Selecting need for loot

[CelCawdro]

And to make my own stance known - if someone winds up needing on something that would have been of use to another member of the party, I stop pulling and simply ask, "Why?" Sometimes they were simply new to the game. Sometimes they just apologize profusely and promise not to do it again (as they were aware of what they were doing). Some simply say nothing and charge headlong into the next pack, solo. I've never actually encountered someone needing for a companion, although if I did, I would simply ask them to ask before they roll next time. And then if they fail to do so, use the game mechanics provided to deal with the situation.

[Ratajack]

I'm going to stop you right there. Companions are an integral part to A PART of the game. And that's really solo play.

 

But are they integral to FP's? No. FP's were designed for group content, which is 4 players. When 4 players are grouped, you cannot summon companions. Thus, if companions take a back seat during group play, then the same goes for loot for them as well. In fact, you can't queue for the LFG tool WITHOUT 3 other players, thereby the LFG is putting you into a system where, once again, your companion takes a back seat.

 

Operations are larger group play and you can't even summon a companion during operations. So, by extension, no loot for companions.

 

You cannot assume that your solo play gives you priority for loot that is obtained in a group setting. If so, then it can be easily justifiable for someone to take an item as they "need the credits" to sell it to buy better upgrades for their character on the GTN. Yet, that's a clearly a greed roll even though it's just as justifiable according to your statements.

 

If you want to use that loot for solo play, then solo those instances.

 

In the end, you and I clearly believe the other person is wrong. And that's fine. I'll go back to my original point: It doesn't matter how you feel here. You're in the minority and if you choose to act the way you seem to feel, then you're just setting yourself up to be ostracized by the community. And that's that.

 

I can queue in the LFG as a solo player, in a group of two, in a group of 3 or even in a group of 4. I have used the LFG tool in each of those situations.

 

Is solo play not a part of the game? That would make companions an integral part of the game, maybe not the entire game, but an integral part of the game, nonetheless.

 

The PLAYER and not the character or the companion helped to produce that loot and therefore has the right to roll however he see fit.

[CelCawdro]

I can queue in the LFG as a solo player, in a group of two, in a group of 3 or even in a group of 4. I have used the LFG tool in each of those situations.

 

Is solo play not a part of the game? That would make companions an integral part of the game, maybe not the entire game, but an integral part of the game, nonetheless.

 

The PLAYER and not the character or the companion helped to produce that loot and therefore has the right to roll however he see fit.

 

And again, as the game provides that option, you are entitled to that right. As long as you also know that you are subject to another game-presented option that is the right of the rest of the group to exercise.

[Lostpenguins]

I can queue in the LFG as a solo player, in a group of two, in a group of 3 or even in a group of 4. I have used the LFG tool in each of those situations.

 

Is solo play not a part of the game? That would make companions an integral part of the game, maybe not the entire game, but an integral part of the game, nonetheless.

 

The PLAYER and not the character or the companion helped to produce that loot and therefore has the right to roll however he see fit.

Um, you can queue solo, but you're definitely not solo'ing the instance. You're waiting for 3 other people to queue with you. It's a group effort to uses the LFG tool. Because if no one else on the server clicks the LFG tool, then you can never do it "solo". That's a really bad way to try to spin solo into the LFG tool...

 

And companions may be an integral part of the game, but you could do this entire game w/out using a companion. It's harder, but doable. If you can solo the gear that drops in FP's with just a companion, then you're more than welcome to needing all the loot. You can't just justify taking gear for solo play earned through group effort.

[Emencie]

There's no extreme verbiage that I'm aware of. I simply used a real life situation in which "social convention" was used as justification for taking away another person's rights. Isn't that what is happening with regards to loot? People expect the "social convention" of need is for character only to trump another person's right to roll on loot he helped produce. In addition, people are threatening consequences if someone actually has the stones to stand up for their rights and roll need. I've seen mention of consequences ranging from the offending party being yelled at and insulted to being "named and shamed" on fleet in the hopes that no one will group with the offending party.

