2.0 Hardmode Flashpoints are not worth the payout.

[Jeweledleah]

I just have to say one thing.

 

"find a guild and stop pugging!"

 

as if a guild tag somehow magically makes players better and content - easier.

 

news flash, majority of the people you get in random pugs? they wear guild tags.

 

whether flashpoints are too hard or too easy or something in between depends on who's judging. but guild is not some magical fix to the difficulties someone might be having.

[Radzkie]

I just have to say one thing.

 

"find a guild and stop pugging!"

 

as if a guild tag somehow magically makes players better and content - easier.

 

news flash, majority of the people you get in random pugs? they wear guild tags.

 

whether flashpoints are too hard or too easy or something in between depends on who's judging. but guild is not some magical fix to the difficulties someone might be having.

 

Actually it is... for some, at least.

 

If you're in a guild, and you pay attention to the people in it, you'll know who is competent and who is not(*if* there's any who aren't). Then you can choose do your HMs with the good ones. Since 2.0 hit, I have not wiped in a HM 55 FP with my guildies, and I've done many.

Edited April 20, 2013 by Radzkie

[Pantaro]

So its been a week of doing these new hardmodes and without question they need to be fixed. The cost of repairs, time, and effort level vs the payout is beyond off scale. These are the current problems as i have seen so far. feel free to add what i may have missed.

 

1. Bosses drops BLUE gear really? And dont hold your breath but a whooping 2 elite tokens . what is the point. If i can craft the level of gear given is too low.

 

2. Boss difficulty levels are set too high, perhaps they were set for pts when we all had full gear but no one does now, for example the wookie in cademimu spawns so many death trolls so fast it is near impossible to beat. the heat beam in hammer station cause so many wipes everyone quit. Both times i got que no we did not make it past the first boss.

 

3. Repair cost are tooo high to make the 10k payout at the end worth anything. The last run caused 5 wipes at a cost of 23k per wipe. so to do this flashpoint and get 0 gear from it i spent over 100k in repairs.

 

4. The overall payout for the vs the cost of gear per tokens if the gear goes from 80-140 tokens per item the payout is just not worth the repair bills or time.

 

i love flashpoints but if they cause more stress then fun i do not see any reason to do them at all. Doing a raid has a far better payout with less cost in repairs.

 

i actually agree about the gear drops but...

 

Ran a bunch with half of the progression ops team im on for the record i'm a healer.

As far as the wookie goes tank aggroed what he could one of our dps kited the adds around it worked fine for us.

 

The heat beam in hammer station I can definitly tell you is not a problem being im the healer at stacks of 3 or 4 i cleanse it my tank never dies.

 

But for the most part I do agree with your point of view,i ran them a bunch of times havent got one useful thing yet as we are a progression OPS group we love a challenge but your right its really not worth the extra challenge for a whole lot of nothing.

 

When i did run it with pugs yea it was bad usually.....i think you had bad groups who didnt know the fights personally

But your point is definitly vaild

[sumuji]

Tiny problem with that. The mechanics are almost the same as in the sm fp, FPs that are meant for players between levels 15 and 30. As such saying that they require operation type tactics is silly at best, insulting to anyone that has ever done ops at worst.

If you are not faced with the simplest of tank and spank fights you will always wipe, if you do not know the mechanics of it.

 

 

As for poor rewards. The last time I checked, the last and bonus boss drop ops level gear.

 

Yeah. they obviously did a little more than increase the HP and damage of those low level flashpoints when they converted them into lvl 55 HM. While it's not near the diffculty of a operation it did add some op like mechanics that weren't present in lvl 50 hardmodes.

 

And if you run in PUGs regulary you can understand why people are saying there's a lot of wiping and such going on. I don't think it would ever become a genrerally known thing to do such in such in a particular boss fight. You still get a big influx of people new to lvl 50 FP even to this day. Add the fact that lvl 55 FP are new to a lot of even more people and you can kinda see why threads like this exist. The latter might be corrected over time but you'll still be faced with a constant barriage of people that don't know what to do in the new ones.

