PvP Bolster is actually working as intended design, hear me out.

[Ashuranrx]

C'mon Ash - I like your posts and I like that your trying to approach this debacle rationally and logically.

 

But you can't seriously think that naked PvP is working as intended/?

 

In this bolster system, Green gear (without expertise) is still better than naked, Blue gear is still better than green, and purple gear is still better than blue. The system makes sense. I think the bolster for empty slots was originally intended to help lowbies who couldn't find, or new players who doesn't know how to find gear for some empty slots. I see Bolster to empty slots are still slightly inferior to geared slots without expertise, which makes sense, as expertise are only meant to separate endgame PvP and PvE and not meant to exist in pre-55 gear. Therefore, I do think bolster to empty slots is working as intended to provide competitiveness to lowbies and newbies with empty slots in WZs.

 

As for "naked PvP", which implies that all gear slots are empty to obtain designed bolster effect, I think it is a temporary side-effect for players who have not yet understand how the new PvP system works in 2.0. Once players understand that wearing something without expertise is better than wearing nothing at all, then I think naked PvP will disappear quickly. And this is the goal of my post, to help everyone understand and consequentially, wear something and get rid of naked pvp.

[Soxbadger]

Yeah it was late so we only tested pve v pvp gear. Since it was also late I dont really remember if stats were boosting when there was no armor in the slot, or if I was just switching it back and forth without ever having the slot empty.

 

Either way by the end of tonight I think people will have a good grasp on whether naked pvp > pve pvp.

 

If naked pvp beats out pve pvp, the only conclusion is its broken or that they are moving away from gear in pvp and its just going to be based on skill.

 

And if thats the case why not just give everyone the same stats to start?

[Ybini]

EWH is worse than going naked?

[Soxbadger]

EWH is worse than going naked?

 

I only had a few hours to play pvp, but from our brief testing, any armor that had expertise was seemingly worse than equivalent armor without expertise.

 

Basically we were getting boosts of 300-400 expertise by removing all pvp gear. Not only that, we were also getting about 2-3k more hps, more healing, etc, etc.

[Ybini]

I only had a few hours to play pvp, but from our brief testing, any armor that had expertise was seemingly worse than equivalent armor without expertise.

 

Basically we were getting boosts of 300-400 expertise by removing all pvp gear. Not only that, we were also getting about 2-3k more hps, more healing, etc, etc.

 

So people with Uber PVE gear are they stomping everyone in pvp now then?

[UltimateKrucible]

In this bolster system, Green gear (without expertise) is still better than naked, Blue gear is still better than green, and purple gear is still better than blue. The system makes sense..

 

Ash, as I say, I'm enjoying your attempts to rationalise this fiasco.... A clear-headed argument is rare on these forums. But here's the PvP dev Alex Modny speaking about Bolster and expertise:

 

 

A tangent of this Bolster change is the adjustments to the Expertise stat. In Game Update 2.0, the maximum Expertise possible to have on your character will be 2018. Wearing a full set of any of the new PvP sets, War Hero, or Elite War Hero gear will put players at that 2018 expertise cap. In addition, Expertise no longer suffers from diminishing returns. The first point is as effective as the 2018th. Once you get your full set of PvP gear you will have the max of your ‘PvP stat’.

 

Note the emphasis on the old sets still beig relevant - something that's patently not the case. Maybe you're being wilfully ignorant on this, but any fool can see that PvP became a broken mess thanks to bolster today.

Edited April 9, 2013 by UltimateKrucible

[DharmaPolice]

"Naked" is only better than WH and EWH, which are not meant to exist in the current system. Greens without expertise are still better than naked, blue better than greens, and purples better than blues (assuming they are at the same level).

This isn't actually true for all items / slots I'm afraid. I've tried both PVE and PVP gear for my Shadow boots and my overall stats (expertise, HP, mainhand damage) all drop when either is equipped. I have a similar issue with Relics - all three that I've tried (EWH, Dread Guard and a random cheap one) lower my stats when equipped.

 

Overall, I get 4k less HP if I equip my tanking PVE gear compared to wearing basically nothing. Not all item slots seem to face the same problem - I've had best results from equipping just a main hand, off-hand and a chest piece (all PVE). That leaves my Shadow (after exotech stim) with something like 32k HP and relatively difficult to kill.

