

 

While I agree with a good portion of what you are saying here, the problem with it is that you are assuming that the Bolster system will grant BIS PVE better stats than BIS PVP gear, which BioWare has stated is not the case. You just don't currently have BIS PVP gear that widely distributed as PVP gear takes longer to get than PVE gear does.

[Naej]

Bolster is a fine idea if it worked as intended. Unfortunately The mess we have is all due to horrible planning, testing and implementation. If they can't get it right, maybe it's time to roll back and tweak the old system until real solutions can be found.

 

Come on, are you suggesting they released content that wasn't ready? You are going a bit far bro! (not)

 

[Tallyhoe]

Ok, so bolster is fine in peoples eyes(PvErs). And the PvPers are cry babies. But the PvPers, can't go and be fully optimal in hardmode operations, yet the PVERS come in with 7% less PVP damage, but roughtly 800 more of your main stats.. And its fair. Interesting. I got heatseeker missled by a merc for 13k damage and he had 0 PVP gear.

[AdmiralParmesan]

Bolster is a fine idea if it worked as intended. Unfortunately The mess we have is all due to horrible planning, testing and implementation. If they can't get it right, maybe it's time to roll back and tweak the old system until real solutions can be found.

 

I agree with this

[Kenjigreat]

While I agree with a good portion of what you are saying here, the problem with it is that you are assuming that the Bolster system will grant BIS PVE better stats than BIS PVP gear, which BioWare has stated is not the case. You just don't currently have BIS PVP gear that widely distributed as PVP gear takes longer to get than PVE gear does.

 

Did you not read my post , you can get 35k HP 1.4k Techbonus Dmg and 2k Expertise with PVE gear taking out enhancements . Not BiS totally.

[Devlonir]

The real problem of Patch 1.7 was the when they removed Battlemaster from the equation instead of Recruit gear when they introduced Elite War Hero, they created a gap Resulting in

 

Elite War Hero(Veterans) > War Hero >>>> Recruit(Newbies)

 

when they should have thrown Recruit gear out the window and give everyone free Battlemaster and made it

Elite War Hero > War Hero > BattleMaster.

 

Do Everyone a favor and remove Bolster from Level 55 PvP.

The problem with this suggestion, is F2P players.

 

You talk about reading Dev posts, but you clearly missed the one explaining why Recruit MK3 wouldnt have solved PVP disparity around 1.7. Battlemaster is purple gear, and a Recruit set on Battlemaster level would be well beyond what blue gear allows to have at those item levels, and therefore make Recruit MK3 by far the only gear set F2P players will ever need to do anything (and therefore remove the need for them to unlock purple gear, and through that hurt Bioware's income).

 

This would repeat itself again after a new level cap and a new second set of PVP gear. And to avoid repeating the same mistakes and avoiding the same limitations of the past, they made a system where everyone, even F2P players, will have a certain level of efficiency in a warzone.

 

Because really.. who wants to go into a warzone with even one undergeared player? That was one of the most common complaints pre 1.7. And that problem no longer exists thanks to Bolster.

 

Is the system perfect? Heck no! But it sure is better than what we had, with less limitations.

[Devlonir]

They don't even have to hand out actual pieces, just bolster every non partisan or conqueror piece to exactly this level, be it underworld or questing green

 

And this indeed.. This would completely fix Bolster.

 

They said now they can see what PVP gear is because there are only 2 PVP sets left. Identify all items with Expertise as PVP gear and don't touch their stats. Every other slot just needs to be given the exact number of stats as just below Partisan would have, regardless of actual stats on the item (maybe only check if it's a end or main stat heavy item, and which secondary stats there are), and make that entry level PVP.

 

Though they haven't said it specifically yet, it does seem they may be going that way now that they removed EXP from War Hero gear. So, let's see what is actually going to be announced for the patch of tomorrow.

[Kenjigreat]

The problem with this suggestion, is F2P players.

 

You talk about reading Dev posts, but you clearly missed the one explaining why Recruit MK3 wouldnt have solved PVP disparity around 1.7. Battlemaster is purple gear, and a Recruit set on Battlemaster level would be well beyond what blue gear allows to have at those item levels, and therefore make Recruit MK3 by far the only gear set F2P players will ever need to do anything (and therefore remove the need for them to unlock purple gear, and through that hurt Bioware's income).

 

This would repeat itself again after a new level cap and a new second set of PVP gear. And to avoid repeating the same mistakes and avoiding the same limitations of the past, they made a system where everyone, even F2P players, will have a certain level of efficiency in a warzone.

 

Because really.. who wants to go into a warzone with even one undergeared player? That was one of the most common complaints pre 1.7. And that problem no longer exists thanks to Bolster.

 

Is the system perfect? Heck no! But it sure is better than what we had, with less limitations.

 

 

-_- F2Pers are only allowed to PvP on a very limited basis , they could have made Recruit Mk-3(BM) Blue. And don't lie to yourself , Gear Disparity still exist thanks to PvErs doing removal enhancement glitches and people having 22k hp vs a PvEr with 30+k hp as a dps , the only exception is the gear disparity is created by glitching the system not working for gear and yea thats something awesome to promote right , Glitchers.

[dannycarr]

Its all well and good giving people the free gear, but the amount of people that wouldn't wear it pre 2.0 was stupid. At least with bolster everyone in the WZ has decent enough stats to compete, without relying on the noob players having to think about wearing specific pvp gear.

 

I always used to /w people pre 2.0 who were in questing greens or pve gear, and all I got back is abuse. At least now I don't have to worry about peoples gear in a WZ which would put us on the back foot from the offset.

[Kenjigreat]

Its all well and good giving people the free gear, but the amount of people that wouldn't wear it pre 2.0 was stupid. At least with bolster everyone in the WZ has decent enough stats to compete, without relying on the noob players having to think about wearing specific pvp gear.

 

I always used to /w people pre 2.0 who were in questing greens or pve gear, and all I got back is abuse. At least now I don't have to worry about peoples gear in a WZ which would put us on the back foot from the offset.

 

So we are encouraging people to act retarded . Nice.

[AlrikFassbauer]

People weren't smart enough to even get Recruit, let alone put it on.

 

Some even sold it.

Other threw it away, because it didn't give them any benefit in PvE.