2.0 pvp, rewards, bolster!? whats the deal?!

[L-RANDLE]

Well I would have preferred that gear was not in the PvP equation, but as I have now geared multiple toons on each faction, I can say with 100% confidence that bolster will do little to stop the train wrecks... Then, as stated previously in this thread, the people who have issues with gear, in its current state, can focus on those "Premades" everyone has an issue with....

[Emencie]

That's the fun of playing an MMO. Every MMO I've played I got rolled in PVP once I reached max level. After I started to grind, I could see my character getting stronger and stronger, and once I fully geared the character I could really appreciate the accomplishment because I HAD TO WORK FOR IT. Something you kids today least desire.

That's the boring part of an MMO. Every MMO I've played I start off equal with my peers in PvP once I reached max level. After I started to play matches for fun, I bought the gear required to stay competitive with my opponents, and once I was fully geared I could kill new players with ease because I had a stupid crutch advantage. I wish that we could just compete on even playing fields for the fun of competition. Something you kids today least desire.

[Odyseus]

That's the boring part of an MMO. Every MMO I've played I start off equal with my peers in PvP once I reached max level. After I started to play matches for fun, I bought the gear required to stay competitive with my opponents, and once I was fully geared I could kill new players with ease because I had a stupid crutch advantage. I wish that we could just compete on even playing fields for the fun of competition. Something you kids today least desire.

 

It's clear MMO's are not for you. MMO's are about progression, you would be better served playing a 3DS or WIIU. MMO's aren't for everyone.

[Caeliux]

What's funny when I read some of the complaints here it comes to the conclusion that some players only get gratification by rofl stomping others under geared.

 

If Bioware is leaning on making this game more about skill > all, I am all for it.

 

The gear gap since this game was made is alot of the reason this game bleed subs, especially when Battlemaster and they way it was grinded on Ilum for valor.

 

This game went from valor grind, to less, to less.

 

Now in 2.0 and so on gear won't = skill, people actually can't make that excuse anymore come 2.0.

 

What that means is more guilds can become competitive, and show face without a gear gap.

 

You better get some friends and join a guild, cause competitive PvP is coming soon.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Caeliux

[Totaltrash]

That's the boring part of an MMO. Every MMO I've played I start off equal with my peers in PvP once I reached max level. After I started to play matches for fun, I bought the gear required to stay competitive with my opponents, and once I was fully geared I could kill new players with ease because I had a stupid crutch advantage. I wish that we could just compete on even playing fields for the fun of competition. Something you kids today least desire.

 

Yes, getting rewarded for hard work is boring...

Now can I please have my free BIS PVE gear?

Or maybe a nice bolster so I can do HM OPS naked?

I don't wanna grind boring spacebar-spamming FPs...gimme my gear now!!

 

I bet 99% of those who think "Biobolster 2.0" is great for PVP, will still suck just as badly - "skill" my rear-end!

It's clear MMO's are not for you. MMO's are about progression, you would be better served playing a 3DS or WIIU. MMO's aren't for everyone.

 

As this guy says, MMO's are about progression!

But with 2.0 Bioware essentially takes progression for PVP out of the game.

I cannot imagine that being a good thing for swtor as a whole.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Totaltrash

[Emencie]

It's clear MMO's are not for you. MMO's are about progression, you would be better served playing a 3DS or WIIU. MMO's aren't for everyone.

Or FPS, or Fighting games, or sports games, or basketball, baseball, football, Pretty much any sport, monopoly, candy land... And any other competition based VS game weather video board or real life...

 

Except apparently SWTOR.

 

The Idea that you get an advantage in a vs game just because you played it longer is a MMO only Idea, and a bad one. And MMOs have been trying to get further and further away from it since TBC Why? Because for people who actually like PVP its boring and worthless on both sides. Yup I have a brand new 1/2 recruit Operative, I also have a full EWH Assassin, EWH Shadow, WH Sage, and a 1/2 EWH Vanguard. On my Op it's just annoying to be ungergeared (not so much anymore) And on my EWH it's just sad when I face a Recruit geared. And facing a half recruit team while my whole team is a EWH Premade... Is just silly... we can take those pugs with half our team... Its like playing against my 5 year old kid, its like being a pro football player playing against pop warner kids... and we have pads but they don't! May be fun to you, but to me its boring.