Edited April 20, 2013 by sumuji

[Arlbo_Nabbins]

Ok then why have the tanks not be tanks?? I suffer more dmg 10 times over now than I ever had before! If they allowed tanks to be tanks, I wouldn't have such a problem with the new hardmodes. But dying from trash mobs hitting too hard is a big problem. And its because of this fact that more and more people quit being tanks and switch to dps.

 

No you don't suffer 10 times as much damage now, another exaggeration from you methinks. Of course if you really are taking that much damage then you are woefully undergeared for tanking.

[GuruVII]

Yeah. they obviously did a little more than increase the HP and damage of those low level flashpoints when they converted them into lvl 55 HM. While it's not near the diffculty of a operation it did add some op like mechanics that weren't present in lvl 50 hardmodes.

 

The only new mechanic I can think of is the snare on the last boss in candemimu and the bonus bosses, which more or less hit hard and fast and can be done as long as you don't stand in stuff.

[cjakubow]

I agree with the OP. The new flashpoints are not worth the effort. They either need to be easier/faster or the rewards need to be jacked up significantly. I mean come on, people just want to get their daily/weekly done. I don't want to stand around while people set up CC on every pull and kill trash bosses with a million HP and 2-3 mechanics I have to be aware of. Save that crap for Operations.

 

These things might be easy for high level raiding guilds who coordinate on voice chat and are used to working together. Pugging these things are a goddam nightmare. I wouldn't mind the difficulty so much if I wasn't looting such awful stuff. 2 item levels higher than level 50 flashpoint gear? Really?

 

It has gotten to the point that I don't even want to play anymore. It's not that it is too hard, it is the time commitment. The sheer weight of considering all the stuff I am going to have to do just to gear up makes me want to just do something else.

[Khevar]

...

 

It has gotten to the point that I don't even want to play anymore. It's not that it is too hard, it is the time commitment. The sheer weight of considering all the stuff I am going to have to do just to gear up makes me want to just do something else.

This sort of attitude mystifies me. What exactly were you expecting from an MMO?

 

Run a few flashpoints DING all 69 gear. Run some a few ops DING all 72 gear. Then what? Come to the forums and complain there is nothing to do?

 

These sorts of things take time because the developers designed them to take time, so that people would continue playing the game longer.

[chuixupu]

I'll say it again, people are just not aware of the mechanics. I've been pugging the flashpoints, as long as there is someone there to explain to people how they have changed since Story mode (which is usually me at this point), it's all very easy. Too easy, even. I've already learned all the tips and tricks to make some bosses a faceroll. There are two bonus bosses where you can stand in a place and not take damage. The last boss in Hammer Station's attacks can be sidestepped by even the tank.

[Monoth]

People got to use to face rolling lvl 50 HM FP's with Black Hole Gear, now all of a sudden with the lvl 55 HM FP's they can't just drop a few AOE's and wipe out all the mobs... Gotta slow it down and CC and play smart.... Edited April 21, 2013 by Monoth

[GuruVII]

I still don't see the problem. I'm using the same tactics I learnt between levels 15-30, when I did these FPs on sm, when I levelled my first character and for 30 of minutes of play, I get commendations and with luck a piece or two of ops level gear. Edited April 21, 2013 by GuruVII

[GarfieldJL]

I'm actually getting irritated by the lack of tanks, I don't mind tanking once in a while, but seriously I don't like how the only way you can get in a group quickly these days is to tank...

[remohunta]

Im a tank on my server run the New flash points all day long I think they are fun and super easy. I like hard carrying undergeared people cause in the end 2 pieces of 69 purple modded gear drops. The better geared randoms get the easier it will be in the long run.

 

Also a great way to min max your gear. I hardly ever die or wipe so repairs are small and the payout is fine.

[darkov]

Took less than two weeks to get a full set of Elite from pugging these, the 55 HM Flashpoints are fine.

[Andryah]

I'll say it again, people are just not aware of the mechanics. I've been pugging the flashpoints, as long as there is someone there to explain to people how they have changed since Story mode (which is usually me at this point), it's all very easy. Too easy, even. I've already learned all the tips and tricks to make some bosses a faceroll. There are two bonus bosses where you can stand in a place and not take damage. The last boss in Hammer Station's attacks can be sidestepped by even the tank.

 

This has been my experience as well.

