Disappointed about so-called "New In Game Barber-Shop"

[Cleet_Xia]

I wanted to pop in and address some of your concerns about our barbershop and its use of Cartel Coins and not credits. There are a couple of design implications that go into these decisions I wanted to highlight in the hopes that it makes our decision in this regard a bit clearer.

 

• We very consciously design these systems around the fact that subscribers get monthly Cartel Coin grants. Pricing, etc. has these monthly grants in mind to ensure that our subscribers have access to these systems.
  
• We want to set the expectation that cosmetic systems like these are where you are going to see us use the Cartel Market. It is our continued philosophy that we will not implement a form of pay to win so cosmetic systems and other non-game impacting features are our best opportunities to make additions to the Cartel Market.
  

As we continue to release more information about our barbershop please continue to give us your feedback.

 

-eric

 

The problem that I, and many other subscribers have with this concept is that it is yet another erosion of the "value proposition" that this game is supplying the subscriber with.

 

We pay monthly subscriptions with the expectation of updates in the content that is available to us. Without regular updates that provide some real expansion of what our subscription gains us access to ~ why should we continue to pay a subscription?

 

So we can enjoy the event? ~ f2p pays a one time fee ~ subs pay every month

So we can do operations? ~ f2p only pays once they need to ~ subs pay every month

So we can do unlimited WZ? - f2p only pays if they PvP ~ subs pay every month, even if they don't PVP

So we can do unlimited space missions - f2p only pays if they want the minigame ~ subs pay every month, even if they don't play them.

 

This list goes on.........

 

Subscribers have received very little in the way of fluffy or cosmetic updates since the launch of the the CM. And many of the items which were most attractive to subscribers were completely out of reach using only the basic CC grant. And no, i'm not talking about the contents of the packs. I'm talking about the complete armor sets which have carried a CC price tag over 2 X greater than the monthly grant. The life day bundle & carbonite chamber are other examples.

 

1) Subscribers have had very limited access to any new mounts/pets/armors/emotes EXCEPT through the CM, since the launch of the CM.

2) Subscribers have had almost no access to "toy" items outside the CM. This isn't right.

 

And it isn't what we're paying a subscription to receive.

 

An approach that would be much more palatable to subscribers is this:

Add more special authorizations & unlocks to the CM for f2p players to buy. Money GATE the new content away from f2p players & make THEM pay more to gain access ~ not the other way around.

 

How about instead of supplying f2p players with access to the contraband rep & venders for free as a perk of buying cartel packs, you charge THEM to unlock the reputation system & buy authorizations to use our rep venders?

 

As it sits right now...it's looking less and less like this game has any intention of even trying to maintain a subscription payment model in the future.

[Pscyon]

Then I suggest you either save up your monthly allotment or hold it in.

 

I wasn't aware it came in monthly allotments.

 

... oh wait. You meant the cartel coins didn't you.

[Elfa]

I wasn't aware it came in monthly allotments.

 

... oh wait. You meant the cartel coins didn't you.

 

Lol, I hope so or someone needs to see a Gastoenterologist.

Edited March 21, 2013 by Elfa

[CosmicKat]

To EA/Bioware:

 

Please hire someone who understands the concept of "customer relations".

 

You keep getting opportunities where you have 2 choices.

 

Option 1 will cost you a little money but make the customers you have happy.

 

Option 2 will make you a little money and piss off your customers.

 

You can't continue this pattern of always choosing Option 2. Every chance you have had to throw a bone to your subscribers you have instead decided to piss on us and tell us it is raining.

[Levity]

So are you worried that CM buyers won't transfer these items to the GTN anymore if the cost of them on the CM doesn't justify what they get from the GTN in credits?

 

Which will be the case. Obviously that's just speculation on my part. But I've read posts where people say they won't be willing to pay that much at all for them. So unless the CCs can reflect what people are willing to pay I don't think we will see them much.

[Andryah]

Since you're not a crafter or a GTN broker, you have no arguement.

I am both. I've made far more credits since the Cartel Market launched than I ever did before. All I did was change what segment of the market I focused on. I now sell stims, medpacks, armorings, mods, and enhancements all at a very rapid pace. The "competition" from planetary comm vendors is negligible. The fact that there's so much adaptable, modifiable armor now available to the players has increased the demand for armor mods beyond what I can supply.

I'm literally swimming in credits, thanks to the Cartel market.

 

As a GTN "broker", with friends who are crafters in game, I can verify this assessment by OmenQ.

 

As I have stated before... crafting for profit (just like GTN brokering for profit) is a moving target. What profits one week may very well not profit the next week. If you do not adjust to market demands, you have nobody to blame but yourself.

[Elfa]

Which will be the case. Obviously that's just speculation on my part. But I've read posts where people say they won't be willing to pay that much at all for them. So unless the CCs can reflect what people are willing to pay I don't think we will see them much.

