The 4 Arguments of HIghly Overpowered Snipers

[Triforcer]

We have entered the Age of the Sniper. Since snipers are already well on their way to comprising roughly 3/4ths of the entire playerbase, it is going to get harder and harder for the rest of us to call them out for sorely needed nerfs.

 

Snipers know they are monstrously overpowered, and that their well-deserved nerfs will eventually come. Their job is to prevent that day for as long as possible (preferably until every non-sniper has quit in disgust). The solution? Trolling the forums.

 

The thing about snipers is that they think they are as smart as you or me. This has led them (and every defender of every other overpowered class in MMO history) to four basic arguments. At great personal risk to my brain, I’ve catalogued these and ranked each one on my patent-pending, 1-5 idiocy scale. A score of “1” means garden-variety nonsense from a not-overly-bright FOTMer, while a score of “5” means that an alien civilization would be completely justified in destroying our planet if they had wi-fi and read it. I’ve also provided you with a handy cut-and-paste response so that you don’t need to waste precious seconds typing new words to response to these.

 

Argument 1: “How can snipers be overpowered when a 12/29/0 spec Class X, a 0/31/10 Class Y, and a 27/0/14 Class X talking to each other over voice can execute a flawless coordinated attack and sometimes kill one of us? LOL”

 

Underlying Premise: Snipers cannot be overpowered if the coding of SWTOR literally permits them to take damage and be killed.

 

Idiocy Scale: 5

 

Response: “If we have to devote 2 or 3 people to killing you solo in all circumstances, you are overpowered. Warzones are 8v8, and we don’t get extra slots if your side has a sniper. Your argument is bad, and you should feel bad.”

 

 

 

Argument 2: “I did a pve parse on a test dummy. How can snipers be overpowered when TWO other ACs can do 1.2% more overall damage to a test dummy over 25 seconds? LOL”

 

Underlying Premise: Snipers cannot be overpowered if, on an infinitely long DPS parse, there is one short period where someone else does more theoretical damage to a PvE test dummy. This assumes the sniper isn’t actually lying about the existence of that short period of sniper inferiority (editor’s note: he is).

 

Idiocy Scale: 3

 

Response: “In PVP, the only thing that matters is burst. Even if DPS were all that mattered, you still kill everyone in 3-4 global cooldowns. Also, even apart from DPS, you have roughly 10 abilities that immunize you from CC and keep everyone else locked down pretty much indefinitely.”

 

 

 

Argument 3: “How can snipers be overpowered since I once saw a youtube video of a lvl 50 mercenary (who didn’t use any of his skill points because he wanted to play hard mode) kill some people, including a sniper? LOL”

 

Underlying Premise: Snipers can’t be overpowered if even one person playing another class can do well.

 

Idiocy Scale: 3

 

Response: “Some extraordinarily skilled people can take a weak class and kill mediocre keyboard turners, even if they are playing snipers. That doesn’t mean classes are balanced- the test is whether certain classes always win or lose even among people of equal skill level. I’ll admit that it is amazing that a sniper could be stupid enough to lose to someone else, but if anyone could do it, it would be you.”

 

 

Argument 4: “How can snipers be overpowered when this is a TEAM pvp game? 1v1 doesn’t matter!”

 

Underlying Premise: My 1v1 god class is probably inexplicably bad at pvp for some reason if there are multiple people on each team.

 

Idiocy Scale: 1

 

Response: “If you play a class that can beat everyone 1v1, it is extremely unlikely that your class is weak or useless in “group” pvp. Also, if the other team has to design their entire class makeup and strategy around dealing with you, you are still overpowered.”

Edited March 26, 2013 by Triforcer

[BaineOs]

Well look on the bright side dude, those snipers who actually know how to play the class will have lots of fun mopping up those who don't.

[Kameki]

I apploud your creativity. And while I dont have a lvl 50 sniper I will say this:

 

I assume I am not a godly player. I think I do quite reasonable but often see myself make a lot of mistakes. I often forget to use Shielding Probe and use Entrench way to impulsively. Despite this, Ambush -> FT -> EP -> Snipe -> Takedown combo kills 50% if not more of the players outright (from 100% hp). That is about 6 seconds in combat (not including Ambush).

 

I cant recall any fight with a melee that crushed me (except operatives, because they have surprise). However, I usually crush any melee just as easily if I open on them. Of course, I do lose every now and then, but usually very close.

