xJeTsTaRx Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) People can even fake that by spamming a single ability that is semi-useful and uses a decent amount of resource. I used to be a raid lead, I had to learn to look for that stuff even with meters. We had one healer who'd also rank last in healing, but never by too much. In combat you saw lots of casting going on. Eventually a got a mod that showed exactly what spells they were casting. She was casting a crappy AoE heal over and over and over again, only ONE SPELL, and much of her healing was overhealing. Without those mods, I wouldn't have been able to tell that and her free ride would continue. She got booted hard. Lol, well its thanks to this that bioware didnt put a meter in there.. Hell why not try to help her out instead of booting her, and if things didnt work out let her know. Instead of "she got booted hard" thats just some fked up ****. Edited December 21, 2011 by xJeTsTaRx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfelsung Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Nope. It has everything to do with guild control freaks kicking people for not being up to snuff instead of teaching them. Name one guild that actually taught people instead of just g-kicking them and removing them from the raid. What's that? No response? It's ok. The reality of this situation: Raid Lead: Hey dude, your DPS is a little less than optimal and you seem to really drop DPS when we do (phase x). I got a couple tips for you and a youtube vid... Player: **** you. I play how I want! Raid Lead: Okay then, enjoy playing how you want. /gkick They wouldn't get gkicked if they took the advice when offered, but they almost never do. The ones that do end up being the best raiders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holden_Dissent Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Its gonna be fun to guess who's AFK watching their favorite T.V. Program while trying to down heroics raids I stream football and baseball while I play. Well, when games are on anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunsliver Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 How can you optimize your damage output if you don't even know what it is. Damage meters are there to show slackers and baddies. Go back where you came from and stay there please. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelticfury Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 You don't need a meter to test your effectiveness, just kill multiples of the same enemy using your different rotations. Its not rocket surgery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torgadar Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 One of my better arguments I heard was back in WoW TBC when we were working our way through BT and we ended up booting a recruit during their trial because they weren't performing up to the expectations their app set for them. "I pay 15 dollars a month to play this game I should be allowed to play how I want." Guild leader responded: "The other 24 of us pay 360 dollars a month and you're wasting OUR time." I lol'ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfelsung Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) Lol, well its thanks to this that bioware didnt put a meter in there.. Hell why not try to help her out instead of booting her, and if things didnt work out let her know. Instead of "she got booted hard" thats just some fked up ****. Because when we called her on it, she got uppity. You don't spam one ability because you don't know better, you spam one ability when you're being lazy on purpose. You people seem to forget that the primary offenders of low DPS are people who are PURPOSELY BEING LAZY. Yes, it's a game. Guess what one of the primary goals of a game is? Victory. A game is always more fun when you win. A win is always better when it is utter and absolute domination. One should aspire to be good at everything they do, game or not. Edited December 21, 2011 by Yfelsung Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biere Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Its gonna be fun to guess who's AFK watching their favorite T.V. Program while trying to down heroics raids yes its easy..there is no auto attack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skiiba Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I want a damage meter. It has nothing to do with linking it so that everyone knows i'm the best, and everything to do with knowing who which of our 4 raid healers isn't healing, so we can teach him. Nightmare mode raiding will be rough So you would get all the way to Nightmare mode end game with a healer you don't actually trust to be actually playing the game and just coasting along? Even without meters you can weed out the slackers well before end game raiding gets to the nightmare mode stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proto Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 fantastic, I can finally enjoy flashpoints without some kid linking his meter every 3 mins to brag. what a blast, thanks for not including a combat log bioware! I agree. I really was a competitive player with damage meters for several games past. However, for the first time since DAOC I can recall grouping / meeting new players and not judging them based on a score card. Its been a lot of fun and I think even if people aren't "perfect" it adds a lot to the community for the server as a whole. Great work Bioware for not including the combat log. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostvein Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Its going to be nigh impossible to balance Nightmares without a combat log/meters of some kind. The problem isn't the tool, the problem is the people using said tool. If I hit you with a hammer, is it the hammers fault I used it incorrectly? No. I just want to be able to play the game how I want to play it, and that means having a combat log available for me to check out what I got hit by/what I hit for. I'm assuming they are implementing one in the upcoming patches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkiii Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Lol, well its thanks to this that bioware didnt put a meter in there.. Hell why not try to help her out instead of booting her, and if things didnt work out let her know. Instead of "she got booted hard" thats just some fked up ****. Bioware has already stated that they will more than likely implement a damage parser at a later date. I hope they do implement it. It's a great tool for me personally. Smoothing out rotations for optimal performance to better help the raid with my own small contribution. Trust me, I would rather have a World First or a USA First over being the top DPS on some random boss fight any day. Meters help me and my guild to achieve such success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beldorm Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I am hoping by the time the majority of players get to 50 (that want to raid) and we have a few initial patches out we will see a meter of some kind. It will help with those guilds that want to raid tremendously. I don't see the point in flash points or leveling however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeonBraun Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 The ironic thing however is there is gear with stats and talents that increase the power of your abilities, yet there is no way to see what difference these are making when you can't see your character output. That is kind of contradictory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skiiba Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Because when we called her on it, she got uppity. You don't spam one ability because you don't know better, you spam one ability when you're being lazy on purpose. You people seem to forget that the primacy offenders of low DPS are people who are PURPOSELY BEING LAZY. Yes, it's a game. Guess what one of the primary goals of a game is? Victory. A game is always more fun when you win. A win is always better when it is utter and absolute domination. One should aspire to be good at everything they do, game or not. You don't NEED an add on to see what someone is casting. If you are suspicious of what they are doing, just watching what they are doing is a dead give away. You could have just asked one of your good players of the same class to see what she was doing, no need for an add on. Every guild I have been in that does end game raiding has its good players and bad, sadly its always up to the good to help the bad guys out. If you are one of the better players you will be looking at the other players in your raid of the same class as you and checking what they are doing. If you are top notch you will pick up pretty quickly what they are doing wrong without the aid or damage meters. If you think you are one of the best players and you are not watching what other people do and trying to help them improve to help the raid then you aren't one of the best players for group content, you may be great on your own but in a group if you aren't willing to help other people you may as well not bother. Some people don't take it well when told they are doing something wrong, give them time to adapt, if they don't then ask them to leave. No need to be so harsh about it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfelsung Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 You don't NEED an add on to see what someone is casting. If you are suspicious of what they are doing, just watching what they are doing is a dead give away. You could have just asked one of your good players of the same class to see what she was doing, no need for an add on. Every guild I have been in that does end game raiding has its good players and bad, sadly its always up to the good to help the bad guys out. If you are one of the better players you will be looking at the other players in your raid of the same class as you and checking what they are doing. If you are top notch you will pick up pretty quickly what they are doing wrong without the aid or damage meters. If you think you are one of the best players and you are not watching what other people do and trying to help them improve to help the raid then you aren't one of the best players for group content, you may be great on your own but in a group if you aren't willing to help other people you may as well not bother. Some people don't take it well when told they are doing something wrong, give them time to adapt, if they don't then ask them to leave. No need to be so harsh about it though. How do I watch what she's casting in a raid when I am the main tank and, you know, sort of busy? I need the ability to look over the stuff LATER, while having a beer and chatting with friends on VOIP. As I said, you don't need to join a raid guild that tries to play at high level, you can join one that has an anti-DPS meter policy. Hell, create one. Just don't take tools out of my hands as a raid leader because you're afraid to be judged in PuGs by those tools. Who cares what some random DPS playing teenager thinks of your DPS in a PuG? He's a sack of meat and piss on the other side of the country. His opinion, nay, his very life is worthless to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThanosTitan Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Its all cupcakes and handshakes while people faceroll over leveling content. Wait till your stuck in fail groups on actual hard content who have no idea why they keep failing. Without any incoming data on whos performing or what areas are lacking, the groups chances of accurately fixing the problems are slim to none. You may not want everyone to know how bad you are, but I need to know how good I am doing MY job. This is stuff that should have been in beta, basic mmo stuff. This game has not lived up to the hype. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgasi Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I have a love/hate thing with combat logs. One the one hand, I like to see how I can improve. On the other hand, it's as you say... too many people using them during regular game play to "brag" or whatever, which can be a bit annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucklebutt Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I believe a meter is a huge benefit to all. Of course you will have the kid who links the meter after every boss fight, that's just something we have to live with in a game like this. It isn't like anyone should really care unless he spams it constantly, I personally think the person can do what they want if they're proud of themselves. After a heroic 4 yesterday, I realized how nice it would be. We would CC and start the fight, CC would be broken with an AOE about 5 seconds into the fight. Some tard who hit the same rotation regardless of a CCed mob a few meters away. As we kept moving along while getting killed occasionally he started attacking things that the tank wasn't attacking, atleast it seemed that way because he was taking as much damage while the other melee wasn't. I couldn't prove any of it though! I could only make accusations because it was just my word against his word! He could claim that he didn't AOE and I couldn't prove he did with a log . After 4 tries on the final boss, he left, we got in someone 3 levels lower and we downed it first time very easily. Just saying that combat log is a needed. Who really cares if someone in the group is spamming their top DPS? It doesn't hurt me at all, I want them to be successful! If his incentive to put out good DPS is to show off, then good for him. As long as he doesn't skimp on his CC and damage reduction abilities to get there, then I'm fine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernickx Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Looking forward to mods in SWTOR and the inevitable damage recount that will come. Thanks Bioware for confirming you will be adding addon support in the future and not caving in to whines that only serve to harm the game. (No addons means less functionality because devs don't have time to do all the little things we come to love like map notes and additional ui stuff) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arctorius Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 fantastic, I can finally enjoy flashpoints without some kid linking his meter every 3 mins to brag. what a blast, thanks for not including a combat log bioware! Lol too true. I won't cry if they never put in a combat log or mods like damage meters. I certainly will never miss: PWNYOURFACE: DPS 10 010 Jerry: DPS 9950 Tom: DPS 9925 Paul: DPS 9920 Healyjoe: DPS 2 PWNYOURFACE says: "Boooh yeah I pwned you guys in the damage meters!" Jerry says: "You only did 60 more dps than me before we wiped because you didn't [insert game mechanic]" PWNYOURFACE says: "Shut up! You guys are scrubs!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzrknight Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) Well if you cant count the dps just follow this: When in doubt ,kick them out. Really , if you think they are underperforming just kick them out , there is no way to them to prove you were wrong anyway. At some point you will get a good team going. Edited December 21, 2011 by rzrknight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeelol Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) Lol too true. I won't cry if they never put in a combat log or mods like damage meters. I certainly will never miss: PWNYOURFACE: DPS 10 010 Jerry: DPS 9950 Tom: DPS 9925 Paul: DPS 9920 Healyjoe: DPS 2 PWNYOURFACE says: "Boooh yeah I pwned you guys in the damage meters!" Jerry says: "You only did 60 more dps than me before we wiped because you didn't [insert game mechanic]" PWNYOURFACE says: "Shut up! You guys are scrubs!" Instead you'll get (your case never happens, it's the one below that always does though) Normal guy: 10k dps Tank:5k dps Random guy who doesn't want damage meters because they ruin the game #1 : 1k dps Random guy who doesn't want damage meters because they ruin the game #2 : 500 dps Edited December 21, 2011 by Skeelol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagmonster Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 No its not great for anyone who wants to take end game content seriously. Its not great for anyone who wants to maximize the performance of their character. The only person its great for is the person who never gave a crap anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SooperDaive Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 How can you optimize your damage output if you don't even know what it is. Damage meters are there to show slackers and baddies. Yellow and white numbers appear above a enemies head when you attack them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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