 

It seems to me the people struggling and complaining are trying to blind-bash the encounter. HMs have specific mechanics to them.... just like instances in most MMOs. If you fail to know the mechanics and actually work the mechanics.. you are doomed.

[xorcist]

So its been a week of doing these new hardmodes and without question they need to be fixed. The cost of repairs, time, and effort level vs the payout is beyond off scale. These are the current problems as i have seen so far. feel free to add what i may have missed.

 

1. Bosses drops BLUE gear really? And dont hold your breath but a whooping 2 elite tokens . what is the point. If i can craft the level of gear given is too low.

 

2. Boss difficulty levels are set too high, perhaps they were set for pts when we all had full gear but no one does now, for example the wookie in cademimu spawns so many death trolls so fast it is near impossible to beat. the heat beam in hammer station cause so many wipes everyone quit. Both times i got que no we did not make it past the first boss.

 

3. Repair cost are tooo high to make the 10k payout at the end worth anything. The last run caused 5 wipes at a cost of 23k per wipe. so to do this flashpoint and get 0 gear from it i spent over 100k in repairs.

 

4. The overall payout for the vs the cost of gear per tokens if the gear goes from 80-140 tokens per item the payout is just not worth the repair bills or time.

 

i love flashpoints but if they cause more stress then fun i do not see any reason to do them at all. Doing a raid has a far better payout with less cost in repairs.

 

Yeah, I can see your argument. I have no issue with what you're saying.

[Asavrede]

I agree the 55 HMs give too poor loot. There is basically no chance for any of the minibosses to drop anything useful for a group that can do them - the blue gear is a joke.

 

That said, they are not that hard, but they are quite time consuming, so there should be a decent payoff. personally I think 1 exotic stabilizer thingy is too little. The old HMs dropped 1 crafting component too, but that was when crafting decent items actually only TOOK one of them - now anything good takes 4.

 

Also, I've been doing these with guild groups which make them quite easy - but once or twice I've used group finder for random groups and we have wiped a lot. Considering repair costs now, they are really not for pickup groups and that is just ... fail, for something that is supposed to be entry level endgame content.

Edited April 21, 2013 by Asavrede

[jersyiii]

So its been a week of doing these new hardmodes and without question they need to be fixed. The cost of repairs, time, and effort level vs the payout is beyond off scale. These are the current problems as i have seen so far. feel free to add what i may have missed.

 

1. Bosses drops BLUE gear really? And dont hold your breath but a whooping 2 elite tokens . what is the point. If i can craft the level of gear given is too low.

 

2. Boss difficulty levels are set too high, perhaps they were set for pts when we all had full gear but no one does now, for example the wookie in cademimu spawns so many death trolls so fast it is near impossible to beat. the heat beam in hammer station cause so many wipes everyone quit. Both times i got que no we did not make it past the first boss.

 

3. Repair cost are tooo high to make the 10k payout at the end worth anything. The last run caused 5 wipes at a cost of 23k per wipe. so to do this flashpoint and get 0 gear from it i spent over 100k in repairs.

 

4. The overall payout for the vs the cost of gear per tokens if the gear goes from 80-140 tokens per item the payout is just not worth the repair bills or time.

 

i love flashpoints but if they cause more stress then fun i do not see any reason to do them at all. Doing a raid has a far better payout with less cost in repairs.

 

1 ) the elite tokens give u better gear, if u do 1 week of fp's u can buy one 1 piece of good gear ... fair enough i guess

2) learn 2 play, the heat beam u talk about can be cleansed, if ur healer doenst cleanse it then its not our problem ... not evrything has to be piss easy, sometimes u even have to use ur brain while doing something

3) this is total ********, i'm full arkanian now on my tank. when my gear is fully at 0% (thats at least 5-6 wipes) then i have 35k repair costs

4) again : not evrything has to be thrown in ur lap, do some effort for it

Edited April 21, 2013 by jersyiii

[CKHelseth]

Ok then why have the tanks not be tanks?? I suffer more dmg 10 times over now than I ever had before! If they allowed tanks to be tanks, I wouldn't have such a problem with the new hardmodes. But dying from trash mobs hitting too hard is a big problem.