 

Since I came from Marauder as my main, I do think I am, and I dare say it, quite overpowered. If I have Adrenaline Probe up, I can usually burn through a healer, or at the very least make him heal his *** off, gaining well needed momentum for my team.

 

That said, I almost never come across a Slinger who uses de-cover smoke. Or I just beat him to it.

 

I enjoy my reign while it lasts. Either until they nerf it, or until I hit lvlcap.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Kameki

[funkiestj]

How many snipers do the best rated teams run?

 

Move over team of stun locking operatives!

[NoTomorrow]

Man or girl, you could be at least more ingenious and provide us, snipers, with some entertainment value.

 

All i need to shut the mouth of any Sniper QQer, is to get down to the details, see exactly where the dude thinks the sniper is overpowered. And guess what, everytime the QQer doesn't even have a clue about what sniper spec he is talking about. All i see is just some crappy rant from a melee or in our case from a crappy assassin that has trouble keybinding his abilities.

[TheGreatFrosty]

We have entered the Age of the Sniper. Since snipers are already well on their way to comprising roughly 3/4ths of the entire playerbase, it is going to get harder and harder for the rest of us to call them out for sorely needed nerfs.

 

Snipers know they are monstrously overpowered, and that their well-deserved nerfs will eventually come. Their job is to prevent that day for as long as possible (preferably until every non-sniper has quit in disgust). The solution? Trolling the forums.

 

The thing about snipers is that they think they are as smart as you or me. This has led them (and every defender of every other overpowered class in MMO history) to four basic arguments. At great personal risk to my brain, I’ve catalogued these and ranked each one on my patent-pending, 1-5 idiocy scale. A score of “1” means garden-variety nonsense from a not-overly-bright FOTMer, while a score of “5” means that an alien civilization would be completely justified in destroying our planet if they had wi-fi and read it. I’ve also provided you with a handy cut-and-paste response so that you don’t need to waste precious seconds typing new words to response to these.

 

Argument 1: “How can snipers be overpowered when a 12/29/0 spec Class X, a 0/31/10 Class Y, and a 27/0/14 Class X talking to each other over voice can execute a flawless coordinated attack and sometimes kill one of us? LOL”

 

Underlying Premise: Snipers cannot be overpowered if the coding of SWTOR literally permits them to take damage and be killed.

 

Idiocy Scale: 5

 

Response: “If we have to devote 2 or 3 people to killing you solo in all circumstances, you are overpowered. Warzones are 8v8, and we don’t get extra slots if your side has a sniper. Your argument is bad, and you should feel bad.”

 

 

 

Argument 2: “I did a pve parse on a test dummy. How can snipers be overpowered when TWO other ACs can do 1.2% more overall damage to a test dummy over 25 seconds? LOL”

 

Underlying Premise: Snipers cannot be overpowered if, on an infinitely long DPS parse, there is one short period where someone else does more theoretical damage to a PvE test dummy. This assumes the sniper isn’t actually lying about the existence of that short period of sniper inferiority (editor’s note: he is).

 

Idiocy Scale: 3

 

Response: “In PVP, the only thing that matters is burst. Even if DPS were all that mattered, you still kill everyone in 3-4 global cooldowns. Also, even apart from DPS, you have roughly 10 abilities that immunize you from CC and keep everyone else locked down pretty much indefinitely.”

 

 

 

Argument 3: “How can snipers be overpowered since I once saw a youtube video of a lvl 50 mercenary (who didn’t use any of his skill points because he wanted to play hard mode) kill some people, including a sniper? LOL”

 

Underlying Premise: Snipers can’t be overpowered if even one person playing another class can do well.

 

Idiocy Scale: 3

 

Response: “Some extraordinarily skilled people can take a weak class and kill mediocre keyboard turners, even if they are playing snipers. That doesn’t mean classes are balanced- the test is whether certain classes always win or lose even among people of equal skill level. I’ll admit that it is amazing that a sniper could be stupid enough to lose to someone else, but if anyone could do it, it would be you.”

 

 

Argument 4: “How can snipers be overpowered when this is a TEAM pvp game? 1v1 doesn’t matter!”

 

Underlying Premise: My 1v1 god class is probably inexplicably bad at pvp for some reason if there are multiple people on each team.

 

Idiocy Scale: 1

 

Response: “If you play a class that can beat everyone 1v1, it is extremely unlikely that your class is weak or useless in “group” pvp. Also, if the other team has to design their entire class makeup and strategy around dealing with you, you are still overpowered.”

