TheTenken Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 wow they ruined our ewh gear good job... and the death of open world pvp is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SystemProcess Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I just wanted to let all of you know that I have been reading over the thread and am continually passing the feedback and questions on to the combat team. Some of the confusion I am seeing is around the removal of Expertise from WH/EWH and its relation to PvE gear. I am working with those guys on getting some math around it all to hopefully clear some things up. I won't have any new information today, I just wanted you folks to be aware that I am actively watching the thread and working with the Combat/PvP folks on getting answers to some of your questions. Thanks! -eric PS - If you haven't read some of our prior PvP posts in this thread and others it is possible your questions were answered there. You can view them here, here, and here. Thanks for sorting through and picking the gems out of 100 pages of nonsense, eric. Hopefully we get an answer soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMKSED Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I just wanted to let all of you know that I have been reading over the thread and am continually passing the feedback and questions on to the combat team. Some of the confusion I am seeing is around the removal of Expertise from WH/EWH and its relation to PvE gear. I am working with those guys on getting some math around it all to hopefully clear some things up. I won't have any new information today, I just wanted you folks to be aware that I am actively watching the thread and working with the Combat/PvP folks on getting answers to some of your questions. Thanks! -eric PS - If you haven't read some of our prior PvP posts in this thread and others it is possible your questions were answered there. You can view them here, here, and here. I have a 58 armoring mod that has 25 expertise in my WH gear. I know I can just switch the mod out but I'm currently not 55 and no longer have access to WH/EWH purchases. But because of that 25 expertise I lost nearly 400-500 expertise when I go into Warzones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeochins Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 (edited) No. Just no. The cap is raised and new gear should be the goal now. Your EWH will and should be outdated. The same applies for PvEers. They need to grind a new set as well. Outdated yes, but to be outdated against no gear at all seemed very retarded. And to be subpar in comparison to PvE gear is another instance of developer stupidity at its finest. What you have is the following analogy: You need to PvP to have the better raid gear than the best raid gear. Edited April 16, 2013 by Yeochins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanReagan Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I just wanted to let all of you know that I have been reading over the thread and am continually passing the feedback and questions on to the combat team. Some of the confusion I am seeing is around the removal of Expertise from WH/EWH and its relation to PvE gear. I am working with those guys on getting some math around it all to hopefully clear some things up. I won't have any new information today, I just wanted you folks to be aware that I am actively watching the thread and working with the Combat/PvP folks on getting answers to some of your questions. Thanks! -eric PS - If you haven't read some of our prior PvP posts in this thread and others it is possible your questions were answered there. You can view them here, here, and here. Now to the point where I have to login and ask what the new "tricks" are for the bolster system before I start to PvP each day. And if I die in a battle that seems one-sided I have to wonder if that dude is doing something funky to get an advantage, if it is straight up class imbalance, if he got a relic double-proc or what.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebreaker Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 My biggest issue is with the removal of Expertise, and it's effect on Open World PvP. Yes, I like the WZ grind, and don't mind having the playing fields leveled SOLELY due to this being a low population game. Honestly, t's the only way to keep the PvP population entertained, because if the brackets were a 10 level spread, the queues wouldn't be very active at certain levels. Got it. But now it seems that the pre-55 PvP gear, although much more easily acquired than PvE; is essentially PvE gear for those using it out of WZs. I am very rarely one that complains about changes, because they are often fairly minor, and are common among mmorpgs. However, changes that render my previous invested time useless, are extremely discouraging. I like to have a slight advantage (that I worked for) when conducting open-world PvP against a target that is decked out in end-game PvE gear (that they worked for). Different applications of gear, but only one has been rendered less effective. Skill is irreplaceable, but better primary stats can still make a huge difference. The quick answer is to just grind for the level 55 PvP gear to get the Expertise back. HOWEVER, I am skeptical about wasting time with that, if the current answers to my invested time is to have the rewards nullified in updates. WZ equality I am in disagreeance with, but more ok with. Open World equality, I am not, because Expertise is the only advantage I have against the larger end-game PvE base of players that roam the world. Both parties worked hard for the gear advantage they have/had, yet only one is getting screwed. Vent complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khalhazar Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Now to the point where I have to login and ask what the new "tricks" are for the bolster system before I start to PvP each day. And if I die in a battle that seems one-sided I