Did the TTK..... Just get shorter?

[Zoom_VI]

When I started wz yesterday I had 30k hp and all my old amounts of shiel& absorb and I was like Yayyyy I am actually hard to kill and I even solo killed a mauraders *gasp*

Then I lvled hit the stat reductions and was like crap now I hit like a wet noodle and die in four or less gcds

[Okod]

The short TTK is silly, especially if you get stunned and focused by 2. Now, before anyone starts ranting; no, I don't expect to win against 2 but - as my healer Op especially - I used to be able to live out the stun and then stealth out until they get bored. In 2.0 I'm dead before the stun ends. And as a healer you're usually marked, so as soon as you re-spawn it's 2 v 1, stun, dead again. Yay!

 

I also saw the post by someone saying Assassins can keep you stun-locked until death, and although I've not seen that myself, I don't think it's that unlikely. With the much lower TTK any kind of CC, hard-stuns especially, are proportionately that much more powerful.

 

And the extra health doesn't help a great deal. For some reason by 46 Powertech is granted 28K+ HP (naked or otherwise!), whereas most of the teams I see, and the rest of my characters are around ~23K HP (again, naked or otherwise - my characters don't seem to change much regardless of clothing!). He lives a bit longer, but at the moment I'm not sure whether this is the extra HP, or that he's a tank build, or some combination of both.

[SpaniardInfinity]

On the note of TTK, for anyone that has gotten the Level 55 PvP gear, what is your healing from expertise bonus? On the PTS it was only 21% for me in full Conqueror -- the patch notes explicitly say you are supposed to have 35%. If that issue hasn't been resolved, well, that may be why TTK is low. Edited April 10, 2013 by SpaniardInfinity

[islander]

I'm not seeing a TTK issue at all, at least in 30-54's. I PvP'd naked, for a solid 2 hours or so. Got 7 wins towards my weekly. To me, the issue with TTK is ignorance....there are a LOT of people who don't yet understand how to best PvP gear wise (or lack of gear wise). Because 'max expertise' gives MUCH higher bonuses all around, the possibility of getting crushed under a certain gearing scenario is higher. Edited April 10, 2013 by islander

[dcgregorya]

I also saw the post by someone saying Assassins can keep you stun-locked until death, and although I've not seen that myself, I don't think it's that unlikely. With the much lower TTK any kind of CC, hard-stuns especially, are proportionately that much more powerful.

 

Confirmed. On my shadow infiltration spec I can absolutely stun lock you until dead so long as I have my hard stun off CD.

[dcgregorya]

I'm not seeing a TTK issue at all, at least in 30-54's. I PvP'd naked, for a solid 2 hours or so. Got 7 wins towards my weekly. To me, the issue with TTK is ignorance....there are a LOT of people who don't yet understand how to best PvP gear wise (or lack of gear wise). Because 'max expertise' gives MUCH higher bonuses all around, the possibility of getting crushed under a certain gearing scenario is higher.

 

When I'm hitting ambushes for 9k against people who have 23k HP, how can you argue TTK isn't an issue (at least, comparative with previous patches)? I'm nuking almost half their health in 1.5-2.5 seconds, then following it up with another 5k on the follow through, at which point they're one snipe away from takedown territory (which also hits for 7k+).

 

I don't care how good you are, if I can kill you in 4 shots and root you twice there's no way you can survive unless my roots are on CD.

[SilverMagnum]

TTK is absurdly short.

 

On my GS, I can threeshot Sorcs (Speed Shot, Aimed Shot, Quickdraw) consistently. Usually try and root them first for the Aimed Shot so really it's four shotting them I guess.

 

Not even tanks survive more than five or six shots (unless I'm not paying attention and shoot right into that new guardian / jugg relfect like a moron).

 

I'm not saying it's an awful change, but it's definitely frantic.

[islander]

When I'm hitting ambushes for 9k against people who have 23k HP, how can you argue TTK isn't an issue (at least, comparative with previous patches)? I'm nuking almost half their health in 1.5-2.5 seconds, then following it up with another 5k on the follow through, at which point they're one snipe away from takedown territory (which also hits for 7k+).