 

Melee Jugg/Mara that got beat 1v1 because he couldn't jump. Nothing to see here.

[TheGreatFrosty]

I apploud your creativity. And while I dont have a lvl 50 sniper I will say this:

 

I assume I am not a godly player. I think I do quite reasonable but often see myself make a lot of mistakes. I often forget to use Shielding Probe and use Entrench way to impulsively. Despite this, Ambush -> FT -> EP -> Snipe -> Takedown combo kills 50% if not more of the players outright (from 100% hp). That is about 6 seconds in combat (not including Ambush).

 

I cant recall any fight with a melee that crushed me (except operatives, because they have surprise). However, I usually crush any melee just as easily if I open on them. Of course, I do lose every now and then, but usually very close.

 

Since I came from Marauder as my main, I do think I am, and I dare say it, quite overpowered. If I have Adrenaline Probe up, I can usually burn through a healer, or at the very least make him heal his *** off, gaining well needed momentum for my team.

 

That said, I almost never come across a Slinger who uses de-cover smoke. Or I just beat him to it.

 

I enjoy my reign while it lasts. Either until they nerf it, or until I hit lvlcap.

 

You're pre 50 talking about level 50 game class balance. Good lord.

[Rincewend]

Man or girl, you could be at least more ingenious and provide us, snipers, with some entertainment value.

 

All i need to shut the mouth of any Sniper QQer, is to get down to the details, see exactly where the dude thinks the sniper is overpowered. And guess what, everytime the QQer doesn't even have a clue about what sniper spec he is talking about. All i see is just some crappy rant from a melee or in our case from a crappy assassin that has trouble keybinding his abilities.

 

The way I saw it too, basic cry for a sniper nerf before they flood pvp killing all the smashers who flood pvp after it got a buff.

[JackNader]

Rotfl. Hallmark of an overpowered class is one that the vast majority of players play. Let's wait and see what the ratio of snipers to other classes are come 2.0.

[JackNader]

The way I saw it too, basic cry for a sniper nerf before they flood pvp killing all the smashers who flood pvp after it got a buff.

 

If snipers become the new FOTM, it won't be smashers QQing bro. They will all be snipers.

[ripamorame]

Pre 50 pvp does not count for much but i did just have a voidstar where reps had 4 gs it wasnt fun being looked at and dying instantly but they still lost. Its not a class that can help with objectives on a level the others can.

[Totaltrash]

We have entered the Age of the Sniper. Since snipers are already well on their way to comprising roughly 3/4ths of the entire playerbase, it is going to get harder and harder for the rest of us to call them out for sorely needed nerfs.

 

Snipers know they are monstrously overpowered, and that their well-deserved nerfs will eventually come. Their job is to prevent that day for as long as possible (preferably until every non-sniper has quit in disgust). The solution? Trolling the forums.

<snip>

 

Flashback to April 2012 just before the first server merges.

On my original server, there were exactly 5 good snipers that continuously played that class in 50 PVP.

Of course, there were tons of snipers (around 1.2) in 10-49 and practically all of them quit after they reached 50 and were utterly destroyed in real PVP.

 

Fast-forward to March 2013.

I'm currently playing a DPS Sage (most fun class to play, in my opinion) in 50 PVP. I play strictly for objective, so I don't brawl a lot, but if I want a 1v1 medal, I find myself a sniper to kill.

 

Sure, currently lowbie PVP is full of snipers but almost all of them are terrible. The only reason why it doesn't look like that on the scoreboard is because the bolster stacks nicely with sniper abilities. Most of these snipers will crash and burn once they get to 50, just like it was 1 year ago.

 

To be a good sniper in warzones with objectives you need vision and patience.

Most players have neither, they rather run around erratically and mash buttons as fast as they can.

Hence this "sniper epidemic" will be over just as quickly as the last one.

[HybridCode]

I play every class including a slinger and even I think my slinger needs a nerf.

[Tankqull]

All i need to shut the mouth of any Sniper QQer, is to get down to the details...

 

dmg is 10%-15% to high, 35m range is to much 30 m would be fine as it completly take out the ability of a healer to do its job from some safty, entrench reset, roll, cc primarily consits of roots that are not affected by resolve bar values, cover as well disabling all forms of leeps/pulls and on top neglecting range dmg to a high amount. should i go on?