have to wonder if that dude is doing something funky to get an advantage, if it is straight up class imbalance, if he got a relic double-proc or what.... This is a big concern for me, as well. If we can't trust that the system works, how can we properly gear ourselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twin Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I just wanted to let all of you know that I have been reading over the thread and am continually passing the feedback and questions on to the combat team. Some of the confusion I am seeing is around the removal of Expertise from WH/EWH and its relation to PvE gear. I am working with those guys on getting some math around it all to hopefully clear some things up. I won't have any new information today, I just wanted you folks to be aware that I am actively watching the thread and working with the Combat/PvP folks on getting answers to some of your questions. Thanks! -eric Do you really need to ask around if anyone thought about open world pvp before they ripped out expertise from our gear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boch Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 So your answer is to remove the advantage i spent hundreds of hours working to have over scrubs with no/lesser gear? Well i wont be paying you anymore if your are just going to socialize/obamatize pvp. Consider this sub cancelled. You have till the end of the month to put back the advantage of working for gear. I dont play this game to be 'equal'. I play, and work, for many many hours to have better gear that gives me an advantage, and if you think im going to start that grind all over again with new pvp gear, with no regard for all the work i have put into me EWH set, you are mistaken. Get your head out of your *** biuoware! If you think sitting around for countless hours playing a game is work, then you are in for a rude awakening when you grow up and get a real job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omophorus Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Do you really need to ask around if anyone thought about open world pvp before they ripped out expertise from our gear? And all 10 people who care seriously about open world PVP and didn't quit a year ago when Ilum failed are up in arms today! No, they didn't think about it because the worlds are designed to separate factions during leveling and there's no viable open world PVP at cap unless you instigate it yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawginole Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 If you think sitting around for countless hours playing a game is work, then you are in for a rude awakening when you grow up and get a real job. You're a moron. I have two bachelors, three masters, a fantastic job and am working on my phd and that does not in the slightest take away from the fact that to acquire BiS gear in this game takes effort and is work. Don't be a dick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SystemProcess Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 You're a moron. I have two bachelors, three masters, a fantastic job and am working on my phd and that does not in the slightest take away from the fact that to acquire BiS gear in this game takes effort and is work. Don't be a dick. I think his point was more like... it's a game, it shouldn't be -considered- work. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boch Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 You're a moron. I have two bachelors, three masters, a fantastic job and am working on my phd and that does not in the slightest take away from the fact that to acquire BiS gear in this game takes effort and is work. Don't be a dick. No one cares. But if a game feels like work, find a new hobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistols Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 No one cares. You did obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthAnvil Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Every time you all "adjust" pvp gameplay, you **** it up. You've essentially rendered all the time and effort that those of us spent to obtain and optimize top level pvp gear a total waste, with your latest "fix" (removal of expertise). Who's to say you won't do the same thing with Partisan/Conqueror come future updates, again making the grind you currently intend for us to embark upon pointless in the end? Why don't you just leave **** alone? It's a wonder this game is still being played by anyone, especially pvpers, since you all clearly are intent on maintaining a predominant pve focus. How could you not foresee the imminent nonsense that would come with your grand idea of "bolster?" Thanks a lot for nothing but headache, which seems to be the only constant in each and every patch/update you all drop on us. Way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatModi Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Is it just me or is it kind of comical that the Devs are replying to a "lol bolster" thread and didnt take the time to make an "Official 2.0 pvp concerns" thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewkrew Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Every time you all "adjust" pvp gameplay, you **** it up. You've essentially rendered all the time and effort that those of us spent to obtain and optimize top level pvp gear a total waste, with your latest "fix" (removal of expertise). Who's to say you won't do the same thing with Partisan/Conqueror come future updates, again making the grind you currently intend for us to embark upon pointless in the end? Why don't you just leave **** alone? It's a wonder this game is still being played by anyone, especially pvpers, since you all clearly are intent on maintaining a predominant pve focus. How could you not foresee the imminent nonsense that would come with your grand idea of "bolster?" Thanks a lot for nothing but headache, which seems to be the only constant in each