 

Sorry TT I dont find stepping into a WZ and getting tokens for just being there for a week as "hard work" If that is hard work to you... well I'm just going to stop there.

 

______

Edit

 

What I find fun is stepping up against a team as good as my own and having to play my *** off, pushing my skills to the limit and developing strategies against the skilled enemies I face off against. Having to pool mine and my teammates skills into a working tactic to overcome the opposition and fighting back when the chips are down. The reward is victory when you win and the knowledge you played your best when you don't. That's fun to me. Not all this Everyone gets a ribbon and a trophy for showing up BS that kids are used to these days.

 

Show up to the WZ and get geared... Hard work? Please.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Emencie

[Totaltrash]

Or FPS, or Fighting games, or sports games, or basketball, baseball, football, Pretty much any sport, monopoly, candy land... And any other competition based VS game weather video board or real life...

 

Except apparently SWTOR.

 

The Idea that you get an advantage in a vs game just because you played it longer is a MMO only Idea, and a bad one. And MMOs have been trying to get further and further away from it since TBC Why? Because for people who actually like PVP its boring and worthless on both sides. Yup I have a brand new 1/2 recruit Operative, I also have a full EWH Assassin, EWH Shadow, WH Sage, and a 1/2 EWH Vanguard. On my Op it's just annoying to be ungergeared (not so much anymore) And on my EWH it's just sad when I face a Recruit geared. And facing a half recruit team while my whole team is a EWH Premade... Is just silly... we can take those pugs with half our team... Its like playing against my 5 year old kid, its like being a pro football player playing against pop warner kids... and we have pads but they don't! May be fun to you, but to me its boring.

Wrong comparison. MMO =/= FPS, sports games, board games or RL sports.

If you want to make point, compare MMO to MMO.

 

Traditionally, MMOs reward progression, that's the whole point.

You roll a toon and develop it. That requires time and effort. In exchange, you are rewarded with a better toon.

Free gear and bolsters do not require time and effort, do not count as progression, that's just freebies.

Sorry TT I dont find stepping into a WZ and getting tokens for just being there for a week as "hard work" If that is hard work to you... well I'm just going to stop there.

 

Well, if it's so easy to get geared, why do people like yourself complain about a gear gap?

Just get the gear, problem solved...no whining necessary and no bolster needed, right?

 

Like I said before, sometimes I play in Recruit gear just to show that it can be done successfully.

So I don't give a hoot about the gear itself!

 

But I do object that Bioware removes the progression element from PVP in an MMO, because

a) their developers are too lazy to balance the ACs and

b) they caved in to all the lazy people who screamed about a "gear gap".

[sithaztec]

Both my BiS PVE gear and my WH/EWH gear is about to become obsolete. I had to grind and raid my face off for both of those sets of gear. So what?

 

All that's happening is that current 50 PVP is becoming lowbie PVP, which currently has the boost. The raids I spent months wiping on are basically turning into glorified flashpoints. So what?

 

We're going to get a small but significant end-game expansion to both PVP and PVE and you guys are sitting around complaining because the game is growing and we'll have to earn gear again. That's just silly. Also, Bacon.

[Emencie]

Wrong comparison. MMO =/= FPS, sports games, board games or RL sports.

If you want to make point, compare MMO to MMO.[/Quote]

I did. MMOs have been moving away from the "I have the best gear you cannot even attempt to hurt me" model for years now. Even this game has moved away from that problem, when some of us were BM geared and facing 0 expertise noobs. Yes I played pre 1.2 and yes I had a BM Vanguard and Yes I could take a team of 8 solo back then. And no... it wasn't fun. And they are still moving away from it like Champions, WoW, Secret world, GW, and of course GW2... All these games and more have moved away from better gear = ROFLSTOMP in PvP some getting rid of gear disparity completely and others just making the difference so small that it matters little.

Well, if it's so easy to get geared, why do people like yourself complain about a gear gap?

I have a brand new 1/2 recruit Operative, I also have a full EWH Assassin, EWH Shadow, WH Sage, and a 1/2 EWH Vanguard.

Just get the gear, problem solved...no whining necessary and no bolster needed, right?

I wish that we could just compete on even playing fields for the fun of competition.