 

the probloem with snipers is that they do not have one grosly overpowered ability like smash but everythinbg is slightly to good making the whole class grossly overpowered.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Tankqull

[Elfa]

We have entered the Age of the Sniper. Since snipers are already well on their way to comprising roughly 3/4ths of the entire playerbase, it is going to get harder and harder for the rest of us to call them out for sorely needed nerfs.

 

Snipers know they are monstrously overpowered, and that their well-deserved nerfs will eventually come. Their job is to prevent that day for as long as possible (preferably until every non-sniper has quit in disgust). The solution? Trolling the forums.

 

The thing about snipers is that they think they are as smart as you or me. This has led them (and every defender of every other overpowered class in MMO history) to four basic arguments. At great personal risk to my brain, I’ve catalogued these and ranked each one on my patent-pending, 1-5 idiocy scale. A score of “1” means garden-variety nonsense from a not-overly-bright FOTMer, while a score of “5” means that an alien civilization would be completely justified in destroying our planet if they had wi-fi and read it. I’ve also provided you with a handy cut-and-paste response so that you don’t need to waste precious seconds typing new words to response to these.

 

Argument 1: “How can snipers be overpowered when a 12/29/0 spec Class X, a 0/31/10 Class Y, and a 27/0/14 Class X talking to each other over voice can execute a flawless coordinated attack and sometimes kill one of us? LOL”

 

Underlying Premise: Snipers cannot be overpowered if the coding of SWTOR literally permits them to take damage and be killed.

 

Idiocy Scale: 5

 

Response: “If we have to devote 2 or 3 people to killing you solo in all circumstances, you are overpowered. Warzones are 8v8, and we don’t get extra slots if your side has a sniper. Your argument is bad, and you should feel bad.”

 

 

 

Argument 2: “I did a pve parse on a test dummy. How can snipers be overpowered when TWO other ACs can do 1.2% more overall damage to a test dummy over 25 seconds? LOL”

 

Underlying Premise: Snipers cannot be overpowered if, on an infinitely long DPS parse, there is one short period where someone else does more theoretical damage to a PvE test dummy. This assumes the sniper isn’t actually lying about the existence of that short period of sniper inferiority (editor’s note: he is).

 

Idiocy Scale: 3

 

Response: “In PVP, the only thing that matters is burst. Even if DPS were all that mattered, you still kill everyone in 3-4 global cooldowns. Also, even apart from DPS, you have roughly 10 abilities that immunize you from CC and keep everyone else locked down pretty much indefinitely.”

 

 

 

Argument 3: “How can snipers be overpowered since I once saw a youtube video of a lvl 50 mercenary (who didn’t use any of his skill points because he wanted to play hard mode) kill some people, including a sniper? LOL”

 

Underlying Premise: Snipers can’t be overpowered if even one person playing another class can do well.

 

Idiocy Scale: 3

 

Response: “Some extraordinarily skilled people can take a weak class and kill mediocre keyboard turners, even if they are playing snipers. That doesn’t mean classes are balanced- the test is whether certain classes always win or lose even among people of equal skill level. I’ll admit that it is amazing that a sniper could be stupid enough to lose to someone else, but if anyone could do it, it would be you.”

 

 

Argument 4: “How can snipers be overpowered when this is a TEAM pvp game? 1v1 doesn’t matter!”

 

Underlying Premise: My 1v1 god class is probably inexplicably bad at pvp for some reason if there are multiple people on each team.

 

Idiocy Scale: 1

 

Response: “If you play a class that can beat everyone 1v1, it is extremely unlikely that your class is weak or useless in “group” pvp. Also, if the other team has to design their entire class makeup and strategy around dealing with you, you are still overpowered.”

 

You think Snipers are OP?! How do you think those NPC's on Tython you keep killing to make yourself feel better about your skill feel about you?

[midianlord]

Man or girl, you could be at least more ingenious and provide us, snipers, with some entertainment value.

 

All i need to shut the mouth of any Sniper QQer, is to get down to the details, see exactly where the dude thinks the sniper is overpowered. And guess what, everytime the QQer doesn't even have a clue about what sniper spec he is talking about. All i see is just some crappy rant from a melee or in our case from a crappy assassin that has trouble keybinding his abilities.

 

^^This.^^

 

Thank you Sir/Ma'am, for saving my brain during this downtime (I so wanna finish 50'ing my 'Slinger/DFer, --Rep side mirror to Sniper/Lethality-- 1 more to go, I can taste it, I tell ya!).