 

There maybe items I can find which will leave me better than naked, but certainly not every item as you suggest.

Edited April 9, 2013 by DharmaPolice

[Exeeter]

People are failing to understand that lvl 50 gear is no longer in any shape or form end game. What ash is saying is precise and to the point, yes I hate to break it to all of you but pve gear is bis pre 55, just as it was bis in 10-49 as expertise was not a relevant stat proir to dealing with stat budgets and balance between lvl 50 pve gear and lvl 50 pvp gear. The exact same scenario applies here once 55 is reached and gearing begins.

 

Lvl 55 end game gear is itemized appropriately to create incentive and reward those that partake in both pvp and pve, again your being a complete fool if you think pve will be BiS for WZs at 55.

 

Bw could have done a better job laying out the right approach players should have taken when getting ready for 2.0 but to be honest myslef as well as many others who come from other mmos were well aware that it was pointless to farm wh gear so close to 2.0

 

As far as the naked issue I agree with ashs assessment as well however it needs to be handled soon.

[windogie]

My Character Shajeed, who is a level 31 vanguard has 28k health in pvp and 66% damage reduction now if i remove all my gear which i do not have any expertise at all in any of my equipped items. I gain 2k health and my reduction goes up to 69%. The system broke yo.

[kirorx]

No what happened is BW has wasted my ****ng time yet again. All the work I put into the last year gaining WH gear for 5 50's is now thrown out the window. Now BW you might not give a **** cause you are getting your $15 but I do. This is the second strike against you, one more and I will take my business elsewhere.

 

This is by no means an attempt to flame you be insulting, but.......

 

I think you are seeing things incorrectly......PvP is part of the game, and its supposed to be fun.

 

Playing the game is the fun part, not the gear itself. So your time was not wasted....you were playing the game. (technically it's all wasted time, but that's not the point )

 

Sure you have to get gear again but it cant be that hard. It was not that hard to get the warhero sets before and the ranked took a long time, but really IMO....it was such a small boost...i never really felt i needed that gear and definitally did not notice if someone else had it.

 

The point I am trying to make is that you need to start enjoying PVP for the the PvP and look at the gear as a bonus not a necessity.

 

If you dont worry about the gear or the comms you just enjoy playing it's alot more fun and the gear will just seem to come with little effort.

 

This is why i still fight in warzones even when the team has lost.

 

Here is an example of something fun; during the gree event i ran into flagged republic trooper and after rather long battle i force pushed him off a cliff...that was FUN, no points, no comms....just FUN

[river_of_Gem]

I like how you write a super long article with "logical thinking" but failed to see the point.

 

I got about 2k less HP and 100 main stat if i decide to pvp in my min/maxed DG instead of naked ( with MH + OH ), now tell me it's "intended design"

 

still, i don't really care since real man fight naked

 

edit : and just FYI, this is a bug and was admited by Bioware : http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6121757#post6121757

Edited April 10, 2013 by river_of_Gem

[Ashenshuggar]

What happens when you put on any gear with stats on it as opposed to going naked with just weapons? Any stat screws you, not just exp. That can't be intended. Edited April 10, 2013 by Ashenshuggar

[Zunayson]

Step 1: Remove all exp from ALL non-55 gear

Step 2: Return bolster to the old way with all brackets except for 55

?????

PROFIT: Endgame pvp and pve seperated, and pve and pvp still intermix without the op WHs who dont buy the xpac

[Rheemus]

Step 1: Remove all exp from ALL non-55 gear

Step 2: Return bolster to the old way with all brackets except for 55

?????

PROFIT: Endgame pvp and pve seperated, and pve and pvp still intermix without the op WHs who dont buy the xpac

 

HAHAAH IDIOT OP its NOT working as intended now read Biowares lead developers OWN words here and **** !

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6121757#post6121757

 

Short story its a BUG they ADMIT and they even admit its so broken that 10-54 WZ is frustrating..now eat it !

[Nickodemous]

hahaah idiot op its not working as intended now read biowares lead developers own words here and **** !

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6121757#post6121757

 

short story its a bug they admit and they even admit its so broken that 10-54 wz is frustrating..now eat it !

 

 

^ amen

[DarthRaika]

If BW is going to be dumb enough to make min/maxd wh weaker than being naked then they should just go the easier route and give everyone of a certain class the same base stats for the max lvl of their range (of course specs can still change those stats accordingly).

