The Doomed Sith Empire

[Euphrosyne]

Partly out of Bane's philosophical disgust with the Brotherhood of Darkness which came before him (and really was a rather pathetic bunch of nincompoops), and partly due to the practical concern of remaining hidden from the Jedi - the more people who belong to the Sith Order, the more know about it and could potentially let slip its ongoing existence.

Seems to me like it's reaching a bit to describe the Brotherhood as a "pathetic bunch of nincompoops". Kaan's Empire established control over something like a third of the settled galaxy. He dominated the Hutts, something that even Palpatine's Empire was hard pressed to do. Not for nothing is the end of the second millennium BBY described as the "fall of the Republic": governing institutions collapsed, armies were attenuated, centralized authority declined to a dramatic degree. And then, when Kaan launched his killing strike, the initial stages of the Ruusan campaign were very well managed. Yeah, after that, things started to fall apart, but they were falling apart for everybody: the Army of Light was nearly as bad off as the Brotherhood forces on the planet by the Seventh Battle.

 

This isn't an apologia for Kaan and the Brotherhood; they obviously made mistakes, just like everybody else. It's more that the description of them as pathetic and idiotic is an ex post facto justification by people who take Bane at his word. Fundamentally, Darth Bane destroyed one of the most powerful dark side forces in galactic history over a fit of pique, and replaced it with...actually, he didn't replace it at all, he just decided to hide. That doesn't necessarily make Bane a bad Sith Lord; he was out for himself, just like every other would-be Overman. But it does make it silly to attribute the survival of the Sith as an institution to the man who almost destroyed them. And it makes it even more silly to say that Bane had a hand in Palpatine's success a millennium later.

[SaChang]

I only have one question.. Since we all know that in the end the Republic wins the war according to the story and lore. Could it be that an alternate outcome actually has the Imperial's win the war ???

[Faerieheart]

I only have one question.. Since we all know that in the end the Republic wins the war according to the story and lore. Could it be that an alternate outcome actually has the Imperial's win the war ???

 

There's a lot of time between now and the other comics, books and movies.

 

While yes the empire will lose eventually. There's always the possibility they will win for a good long while at least.

[kEs_Ha]

Okej i know alot of republicans here seems to think that the empire will fail due to its very own foundationa (the stron role the weak etc......). But its precisly this that makes the empire strong. A sith who survives his training in koriban is much more stronger and more cunning then your avrege jedi. Sith citisens are trained from birth to be good solders to follow orders to the letter (like nazi germany). their entire society revolves around order and diciplin. When the sith dont fight the republic they fight eachother but now all that has changed..........

[Highborne]

Seems to me like it's reaching a bit to describe the Brotherhood as a "pathetic bunch of nincompoops". Kaan's Empire established control over something like a third of the settled galaxy. He dominated the Hutts, something that even Palpatine's Empire was hard pressed to do. Not for nothing is the end of the second millennium BBY described as the "fall of the Republic": governing institutions collapsed, armies were attenuated, centralized authority declined to a dramatic degree. And then, when Kaan launched his killing strike, the initial stages of the Ruusan campaign were very well managed. Yeah, after that, things started to fall apart, but they were falling apart for everybody: the Army of Light was nearly as bad off as the Brotherhood forces on the planet by the Seventh Battle.

 

This isn't an apologia for Kaan and the Brotherhood; they obviously made mistakes, just like everybody else. It's more that the description of them as pathetic and idiotic is an ex post facto justification by people who take Bane at his word. Fundamentally, Darth Bane destroyed one of the most powerful dark side forces in galactic history over a fit of pique, and replaced it with...actually, he didn't replace it at all, he just decided to hide. That doesn't necessarily make Bane a bad Sith Lord; he was out for himself, just like every other would-be Overman. But it does make it silly to attribute the survival of the Sith as an institution to the man who almost destroyed them. And it makes it even more silly to say that Bane had a hand in Palpatine's success a millennium later.

 

Hmm, again, yes and no. One thing that the Ruusan lore established pretty firmly (at least as I read it) is that Kaan was, for all his strength in the Force and his charisma, a fundamentally weak and fearful person. And the Brotherhood - Kaan's Brotherhood - were only extant for a couple of decades, right at the tail-end of the Republic Dark Age which had lasted centuries or millennia. They weren't exactly taking the Republic on at the height of its power, after all.