 

Snipers/Shooters aren't OP at all. It's just that most who play them understand that you need at least some skill to do so well, and make the effort to cultivate same in a vast, stinking, heaving, maggot infested midden-heap of brainless "I R 1337 I 0wnz0rs u n00b, harr-harrr-derp-derp!" lolsmashers.

 

Counter to Sniper/Slinger:

 

Operative or Scoundrel, or Sorc taking advantage of the chaos that usually prevails in a brawl around a node and the resulting "tunnel-vision."

 

We on the other hand must:

 

Stop.

Look.

And think before first taking a position, then opening up. Once we do, we're still an essentially immobile glass cannon (Lethality/DF somewhat excepted, but they still do their best from crouch/cover as well.).

 

Learn to play, not just smash.

 

Next!

Edited March 26, 2013 by midianlord

[Keldaur]

The poking fun at smashers got old already. Specially when you are poking fun of them while we are playing a class that just rapes them. It's kind ironic. Also it's pretty much like PT's, yes you are average player would do better with them, but being really good with them (specially smashers) require better game awareness than a sniper/gunslinger, who are mostly about knowing where to position yourself.

 

And well... about the "more keybindings". C'mon, you have 1.5 secs to decide which skill you want to use, you don't need piano skills to play a MMORPG.

 

About the OP, well i haven't played the PTS, but i am looking forward to my sniper changes

[NoTomorrow]

dmg is 10%-15% to high

 

number pulled out of butt without any logical mathematical explanation. How did you determine that damage is exactly 10%-15% high? Based on what calculations did you find out this number?

The between 1.2 and 1.3 patches MM +5% damage increase was because the original MM DPS was balanced arround armor debuff stacking from multiple classes. When they removed this one and made it so that the highest one counted, MM DPS plummeted. The buff was to compensate this armor debuff not stacking.

 

35m range is to much 30 m would be fine as it completly take out the ability of a healer to do its job from some safty,

 

A healer vs sniper is always balanced by healers ability to get out of Sniper LoS. You are expected to place yourself out of sniper line of sight while still seeing your team mates and healing them. A sniper will never hard counter healers simply because it is unable to hunt down healers behind the corners and the sniper mobile DPS is complete crap in comparison to a Melee DPS or a PT.

 

The extra 5 range is absolutely nothing. Many maps are balanced arround 35m distance between key structures, especially huttball. You are supposed to hit from certain edge of catwalks somebody located exactly 35m on other edge of catwalks. 5m extra is nothing when even melee range is 4m.

 

entrench reset

A few arguments in favor of entrench EMP reset from engineering tree (other specs don't get it).

1. Engineering entrench is weaker than MM entrench because it does not grant 60% AoE DR and of course it cannot grant the talented movement speed after entrench ends.

2. Engineering is a spec designed to be more "tanky" than the other 2 specs. Give then fact that the shield probe extra 30% was taken away from engineering and moved to lethality, engineering with its shield probe reset has lost a cummulaltive of at least 3000-4500 damage mitigation.

3. The changes to EMP CD +15 seconds and the addition of the 2 skill points talent for -15s CD has basically led to engineering being 2 skill points taxed just to stay on the original version of it.

4. Entrench itself is not the means to everything it doesnt add any extra damage reduction, you can still be killed. CC-happy assassins that cannot kill crap without abusing the crap out of their plethora of CC can go cry in a corner. The sniper to get this CC immunity roots himself in a place. You have plenty of opportunities to get the hell out of sniper LoS

5. With the recent shield changes, Engineering suddenly has its explosive probe, interrogation probe and frag grenades being shielded, tech attacks which originally bypassed the tanking shields. With the Plasma probe and OS being the only abilities that bypass the tanking shields, engineering got a serious nerf vs tanks. Right now only lethality is a reliable spec vs tanks. Since tanks will survive longer against engineering, this gives them room to use their CC against the sniper after entrench expires. The entrench emp buff took care of this.

 

roll

1. the roll is basically a reinvention of the original sniper ability from SWTOR 1.0 called roll to cover. Since the roll to cover is extremely bugged and very often just gets stuck in the place, the new covered escape has fixed this. We got an ability we were always expected TO HAVE as a sniper. There is nothing new here.

 

2. The increased sniper mobility was added as a response to other classes increased sniper mobility in the face of tons of anti-root abilities. Entire bounty hunter class got a root cleanse and immunity. Obliterate got root cleanse. RAGE can escape roots!!. The roots are the bread and butter of 1.7 sniper. It's part of the very core rotation of any PvP sniper. Our legshot has a 15s (12s CD talented) for this very reason. We are expected to use our root often because LoS for a sniper is everything.

