Xodusprime Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 These folks are usually no different than the folks that spend tons of time mastering Street Fighter or Starcraft. With video games it usually is about how much time one spends with a game. It's not a actual skill if mostly anyone can do it given the time. No matter how hard I try I could never master painting or playing the piano like a pro. NOW that is an actual skill and talent. Also a lot of these people just copy/paste their builds and rotations making it even less of a skill. The people who are theory crafting are using skills...but they are using math and not some game skill. well they are theory crafting because they have to not only find out the game mechanics of the fight but find a way to circumvent it. It takes time, sometimes a lot, but it does take a lot of thinking and skill in a collaborative effort. Ill never down these guys on the very top end because ive been there and done that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethusa Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 OFC NOT ! Stop thinking about things by only your point of view. When you go to a flashpoint, you can see people are slacking or not with dps meter. And also you can see yourself with different rotations and which one is the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LASSEKOCH Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I think its awesome that you cant use addons. I like to play mmo's as they are and without all the extra help of addons.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJMosling Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 fantastic, I can finally enjoy flashpoints without some kid linking his meter every 3 mins to brag. what a blast, thanks for not including a combat log bioware! It really says something that this mattered to you so much. Who cares if "some kid" is doing this? Why are you even grouping with "some kid"? I am having lots of fun, too, but it most certainly has absolutely nothing to do with whether there are meters or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatherJeffrey Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 That's because this games PvE is faceroll, where WoW's actually requires skill. Do a 10M heroic on WoW and you will walk away crying, 25M Heroic and you will wipe on trash most likely. No mods = faceroll content = casuals win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash-X Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 well they are theory crafting because they have to not only find out the game mechanics of the fight but find a way to circumvent it. It takes time, sometimes a lot, but it does take a lot of thinking and skill in a collaborative effort. Ill never down these guys on the very top end because ive been there and done that. Most of all it takes time. I'm not knocking guys at the top. They are good at that certain game mostly because of their experience in the game. What I did say is that being a successful MMO player is not difficult. Usually the bad players are either... 1.) Under 15 years old and really are just playing the game for fun. They will hit things they see because this is how they play every game. I know, I played EQ at a young age and was bad because I didn't understand *** was going on. Just click buttons and do things... 2.) New to MMOs 3.) Just don't quite understand MMOs any ways. Usually, unless you are dealing with a headcase...people can be taught how to be successful team members and thus MMO players and get their gear. Which is what this is ALL about. Someone doing less DPS can be told what they are doing wrong and CAN get better at it. People just need to take the time to tell them. The reason most people are against DPS meter is because they were kicked and that was probably the end of it. No one ever tells them what they are doing wrong just that they are bad and move on. I honestly dunno, I tend to play a healer/tank any ways. I let DPS folk fight among themselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overthrownn Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I vote no for an ingame damage meter, but I HUGE yes for the use of a combat parser. Without some kind of valid way to measure dps, guilds will be at a standstill. How will they know who is not pulling their weight on bosses? They could infact kick one person thinking it was him when infact he could of been the best. Makes no sense to me I have always played a DPS character, and I feel gimped without a way to measure and hone my skill to achieve peak DPS. Its not used to brag in the slightest! Why wouldn't you want to perform at your optimal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeelol Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Most of all it takes time. I'm not knocking guys at the top. They are good at that certain game mostly because of their experience in the game. What I did say is that being a successful MMO player is not difficult. Usually the bad players are either... 1.) Under 15 years old and really are just playing the game for fun. They will hit things they see because this is how they play every game. I know, I played EQ at a young age and was bad because I didn't understand *** was going on. Just click buttons and do things... 2.) New to MMOs 3.) Just don't quite understand MMOs any ways. Usually, unless you are dealing with a headcase...people can be taught how to be successful team members and thus MMO players and get their gear. Which is what this is ALL about. Someone doing less DPS can be told what they are doing wrong and CAN get better at it. People just need to take the time to tell them. The reason most people are against DPS meter is because they were kicked and that was probably the end of it. No one ever tells them what they are doing wrong just that they are bad and move on. I honestly dunno, I tend to play a healer/tank any ways. I let DPS folk fight among themselves There's also this thing called research. Noone's obligated to waste his time into teaching every single person he meets how to handle his class and what to do in most situations. Most of those people also get enraged whenever someone even hints at them doing something wrong even if they're polite and they try to help without sounding condescending. So no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narwan Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 That's because this games PvE is faceroll, where WoW's actually requires skill. Do a 10M heroic on WoW and you will walk away crying, 25M Heroic and you will wipe on trash most likely. No mods = faceroll content = casuals win Wows pve requires skill? hahahahahah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJMosling Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Most of those people also get enraged whenever someone even hints at them doing something wrong even if they're polite and they try to help without sounding condescending. This. I don't have any data about "most" people's habits, of course, but it happens enough that it turns off well-meaning players from trying to help their random party members for fear of getting a "DON'T YOU TELL ME HOW TO PLAY, I PLAY FOR FUN!!1!" response in return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wotts Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Wows pve requires skill? hahahahahah You've never done a hard mode, have you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash-X Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 There's also this thing called research. Noone's obligated to waste his time into teaching every single person he meets how to handle his class and what to do in most situations. Most of those people also get enraged whenever someone even hints at them doing something wrong even if they're polite and they try to help without sounding condescending. So no. Which is why I said unless you are dealing with a headcase... Hey if someone isn't doing something right just tell them, see how they respond. If it is a nasty remark then kick them, at least you tried. If it isn't then tell them "Hey man you need better gear, that's why you aren't doing much damage." or point them to where they can better their rotation. You might find someone that is willing to learn and get better. Shrugs, I just see it has helping someone out is helping myself out as well. Too bad most don't see it that way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcarinn Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Nope. It has everything to do with guild control freaks kicking people for not being up to snuff instead of teaching them. Name one guild that actually taught people instead of just g-kicking them and removing them from the raid. What's that? No response? It's ok. If you are maxed lvl wanting to raid it is not GUILDS RESPONSIBILITY to teach you since after 50 lvls and countless of hours people expect you to know things especially things and rotations connected with your MAIN character. If you dont its your problem and guild problem is called gkick solution your solution is called l2p. I hate people who think they should be taught by someone else... be useful and use your brains for a change and google things up. DMG meter is a must! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narwan Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 You've never done a hard mode, have you? Yes i have, but im guessing you guys have all completed all the operations in swtor on hardmode as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvinu Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 fantastic, I can finally enjoy flashpoints without some kid linking his meter every 3 mins to brag. what a blast, thanks for not including a combat log bioware! lol. damn casuals and AOC and other failed mmo players i wish i can come with your group and afk... spamming randomly some spells doin 0 damage, while u struggle to kill a mob. this is fun!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unaki Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 If you are maxed lvl wanting to raid it is not GUILDS RESPONSIBILITY to teach you since after 50 lvls and countless of hours people expect you to know things especially things and rotations connected with your MAIN character. If you dont its your problem and guild problem is called gkick solution your solution is called l2p. I hate people who think they should be taught by someone else... be useful and use your brains for a change and google things up. DMG meter is a must! You say you hate people who want to be taught by someone else but do you realize that if they google the information they seek, they are in effect still being taught by another person? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeelol Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 You say you hate people who want to be taught by someone else but do you realize that if they google the information they seek, they are in effect still being taught by another person? Do they waste someone else's time? Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJMosling Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 You say you hate people who want to be taught by someone else but do you realize that if they google the information they seek, they are in effect still being taught by another person? There is a critical difference between someone asking for a spot in a raid while demanding to be taught, and someone proactively seeking the information prior to asking for that spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekadez Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) I found it refreshing to do Flashpoints without any form of Damage Meters, and I don't need any. I remember early raiding in WoW, and we did just fine without it. It's about being aware of other classes, know their playstyle, and recognize someone who is underperforming. Teach them how to play. Damage meters is all about instant gratification e-peening and fascist Guildleader control freaks. Damage meters turn performance into a single number, not grasping half of what matters, and existing as an excuse for real nobs to kick without saying a word, either from a Guild or Party. If you can't figure out what rotation is best, which spec is best, which talents are best, without Damage Meters. Please: Go play Hello Kitty Online. You might be required to think in this game: The nerve! Edited December 21, 2011 by Dekadez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabloosh Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I love having no meters so now I can play the way i want to play and just use the spells I want too even if they are not the ones I should be using. Now no one can complain about how I play. Wrong. Its just now we can speculate who is to blame instead of actually knowing that you are the problem. I can still call you out for not ccing, attacking the wrong target and not interrupting all of which can be more destructive then subpar dps but they tend to go hand and hand. I've given people help in figuring out how to play their class before but I am not going to dedicate my time to making sure you know how to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatherJeffrey Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Wows pve requires skill? hahahahahah Link me your profile and show me what 10M heroics or 25M heroics you done? Zero no doubt. 25M heroics are insane, hence only a very little percent of the player base end up completing all of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJMosling Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I found it refreshing to do Flashpoints without any form of Damage Meters, and I don't need any. I remember early raiding in WoW, and we did just fine without it. It's about being aware of other classes, know their playstyle, and recognize someone who is underperforming. Teach them how to play. Damage meters is all about instant gratification e-peening and fascist Guildleader control freaks. Damage meters turn performance into a single number, not grasping half of what matters, and existing as an excuse for real nobs to kick without saying a word, either from a Guild or Party. If you can't figure out what rotation is best, which spec is best, which talents are best, without Damage Meters. Please: Go play Hello Kitty Online. You might be required to think in this game: The nerve! Not to discount your anecdote or anything, but can you honestly say that someone who wasn't in Beta for an extended period knows all 8 Advanced Classes well enough to be able to make an off-the-cuff determination and "recognize someone who is underperforming"? Sometimes it's easy, sure. Like if the healer isn't healing. But if I said there were 4 melee dps in this raid, and on top of everything else that was going on, you have to figure out who's really trying hard and who is just spamming their base attack to try to look busy ... and you'd be totally fine with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash-X Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 You say you hate people who want to be taught by someone else but do you realize that if they google the information they seek, they are in effect still being taught by another person? Let em think that. They cut themselves out from a lot of people that become good team members. Funny thing is I bet these are the people who tell others. "Wow you suck, L2P noob. Lol you suck." and then wonder why they get a nasty remark back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deusBAAL Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Nope. It has everything to do with guild control freaks kicking people for not being up to snuff instead of teaching them. Name one guild that actually taught people instead of just g-kicking them and removing them from the raid. What's that? No response? It's ok. Here a name for you: Saviours Good old Cocoon (guildleader char, wiz in EQ and war in VG) used to throw a fit and yell at everyone until everyone got their dps and acts inline. 8) No one ever got kicked for acting poorly... not coming back after being yelled at being an other story though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekadez Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) Here a name for you: Saviours Good old Cocoon (guildleader char, wiz in EQ and war in VG) used to throw a fit and yell at everyone until everyone got their dps and acts inline. 8) No one ever got kicked for acting poorly... not coming back after being yelled at being an other story though. Yeah, if some mouthbreather yells at me, or even others, over Ventrilo during a video game, I'm not coming back. Not playing this game to indulge in an underage fascist sociopath fantasy. Edited December 21, 2011 by Dekadez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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