Developer Update: Legacy Achievements

[BJWyler]

Awesome, However does this mean the broken Codex entries will be sorted out so that we can start getting them complete?

 

I have a question, as the codex system has been broken since launch for some codex entrys, are these recorded even if they dont show up and not require us todo them again or is the codex system being replaced with the achievment system.

 

Oh just realized, there are some more titles that take quite a while to get:

 

Loremaster - get all Lore codex entries

 

Beastmaster (that just sounds awesome) - get all Beastiary Codex entries

 

Galactic Explorer- get all Location Codex entries

Galactic Hero (getting that for my Sent) - complete every Heroic mission for both factions

 

I would like to see the answer regarding the first two questions, as there are some broken codex entries that don't unlock at the appropriate places.

 

I would also like to know what happened to the idea of unlocking the datacron codexes and bonuses via Legacy that was kicked around some time ago so we don't have to get the PIA 'crons more than once, but still have our alts get the codex and boost from them.

[Machine-Elf]

Wait, you said it was because of Xbox's visibility. Now you're talking about specific games. Stick to the point. Xbox achievements and gamer score don't give tangible rewards as an overall system. People like to get them because aside from having fun playing the game you can also get a little score that signifies you've achieved something in the game and long after you've finished playing you can look up the things you did. This does nothing other than give a history of things you've done. You get nothing else. People love it. Some people play games they don't even like just to get the achievements. If you're incapable of understanding why someone would do this without getting a cookie for it then it's not a feature for you.

Most games that can be considered to have any sort of depth nowadays offer tangible rewards for completing achievements, whether it be alternate looks, weapons, difficulty modes, what have you...

 

That's the first point.

 

The second point, and the one you're having so much difficulty processing, is that achievements have much more meaning within the context of Xbox Live because of their visibility. In other words, they are only pursued because they are readily comparable by others within your (virtual) social sphere and consequently represent a means to obtain some sort of bragging rights with them.

 

Say, for instance, you and your friends buy Gears of War 2. The rate at which achievements are unlocked by your posse are on constant high-relief, so that eventually a certain element of competitiveness begins to seep in. Currently there's no platform in place to allow this to happen in SWTOR.

 

Listen, I'm glad you're super-excited for the prospect of running around with a collection of letters over your player character's head that a vast majority of the player-base won't be able to see, let alone care about, but the fact remains that this is, in its current presentation, an incredibly insubstantial addition to the game.

 

Am I excited for it? Yes, of course. It holds tremendous potential. So much so, that the possibilities I've discussed above only really scratch the surface of its possible applications. But right now, it stands out as no more than yet another missed opportunity.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Machine-Elf

[revial]

Legacy Achievements are great.

 

But, here's a question:

 

You guys/girls ever going to let us show our Legacy Relationship Tree to other players? Because, isn't it kind of pointless, even as an RP tool, without that ability?

[Ixum]

Achievements related to defeating enemies or players will not update automatically on day one

 

- Im assuming this means we won't get pre 2.0 kills from WZs either? The data is displayed on the pvp window so would be weird not getting them

[Orlesian]

Well, achievements will be kinda fun to try to collect for fun and when bored. I just hope it does not bring out more elitism or requirement for certain activities like Operations etc.

 

And really, both LS AND DS Jaesa to 10k affection for an achievement? Seriously?

Please tell me this is a mistake that will be fixed if true.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Orlesian

[ChrisMattar]

What's there to understand, don't you know that most games are built around that concept, especially multiplayer games such as mmo, all MMOs are a grind anything you do is to get a bit better this or that. That's what MMOs are and most games as well. What's the point in playing at all then, nothing you're doing matters.

And besides why do you care what people think some like it some don't, nobody is forcing you, you're getting more than enough content in 2.0 what more do you want, just ignore achievements.

 

 

So pretty much this will be used for Titles, and some that "may" give Cartel Coins. So very little use whatsoever? Why the hell am I wasting my time with this game. Seriously....If you are going to add content, add content that has inherent value, you know, something with ACTUAL in game use. I do not give a flying fig if I get some "so-called awsome-sauce" title. What frikkin good is that going to do except tell everyone in game how I wasted my time to get some stupid title? Am I the only person in this game that see's this?? :confused:

[DaRoamer]

Most games that can be considered to have any sort of depth nowadays offer tangible rewards for completing achievements, whether it be alternate looks, weapons, difficulty modes, what have you...

 

That's just a flat out lie. Show me a game on Xbox that gives you any of that for unlocking an achievement, let alone MOST of them.

 

The second point, and the one you're having so much difficulty processing, is that achievements have much more meaning within the context of Xbox Live because of their visibility. In other words, they are only pursued because they are readily comparable by others within your (virtual) social sphere and consequently represent a means to obtain some sort of bragging rights with them.