 

And now most of the classes can just shrug it off and close the distance tot the sniper without much of the problem. This is where the sniper roll comes in and puts the balance back in place. You can close the distnace on us faster? Ok, we can in return now increase that distance as a response.

 

cc primarily consits of roots that are not affected by resolve bar values,

 

read previous paragraph. Roots will be a complete utter joke in 2.0

 

cover as well disabling all forms of leeps/pulls and on top neglecting range dmg to a high amount. should i go on?

Aha! so you are some sort of melee, right? You must be one of those dudes who cannot deal with a problem unless you can charge right in its face. Well here is a developer quote about how the melee vs sniper match-up was intended from the very beginning. WORKING AS INTENDED:

 

Quote: Originally Posted by Georg Zoeller

 

It's much worse than you think.

 

No, a Sniper in cover cannot be charged with Force Leap. Yes, your warrior will have to move into melee range to engage the Sniper (or use ranged abilities like saber throw).

 

Marksman specced snipers specifically are a very defensive class.

 

You rarely see them leading the charge onto an objective, but they are masters of area denial. It's not just that you have to bridge 35 meters to them, with them getting the alpha strike. They got tools that will temporarily root you (Leg Shot), the force of impact from their Ambush ability pushes close range enemies back and their cover generator is fitted with the a pulse detonator that pushes attackers out of melee range (Cover Pulse). They can also become faster and faster the more they hit you (Sniper Volley). And did I mention that they can call down a powerful orbital satellite strike to protect the area around them?

 

You really don't want to charge these guys head on. Just like what I said about a Sage going into close range combat with a Melee DPS class, charging a good sniper head on alone will likely result in you dead on the ground and the Sniper mildly irritated.

 

How is it balanced? Carefully... We force you to be smart about moving into the area protected by these guys. If you're not smart about it and think you can charge into the fray, that's the wrong class to try that on. Their weakness is the fact that their most powerful abilities require them to be entirely static, that they have little ability to kite or establish range against a close range attacker.

 

You want to sneak up on them, distract them or eject them from cover (there's a very limited number of abilities that can do that), utilize environmental features to avoid line of sight, hit them with long range DOTs and wear them down, or gang up on them. If you manage to catch them close range without having lost too much of your health, they are in a lot of trouble and without Stealth generator or any kind of active escape ability, they are likely dead.

 

the probloem with snipers is that they do not have one grosly overpowered ability like smash but everythinbg is slightly to good making the whole class grossly overpowered.

 

Have you got any more arguments against snipers? please least them here so we can have a in depth discussion.

Edited March 26, 2013 by NoTomorrow

[Atramar]

dum dum dum

another smash bites the dust

dum dum dum

another smash bites the dust.

and another one gone, and another one gone

another smash bites the dust.

[Jayshames]

I have a 50 Sniper which I've been using as my main for not too long now, but I've been put off by the 2.0 changes, not because they are bad, but because they are amazing and it's going to reel in loads of bad Snipers into the class I play and I just don't feel right playing a FoTM class.

 

I'm going to be honest and admit that Snipers are a a bit overpowered at the moment and I myself would like to see them fixed properly by like minded Snipers that are open to admit we need to be fixed and not "nerfed".

I hate the term "nerf" as It almost always renders the class useless, look at Assassins for example.

 

There's 2 issues I can see with Lethality and Marksmanship and here's how I think they should be altered for the better;

Lethality; The takedown ability has a 45% proc chance on each time Cull does damage, now out of the 30 or so times I used Cull on my Sniper I procced this every single time. Cull currently has a cooldown of 9 seconds, an execute should not be usable every 9 seconds on people with any health level.

My suggestion; Instead of Takedown proc being tied to Cull (9s CD) it should be tied to Series of Shots (15s CD) / Weakening Blast (15s CD) or have a 60% (or so) chance to proc on Poison Damage every 20 seconds, which will bring it in line with the likes of Juggernaut and Marauders ability to execute every 20 seconds.

 

Marksmanship; The problem I see here, is that Followthrough can be used far too often, I was easily casting off a snipe then strafing to the side a little, entering cover again and getting an instant Snipe and Followthrough off again, all while Ambush/Series of Shots or Explosive Probe was coming off cooldown.