In other words... It's not fun to play against noobs in lower level gear. Its not fun for noobs to play against people that smash their face in, and I get no enjoyment from roflstomping a team into submission.

 

You dont care about gear disparity but you want progression...

 

Then let me ask you this.

 

If they kept progression in a different manner gave other rewards that had no effect on your character stats. Meaning tons of PVP exclusive items to spend your tokens on from special crystal colors, pets, outfits, speeders, emotes, attack animations, hair styles, titles, and whatever else we can think of.

 

Would that be enough for you? or do you need to have better gear not just any progression element?

Because gaining gear is not the only form of progression a game can have right?

Edited April 4, 2013 by Emencie

[Totaltrash]

Emencie, before I reply to you let me say this:

Every time I want to post on this forum, I have to enter yet another one-time-password, even though I have a static IP and use the same damn computer every time. In other words, I'm not exactly in a good mood, so don't take this too personal.

 

<snip>

In other words... It's not fun to play against noobs in lower level gear. Its not fun for noobs to play against people that smash their face in, and I get no enjoyment from roflstomping a team into submission.

While I agree with you, I could be very cynical here:

Almost all premades in solo-queue will disagree - slaughtering noobs is where its at!

Or ask all the 50s camping lowbie planets for a good griefing, they'll definitely disagree!

You dont care about gear disparity but you want progression...

 

Then let me ask you this.

 

If they kept progression in a different manner gave other rewards that had no effect on your character stats. Meaning tons of PVP exclusive items to spend your tokens on from special crystal colors, pets, outfits, speeders, emotes, attack animations, hair styles, titles, and whatever else we can think of.

 

Would that be enough for you? or do you need to have better gear not just any progression element?

Because gaining gear is not the only form of progression a game can have right?

 

My point is that Bioware isn't trying to make PVP "better", don't be so naïve.

They are just trying to cut corners with that half-baked bolster, either because they are too lazy to balance the ACs, or because they are too incompetent to do it. Judging by this one-time-password mess, my money is on the latter!

 

Valor used to be a decent progression reward for me - not perfect, but decent enough.

But then valor trading happened, Bioware failed to punish the exploiters, and everything honest players had worked for became meaningless with one patch (1.1.5 irrc).

 

I would be ok if PVP gives me PVE rewards - let's say, I could trade my rwz comms for endgame PVE gear.

In a game that has dedicated PVP servers, I should be able to progress my toons via PVP. If I spend 8h in warzones I should get comparable rewards to someone who's doing 8h of FPs or OPS.

 

Right now, I get jack sh*t for PVPing but PVE'ers a bolster for doing absolutely nothing and that's gotta change!

[Draekos]

2.0 does seem to be lacking PvP progression, but I think the new bolster idea is great. In a game that encourages alts it is an awesome change.

[Siniaera]

I am mainly a PVP only player, so basiclly going to buy PVP gear. Then I have to grind PVE gear to be able to PVE.

 

But If I only do PVE I don't need to grind pvp gear ? sounds a bit unfair.

[mrekxxx]

Here is a little hint for all you people that are upset you grinded up War Hero or Epic War hero gear, and its becoming obsolete... THAT HAPPENS IN ALL MMO's. As the game progresses and gets older, the gear you have becomes useless and gets replaced. So what if the bolster system gives everyone the stats that War hero gear had... There is another set of PvP gear that you need to work towards... If a game stopped increasing and progressing the gear levels, people would run out of a reason to play.

 

Second, I like the fact that the bolster takes away some of the gear advantages and requires people, even with the top end gear to have skill to compete. When 2.0 goes live it will uncover the overgeared baddies for what they really are... Crap players that hide behind their gear to cover their lack of skill.

 

If I had my way for this game, then the bolster system would balance out all gear and matches would be won by the team with the most skilled players AND not by the team with the best gear.

 

 

agree ...

[Anthraxal]

Reality check : Expertise had only 2 purpose, the first to double artificially the gametime needed to play the full game in normal conditions, the second to spoon-feed carebears and alleviate their worries by proposing a one and all powerful statistic that allowed them the bliss of mindblankness.