 

Say, for instance, you and your friends buy Gears of War 2. The rate at which achievements are unlocked by your posse are on constant high-relief, so that eventually a certain element of competitiveness begins to seep in. Currently there's no platform in place to allow this to happen in SWTOR.

 

So they pop up for your friends when you do something? That happens here when it's spammed to guild chat. If you want to directly compare achievement you have to look at your friend's profile, same as here.

 

Listen, I'm glad you're super-excited for the prospect of running around with a collection of letters over your player character's head that a vast majority of the player-base won't be able to see, let alone care about, but the fact remains that this is, in its current presentation, an incredibly insubstantial addition to the game.

 

I'm sure you have some proof that the VAST MAJORITY of players turn this off? Why does almost everyone have a title displayed if you think no one will see them?

[ChrisMattar]

Loving the achievement system and glad to see you will keep developing it, pretty excited about that.

I hope the rewards will be more enticing in the future though, id love to see some cool pets or vehicles up for grabs.

 

*Also you can only use one title at a time, but having something like little stars besides your name like an army rank type thing would look fantastic and would be a way to check out a player's status on the fly.

[Isaacone]

I was watching a video on youtube of update 2.0 and this achievement system. From my understanding from the video you could get free cartel coins and titles with this

[Machine-Elf]

That's just a flat out lie. Show me a game on Xbox that gives you any of that for unlocking an achievement, let alone MOST of them.

Well, Arkham City was the last game I played on the Xbox. Completing achievements in that game, whether it be through progression, or through the completion of in-game (Riddler) challenges, allowed you to retrieve character trophies, a new game mode (new game plus), new character models, and unlock new challenge scenarios.

 

Same applies to Gears of War 2, the Uncharted and God of War series, Call of Duty...

 

Even a game going as far back as Resident Evil 4 rewarded you with content like new game modes, weapons, character models and even new mini-games and documentaries.

 

Where have you been the last 5-6 years?

Edited April 4, 2013 by Machine-Elf

[DaRoamer]

Well, Arkham City was the last game I played on the Xbox. Completing achievements in that game, whether it be through progression, or through the completion of in-game (Riddler) challenges, allowed you retrieve character trophies, a new game mode (new game plus), new character models, and unlock new challenge scenarios.

 

Gears of War 2, the Uncharted and God of War, and Call of Duty series...

 

Even a game as far back as Resident Evil 4 rewarded you with content like new game modes, weapons, character models and even new mini-games and documentaries.

 

Where have you been the last 5-6 years?

 

Are you being obtuse on purpose? I've been very clear I'm talking Xbox achievements and gamer score. Xbox gamer score is almost exactly like the system they are implementing here. A series of activities completed in the game that give you a small score and an overall prestige score that sums up the point totals of every individual achievement. You already get rewards for completing things in the game just like you do in those games.

 

Also, where do your Riddler trophies show up so your friends can see them and compare?

[Machine-Elf]

I'm sure you have some proof that the VAST MAJORITY of players turn this off? Why does almost everyone have a title displayed if you think no one will see them?

 

You're right, I may have exagerrated a bit there. I have no proof that the VAST MAJORITY of players turn nameplates off.

 

But remember, just because they have titles on doesn't mean they care about it. On rare occasions even I have been known to switch titles on my character—either because I thought it sounded cool, or felt it fit well with my Legacy surname—but to be honest, it's the kind of thing that provides just about as much joy for me as fiddling with the degree of opacity on the map, or tinkering with chat functions.

 

I do use nameplates for enemy player characters, though. Would be pretty tough to navigate warzones scenarios without them.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Machine-Elf

[Machine-Elf]

Are you being obtuse on purpose? I've been very clear I'm talking Xbox achievements and gamer score. Xbox gamer score is almost exactly like the system they are implementing here. A series of activities completed in the game that give you a small score and an overall prestige score that sums up the point totals of every individual achievement. You already get rewards for completing things in the game just like you do in those games.

 

Are you serious? Every single one of those unlockables come in the form of Xbox achievements! This is simply due to the fact that, well...the games were designed for that specific platform. Just the same way as a game that was designed for the Playstation will unlock achievements in the form of Trophies.

 

I mean, what would be the alternative, unlocking achievements for the amount of hours you keep the console's power on?

 

Now who's being obtuse.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Machine-Elf

[DaRoamer]

Are you serious? Every single one of those unlockables come in the form of Xbox achievements, simply due to the fact that, well...the games were designed for that specific platform. Just the same way as a game that was designed for the Playstation will unlock achievements in the form of Trophies.

 

I mean, what would be alternative, unlocking achievements for the amount of hours you keep the console's power on?

 

Now who's being obtuse.

 

Still you. None the Xbox achievements are the same as the in-game stuff like Riddler trophies. Two separate sets of achievements. You don't get anything in game for "Answering a ringing phone", for example.