By that logic... we should all roll need on everything. Every single person can use ever single drop in the game weather for companions or selling. And every single person in a group helped produce the loot that was dropped.

[ZionHalcyon]

I haven't heard one "need for companions" player state they have the balls to ask if the group is ok with it before clicking need. This seems more like the type of thing someone does and hopes no one cares or notices but if caught they try to justify it after the fact.

 

If you want to need for companions, say up front and let others need for their companions too.

 

Agreed. I have never, NEVER had an issue with people needing for comps AS LONG AS they ask first, and don't go against the group and roll need anyway when someone says "No, I need that for my main".

 

If a person wants to solo play, you can do that 1-50 without flashpoints and get all the gear you and your comp need for that in quests and off the GTN. Flashpoints are designed for Group Play, and if you don't play nice in groups, then don't expect people who do to tolerate that crap.

[BobaScott]

There's no extreme verbiage that I'm aware of. I simply used a real life situation in which "social convention" was used as justification for taking away another person's rights. Isn't that what is happening with regards to loot?

 

Not even close. To compare someone's real life tragedy to social politeness in a video game is out of bounds.

 

People expect the "social convention" of need is for character only to trump another person's right to roll on loot he helped produce. In addition, people are threatening consequences if someone actually has the stones to stand up for their rights and roll need. I've seen mention of consequences ranging from the offending party being yelled at and insulted to being "named and shamed" on fleet in the hopes that no one will group with the offending party.

 

These consequences you mention are within the same rights you are affording a loot ninja. They include the right to vote kick them out and to warn others of these offenders. While I have seen the former a few times, I have never seen someone outed in general chat. Not saying it doesn't happen, but it is much more rare if it does. Besides, how would anyone know when a warning is sandwiched in a thousand jaws jokes, insults and LFG calls? Not sure how to yell at someone unless they are in voice chat. Otherwise it is just caps lock. How is any of this to compare with the real life stuff you mentioned?

Edited March 19, 2013 by BobaScott

[SWGEvictee]

eIMO players mainly do the low level flashpoints to get the gear that drops in them to enhance their ability to play the rest of the game while leveling. Gear that directly benefits them in progressing through the game whether it's worn by them or their companion should be able to be rolled on. Not something they would only strip a single mod out of or vendor, but something immediately able to be worn and used by them in the entirety of their game at that level.

 

End game is another story completely. From that point on a companion gas no role in advancing through the gear tiers and thusly no one should roll need on and end piece of gear for a companion.

 

That is what I was saying earlier before things devolved into a snipe fest.

[cidbahamut]

eIMO players mainly do the low level flashpoints to get the gear that drops in them to enhance their ability to play the rest of the game while leveling. Gear that directly benefits them in progressing through the game whether it's worn by them or their companion should be able to be rolled on. Not something they would only strip a single mod out of or vendor, but something immediately able to be worn and used by them in the entirety of their game at that level.

 

End game is another story completely. From that point on a companion gas no role in advancing through the gear tiers and thusly no one should roll need on and end piece of gear for a companion.

 

That is what I was saying earlier before things devolved into a snipe fest.

That and the fact that endgame gear distribution would result in massive drama even if companions didn't exist.

[HakkaP]

Okay OP think about it this way.

 

What if everyone rolls like you do? You would have 3-4 players rolling "need" on every good drop. It would make it really hard to get anything for your character

 

How long have you been playing? For your sake stop doing it, or you will find it very hard to find groups in the future. The game is easy as it is. You dont need your comps to have superb gear.

 

Need for character, greed for companions. End of story.

 

Want to boost through a flashpoint? Ask your guildmates or real friends.

Edited March 19, 2013 by HakkaP

[Ratajack]

Um, you can queue solo, but you're definitely not solo'ing the instance. You're waiting for 3 other people to queue with you. It's a group effort to uses the LFG tool. Because if no one else on the server clicks the LFG tool, then you can never do it "solo". That's a really bad way to try to spin solo into the LFG tool...