My suggestion; Keep the cooldown reset and usage of Followthrough on Ambush and Series of Shots, but remove it from the x2 Snipes. Personally, I see Snipe as a filler attack and it should by no means proc a hard hitter like Followthrough and even more so the fact it can be used right after a casted Snipe without hitting GCD.

 

Now I am by no means saying that these WILL fix the class, it's just my opinions in what is pushing the parses way up there. Though, like I said.. I do believe we -Snipers- need to be toned down some bring us back on par with other classes, stop the QQ and stop the baddies rolling into FoTM class to fuel their ego.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Jayshames

[NoTomorrow]

we lost the mobile DPS of MM tied to 6s cycles of snap shot + FT.

FT CD is now 9s, and the only means to reset it now is by using an actiated / channeled ability. You can no longer have on the move snipes+FT apart from the first snipe.

 

Series of Shots will only reset the FT CD when it is fully casted. If the targets gets out of LoS or just dies before the 4th hit of SoS, you don't get your FT back.

 

The double snipe rotation is complete utter crap. I never asked for this stupid proc system. Any 1.7 sniper will tell you that "snipe" spamming is for idiots. And now they are forcing us to to double snipe to get ambush activation reduction proc and FT proc. It's horrible and i hate it. They are turning us into some sort of improved tracer missle spammers.

 

Lethality: again you fail to see where the real problem is, the problem is not takedown, the problem is spamable corrosive grenade which is stupid. However the whiners and QQing people instead of seeing the real problem of sniper class, they come up with some disingenuous assertions about sniper being OP because some melee cannot leap to them.

 

You are all victims of the slow metagame, sniper was always good and balanced just the way it is now. If 2.0 would keep sniper completely unchanged, but the number of sniper players raised, you would be crying that sniper is OP anyway simply because how used you were to facerolling pvp with smash and other FOTM specs without anybody actually rolling a sniper to put you out of your misery.

 

I had entire games where i was the only sniper in pvp on both teams. Those melee FOTM that got melted by those few of us did not actually acknowledge that we were always designed to be a threat for them.

Edited March 26, 2013 by NoTomorrow

[MarkXXIV]

I have a 50 Sniper which I've been using as my main for not too long now, but I've been put off by the 2.0 changes, not because they are bad, but because they are amazing and it's going to reel in loads of bad Snipers into the class I play and I just don't feel right playing a FoTM class.

 

I'm going to be honest and admit that Snipers are a a bit overpowered at the moment and I myself would like to see them fixed properly by like minded Snipers that are open to admit we need to be fixed and not "nerfed".

I hate the term "nerf" as It almost always renders the class useless, look at Assassins for example.

 

There's 2 issues I can see with Lethality and Marksmanship and here's how I think they should be altered for the better;

Lethality; The takedown ability has a 45% proc chance on each time Cull does damage, now out of the 30 or so times I used Cull on my Sniper I procced this every single time. Cull currently has a cooldown of 9 seconds, an execute should not be usable every 9 seconds on people with any health level.

My suggestion; Instead of Takedown proc being tied to Cull (9s CD) it should be tied to Series of Shots (15s CD) / Weakening Blast (15s CD) or have a 60% (or so) chance to proc on Poison Damage every 20 seconds, which will bring it in line with the likes of Juggernaut and Marauders ability to execute every 20 seconds.

 

Marksmanship; The problem I see here, is that Followthrough can be used far too often, I was easily casting off a snipe then strafing to the side a little, entering cover again and getting an instant Snipe and Followthrough off again, all while Ambush/Series of Shots or Explosive Probe was coming off cooldown.

My suggestion; Keep the cooldown reset and usage of Followthrough on Ambush and Series of Shots, but remove it from the x2 Snipes. Personally, I see Snipe as a filler attack and it should by no means proc a hard hitter like Followthrough and even more so the fact it can be used right after a casted Snipe without hitting GCD.

 

Now I am by no means saying that these WILL fix the class, it's just my opinions in what is pushing the parses way up there. Though, like I said.. I do believe we -Snipers- need to be toned down some bring us back on par with other classes, stop the QQ and stop the baddies rolling into FoTM class to fuel their ego.

 

snipers have good damage and some nice skills but they have to get into cover and are very immobile/squishy. Sniper's job is 1 thing ranged dps and they do it well, why do people want to nerf a great cass and turn it into a merc. You are just mad because you are going to feel less special with more people playing your class which is stupid. Just because you have played the same class for a year or longer does not mean you own the class and no one else gets to play it, other snipers/new snipers actions and gameplay will have minimal effect on your own... If you are mad about other snipers out damaging you then impove your character and your skill at playing the game, if you are mad about other players sucking with them then prove that they don't suck, I don't see what the problem is. Stop trying to ruin the last ranged dps class that can actually get a ranked team playing dps.