 

Starting with 2.0, Expertise is kinda negated. It remains the vehicule for +damage, +heal and damage reduction but instead of being modifiers individually generated, they are actually global PvP modifiers. That's a step in the right direction, but there 's still a lot of distance to cover :

- take away PvP gear and replace it with normal gear with different skin. That way, all players, PvErs or PvPers, have access to the same gear, but through different ways.

- implement more variables ( seriously, right now it's as challenging as HKO prolly was). Extended skill trees (but not more point ot spend), more statistics you can play with (but not more slots to fill in your gear), everything that can make a clear distinction in some people's mind between "making setup choices" and "stack/profit".

 

Seriously PvP-oriented players will still pwn with superior tactics, superior choices of talents and gear optimization, while those who just had their hands full of leisure time to farm stuff and thereafter picked'n faceroll freshies in Recruit gear to play the biggest bully of the schoolyard will 57fU with their so-called uberskills of l33tness.

 

The choice of Bolster opens PvP to everyone, it doesn't mean everyone is suddenly gonna be good at PvP. it also means that overstuffed noobs will fall from their pedestal and that knowledgeable gimps will give them a hard fight.

 

TL;DR : get a grip carebears, here's your chance for some quality PvP.

[Technohic]

So long as I don't have to run PvE instances to get what I feel I need for PvP, then I pretty much am fine with it, the more I think about it. It's also kind of nice that with all my alts, I am less worried about gearing ALL of them and can hop on them from time to time to change things up. Probably will start with my main to get min-maxed so I have at least one toon like that, particularly for open world stuff (always hopeful for more). Still probably would be a better PvPer if I focused on one and struggle with whether I want to do that or play a variety of toons and specs, but I always will struggle with that.

[nursegirl]

I did. MMOs have been moving away from the "I have the best gear you cannot even attempt to hurt me" model for years now. Even this game has moved away from that problem, when some of us were BM geared and facing 0 expertise noobs. Yes I played pre 1.2 and yes I had a BM Vanguard and Yes I could take a team of 8 solo back then. And no... it wasn't fun. And they are still moving away from it like Champions, WoW, Secret world, GW, and of course GW2... All these games and more have moved away from better gear = ROFLSTOMP in PvP some getting rid of gear disparity completely and others just making the difference so small that it matters little.

 

 

 

 

In other words... It's not fun to play against noobs in lower level gear. Its not fun for noobs to play against people that smash their face in, and I get no enjoyment from roflstomping a team into submission.

 

You dont care about gear disparity but you want progression...

 

Then let me ask you this.

 

If they kept progression in a different manner gave other rewards that had no effect on your character stats. Meaning tons of PVP exclusive items to spend your tokens on from special crystal colors, pets, outfits, speeders, emotes, attack animations, hair styles, titles, and whatever else we can think of.

 

Would that be enough for you? or do you need to have better gear not just any progression element?

Because gaining gear is not the only form of progression a game can have right?

 

Then that would be great. But thats not the case is it. For now it would seem my time invested vs rewards (wether that be my gear or other items that you meantioned) is ALOT less than a PvEer his rewards and his same amount of time invested, in a part of the game that he enjoys. The time I invest in pvp...is no less time that the pver invest in a game element that he enjoys....why should my rewards be less?

[nursegirl]

I am mainly a PVP only player, so basiclly going to buy PVP gear. Then I have to grind PVE gear to be able to PVE.

 

But If I only do PVE I don't need to grind pvp gear ? sounds a bit unfair.

 

Exactly...this is why this is so much Fubar.

Edited April 4, 2013 by nursegirl

[IAmViiOLENT]

Gear doesn't mean anything in relation to skill. A high LvL PvPer is still going to be better than an equally geared PvPer thats a casual. Hence, why Ranked Warzone teams that are rated as the best on their server smash the hell out of the other teams on their server. Their gear is equal, the tactics and skill make the difference.

[L-RANDLE]

So long as I don't have to run PvE instances to get what I feel I need for PvP, then I pretty much am fine with it, the more I think about it.

I am still wondering about this... you have one hand, a PvE geared player getting an EXP boost to have them slightly lower than PvP geared players, but what about the hybrid gear builds (since I do both, but heavily slanted towards PvP), like myself. Will we be godmode?

 

 

We shall see.

