2.0 pvp, rewards, bolster!? whats the deal?!

[Uvirith]

If the only reason you PvP is to make numbers on your stat sheet bigger, then you missed the point. The reward is only a part of the fun, it's not the fun. I PvP because it is an engaging form of recreation. MMOs have been a great evolution to gaming, but the reward pellet mentality is out of hand.

Yeah right, cause thats how humanity works....

 

Back in the 90s I played Street Fighter against my college buddies for hours for nothing more than bragging rights and a way to avoid studying.

Offline-Partygaming is a completely different matter.

In all the histroy of onlinegaming there was never PvP completely without benefits. Look at Guild Wars 2. It has tried, and failed miserably.

[Technohic]

Now sprinkle in lvl 30 players against such builds in the current system, and the stompping will commence... Its very concerning, and hope it was addressed.

 

Yeah, perma-50s. They won't be at the highest level of 54 for their bracket, but there will be nothing for them to do but twink and it will be supported by design.

 

The more you get me thinking about this, the clearer it is getting to me on how this will likely make gear gaps worse in some ways.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Technohic

[MedinHolliday]

(...snip)

 

I would be ok if PVP gives me PVE rewards - let's say, I could trade my rwz comms for endgame PVE gear.

In a game that has dedicated PVP servers, I should be able to progress my toons via PVP. If I spend 8h in warzones I should get comparable rewards to someone who's doing 8h of FPs or OPS.

 

Right now, I get jack sh*t for PVPing but PVE'ers a bolster for doing absolutely nothing and that's gotta change!

 

The last part of that quote, in essence is the only real issue I have with the new bolstering system. I enjoy pvp, I do it basically exclusively. I don't do PvE, either flashpoints, or endgame raiding. I don't see the point. I can't use that gear in the largest portion of the game I do enjoy, so there's really no point in me doing it. Sure, it's fun to see the storylines for the Operations and FP's and whatever, but once you've done them, there's no reason to go back. So I gear my characters through player vs player and think nothing more about it.

 

With the current system in place, I know there's some parity. If I do go into an operation in my WH, or EWH, I'm at a severe handicap compared to the others in the OP in their PvE gear. My damage, tanking, and healing will be sub-par. Similarly, if someone that's spent no time doing what I do all day decides to step into my wheelhouse, he's also handicapped by the expertise that his gear is lacking. I've got a bonus on him in MY house, and in his house, he's got a bonus on me. I'm fine with that (Although, I disagree with the system entirely, at least it's fair.)

 

In 2.0 however, my bonus goes away, and his bonus stays. I still cannot participate in the things he enjoys without substantial handicap, yet he gets to enjoy the full extent of my hard work without needing to put in the effort to put himself on equal footing.

 

Bolster 2.0 consigns PvP gear to obsolescence without doing anything similar to PvE gear. And in fact, with the stat difference, I'm quite sure now I'm going to have to do operations in order to place myself on par with others that have that gear in order to compete in pvp, because I'm quite sure the Expertise "Sweet Spot" will be much lower than it is now, and once you reach it, going full pve gear to mack the most of Bolster will be the only way to keep up.

 

 

So no, I don't dislike the idea of Bolster because I love stomping pugs in bad gear, I dislike the idea because it makes the gear I'm rewarded for doing what I enjoy in the game sub-par to the gear I'd receive for doing something else. Thus removing a large portion of the reason I do it.

[DarthOvertone]

I am still wondering about this... you have one hand, a PvE geared player getting an EXP boost to have them slightly lower than PvP geared players, but what about the hybrid gear builds (since I do both, but heavily slanted towards PvP), like myself. Will we be godmode?

 

I never even thought about that. Min-maxing might be a bit more dynamic taking advantage of bolster to find an optimal build. Maybe it becomed beneficial to not wast a single mod slot on one stat when you can boost something higher and bolster will fill the void of not having the one stat at all

 

The Bolster system is in no way ready to handle Min/Maxers. Its norms are based on a per slot rating, and the buff happens no matter what if the mod is below the target rating. It's very easy to find the holes in the system and exploit them, and I have some news for you, players will quickly discover that a lot of the BiS stuff for PvP will in fact be PvE mods/barrels/hilts.