 

I don't care how good you are, if I can kill you in 4 shots and root you twice there's no way you can survive unless my roots are on CD.

 

Yeah, because ALL of your ambushes hit for 9k. Just like all AOE smashes do. Look, you aren't killing anyone in medium armor in 4 shots. Additionally, if you are using your root, it's on a 12 second CD (if talented) and so your argument is effectively negated. If you're rooting a target twice that means that target lived 12 seconds (unless you are using a stun as a 'second' root, which again, is highly situationally used.

 

You're speaking of a perfect storm of critical hits on a lightly armored target without defensive cooldowns of any sort. Just stop.

 

I'm not 4 shotting anyone with rare situational exception such as above mentioned. Not to mention, as you approach 55 your crit rate goes down the toilet. I had 36.5% crit rate at level 50 post 2.0, and now, at level 52, it's taken a drop down to basically 30%. It will continue to drop, just like on PTS. You'll likely have to heavily invest in crit gear to get your crit rate near 30% at level 55 - unless Bioware's made some sort of crit change not mentioned.

Edited April 10, 2013 by islander

[dcgregorya]

Yeah, because ALL of your ambushes hit for 9k. Just like all AOE smashes do. Look, you aren't killing anyone in medium armor in 4 shots. Additionally, if you are using your root, it's on a 12 second CD (if talented) and so your argument is effectively negated. If you're rooting a target twice that means that target lived 12 seconds (unless you are using a stun as a 'second' root, which again, is highly situationally used.

 

You're speaking of a perfect storm of critical hits on a lightly armored target without defensive cooldowns of any sort. Just stop.

 

I'm not 4 shotting anyone with rare situational exception such as above mentioned. Not to mention, as you approach 55 your crit rate goes down the toilet. I had 36.5% crit rate at level 50 post 2.0, and now, at level 52, it's taken a drop down to basically 30%. It will continue to drop, just like on PTS. You'll likely have to heavily invest in crit gear to get your crit rate near 30% at level 55 - unless Bioware's made some sort of crit change not mentioned.

 

I am. On my sniper (level 31). On my gunslinger, I don't hit as hard (level 50). Go figure. I think its one of those single weapon vs dual weapon things. Two hits instead of one big one.

Edited April 10, 2013 by dcgregorya

[PhilD]

Additionally, if you are using your root, it's on a 12 second CD (if talented) and so your argument is effectively negated. If you're rooting a target twice that means that target lived 12 seconds (unless you are using a stun as a 'second' root, which again, is highly situationally used.

 

Cover Pulse roots people for 5 sec. I assume he's using that after Leg Shot wears off, or vice-versa.

[islander]

Cover Pulse roots people for 5 sec. I assume he's using that after Leg Shot wears off, or vice-versa.

 

Could be, sure. Of course, this is on a 60 second CD as MM so again, we're talking highly situational. Then again, if the victim isn't using defenses at that point, he is an idiot and deserves to die.

 

Now that I continue to think through the claims, I also won't entirely discount the possibility (I stress, possibility) that some portion of bolster is situationally broken. Meaning the damage a 31 does is literally more then say a 51, for example. I do have a 41 Scoundrel I can mess around with, and my Sin is 32 so I suppose I could try those out...but I admittedly don't have two of the same archtypes at different levels. I opted to go 'opposites' on my pub alts. (so scoundrel with my smuggler).

 

I just personally wasn't "ripped" apart at all last night in all my warzones. Now sure if 4 people were beating on me after being 'roped' into the mob then sure, there's that...but individually? not really. I had a really good assassin knock me out in about 12 (?) seconds last night in a Novare, but thats about it.

Edited April 10, 2013 by islander

[dcgregorya]

Cover Pulse roots people for 5 sec. I assume he's using that after Leg Shot wears off, or vice-versa.

 

Or flash bang. Its good enough to hold them for my next shot.

 

Example, ambush, insta-snipe, follow through, flash bang, explosive probe, ambush. That's if they're super tanky. Leg shot if they're still moving for some reason and repeat.