 

On a more organisational note, the Brotherhood had one absolutely critical flaw: everyone in it was tied to the leader, and not to each other. While Kaan was able to conceal his weakness, this worked just fine - but the moment he started cracking under pressure, things quickly went to hell. And frankly, I accept that - on a practical level - Bane had few choices but to write off the Brotherhood and go into hiding. He wasn't the lord of star systems, he didn't command the allegiance of thousands of people to either take to Ruusan or flee into exile with, and he didn't have access to a superweapon that could turn the tide.

 

What choice did Bane have but to go into hiding?

 

I only have one question.. Since we all know that in the end the Republic wins the war according to the story and lore. Could it be that an alternate outcome actually has the Imperial's win the war ???

 

We, as the players of SWTOR, are presently at 3,642 BBY - 3,642 years prior to the Battle of Yavin (aka Episode IV). The Empire may well win this round, and destroy/fragment the Republic, send the Jedi into hiding and otherwise rule the roost for a good many years to come. All that we know is that by about 2,000 BBY the Sith of the day had fragmented several times, that for the next thousand years several Sith rump-states coexisted, competed and feuded with each other, the Republic and various Jedi protectorates and that in 1,000 BBY, the last of the old Sith Order was destroyed in the Seventh Battle of Ruusan.

[Lord_O_Death_Joe]

Angral tried the Tython thing already. Didn't end well.

 

And it's not like making the assault force larger would help things. From an operational standpoint, a major offensive directed at the world would be sort of lunatic, because of its position in the Deep Core, far from Imperial bases, and at the end of an easily closed hyperlane. Send a battle fleet toward Tython and the Republic would do the same thing the GA did to the Vong at Ebaq 9.

 

Also, if you think that destroying Tython will put paid to the Jedi Order, you've got another thing coming.

 

Fundamentally, Marr's basic plan as elaborated at the end of Chapter 4 is more or less sound, in theory. It's pretty much the only Imperial medium-term strategy that doesn't have "this is insane and stupid" written all over it. Fall back to the more important systems, stop the overextension and the bleeding, and try to bleed out the Republic in defensive battles while playing Micawber, waiting for Wunderwaffen or a major Pub disaster or the Miracle of the House of Brandenburg or something. 'Something will turn up'.

 

Of course, relinquishing the initiative is generally a bad thing, and given the Republic's superior resources it's very easy to see a situation where the Empire can't get it back again, and bleeds off the Pubs while still taking heavy losses of its own, the sort of attritive calculus that it is guaranteed to lose. You can get trapped in that sort of circumstance very, very easily. But the alternative is much, much worse. Marr explicitly states that he picked the slow death that at least gave the Empire a puncher's chance of maybe potentially turning things around. Leaving troops and ships in extended positions throughout the galaxy would be a disaster. Even Napoleon was smart enough to try to cut his losses with his forces deep in Russia in 1812, although he waited too late to try and his army ended up taking it on the chin anyway. Jiang Jieshi wasn't, and because of that the National Revolutionary Army was pretty much eviscerated in 1947-48 in Manchuria. In related news, Jiang's Guomindang were forced to flee the mainland for Taiwan one year later in one of the fastest reversals of fortune in the annals of human military history.

 

---

 

I have to wonder about the claims of Republic 'corruption' and 'democracy' being severe detriments to its warfighting ability. Generally speaking, the character of a regime - democratic, authoritarian, whatever - has historically not meaningfully affected military effectiveness. Institutions matter, yes, but specific military and economic institutions are what have mattered, not whether the inhabitants are "citizens" or "subjects".

 

There are plenty of counterexamples for this, too. Take the Second World War. Hitlerite Germany, a more or less authoritarian state, suffered from insane divisions of resources and a weakened military that was ultimately destroyed by the combined actions of the authoritarian Soviet Union and the more or less democratic United States, Commonwealth, and associated powers. Imperial Japan's authoritarianism did not aid it meaningfully against the same array of democratic and undemocratic powers. There are plenty of other examples - Rome against the Makedones and the arche Seleukeia, Israel against the Egypt of Jamal 'Abd al-Nasir, Britain against Napoleon, Venice against the Byzantine Empire, and so on.

 

This is not to say that democracy is a check-box that automatically guarantees a win. There are plenty of democratic states and societies that have lost wars against their ideological opponents. Athens was defeated by Sparta (the first few times, anyway). The nascent French Third Republic lost out to Prussia and its allies. America lost the War of 1812 to the slightly less democratic British. Yes, of course. The point is that ideology does not determine military power. Whether the Republic or the Empire wins this war, the victors will not be the victors because of the ideological basis of their political system.