 

This would be far easier for the idiots at bw to get right and make for very even gameplay. Any true pvpr can't argue with this even if it did make their gear not matter while lvl'n.

 

However, making wh worse than regular gear is one of the biggest slaps in the face to pvp'rs I have ever experienced in my over 10 years of playing mmos. I will give them a while to fix it but otherwise I'm going back to Rift and BW can lose my 100 bucks a month because if they don't fix it soon then it shows that they don't give a crap about pvp.

[Zunayson]

HAHAAH IDIOT OP its NOT working as intended now read Biowares lead developers OWN words here and **** !

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6121757#post6121757

 

Short story its a BUG they ADMIT and they even admit its so broken that 10-54 WZ is frustrating..now eat it !

 

I wasn't op, and i know it's broken,

 

was advising steps as to how a bolster could seperate endgame pvp and pve as op suggested while still allowing leveling characters to actually make a choice while leveling. Exp was only for 50s in the past, so now only make it for 55s.

 

Just my 2 credits, glad they're fixing it

[Thorexelfury]

(edit)

 

And if they want to make it so there is no gear progression, everyone is naked in PVP and its purely skill, Id be d0wn

 

 

 

Skill ya like call of duty skill no plan no point Welcome to call of duty starwar style the only skill is hack or mindless zerg and mad keyboard skill. So pvp naked is skill?

Edited April 10, 2013 by Thorexelfury
mis sent

[SwiftDuck]

If they fix the naked bolster ill be happy. As this makes no sense. This is not the intent of an mmo. If they wanted us to play naked it would have been in the patch notes saying "All players below level 55 MUST remove all articles of clothing before entering any WZ. Failure to do so will result in loss of stats" It didnt say this. So please fix it. thx

[Nategray]

Brown nosing would imply that I am trying to obtain some kind of advantage, acceptance, or approval from either the players or BW. But that would be a no to your questions. I intentionally don't even have signatures to identify myself. I am just as anonymous as you are. All I present is logic and thoughts, which you disagree and I am cool with.

 

You are not using logic at all you are defending a broken system.

And for the they obsolete your gear in all mmos people bullocks, they put out better gear sure but nothing like making your gear so bad its better to be naked thats a new fail by EA/bio

[DocHolidaySWTOR]

All PvP vendors that provided PvP gear for level 20 – 50 were removed in patch 2.0. In 2.0, we cannot obtain PvP gear until level 55, and there is no PvP gear until level 55. Therefore, Bolster is actually designed for a PvP system where obtaining expertise is, or should be impossible prior to level 55. This makes sense because expertise is meant to separate endgame PvP and PvE contents; before level 55, PvP and PvE intermix just fine.

 

The expertise we have from WH and EWH gear were obtained from pre-2.0 patch, and are not meant to exist or be useful in the 2.0 patch. I speculate the way Bolster works in the pre-level 55 WZ brackets is that the system bolsters the character’s stats base on each armoring (or hilt or barrel), mod, and enhancement levels assuming that there is no expertise on any of the slot, because expertise is not supposed to exist in any equipment for pre-level 55 characters in the 2.0 system. Therefore, when we go into warzones with expertise in the 30-54 WZ bracket, we actually lose stats value in our gear to expertise when bolstered.

 

The bolster system is not broken. Rather, the bolster system broke our WH and EWH gear and made them obsolete. Just imagine, if no one has any WH and EWH gear and everyone just wears the gear as they are leveling up from 1-54 with no expertise in them, then this system is actually perfectly balanced for warzone because everyone will be more on equal playing field in stats and the only differences in power between characters are class skills and skill tree points.

 

I speculate that the way PvP is meant to be played in pre-55 warzone brackets in 2.0 is: play warzones and get WZ comms, trade WZ comms in for planetary comms, and upgrade gear with stuff traded with planetary comms. No expertise in gear brought into pre-55 warzones.

 

So what is the solution for current level 50 PvPers? Throw away WH and EWH gear that are meant to be obsolete in 2.0 and use gear with no expertise in warzones, as the current system is meant to work. Personally, I am not complaining because in the long run, this system actually balances lowby warzone brackets very well. The only temporary flaw of this system is that instead of slowly phasing out WH and EWH gear, WH and EWH gear got instantaneously obsolete in 2.0. So everyone is feeling this “shock” right now from the sudden change.