[kamikrazy]

Have you guys ever heard of a "tank"? They tend to do lots of "PvE" stuff and I've only caught glimpses of them in PvP. They seemed pretty useless because their numbers sucked (80k damage? I can do more than that on my healer!)

 

OK, in all seriousness, how many times have you seen a Jugg/Guardian in Soresu form end a warzone with 0 protection? These players are, for all intents and purposes, completely useless. Unless that tank was solo guarding the whole match, they are basically dead weight. Just like a DPS who only manages 120K damage while being in the thick of the action for the whole match.

 

I bring this up because my point is twofold: 1) TANKING in PvP is a difficult job, and 2) it's even more essential now in 2.0

 

Let's be honest for a second. Tanking pretty much sucked in PvP pre 2.0. Shields did not absorb force/tech damage and personally speaking, I didn't even get the capstone ability in the Defense tree of my Guardian. Simply put, I had to work hard, flying around swapping my guard and taunting. On top of that, I am CC'ing enemy healers/ranged casters and basically trying to make everyone's life miserable.

 

Now that 2.0 is live, I've spec'ed loads of points into my defense tree. In practice, I found that I was difficult to take down if I had a good healer. Because of the reduced TTK, I need to be quicker about switching my guard, but I generally try to keep the enemy team's DPS taunted. I'm sure there's some kinks that need to be ironed out with the TTK, but instead of creating 2,000 QQ threads on the forums, I have yet to see a single person offer up a solution (I don't really spend as much time trawling the forums as others do, so maybe I missed something).

 

TL;DR

(Good) Tanks are important now. Find one or roll one yourself. In fact, people should be taking advantage of naked bolster to experiment with different specs since you won't have to depend on having the correct gear.

Edited April 10, 2013 by kamikrazy

[dcgregorya]

TL;DR

(Good) Tanks are important now. Find one or roll one yourself. In fact, people should be taking advantage of naked bolster to experiment with different specs since you won't have to depend on having the correct gear.

 

The thing is, unless you're in a premade, you're never going to be guaranteed to have 2 heals + 2 tanks. A tank without a healer = useless. A healer without another healer or tank = useless. Solo queuing isn't very fun now, unless you gasm seeing 600k damage at the end of the match.

[Seireeni]

The thing is, unless you're in a premade, you're never going to be guaranteed to have 2 heals + 2 tanks. A tank without a healer = useless. A healer without another healer or tank = useless. Solo queuing isn't very fun now, unless you gasm seeing 600k damage at the end of the match.

 

I'm actually having quite fun with my sentinel, the boost seems to really like her gear. But I have to admit that I'm not sure if I'll pvp with my healers anymore at all. It's just living hell to try to keep people alive when they take that much damage. It's really hard, which makes it stressful, which makes it no fun.

Haven't tried my tanks yet, but I guess they'll also die faster than before, and they already died pretty fast, since I only do pugging...

[mulzii]

Yeah, because ALL of your ambushes hit for 9k. Just like all AOE smashes do. Look, you aren't killing anyone in medium armor in 4 shots. Additionally, if you are using your root, it's on a 12 second CD (if talented) and so your argument is effectively negated. If you're rooting a target twice that means that target lived 12 seconds (unless you are using a stun as a 'second' root, which again, is highly situationally used.

 

You're speaking of a perfect storm of critical hits on a lightly armored target without defensive cooldowns of any sort. Just stop.

 

I'm not 4 shotting anyone with rare situational exception such as above mentioned. Not to mention, as you approach 55 your crit rate goes down the toilet. I had 36.5% crit rate at level 50 post 2.0, and now, at level 52, it's taken a drop down to basically 30%. It will continue to drop, just like on PTS. You'll likely have to heavily invest in crit gear to get your crit rate near 30% at level 55 - unless Bioware's made some sort of crit change not mentioned.

 

I have a 37 slinger, (and 50's in just about every other class), and i can consistantly drop folks in 3-4 gcds (mm spec'd). With SC+AS, most classes will be half health. I immediately followup with trickshot and if any of those three critted, my QD will finish them off. Or i'll throw in an instant CS or SS then QD and boom, dead. If they pop a deflect shield, i'll root them until it finishes, then finish them off. Its so ridiculus lately i'll sometimes just wade in and forgo QD and just finish them with Shiv, just to rub it in..