 

"Corruption" is a more difficult thing to discuss. It's hard to contest the notion that the Republic does have to deal with corruption, although it's frequently more told (by people like Harron Tavus) rather than shown (e.g. by quests). It's hard for me to countenance the idea, however, that the Republic's "corruption" is a more debilitating factor than the Sith Empire's variant. The Republic's version of corruption means that perhaps supplies aren't delivered properly, or that troops are positioned to defend objectives based on nonmilitary considerations, or things like that. The Empire's version of corruption means all that as well - because no society in history has ever eradicated that kind of corruption - plus random brushfire civil wars. Even the barest glance at Dromund Kaas, the Imperial capital world, shows evidence of multiple fratricidal conflicts: Baras against Vowrawn kicking off the slave rebellion, Hadra against the rest of the Empire, Grathan against everybody, and Lord Tytonus' invasion. Corellia was even worse, with Baras, Vowrawn, Thanaton, and the SI all facing off with each other in various combinations, and those were only the major players.

 

So if you claim that the Republic will lose because of its "corruption", that's just selective blindness, an eye conveniently closed to the nuclear [poop] bomb of "corruption" going off on the Empire's side.

 

---

 

Of course, none of this stuff really matters; the war will end in the way that it eventually ends because the writers choose to have it play out that way, not because of specific military concerns. Militarily, it made little sense for a tiny backwater tinpot dictatorship to be able to overrun large swaths of the galaxy in the first war, but that didn't stop the writers. And if you want the Empire to win because you have a hard-on for xenocidal racist authoritarian theocratic societies based on a foundation of slavery, fictional or otherwise, then hey, that's your own affair. (Or if you think the stories are more entertaining on that side. Or whatever. You get the idea.) It's just, you know, you think the Empire should win because you like it better.

 

^ This = thread.

Besides, from a game standpoint, I doubt they'll really finish off the Empire's chances until they intend to close the game, if then. You don't alienate theoretically 1/2 your base for the sake of following a storyline with reasonable strategic conclusions, if as a writer... you do that anyways.

[DarthAeonis]

Well we did win makeb and from the looks of it Darth Marr has a plan up his sleeve that will put us back on top... i sense a shift in the tides... and i think the emperor's wrath is gonna be very busy

[Lord_Erman]

Well we did win makeb and from the looks of it Darth Marr has a plan up his sleeve that will put himself back on top...

 

Fixed that for you. A Sith is a Sith. You guys never change.

 

Malgus v.2 is coming, I'm telling you.

[Maaruin]

Fixed that for you. A Sith is a Sith. You guys never change.

 

Malgus v.2 is coming, I'm telling you.

 

Malgus v.2 were/are the Dread Masters. If we get a Malgus v.3, I doubt it will be Marr. It will more likely be a certain Grand Moff.

 

I think Bioware realized that for the game to function, the Empire needs a leader/figurehead, so they will keep him in that role.

[DmdShiva]

There are plenty of counterexamples for this, too. Take the Second World War. Hitlerite Germany, a more or less authoritarian state, suffered from insane divisions of resources and a weakened military that was ultimately destroyed by the combined actions of the authoritarian Soviet Union and the more or less democratic United States, Commonwealth, and associated powers. Imperial Japan's authoritarianism did not aid it meaningfully against the same array of democratic and undemocratic powers.

 

Bad example. One word: Resources. Look at production numbers between Germany, Russia, and the US. If you look at the highest-scoring fighter aces of WWII, you have to go down to #110 before you find a pilot that wasn't German; out of the top 150, only four were not Axis, and only eight were not German (five Japanese, two Finnish, and one Russian); the highest-scoring US ace doesn't even make the top 200. German pilots were in combat until they were medically unfit to fly (Gunther Rall getting his thumb shot off, for example), killed in action, or the war ended; US pilots were rotated home after a tour of duty -- a fixed number of missions. The US Army lost eight Sherman tanks for every Tiger tank they destroyed -- but the US produced ten Shermans for every Tiger Germany produced. The US and Russia had fully converted to assembly-line production; Germany was still handicapped by its adherence to the 'craftsman' style of production, where each worker had to be able to perform any step in the production of a product -- it was in forced-labor camps like the V-2 production facilities that this was abandoned. German equipment was produced to high tolerances at the cost of manpower requirements many times that of Allied gear, sometimes to the point of straining the limits of production ability, with the resulting loss of reliability (for example, the 10-25 hour service life of the Jumo 004 engines in the Me-262). Germany and Japan were both dependent on external petroleum supplies -- it was the Allied threat to shut down Japan's oil imports that drove it to attack the US, and fuel shortages crippled German operations and training once Allied bombing began seriously reducing German oil production and refining capacity. Japan suffered from needlessly-complex logistics -- the IJA had seven different, and mutually incompatible, rifle cartridges.