 

I can agree I am rather liking it myself, the naked fighting is a bug that is being fixed as stated in Dev Tracker so once its over the 2.0 Bolster should be working rather fine unless more bugs appear.

Edited April 10, 2013 by DocHolidaySWTOR

[sleepymonkeyz]

"So what is the solution for current level 50 PvPers? Throw away WH and EWH gear that are meant to be obsolete in 2.0 and use gear with no expertise in warzones, as the current system is meant to work. Personally, I am not complaining because in the long run, this system actually balances lowby warzone brackets very well. The only temporary flaw of this system is that instead of slowly phasing out WH and EWH gear, WH and EWH gear got instantaneously obsolete in 2.0. So everyone is feeling this “shock” right now from the sudden change."

 

 

Personally (and i dont think i'm the only), I AM complaining because the "shock" everyone's feeling right now its because you just WASTED our time and effort we put up to get those WH and EWH. People here spent hours and hours in wzs and a couple of days ago they had the best pvp gear and today what do you suggest to do with our gear???

" Throw away WH and EWH gear". Do you ever tried to gather that kind of gear? Do you have a clue how long i've been fighting to get this gear and now i should just throw it away eh? Because its "obsolete". A couple of days ago it was the best pvp gear in the game now its "obsolete". Personally i dont think that this system is balancing anything either it just makes lowbies overpowered and 50s useless. Lastly, I can tell you that MANY ppl are very UNHAPPY with this "2.0 system". Just because you added an expansion doesnt mean that you have the RIGHT to cancel our gear, our effort, our time (not to mention our f* money). This is how you encourage dedicated players continue playing the game...

Edited April 10, 2013 by sleepymonkeyz

[Ridickilis]

Well, after a night of pvping on my 30 something toons, bolster is actually great if you have all up to date blue planetary mods. So It's not as bad as I had thought it was going to be. I still think they need to fix the 'naked' bug, those are the 50's that get more out of bolster running naked than using their 50 pvp gear. I think that's the main gripe people have with the new system. They should have more than the 2018 expertise that someone gets with no expertise. Defiantly not less than that, as it stands now.

 

I really like the change to planetary comms, making them universal rather than planet specific. It makes gearing up for pvp that much easier in the lowbie bracket. I had so many dead coms from low level planets that I never used because I was out leveled. The 40-1 trade in is rather steep but doing the math it looks like it's still a bit cheaper than buying the old 20/40 pvp gear with pvp coms. 280 coms for a armor or hilt, 80 coms apiece for mods and enhancements. That's 440 comms per set (so long as you already have orange equipment), I think the old prices were somewhere around 475 per piece. So it's close.

 

A side note/observation; I wonder why they didn't leave 10-49 alone and made the middle bracket 50-54?

Edited April 10, 2013 by Ridickilis

[Briljin]

Every MMO makes old gear obsolete when it expands. SWTOR is not unique in this. Just that BW did it with a "shock" instead of a gradual phase out for WH and EWH gear, that was BW's mistake.

 

It's not an issue of making older gear obsolete, it is the fact you are actually better off NOT EVEN USING it that is the issue. Being better off using 2 year old PvE gear instead of EWH gear means the system is flawed. The bolster was a decent enough idea but one that is clearly not being well thought out or handled.

[Ashuranrx]

I converted all my WZ and Ranked WZ comms to planet comms last night, went to the Makeb Comm vendor, and traded for purple mods. I kept repeating this until i got a full set of Makeb modded gear. Then I replaced my WH Ear piece and implants with some purples I bought off GTM. As for relics, I used my Datacron cube in one slot and left the other one empty. I had 0 expertise with this set.

 

This was the BiS I got as a 50 in the 30-54 bracket WZ. My stats in the WZ were defintely better than the naked guys. Besides the relic slots giving too good of a bolster to an empty slot, this system is defintely good. I had a blast PvPing. I will be saving to max my WZ and ranked WZ comms again before going into 55.

 

I think the old endgame PvP and PvE sets get screwed by the system somehow. But I don't think it matters much, because these old sets will be flushed out of the system in a week or two and they won't be obtainable again in the future anyway.