 

Soon™

[Technohic]

I am still wondering about this... you have one hand, a PvE geared player getting an EXP boost to have them slightly lower than PvP geared players, but what about the hybrid gear builds (since I do both, but heavily slanted towards PvP), like myself. Will we be godmode?

 

 

We shall see.

 

Soon™

 

I never even thought about that. Min-maxing might be a bit more dynamic taking advantage of bolster to find an optimal build. Maybe it becomed beneficial to not wast a single mod slot on one stat when you can boost something higher and bolster will fill the void of not having the one stat at all.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Technohic

[L-RANDLE]

maybe it becomed beneficial to not wast a single mod slot on one stat when you can boost something higher and bolster will fill the void of not having the one stat at all.

 

bingo!!!

[Floplag]

I find it amusing how butthurt the so-called hardcore PvPers are over this.

IF you were that hardcore, you should want this... you should want everyone on an equal footing so that WZ can be something more than a gear check that runs most people out after 5 mins of trying it.

I PvP a lot, over a lot of toons, and i think this is perhaps the best thing they could have done. Make PvP a level footing so that the "skill" can rise to the top and matter more than grinding gear.

Those who are bellyaching... newsflash, your fear is showing, and i for one like it, i like it a lot

[Technohic]

bingo!!!

 

If that winds up the case, there will be a larger gear gap in play than before bolster, if you ask me. At least before, you got full WH and you were in a good place. Min-maxing obviously existed, but I could see a system where you have a higher floor favoring those who could really min-max anbd it will be in favor of those who want to run PvE. Of course, it wouldn't be ideal for any place bolster does not exist.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Technohic

[Emencie]

Then that would be great. But thats not the case is it. For now it would seem my time invested vs rewards (wether that be my gear or other items that you meantioned) is ALOT less than a PvEer his rewards and his same amount of time invested, in a part of the game that he enjoys. The time I invest in pvp...is no less time that the pver invest in a game element that he enjoys....why should my rewards be less?

The rewards from PvE are what? Gear? Gear to do more PvE?

That isn't a reward it's a gating mechanic. So you have to go through the content at the developer's pace and in

to developer's order. The reward for PvE is completion of the content. because gear means nothing if you are not in the operations. You could say that gear can be used as a token of pride or bragging rights and I will agree to that.

 

In PvP the reward is supposed to be the fun of competition. But just like PvE now PvP has some PvP only bells and whistle rewards (we could use more.) And the only use for PvP gear again is Bragging rights and pride. Because (assuming WH/EWH geared) Our gear doesn't do anything for us. but keep us in line with one another.

 

(For general example) A PvE raid group gets geared to do 25% more dps and between healing and mitigation they as a group take 20% less damage... This doesn't change the encounters in the next operation, because the bosses now have 25% more health and deal 20% more damage. Sure the previous operation is easier now. But they have completed it. there is little reason to go back. The gear hasn't made them stronger just enabled them to play the next set of content.

 

PvP works the exact same way. If 2 groups got their 50s' on the same day same time and started to PvP vs each other In their recruit gear, they would be evenly matched. In a few weeks the 2 groups have WH gear. Now they are better right? Not at all, Because the enemy has also obtained better gear. By the time they are in EWH nothing has changed from when the two groups were in recruit because you are not getting stronger. You are just staying the same with your opponents when gearing for PvP making the gear, ultimately useless from a practical standpoint.

 

This is why people advocate no gear PvP. We are not PvE players, we don't need to be gated. What we should be asking for as a community is more things to spend our tokens on. Not complaining that they are making spending tokens on gear no longer mandatory. Can you imagine if all they did was put tons of gear shells on the PVP venders. Not even new models, Just unique textures of popular outfits already in game. That is a very small step but a great step in the direction of actual rewards for PvP rather than "gear" which few like the look of but everyone gets to stay competitive. is not a reward at all.

[L-RANDLE]

If that winds up the case, there will be a larger gear gap in play than before bolster, if you ask me. At least before, you got full WH and you were in a good place. Min-maxing obviously existed, but I could see a system where you have a higher floor favoring those who could really min-max anbd it will be in favor of those who want to run PvE. Of course, it wouldn't be ideal for any place bolster does not exist.

 

Now sprinkle in lvl 30 players against such builds in the current system, and the stompping will commence... Its very concerning, and hope it was addressed.