[Totaltrash]

General question for all these posters who say that "real PVPers don't need rewards!".

 

If you want to PVP for PVP's sake, why in the heck are you playing an MMO?

SWTOR PVP is mediocre at best, anyone who has played real PVP games knows that.

There are tons of pure PVP games (and even some MMOs) that do it much, much better.

 

MMOs are about progression, PVE and PVP - especially in an MMO with DEDICATED PVP servers!

 

Aside from the Star Wars theme, I pvp in this game because I want meaningful progression for my toons.

Otherwise, I could go back to LoL and enjoy much better PVP without the progression.

At least in LoL, the champions are closely balanced and the developers actively play their own game, unlike SWTOR where the ACs are out of whack and the developers solely rely on metrics.

 

If Bioware wants SWTOR pvp to be ONLY casual and without progression, why do I want to continue to sub for it?

Either because they are too lazy, too incompetent, or because the MBAs at EA tell them to, that is exactly the direction Bioware is taking with SWTOR.

 

95% of all warzones played everyday are NORMAL warzones, not ranked. 2.0 won't change anything about that.

For every RWZ team there are probably 100 HM OPS teams. 2.0 won't change anything about that either.

 

Thanks to the bolster, a dedicated PVEer can enjoy 95% of game, and be successful, by doing PVE content only.

A dedicated PVPer cannot do the same.

[Tycoon]

)I cant believe the bs from softcore pvpers on this post: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=609933

Whoever keeps saying that pvpers depend on superior gear to feel powerful and smash freshies just doesn't get it...

Pvers start out weak doing loads of hm fps, dailies, and pug sm ops so the can improve gear and skill so they can eventually be invited to harder ops with people who have done the same thing. The high end pver rarely has to pug. All this character building unlocks a more sophisticated game experience.

Pvpers do the same thing. They gear to be a good competitor. They pvp constantly and thru the grind they become better at what they enjoy. Eventually they are able to defeat harder opponents and do ranked with some of the best.

 

Most of the time when you compete and progress through something (whatever that maybe), the more difficult that thing becomes. It is the opposite for a MMO. When you compete and progress in a MMO it actually gets easier instead of harder. The reason for this is because you are given better gear then the other guys, and you are essentially given a handicap against anyone who doesn't have competitive gear. Swtor has taken this same system to the extreme. In some cases people in War Hero have twice as many stats as those in recruit.

 

Now you can say its fair because those who have been working on their War Hero gear were in the same boat, and the time you spend getting the gear is part of the competition. However how about those who have gone through the WH grind and want to play their alts? Should the be penalized because they wanted to try something different? How about those who spent just as much time in the 1-49 bracket as those in the 50 brackets? Should they be penalized just because they wanted to level to 50 just from pvp? The answer is no. Right now swtor's pvp isn't pvp, its gear vs gear, and it will remain that way until Bioware can find a way for everyone to be on equal footing.

 

I know a lot of great pvpers, and some of the best pvp guilds left swtor. Not because they were getting facerolled by those in WH, but because they were doing the facerolling. Once they got their mains in full augmented Elite War Hero, WZ became really easy, and they moved onto a real challenge. Swtor end-game pvp is a broken system. I can very well see casual pvpers, and hardcore pvper continue to leave swtor until there is a better system.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Tycoon

[criminalheretic]

This is an MMO, changes are bound to happen that are going to upset people. Acting like a child and ranting on a gaming forum is not the way to address anything you want to get attention to which is what people in this thread are doing. I am more than ok with this change assuming that they get bolster to work as they intend it to and this is coming from someone who has PvPed since day one and have gone through every single gear grind (F(_)cking rng bag system) and am looking forward to a more skill based PvP...

 

 

...and I am looking forward to gear vs skill threads coming to an end so we can focus everything onto the "premade problem".

 

Yeah, the "premade problem" has diminished to only about 3-4 new threads a day. I miss the good old days when every single solo player who lost a WZ, would immediately create a new thread about the evils of working together in a team based competition.

 

As for the bolster, I don't really care one way or another. I have faith in my skill. I just don't like the fact that after months of grinding 3 toons to BiS, I now pretty much have to start over.