 

Understandable worry my friend. I'm not too worried about appearance customization though, at least not at first. I expect they will be a hot commodity. I guess we'll have to take a "wait and see" approach, perhaps we'll get lucky.

[vian]

That's an interesting clause, yes. Wouldn't it be fun to see their definition of "game impacting" and "pay to win"?

 

It's not exactly rocket science to infer it. Given that they sell BiS Ship components (which don't give you an advantage over anyone else in-game, but do make the Heroics easier) but not BiS Anything-that-can-be-used-when-playing-with-other-people, it's QoL improvements and amusing fluff, most of which can also be obtained by other means than Cartel Coins.

 

Pay to win, which they have been avoiding, seems to be defined as being able to buy equipment which will give you an advantage over other players. And they've been good about avoiding that, so far. Long may it continue.

 

You may not like or agree with their definition, but it's not exactly hard to work out. A new hairdo or a makeover isn't going to impact on the game any more than having a skiff instead of a nightrider, or having a title, is, so it's fair game.

[Vraesh]

ANYTHING put into the Cartel Market DOES NOT count as "game content", regardless of what the devs brand it as.

The only exception would be if they allowed the purchase of the upcoming expansion through cartel coins as an alternative to paying with it on a credit card.

[kirorx]

I wanted to pop in and address some of your concerns about our barbershop and its use of Cartel Coins and not credits. There are a couple of design implications that go into these decisions I wanted to highlight in the hopes that it makes our decision in this regard a bit clearer.

 

• We very consciously design these systems around the fact that subscribers get monthly Cartel Coin grants. Pricing, etc. has these monthly grants in mind to ensure that our subscribers have access to these systems.
  
• We want to set the expectation that cosmetic systems like these are where you are going to see us use the Cartel Market. It is our continued philosophy that we will not implement a form of pay to win so cosmetic systems and other non-game impacting features are our best opportunities to make additions to the Cartel Market.
  

As we continue to release more information about our barbershop please continue to give us your feedback.

 

-eric

 

I think I find that we as a community are noticing a trend here in which nearly everything since the roll out of the cartel market have been added as cartel items

 

I understand wanting to place these items in the store but you should consider some content that does not revolve around the cartel store

 

Throw in some new stuff that is included with our monthly subs so we don't feel that cartel market is the main priority

[Andryah]

Ah yes, the Diablo III development and release was an excellent example of perfect execution, to which all game developers everywhere should seek to imitate. Nary a single problem to be found anywhere. Oh how I wish all games could be as flawless as DIII.

 

LOL... nailed it.

 

And yet... the fantasy portrayal of the next killer MMO will continue here in the forums.

[shefflad]

It is purely cosmetic.

 

There is no overpowered gear or buff being sold on the cartel market. There is nothing that will give you a direct advantage over a player who doesn't buy things from the cartel market.

 

How about +41 crystal for lvl 10 not everybody can afford to buy packs hoping to get one. Yes you can buy them on the GTN but again not everybody as 500k as well.

But you cant get them in game for lvl10 with these stats by just doing missions etc.

[Levity]

Understandable worry my friend. I'm not too worried about appearance customization though, at least not at first. I expect they will be a hot commodity. I guess we'll have to take a "wait and see" approach, perhaps we'll get lucky.

 

Its true. It will all be dependent on the amount these barbershop things go for. Hopefully they aren't in the 300-400 range.

[Andryah]

I'm not talking about price gouging. I'm talking about the price compared to the amount of CCs someone spends. If these barbershop things cost say 350 CCs and people are only willing to spend maybe 50k for it? People aren't going to buy it. And hell even if they cost 150 CCs, it's way better to buy cartel packs and sell them for a guaranteed 300-400k then what those will end up going for.

 

Doomsday much?

 

Seriously... what say we wait for pricing before complaining about pricing.

[river_of_Gem]

I'm really hoping titan project from blizzard comes out soon ,those guys know how to make games, these guys, know how to make a mess, and not clean it up.

 

You may want to look at Diablo 3 or WoW nowaday.

[Levity]

LOL... nailed it.

 

And yet... the fantasy portrayal of the next killer MMO will continue here in the forums.

 

Read forums please. D3 launched flawlessly. The game was stunning, the stories were engaging. There was massive approval until they launched the RMAH and everything went to crap. Did you even play D3?

[Elfa]

How about +41 crystal for lvl 10 not everybody can afford to buy packs hoping to get one. Yes you can buy them on the GTN but again not everybody as 500k as well.

But you cant get them in game for lvl10 with these stats by just doing missions etc.