 

Sniper are fine do not nerf sniper... Buff merc, nerf pyro pt, nerf smash jugg, fix warrior rage trees, fix inquisitor madness trees, buff op dps, buff sorc dps, buff pt tank and ap, and make sure the 3 trees of sniper all work effectively at their roles, thats all that needs to be done.

Edited March 26, 2013 by MarkXXIV

[Jayshames]

snipers have good damage and some nice skills but they have to get into cover and are very immobile/squishy. Sniper's job is 1 thing ranged dps and they do it well, why do people want to nerf a great cass and turn it into a merc. You are just mad because you are going to feel less special with more people playing your class which is stupid. Just because you have played the same class for a year or longer does not mean you own the class and no one else gets to play it, other snipers/new snipers actions and gameplay will have minimal effect on your own... If you are mad about other snipers out damaging you then impove your character and your skill at playing the game, if you are mad about other players sucking with them then prove that they don't suck, I don't see what the problem is. Stop trying to ruin the last ranged dps class that can actually get a ranked team playing dps.

 

Sniper are fine do not nerf sniper... Buff merc, nerf pyro pt, nerf smash jugg, fix warrior rage trees, fix inquisitor madness trees, buff op dps, buff sorc dps, buff pt tank and ap, and make sure the 3 trees of sniper all work effectively at their roles, thats all that needs to be done.

 

"just mad"

 

Sorry, but who are you to say how I feel and what I think?

And quote me where I said I wanted to ruin the class? did you even read my post or just the first line then feel the need to fill in the gaps with your completely stupid response.

Notice where I said "my opinions" and "not nerf" ??

 

Your assuming I'm "mad" because people are rolling the same class as me, (I shouldn't even be responding to you after saying that as it's so childish) that's not the case. You're telling me you're going to enjoy PvP with 3-4 Snipers on 1 team? Also, where are you pulling this "no one else gets to play it" and "If you are mad about other snipers out damaging you then improve your character" crap from? honestly stop spewing out rubbish and actually read my post. Not once did I say anything along the lines of me being upset over people out damaging me. I'm not going to play PvP when the majority of my team / opposing team is made up of Snipers/Gunslingers.

[mattycutts]

lol this thread actually made me laugh.

 

ok if the teams are all full of snipers then guess you quit or swapped class and either way a nerf wouldnt be needed lol

 

Seriously, there are so many muppits out there that cant play the game skillfully roll every class they think is easy play and because of all these fotm threads same as smah ones so they instantly roll a sniper now so the influx of snipers may not actually be because there over powered but because they saw some threads saying "snipers need nerf there over powered" now roll that class but becasue there will be so many guess means there over powered just because there x % more since 2.0 goes live. lol

 

you will be able to tell the real sniper from the sniper wannabe simply by they cant play the class as it actually requires more or less every single ability you receive to be most effective compared to some classes that just spam a couple of abilties.

[Joesixxpack]

Flashback to April 2012 just before the first server merges.

On my original server, there were exactly 5 good snipers that continuously played that class in 50 PVP.

Of course, there were tons of snipers (around 1.2) in 10-49 and practically all of them quit after they reached 50 and were utterly destroyed in real PVP.

 

Fast-forward to March 2013.

I'm currently playing a DPS Sage (most fun class to play, in my opinion) in 50 PVP. I play strictly for objective, so I don't brawl a lot, but if I want a 1v1 medal, I find myself a sniper to kill.

 

Sure, currently lowbie PVP is full of snipers but almost all of them are terrible. The only reason why it doesn't look like that on the scoreboard is because the bolster stacks nicely with sniper abilities. Most of these snipers will crash and burn once they get to 50, just like it was 1 year ago.

 

To be a good sniper in warzones with objectives you need vision and patience.

Most players have neither, they rather run around erratically and mash buttons as fast as they can.

Hence this "sniper epidemic" will be over just as quickly as the last one.

 

^ This. What's to change this reality in 2.0? Will there be a cognitive ability or patience buff in the DL? Loads of QQ from FOTM lemmings about other ACs is the most likely outcome, before they move on to the next shiny quicker than the usual class trend shift. Inb4 "We need to be able to run with cover screen up."

Edited March 26, 2013 by Joesixxpack