 

http://www.xbox360achievements.org/game/batman-arkham-city/achievements/

 

Also, you claim that those achievements are "more visible" but you didn't answer where your Riddler trophies are displayed for your friends.

 

Are you seriously sticking to your claim that people like to get Xbox gamer score achievements because they get in-game rewards for them?

[BrianDavion]

Titles are a long outlived remnant of the past, an obsolete feature from way back in the days of Everquest (possibly even before) in which having an avatar in a shared virtual environment provided enough novelty and attraction in and of itself.

 

I'm not even sure most people even use the toggle nameplates feature nowadays (it only serves to further clutter the game's already extremely busy visual presentation), let alone care about unlocking titles.

 

plenty of people like titles. they're fun. just because YOU don't means nothing

[Machine-Elf]

Still you. None the Xbox achievements are the same as the in-game stuff like Riddler trophies. Two separate sets of achievements. You don't get anything in game for "Answering a ringing phone", for example.

 

Please, get real for a second.

 

All Xbox Live does is track the sum-total of achievements a player has unlocked from his or her game collection and translate them into gamer points. I can guarantee you Microsoft isn't obsessive enough of a micro-manager to the point of developing its own separate achievement system for every single game that's ever been released for their platform.

 

They are not separate achievements. There are some in-game achievements which don't automatically translate to "Xbox achievements", but this is because Microsoft placed a hard-cap on the amount of total gamer points each game is able to provide so as to prevent publishers from exploiting the system, tagging their product with an unfair selling point (receive more gamer points from this game than any other!).

 

Basically what they did is present their platform to developers and said "Look guys, our system is able to track achievements... you might want to look into that". Next thing you know, and achievements are ubiquitous.

 

Look, I'm sorry but this debate is over. I can't possibly continue to argue with someone who seriously entertained the notion that Microsoft had a giant workforce dedicated solely to playing thousands of games to completion in order to determine how to best build its own proprietary achievement system around it.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Machine-Elf

[PurpleLynx]

Titles are a long outlived remnant of the past, an obsolete feature from way back in the days of Everquest (possibly even before) in which having an avatar in a shared virtual environment provided enough novelty and attraction in and of itself.

 

I'm not even sure most people even use the toggle nameplates feature nowadays (it only serves to further clutter the game's already extremely busy visual presentation), let alone care about unlocking titles.

 

And you would be wrong. A lot of COH players are used to the idea of badge hunting..hours spent looking for exploration and lore badges, killing 1000 of one type of critter to get kill badges...and more...LOTRO have deeders, same thing, kill so many creatures to get a title and traits, and some turbine points. Titles are great for some people. I love this idea personally. So don't even try and speak for all, or even most players. Speak for yourself, you don't like it. Cool, I get that. Don't do it then.

[Machine-Elf]

And you would be wrong. A lot of COH players are used to the idea of badge hunting..hours spent looking for exploration and lore badges, killing 1000 of one type of critter to get kill badges...and more...LOTRO have deeders, same thing, kill so many creatures to get a title and traits, and some turbine points. Titles are great for some people. I love this idea personally. So don't even try and speak for all, or even most players. Speak for yourself, you don't like it. Cool, I get that. Don't do it then.

I would never presume to speak for all players. Heck, some players are actually dedicated min/maxers that find the prospect of running through excel spreadsheets as being the epitome of fun. But just because a feature exists doesn't mean it isn't well past its sell-by-date.

 

An example of this would be SWTOR's combat system. It is modeled after old-school MMOs, and a great many people still enjoy it, but in the meantime almost every other developer (having finally figured out that the vast majority of video-game players look at a screen filled with a thousand different quick bars and instantly dismiss it as ridiculous) are adopting, and transitioning to, a much more streamlined and skill-oriented approach to combat.

 

Eventually SWTOR will have to do the same if it doesn't want to be left in the dust by its competitors. I'm sure many will then moan, grumble and gripe that their preferred method of combat is being done away with, but the fact will remain that theirs was an expired preference.

 

Same applies to achievement systems that only unlock meaningless titles.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Machine-Elf

[DaRoamer]

Please, get real for a second.

 

All Xbox Live does is track the sum-total of achievements a player has unlocked from his or her game collection and translate them into gamer points. I can guarantee you Microsoft isn't obsessive enough of a micro-manager to the point of developing its own separate achievement system for every single game that's ever been released for their platform.

 

They are not separate achievements. There are some in-game achievements which don't automatically translate to "Xbox achievements", but this is because Microsoft placed a hard-cap on the amount of total gamer points each game is able to provide so as to prevent publishers from exploiting the system, tagging their product with an unfair selling point (receive more gamer points from this game than any other!).

 

Basically what they did is present their platform to developers and said "Look guys, our system is able to track achievements... you might want to look into that". Next thing you know, and achievements are ubiquitous.