[Euphrosyne]

Bad example. One word: Resources. Look at production numbers between Germany, Russia, and the US. If you look at the highest-scoring fighter aces of WWII, you have to go down to #110 before you find a pilot that wasn't German; out of the top 150, only four were not Axis, and only eight were not German (five Japanese, two Finnish, and one Russian); the highest-scoring US ace doesn't even make the top 200. German pilots were in combat until they were medically unfit to fly (Gunther Rall getting his thumb shot off, for example), killed in action, or the war ended; US pilots were rotated home after a tour of duty -- a fixed number of missions. The US Army lost eight Sherman tanks for every Tiger tank they destroyed -- but the US produced ten Shermans for every Tiger Germany produced. The US and Russia had fully converted to assembly-line production; Germany was still handicapped by its adherence to the 'craftsman' style of production, where each worker had to be able to perform any step in the production of a product -- it was in forced-labor camps like the V-2 production facilities that this was abandoned. German equipment was produced to high tolerances at the cost of manpower requirements many times that of Allied gear, sometimes to the point of straining the limits of production ability, with the resulting loss of reliability (for example, the 10-25 hour service life of the Jumo 004 engines in the Me-262). Germany and Japan were both dependent on external petroleum supplies -- it was the Allied threat to shut down Japan's oil imports that drove it to attack the US, and fuel shortages crippled German operations and training once Allied bombing began seriously reducing German oil production and refining capacity. Japan suffered from needlessly-complex logistics -- the IJA had seven different, and mutually incompatible, rifle cartridges.

So you say "bad example" and then provide a series of reasons backing me up? My goal was to show that authoritarianism and inefficiency can coexist in the same state, so I said that Nazi Germany was authoritarian...and yet this authoritarian framework went hand in hand with gross Nazi inefficiency in certain ways.

 

One of these instances of inefficiency was bureaucratic, and it has been well documented (and you didn't touch on it at all); everybody from Ian Kershaw and Albert Speer to Michael Burleigh and Richard Evans has covered the redundant organizations between Party, Army, and state, and the massive infighting between them. This sort of Nazi inefficiency, which arguably didn't even begin to dissipate until late 1944 after Hitler's post-coup attempt purge, may very well have been actively encouraged by Hitler to prevent any of his cronies from achieving too much power. And in that sense, it's directly comparable to the way in which the absentee Sith Emperor manipulated the Dark Council, the military, various factions of Sith, and Intelligence before his "death" at the hands of the Hero of Tython.

 

But they were also inefficient in military-industrial senses, as you touched on. Poor, frequently labor-intensive methods of production were one of several factors that caused the Nazi war machine to churn out far fewer tanks, planes, trains, trucks, guns, and so on compared to the Allies, but it was probably the most important reason. German equipment, while it was sometimes - even frequently - of theoretically higher quality design than that of the Allies, was almost always of vastly inferior construction, and German designs were often prone to breakdown in the field anyway; the most cursory glance at German tank statistics for time spent in action vs. time spent in maintenance would show that.

 

Similarly, Imperial Japan's inability to resolve its Army-Navy infighting or the infighting between the different factions within the Army resulted in no real doctrine being adopted, no single war plan being followed (until 1944, when the IJA and IJN finally agreed on massed suicide counterattacks as the method of saving kokutai), and a multiplicity of military options being pursued at once with no concentration in force, a sort of military inefficiency next to which the use of several different kinds of cartridge that you mentioned - while still obviously very inefficient - was mere peanuts.

 

So I have to say, I don't think you're necessarily arguing against me.

[cool-dude]

The only thing that holds back the Empire is the Sith.

[zzoorrzz]

The only thing that holds back the Empire is the Sith.

 

Without Sith, Empire would be just Republic's clone with some minor differences. And there would be no point for it to exist.