 

The patch altered shield/absorb to mitigate more damage. Damage reduction is about the same. Defense is lower but with the increase to shield/absorb effectiveness it is pretty much a wash.

 

The mobs in these HM 55 fps do hit very hard. The pulls require the tank to taunt and hold multiple mobs (even with CCs) and as result eat a lot of damage. This means that healers have to be ready at the start of pulls to pour on the heals, bubble, etc. As result DPS need to focus their attacks to ensure they don't pull a mob. They also need to use their stuns and interrupts as often as possible. For tanks it means we are using our defensive cool downs on these pulls (several per FP). I am using them liberally and on cool down if need be. It is a big change from pre-2.0 when I never needed to use them outside of OPs bosses.

 

They are a challenge yes. My usual group started in our 61-63 gear with a bit of Basic thrown in. It took a bit to remember the pulls, extra spawns and tactics. We CC'd everything we could to make the fights more manageable. There were wipes but we fine tuned our tactics. Wipes are rare now (though a certain pull on Mando is easy to screw up). As gear has improved we are speeding up our runs and the boss are more an issue for the boredom involved in burning down their massive health pools than any real risk of dying.

 

As we switch to alts we are finding the 61-63 gear to be a minor issue as it is the tactics that are keeping us alive more than anything. Sure tank takes a beating but that is managed and we progress.

Edited April 21, 2013 by CKHelseth

[thomasbaxter]

Yup, the hardmode FPs are rubbish and the level 50s ops are gone from GF when u hit 55. I've been kicked from the 2 level 55 ops because nobody wants to wipe and i've no time to get a group to do ops. They need to fix the entire group finder layout soon.

[spectreclees]

I really don't understand why they launched RotHC with so few flashpoints and with terrible loot. If you do not do the bonus boss you only get 1 piece of decent gear from the FP.(If it even drops for you.)

[XuShaBi]

I just have to say one thing.

 

"find a guild and stop pugging!"

 

as if a guild tag somehow magically makes players better and content - easier.

 

news flash, majority of the people you get in random pugs? they wear guild tags.

 

whether flashpoints are too hard or too easy or something in between depends on who's judging. but guild is not some magical fix to the difficulties someone might be having.

 

Playing with your guildmates changes the attitude. When in pugs, you may tend to find people to give less respect or decency to care about the rest of the group. It's the mentality that you being mean to strangers won't cost you anything. You may say being guilded or not with these people wouldn't make a difference. Based on experience, the chances are it does. I had a guild mate who played less recklessly when he knew I was in the same guild compared to a time when we were in a pug and I was on an alt which wasn't guilded yet.

Edited April 22, 2013 by XuShaBi

[Zsavooz]

Yup, the hardmode FPs are rubbish and the level 50s ops are gone from GF when u hit 55. I've been kicked from the 2 level 55 ops because nobody wants to wipe and i've no time to get a group to do ops. They need to fix the entire group finder layout soon.

 

Indeed. They game is worse than it was. It's so bad, I think I'm done. What a waste of time.

Edited April 22, 2013 by Zsavooz
eat it

[Zsavooz]

Playing with your guildmates changes the attitude. When in pugs, you may tend to find people to give less respect or decency to care about the rest of the group. It's the mentality that you being mean to strangers won't cost you anything. You may say being guilded or not with these people wouldn't make a difference. Based on experience, the chances are it does. I had a guild mate who played less recklessly when he knew I was in the same guild compared to a time when we were in a pug and I was on an alt which wasn't guilded yet.

 

that is stupid. My guild sucks more than I do. Playing with a Pug gives me a better chance. Problem is the new HM FP's are geometrically harder then the original HM FP's. If you can even get a 55 Pug, which is almost impossible, you will wipe. The only place to get Elite Comms is in these FP's, so if you continue to wipe you never get them and never advance your gear past basic crap comms. Honestly, this game has become **** on rye, poor and lazy design and a game which will become quickly forgotten once others arrive.

Edited April 22, 2013 by Zsavooz

[canuckly]

Sorry to hear your bad experiences but the payout for me has been worth it in the last 2 weeks im only 2 pieces from full black market minus the offhand and main hand

 

hate to sound like an elitist but people need to learn to play these and not go into these with columni gear