 

On my 50 sniper (engineering) though, it seems to take longer to kill but i think its more of rust than anything...

Edited April 11, 2013 by mulzii

[Jaiyne]

I'd like to see a dev response to the TTK issue. There is absolutely no point to being a healer in this game currently.

[Kalliadies]

I'd like to see a dev response to the TTK issue. There is absolutely no point to being a healer in this game currently.

 

bollicks. all the insane healers from before the patch, are still nigh unkillable

[dcgregorya]

I'd like to see a dev response to the TTK issue. There is absolutely no point to being a healer in this game currently.

 

Yeah, I'm getting 650k+ consistently with my operative healer, wearing nothing but weapons . Problem is, without the right comp, you're going to have a lot of trouble.

[Seireeni]

bollicks. all the insane healers from before the patch, are still nigh unkillable

 

I can escape if someone attacks me, yeah, but it's pretty much that if I start casting my big heal when a guy has 50% of his hp, there's a high possibility that he's dead before my cast is finished. or he has 5%, which means that if I start casting my heal 0.1 seconds too late, that guy is dead. This makes healing really hard, which makes it very stressing, which makes it no fun.

Unless they change the TTK, I'll probably stop healing at pvp at all. Haven't tried tanking yet, but I have a bad feeling about that too... I used to already die fast since I do pretty much only pugging, now I'll probably die super-fast if I do proper tanking with guards and all.

[Kalliadies]

I can escape if someone attacks me, yeah, but it's pretty much that if I start casting my big heal when a guy has 50% of his hp, there's a high possibility that he's dead before my cast is finished. or he has 5%, which means that if I start casting my heal 0.1 seconds too late, that guy is dead. This makes healing really hard, which makes it very stressing, which makes it no fun.

Unless they change the TTK, I'll probably stop healing at pvp at all. Haven't tried tanking yet, but I have a bad feeling about that too... I used to already die fast since I do pretty much only pugging, now I'll probably die super-fast if I do proper tanking with guards and all.

 

I guess i can see your frustration. But on the other side, You know how frustrating it is putting out big numbers and using everything you have as a dps, and NOT being able to kill a healer, or who he is healing.

 

before a healer was pretty sufficient. A healer with a tank was god mode. higher damage was needed imo

Edited April 11, 2013 by Kalliadies

[Jaiyne]

Yeah, I'm getting 650k+ consistently with my operative healer, wearing nothing but weapons . Problem is, without the right comp, you're going to have a lot of trouble.

 

I get insane healing numbers too - that is not the point. It's all scoreboard healing. It's ineffective healing that is not able to keep up a focused target while under pressure. 1400HPS in a voidstar today just shy of 2million total heals...all fluff healing.

[foxmob]

heh. a lot of ppl on my server (good ones) seem to have shelved their pyros. I think it's still effective. but (at least in lowbie) shadows/sins are just wrecking everyone. I'm dying while in stun in 1v1 against them on the pyro (no breaker).

 

never had that happen before. ever. not sure if it's a lowbie imbalance or what though...as I'm level locked. this leads me to...3 early access is cool and all, but I'm not wild about being in the same pool as ppl who are not lvl locked. meh.

[LiveandDieinLA]

I guess i can see your frustration. But on the other side, You know how frustrating it is putting out big numbers and using everything you have as a dps, and NOT being able to kill a healer, or who he is healing.

 

before a healer was pretty sufficient. A healer with a tank was god mode. higher damage was needed imo

 

That may be true man, but when everyone can hit 10k crits and everyone have like 20k hp the skill cap of the game goes way down.

[Avicii]

That may be true man, but when everyone can hit 10k crits and everyone have like 20k hp the skill cap of the game goes way down.

 

Agree the TTK is worse then the 1.2 change or at least it feels that way to me playing a tank in pugs. This bolster is suppose to allow for better tuning so hopefully they get on it ASAP for us.