[Connorsan]

Well, somebody has to hire you!

Have you ever heard of the Hutt Cartel?

[BradTheImpaler]

Have you ever heard of the Hutt Cartel?

 

Yes. No need for the sarcasm. Right now, at least, the Hutt Cartel is not a playable faction, however. It's also been humbled by the end of Chapter 4 after losing Makeb. It's a major force, but nowhere near enough to fight a direct war with either major faction. Join with them and try to fight off the Empire, and you'll end up dead! >: )

 

Anyway, wow, this thread is alive!

 

As for the Empire, to say that without Sith Lords it would just be identical to the Republic is wrong. It would still be a very different society.

Edited June 1, 2013 by BradTheImpaler

[LadyKohastFel]

It sometimes feels like in the next content update, Republic troopers will be storming Kaas City.

 

And paid faction changes...

[Kaisernick]

There's a lot of time between now and the other comics, books and movies.

 

While yes the empire will lose eventually. There's always the possibility they will win for a good long while at least.

 

one thing that always bugs me is Palps line from revenge of the sith.

"once more the sith will rule the galaxy"

Once more seems to imply that at one time they did rule now although its highly unlikly that he was refering to the GGW i cant seem to find what event he may be refering to and Bioware could easily have it that the Empire wins for a time and the jedi and republic eventually become a resistance.

[BradTheImpaler]

one thing that always bugs me is Palps line from revenge of the sith.

"once more the sith will rule the galaxy"

Once more seems to imply that at one time they did rule now although its highly unlikly that he was refering to the GGW i cant seem to find what event he may be refering to and Bioware could easily have it that the Empire wins for a time and the jedi and republic eventually become a resistance.

 

Lucas doesn't follow the EU that closely and was probably not referring to any specific event, but there are times in galactic history which could easily enough be considered Sith rule, as an extension of the rule of the dark side:

 

-The Dark Wars

-The Republic Dark Age

-Some upcoming part of the Sith Empire's history in which the Republic is (temporarily) all but destroyed and retreating to the Core Worlds to rebuild.

 

That, or surviving records of the Sith Empire were...immodest.

[StarSquirrel]

Lot of Republic players/supporters here huh.

 

Well, let me try and explain just how the Empire has done as well as it has.

 

I think the best analogy (for my purposes) is pre and during World War II Germany.

 

Germany (Empire) was in a state of disarray, having had it's economy, manpower, and morale devastated by the Allies (Republic) in a previous war. They limped back to their tiny home to rebuild. Strife and civil unrest gripped the nation for years until a single man named Hitler (Sith Emperor) united and motivated the people. He got them to work in a industrialized boom fueled by military prep. While theoretically unsustainable, it lasted long enough to (in a few short years) independently develop technology and resources that could, in a short conflict, be called up quickly and overrun their still economically, numerically, and industrially superior opponents.

 

Empire's advantages

-exclusively military based economy that has been building up for 300 years

-devoted population (at least at the start of the war)

-surprise

-political division within the enemy about what course of action to take

 

Republic's situation

-doesn't expect the Empire's strike

-there is division about who to save and who is willingly give up forces protecting their planets to help the fighting

-difficult to mobilize a military that has been scaled down for peace time.

 

Eventually (as of Makeb)

 

Empire's situation

-division (Operation Valkyrie/ power plays on the Dark Council)

-drained resources

-loss of initiative

-less experienced soldiers are pressed into service

-bad leadership decisions

 

Republic's advantages

-bigger industry base/resources

-bigger population pool

-has had time to mobilize during the Empire's consolidation.

-united front

 

So in the beginning there was only Britain and mainland Europe fighting the Germans and they got clobbered. This is akin to when the Sith Empire struck and there was confusion as individual systems recalled fleets while smaller republic forces died trying to hold cut-off lines. Then the Germans hit a wall with Britain. Empire hit a wall a Bothawui. Coruscant's sacking can be equated to the Blitz. This period here is the Cold War, Germany doesn't fight any of the major Allies and the Empire doesn't fight the Republic (though border skirmishes and independent systems/nations still fight) When Germany attacked Russia they kicked off the next phase. The Allied invasion of Italy and the Russian counters on the Eastern Front (Stalingrad is a bit later but still to the point) kicked the Germans off the offensive. Empire losing Balmorra and Correllia is equivalent. So the Empire/Germany cut off the bleeding and fought a defensive fight. (Sicily, Monte Casino, Anzio / Marr's fleet) Hoping for a secret weapon. the A-bomb would have been German's Isotope 5 had they completed it in time.