 

Look, I'm sorry but this debate is over. I can't possibly continue to argue with someone who seriously entertained the notion that Microsoft had a giant workforce dedicated solely to playing thousands of games to completion just so they can determine how to best build its own proprietary achievement system around it.

 

*facepalm*

 

You obviously either aren't understanding what I'm saying, or you're choosing not, or you're trolling. MS invented gamer points as a way of adding extra incentive for playing games. ALL games on the Xbox are required to offer gamer points. They DO NOTHING except give you things to brag about. Devs decide how to split up the 1000 points for each game into smaller achievements. All your game achievements together make up your gamer score. This gamer score gives you NOTHING. It's just a general way of saying "I play a large number of games and accomplish things in them". SOME people like to get achievements simply so that their gamer score goes up. More often, though you hopefully play games because they're fun, sometimes you might kill a few extra guys or look for a hidden thing because you get gamer points for it, not because the game gives you anything.

 

Your example of Batman giving you different skins is a COMPLETELY different system and it's specific to that game and it's not directly related to Xbox achievements that you ALSO get for playing.

 

So, going back to your original question of WHY someone would want to get these SWTOR achievements when you don't get a shiny thing from doing them the answer is because you're playing the game anyway and this simply gives you a way of tracking all the things you do and possibly grants you a nice title or some cartel coins for doing them. Some people might also want to get the achievements just because they're there and provide a goal for you to achieve, and not because you get something out of it. If you have no interest in titles or achieving something for the sake of achieving it then this isn't the system for you. I'm going to get all the crafting and gathering professions because that's what I want to do anyway, and then I'll display my Master Craftsman title for the large or small number of people who care to look.

[LadyDrusilla]

Love the look of this system, can't wait for April 9th. For me Achievements are a great incentive to do all those things I feel I ought to do (explore, collect datacrons, work on my alts crafting etc.) that I tend to slack off on.

[Machine-Elf]

The only thing that distinguishes in-game achievements from "Xbox 360 achievements" is whether or not the developer decided to allocate gamepoints to the unlocking of said achievements. Sometimes these achievements unlock tangible rewards, other times they do nothing other than add to the gamerpoints total, and some other times they even do both.

 

Whichever the case, your original argument that Xbox 360 achievements are inherently useless and players are given no incentive to do them—other than for the sake of completion—is, to put simply, just flat out wrong.

 

/end discussion

[DaRoamer]

The only thing that distinguishes in-game achievements from "Xbox 360 achievements" is whether or not the developer decided to allocate gamepoints to the unlocking of said achievements. Sometimes these achievements unlock tangible rewards, other times they do nothing other than add to the gamerpoints total, and some other times they even do both.

 

Whichever the case, your original argument that Xbox 360 achievements are inherently useless and players are given no incentive to do them—other than for the sake of completion—is, to put simply, just flat out wrong.

 

/end discussion

 

No, you're wrong. Have you ever played an Xbox 360?

 

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120109193549AAvQKic

 

http://xbox.about.com/od/xbox360faqs/f/achievementsfaq.htm

 

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110822013940AAFG1zX

[Machine-Elf]

Thanks for providing links which actually help cement my argument:

 

"Because you can easily keep track of what your friends are playing and what achievements they have through the Xbox 360 dashboard, keeping a step ahead of your friends and trying to stay on top of local leaderboards adds extra replayability to games. Earning a few more gamerscore points by finishing another race or setting a new high score gives you incentive to keep playing games long after you probably would have set it aside back in the bad old days before the Xbox 360"

 

Listen, lets just drop it and agree to disagree.

 

I'm sorry if I was hard on you, but you've caught me on an Adderall-infused bender, which tends to make me more than a little anally-retentive.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Machine-Elf

[Shai-Huluud]

Does this represent the future of the Legacy system?

 

i.e. are we to expect Legacy to be more of a title unlocking device which is infact an achievement system or are there further updates in terms of benefits and bonuses in the pipeline for Legacy?

[DaRoamer]

Thanks for providing links which actually help cement my argument:

 

"Because you can easily keep track of what your friends are playing and what achievements they have through the Xbox 360 dashboard, keeping a step ahead of your friends and trying to stay on top of local leaderboards adds extra replayability to games. Earning a few more gamerscore points by finishing another race or setting a new high score gives you incentive to keep playing games long after you probably would have set it aside back in the bad old days before the Xbox 360"

 

Listen, lets just drop it and agree to disagree.

 

I'm sorry if I was hard on you, but you've caught me on an Adderall-infused bender, which tends to make me more than a little anally-retentive.

 

Which says NOTHING about getting items in the game for getting the achievement LOL. It says it gives you another reason to play other than goals that are set within the game and you can compare with what your friend's have done, the same with THIS system.

 

That's fine though, I'm sorry you won't enjoy the achievement system, I can assure many will. Have a good night.