 

Yet, they still aren't a pay to win item. Yes, they can give you a nice boost, but at the end, when you hit cap, they're the same as everything else. Plus, have you seen the costs lately, they're over loaded and selling pretty cheap on the GTN and in the chat channels as long as you aren't looking for Hawkeyes.

Edited March 21, 2013 by Elfa

[Urael]

To EA/Bioware:

 

Please hire someone who understands the concept of "customer relations".

 

You keep getting opportunities where you have 2 choices.

 

Option 1 will cost you a little money but make the customers you have happy.

 

Option 2 will make you a little money and piss off your customers.

 

You can't continue this pattern of always choosing Option 2. Every chance you have had to throw a bone to your subscribers you have instead decided to piss on us and tell us it is raining.

 

^QFT (well when I as subscribed).

[Levity]

Doomsday much?

 

Seriously... what say we wait for pricing before complaining about pricing.

 

Doomsday? Or being realistic.

 

You'll be one of the ones who goes with the sinking ship.

 

*Salutes*

[Andryah]

How about +41 crystal for lvl 10 not everybody can afford to buy packs hoping to get one. Yes you can buy them on the GTN but again not everybody as 500k as well.

But you cant get them in game for lvl10 with these stats by just doing missions etc.

 

More like 100-150K for those crystals. AND as has been mentioned in many threads.... The developers have answered this attempt of yours to conflate. It's not going to create any appreciable advantage for even a level 10. By level 20... it's completely Meh. It's been discussed to death... please stop beating that old dead horse... it's down to bones and dust already.

 

The only advantage of +41 crystals, is not having to replace you crystal every 5-7 levels. Pop one in at level 10 and play to level cap.

[shefflad]

You may want to look at Diablo 3 or WoW nowaday.

 

iam going to check our Defiance comes out on 2nd April .

[Brittaany_Banks]

I wanted to pop in and address some of your concerns about our barbershop and its use of Cartel Coins and not credits. There are a couple of design implications that go into these decisions I wanted to highlight in the hopes that it makes our decision in this regard a bit clearer.

 

• We very consciously design these systems around the fact that subscribers get monthly Cartel Coin grants. Pricing, etc. has these monthly grants in mind to ensure that our subscribers have access to these systems.
  
• We want to set the expectation that cosmetic systems like these are where you are going to see us use the Cartel Market. It is our continued philosophy that we will not implement a form of pay to win so cosmetic systems and other non-game impacting features are our best opportunities to make additions to the Cartel Market.
  

As we continue to release more information about our barbershop please continue to give us your feedback.

 

-eric

 

I'm getting a little sick and tired (I'm sure others are as well) of the "monthly stipend" being used as an excuse to justify adding all "quality of life" additions to the game into the cartel market. You need to start addressing the rampant inflation in the game that is only getting worse as more and more players join the game.

 

Credit sinks like this would be perfect but your decision to just throw it in the cartel market shows your inability to even see the rampant inflation, and shows the dollar signs in your friggen eyes anytime the player base says they want a new game mechanic. It is honestly getting ridiculous.

 

 

I understand the purpose of this game is to make money but why does that mean EVERYTHING has to be made available through the cartel market?

[Pscyon]

Doomsday much?

 

Seriously... what say we wait for pricing before complaining about pricing.

 

Pre-emptively complaining about pricing isn't all bad though. It's less likely they'll reduce pricing on something due to complaints once it hits the CM (indeed doing so would be stupid as that'd cause issues with early buyers) than if people say allready now that they're not going to pay 500+ or whatever coins for it.

Edited March 21, 2013 by Pscyon

[saremun]

I wanted to pop in and address some of your concerns about our barbershop and its use of Cartel Coins and not credits. There are a couple of design implications that go into these decisions I wanted to highlight in the hopes that it makes our decision in this regard a bit clearer.

 

• We very consciously design these systems around the fact that subscribers get monthly Cartel Coin grants. Pricing, etc. has these monthly grants in mind to ensure that our subscribers have access to these systems.
  
• We want to set the expectation that cosmetic systems like these are where you are going to see us use the Cartel Market. It is our continued philosophy that we will not implement a form of pay to win so cosmetic systems and other non-game impacting features are our best opportunities to make additions to the Cartel Market.
  

As we continue to release more information about our barbershop please continue to give us your feedback.

 

-eric

 

So the whole DAME game became a matter of Cartel Market. way to go dumb Bioware.

[Andryah]

Read forums please. D3 launched flawlessly. The game was stunning, the stories were engaging. There was massive approval until they launched the RMAH and everything went to crap. Did you even play D3?

 

Hows D3 doing by the player base? I noticed your careful placement of the word "until" by the way. You made my point for me, thank you.

 

TL;DR: Blizzard does not walk on water. Anyone who insists they do... well.... you are welcome to your disappointments thereof.

Edited March 21, 2013 by Andryah