and every patch/update you all drop on us. Way to go. Getting Partisan is already pointless. I can take my armorings out of my EWH gear now and have better stats then with my full set of partisan gear on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twin Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 If you think sitting around for countless hours playing a game is work, then you are in for a rude awakening when you grow up and get a real job. So I cant say "Im working towards getting my pvp gear" without you coming on telling me "its not your job"? You dont understand how that word can sometimes be used to describe hours spent on trying to achieve a goal, wether its a fun activity or not? Yeah, he really needs to grow up for using that word to describe getting his gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 (edited) You did obviously. Saying "no one cares" does not imply that one does indeed care. That's a fallacy that needs to end. Anyway... I agree that EWH gear should be out dated by current gear. If you are whining and crying about having to gear up again, you are playing the wrong game. And NO ONE CARES if you have 7 bachelors, 12 masters, and a PHD in quantum physics. That's doesnt give you any credit here. MMos are about the journey, not the goal. If they were about simply competing in the best gear then we would all be given the best gear, for free, when you log in. These games are about gearing up, the time, the energy, the fun that comes from PvP and PvE. Every major expansion that introduces new gear will force you to gear up. Unless the game is a horizontal progression game or some other type of experience, that is how it works. That's said, all gear should receive some nominal expertise value when in WZs. The gap between some expertise and zero expertise is too great to even be considered fair or competitive. Edited April 16, 2013 by Arkerus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistols Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Saying "no one cares" does not imply that one does indeed care. That's a fallacy that needs to end. No one cares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetoAtreidesII Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 (edited) Now to the point where I have to login and ask what the new "tricks" are for the bolster system before I start to PvP each day. And if I die in a battle that seems one-sided I have to wonder if that dude is doing something funky to get an advantage, if it is straight up class imbalance, if he got a relic double-proc or what.... One of the great things about the system we had before that I never appreciated was transparency - WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get). Thanks to bolster, we no longer have transparency at level 55. We used to know exactly what our stats would be in PvP without having to check our character sheets inside a warzone - they were the same stats we had on our gear. This is one of drawbacks of this bolster system - the fact that it is confusing to anyone who cares about and wants to optimize their stats. Now the stats on our gear are no longer necessarily the stats we have in warzones - what you see is NOT what you get. Now we have to have out of game knowledge of how the bolster system works in order to figure out what our stats will be and to optimize them. We have to know that Partisan/Conqueror will essentially be untouched by bolster, that we should never mix and match PvP and PvE mods in the same item, and that supposedly Partisan/Conqueror is better than all PvE gear (which has yet to be proven, and there may yet be some PvE/PvP gear combos that may outshine pure Conqueror). If we all wanted to be equal when pvping we would play Guildwars, but we don't we prefer a gear grind and hence why we are playing swtor. Exactly. People who want gear to not matter and for there to be a completely level playing field in PvP already have an entire game built around that - it's called Guild Wars 2. The more SWTOR is like GW2, the more people will just play GW2 instead, and the more people who dislike GW2 will leave SWTOR. Edited April 16, 2013 by LetoAtreidesII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomasbaxter Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 "WZ equality I am in disagreeance with, but more ok with. Open World equality, I am not, because Expertise is the only advantage I have against the larger end-game PvE base of players that roam the world." This is sorta my consensus. Well I'm not just ok with warzone equality I love it. I think expertise should be utilised for open world etc on ilum etc but for me PVP and warzones should be kept separate. I don't care about PVP at all but i love the warzones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kegparty Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 (edited) Bolster Comparison Pictures level 33 Green vs EWH Aug Implant Wearing the Green Added Endurance + Damage + Crit + Expertise + Alacrity but dropped some crit and surge Edited April 16, 2013 by Kegparty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blasterproof Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 One of the great things about the system we had before that I never appreciated was transparency - WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get). Thanks to bolster, we no longer have transparency at level 55. We used to know exactly what our stats would be in PvP without having to check our character sheets inside a warzone - they were the same stats we had on our gear. Nailed it. Nicely said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khalhazar Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Bolster Comparison Pictures level 25 Green vs EWH Aug Implant Wearing the Green Added Endurance + Damage + Crit + Expertise + Alacrity but dropped some crit and surge Wow. This is after their bolster-fixing patch? Sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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