 

And companions may be an integral part of the game, but you could do this entire game w/out using a companion. It's harder, but doable. If you can solo the gear that drops in FP's with just a companion, then you're more than welcome to needing all the loot. You can't just justify taking gear for solo play earned through group effort.

 

But you can justify taking gear that you could not have created without the help of those others who's right to roll you wish to deny? When you can solo the bosses and create all the loot all by yourself, then can have all the loot to yourself.

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

But why is their character more important?

Because there character is there character not a pet...

[Ratajack]

By that logic... we should all roll need on everything. Every single person can use ever single drop in the game weather for companions or selling. And every single person in a group helped produce the loot that was dropped.

 

Everyone has the right to do so. I choose not to exercise that right, but it is still my right to roll need. The fact that I choose not to exercise my right to roll need does not mean that the other members of my group must forfeit their right to roll need. I am simply trying to defend the rights of each and every player to roll need, in spite of "social convention". I'm sorry it offends you or anyone else.

[Urael]

Everyone has the right to do so. I choose not to exercise that right, but it is still my right to roll need. The fact that I choose not to exercise my right to roll need does not mean that the other members of my group must forfeit their right to roll need. I am simply trying to defend the rights of each and every player to roll need, in spite of "social convention". I'm sorry it offends you or anyone else.

 

^QFE ... This.

 

Bottom line before you PUG discuss the loot rules with the group. If you don't like them then find another group. If someone lies and doesn't behave as they have agreed to ahead of time then kick them. This goes for tabbing thru cut scenes or any other group dynamic. Discuss beforehand if you don't like the result leave and find like minded people. There are no "social conventions" that are de facto.

[CelCawdro]

Everyone has the right to do so. I choose not to exercise that right, but it is still my right to roll need. The fact that I choose not to exercise my right to roll need does not mean that the other members of my group must forfeit their right to roll need. I am simply trying to defend the rights of each and every player to roll need, in spite of "social convention". I'm sorry it offends you or anyone else.

 

Methinks you are confusing the word "right" with "ability." We have a right to absolutely nothing in this game - we signed them all away the moment we registered.

[Urael]

Methinks you are confusing the word "right" with "ability." We have a right to absolutely nothing in this game - we signed them all away the moment we registered.

 

Semantics. On the one hand "rights" is germain as it goes to "free will" on the other "ability" is only germain as it goes to button mashing. We did not "sign all our rights away" by signing the EULA. We still have ownership of our free will. So your arument is not valid in this case that is unless you were arguing the more subtle points of freedom vs. licence in that true freedom is to do what one aught and not what one wants.

[Ratajack]

Methinks you are confusing the word "right" with "ability." We have a right to absolutely nothing in this game - we signed them all away the moment we registered.

 

Maybe I should have used the word option, since that it really what it is. We all have the option to roll need, roll greed or pass. The OPTION to roll need is what some wish to deny others, without whom there would be no loot. In that vein, I will continue to defend the entire party's OPTION to roll need if they so choose, even though I will continue to roll greed on items that are not a direct upgrade for my character. If I am the only one rolling greed, and the rest of the party rolls need, then so be it.

[CelCawdro]

Semantics. On the one hand "rights" is germain as it goes to "free will" on the other "ability" is only germain as it goes to button mashing. We did not "sign all our rights away" by signing the EULA. We still have ownership of our free will. So your arument is not valid in this case that is unless you were arguing the more subtle points of freedom vs. licence in that true freedom is to do what one aught and not what one wants.

 

I never said that it wasn't semantics. The point is that this is a semantic issue. The poster was equating with his "player" rights to roll for his companion character to those in the Civil Rights movement who acted outside the norm to established a better one. Given that the term "right" is normally used in a very legalistic sense, I believe that it was being misused here.

[codycroft]

You have the right/opportunity/ability to push need, yes. But, if you don't want to be shunned by your community, it would be nice for you to state that you are going to hit need, and see what your community thinks of that. OP is an @ss primarily because he hits need without pre arranging the rules. He is getting that free 'what ever I want' item because he knows everyone is hitting greed and he'll hit need.