 

The parallels are obvious. We're recreating World War 2 on a massive scale (timescale included)

 

I'd clean this up to make the correlations stronger but my brain isn't at its best this time of night...

 

Edit:

 

I also feel the need to add the xenophobic and racist policies of both the Empire and Nazi Germany.

 

The Germans had a far harsher manner of treating their racial victims as opposed to the Imperial system of slavery and second-class citizens.

 

Either way it is my opinion that had Germany merely pressed the Jews into military and industrial jobs they could have easily boosted their war machine significantly. That combined with wiser leadership decisions and the French and even the Russians (possibly though far less likely) could be speaking German right now.

 

Same goes for the Empire. If they empire had merely impressed or at least allowed fair and equal treatment to aliens they could have toppled the Republic at this point in the game.

Edited July 10, 2013 by StarSquirrel

[Girdeux]

one thing that always bugs me is Palps line from revenge of the sith.

"once more the sith will rule the galaxy"

Once more seems to imply that at one time they did rule now although its highly unlikly that he was refering to the GGW i cant seem to find what event he may be refering to and Bioware could easily have it that the Empire wins for a time and the jedi and republic eventually become a resistance.

 

No, Lucas has an explanation for this. Darth Ruin is the first sith lord in movie continuity around 2000 bby, his empire rises and rules the galaxy for a long period of time, till they are killed by the jedi 1000 bby. This was stated in TPM novel and interviews.

 

nothing from the movies ever explains events in the EU because the EU never happen in movie continuity.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Girdeux

[Julius_Caesar]

If the Sith Empire needs an Emperor, I am available.

[frankiejo]

I only have one question.. Since we all know that in the end the Republic wins the war according to the story and lore. Could it be that an alternate outcome actually has the Imperial's win the war ???

 

what are you talking about? are you talking about the movies, the books, the comics? this is bell jar event, it has no bearing with any of the other sub plots in the star wars EU

[nareea]

what are you talking about? are you talking about the movies, the books, the comics? this is bell jar event, it has no bearing with any of the other sub plots in the star wars EU

 

 

I find the EU a living, breathing joke in Star wars, if I was Lucas I would be embarrassed. This place and time in SW's is miss conceived to begin with, so why not have some miss conceived turn of events? I mean really, Makeb ?? To save the Empire from one simple resource??

 

This is the garbage that comes from the EU......

[StarSquirrel]

I find the EU a living, breathing joke in Star wars, if I was Lucas I would be embarrassed. This place and time in SW's is miss conceived to begin with, so why not have some miss conceived turn of events? I mean really, Makeb ?? To save the Empire from one simple resource??

 

This is the garbage that comes from the EU......

 

lol, 1 simple resource is what helped save/build (or could have saved) empires time and again in real life...

 

Horses (made the Huns, the Magyars, and the Mongols the forces they where)

Bronze (saved Greece from Persia)

Gunpower (France won Hundred Years War Finally)

Winter weather (Saved Russia twice)*

Oil (from China made Japan the force it was in WW2)

A-bomb (could have saved Germany)

 

so really, it isn't that far-fetched. I shouldn't have to justify this stuff though, it is just a game... Also, if you don't like the EU then go back and re-watch the same old movies alone on your couch for hours on end and let us enjoy the rest of this expansive franchise in peace.

 

*yeah I get this might not be a resources but I was making the "1 factor can change history" point here...

Edited July 12, 2013 by StarSquirrel

[Kaisernick]

lol, 1 simple resource is what helped save/build (or could have saved) empires time and again in real life...

 

Horses (made the Huns, the Magyars, and the Mongols the forces they where)

Bronze (saved Greece from Persia)

Gunpower (France won Hundred Years War Finally)

Winter weather (Saved Russia twice)*

Oil (from China made Japan the force it was in WW2)

A-bomb (could have saved Germany)

 

so really, it isn't that far-fetched. I shouldn't have to justify this stuff though, it is just a game... Also, if you don't like the EU then go back and re-watch the same old movies alone on your couch for hours on end and let us enjoy the rest of this expansive franchise in peace.

 

*yeah I get this might not be a resources but I was making the "1 factor can change history" point here...

should add A-bomb ended Americas war on Japan