[CelCawdro]

Maybe I should have used the word option, since that it really what it is. We all have the option to roll need, roll greed or pass. The OPTION to roll need is what some wish to deny others, without whom there would be no loot. In that vein, I will continue to defend the entire party's OPTION to roll need if they so choose, even though I will continue to roll greed on items that are not a direct upgrade for my character. If I am the only one rolling greed, and the rest of the party rolls need, then so be it.

 

Perfect. I don't think that anyone would argue this point, and I agree heartily. And even if you view this particular action as justified, there are still many others who do not. And they also have the option to use another game mechanic to deal with what they view as problematic behaviour.

 

Of course, this entire thread would be moot if people just learned to speak to each other and ask questions that start with, "Would it be alright with you if...?"

Edited March 19, 2013 by CelCawdro

[Urael]

I never said that it wasn't semantics. The point is that this is a semantic issue. The poster was equating with his "player" rights to roll for his companion character to those in the Civil Rights movement who acted outside the norm to established a better one. Given that the term "right" is normally used in a very legalistic sense, I believe that it was being misused here.

 

Oh I agree it is missused wholeheartedly in general especially since the term right is even more so binding by the natural law than by the state's law.

 

I fail to see why people can not just agree up front when Pugging what the ground rules will be. Find like minded people and put them on your friends list and or even join their guild or invite them to yours etc to make it less likely the need to PUG and not have to worry about this in the first place. When it comes to the anonymity of the internet many will default to their more concupiscent nature.

Edited March 19, 2013 by Urael

[Lostpenguins]

But you can justify taking gear that you could not have created without the help of those others who's right to roll you wish to deny? When you can solo the bosses and create all the loot all by yourself, then can have all the loot to yourself.

You really don't seem to get it. And that's fine. Tell you what. Feel free to bring your viewpoint into a group and see if they're okay with it. Chances are, they're not okay with it. Make sure you to let them know you plan on rolling on everything that you companions need to and see if they are okay grouping with you.

 

As I keep saying, you and I disagree, and that's secondary. You seem to get that you're more likely to get kicked from a group if you follow your way so you at least get that you need to follow some rules of etiquette. And that's all I really care about.

[jovianus]

eIMO players mainly do the low level flashpoints to get the gear that drops in them to enhance their ability to play the rest of the game while leveling. Gear that directly benefits them in progressing through the game whether it's worn by them or their companion should be able to be rolled on. Not something they would only strip a single mod out of or vendor, but something immediately able to be worn and used by them in the entirety of their game at that level.

 

Why? That mod will directly benefit them in their ability to play the rest of the game. Those credits will directly benefit their ability to play the rest of the game by training skills/buying gear.

 

All you're really doing is justifying your behavior, then arbitrarily declaring that the same justification doesn't apply to behaviors you don't like.

[Ratajack]

You really don't seem to get it. And that's fine. Tell you what. Feel free to bring your viewpoint into a group and see if they're okay with it. Chances are, they're not okay with it. Make sure you to let them know you plan on rolling on everything that you companions need to and see if they are okay grouping with you.

 

As I keep saying, you and I disagree, and that's secondary. You seem to get that you're more likely to get kicked from a group if you follow your way so you at least get that you need to follow some rules of etiquette. And that's all I really care about.

 

You obviously cannot or will not read the entirety of my posts. If you did, then you would know that there would be no need for me to advise the group that I plan to roll need for my companions. As I have repeatedly stated, I choose NOT roll need for companions, but I will defend your option to do so.

[SWGEvictee]

[/color]

 

All you're really doing is justifying your behavior, then arbitrarily declaring that the same justification doesn't apply to behaviors you don't like.

 

Of course I am. So are you and everyone else. That fact alone means nothing.

 

One correction tho. I am not justifying my behavior. I am discussing why I believe this behavior should be acceptable. I have stated before that I understand and abide by the current majority opinion on this when playing in groups.