Selecting need for loot

[BaronV]

OP Its clear that nothing we say will change your position that it is your right to be able to need on anything you deem fit and no one has the right to chide you or kick you for it - no matter how selfish your actions are.

 

It is clear that you are at an impasse with the rest of the community on this issue and nothing said or done will solve it. Either you roll with the program or you go your own way.

 

You are clearly going to go it your way - Why dont you just tell us your server and character names so we can just add you to our /ignore right away.

 

Do everyone a favour - including yourself.

Edited March 19, 2013 by BaronV

[Never_Hesitate]

OP Its clear that nothing we say will change your position that it is your right to be able to need on anything you deem fit and no one has the right to chide you or kick you for it - no matter how selfish your actions are.

 

It is clear that you are at an impasse with the rest of the community on this issue and nothing said or done will solve it. Either you roll with the program or you go your own way.

 

You are clearly going to go it your way - Why dont you just tell us your server and character names so we can just add you to our /ignore right away.

 

Do everyone a favour - including yourself.

 

If he continues his way, he will most likely only ever see the first bosses of every fp/ops

[SebastiaanZ]

Well when I see people need on all, I just start to need as well and when they ask me why do I need on stuff I don't need, I tell them you do it so do I! Usually I keep myself to the unwritten rules except for crafting mats, but sometimes I am also like, **** it, you are not in my guild so I don't give a damn. (and thats uauslly when the others in my group need on everything even if they don't need them for themselves) Edited March 19, 2013 by SebastiaanZ

[HSFOverlord]

Wow, 23 pages in this discussion. I've been trying to read all the comments looking for someone who rolls on loot the way I do, but haven't seen anyone. I must caveat everyone by saying I gave up after pg 15. The general concensus is that Need is for the player and Greed is for companions/vendor/GTN, I have a slightly different approach to this. If the loot is not in my character's stats, I pass, I'm not going to waste my time keeping track of all my companion's and alt's gearstats. If it's in my stats, but not 100% better than what I'm wearing (ie. all stats are green), I greed the item, unless it's a purple/orange with a graphic I want for myself or a companion. If all the stats are green, or if it's a purple/orange that I want for the look, I ASK if I can roll Need on the item, and further add that I only want it for the look, if that's why I'm asking. The only time I don't roll this way is if I'm in a group running BT/Esseles for Social, then everything is a Greed roll.

 

I have 3 lvl 50's that can do dailys, and 4 toons with maxed slicing, one of which I have designated as my GTN alt. He stands at the terminal, selling all the missions I get with slicing, my alts mail everything to him so I am never competing against myself for bids. If I find something with a cool graphic, or find that my companions are undergeared, I use some creds to get what I need, or craft my own mods

[Nomaad]

I love grouping with people like you op, thinking its ok to need gear for your companions, taking gear away from group members. Whenever some dick you like pulls something like this, you go on my ignore list, then, you go on my guild's ignore list, then soon after, you go on most people's ignore list on fleet when your name is advertised and passed around like a cheap whore.

[Zaknaffien]

I think they should disable the ability to need loot for FTP. Getting tired of the FTP folks needing stuff they DON'T NEED and then not being able to trade it after folks pressuring them to do the right thing.

 

My 2 cents worth.

[Lung_Tien_Lien]

Player A vanguard tank

Player B sentinel DPS

Player C gunslinger DPS

 

Player D scoundrel healer

 

Aim chestpiece drops. How is telling player D that he cannot roll need on that chest piece (that might be a huge upgrade for Corso) when the tank rolls need (even if he is already wearing the same chest piece) not denying Player D a chance at that chest piece?

 

In that scenario, yes, player D doesn't get the item. However, if everyone else rolls greed on another item and only player D rolls need, because he feels he needs it for his companion or for credits, the other players get their chance denied, because they operated under the assumption that need = upgrade for main character.

 

You don't think it's correct to make that assumption or rather, you don't think it's correct to make other people stick to the same rules. Fair enough. Now please don't ignore my main question if you answer to this: Why do we have need/greed in the first place if there are no conventions, no unwritten rules to adhere to?

Why would anyone roll greed if they can't at least assume that if a person rolls need, they only need that item for their main character and not so they can sell it? Why give up their chance, as you put it, to get the item? There's no point. If there's no generally accepted definition of "need" (even if it's not defined in the game itself), the system is worthless. I don't want to give someone an item if they're only going to sell it, because I could sell it as well. So everyone would always roll need. Would you prefer that?

[Galbatorrix]

Here are the facts.

 

- Needing for your PC will NEVER cause problems.

- Asking "Do you guys care if I need for my tank companion?" will never cause problems (unless of course you still need it after the tank clearly states that it's an upgrade for him).

- Clicking need for an item that is not for your PC without first asking DOES cause problems and could get you kicked/ignored.

 

Regardless of how you play, of who you believe is entitled, of how "fair" it is, etc.... those are the rules that are most commonly followed in MMORPGs. If you don't want to be kicked/ignored, then follow the established social etiquette. Also, if you do continue to need what you want regardless of the group setup, then don't get upset when you do get kicked/ignored because you know the rules and you chose to ignore them.

Edited March 19, 2013 by Galbatorrix

[slafko]

I think they should disable the ability to need loot for FTP. Getting tired of the FTP folks needing stuff they DON'T NEED and then not being able to trade it after folks pressuring them to do the right thing.

 

My 2 cents worth.

 

1) Those F2P players contributed to the kills as much (if not more) as any subscriber on the team.

2) Reminding the team about NEED/GREED rules at the start = win.

[Never_Hesitate]

I think they should disable the ability to need loot for FTP. Getting tired of the FTP folks needing stuff they DON'T NEED and then not being able to trade it after folks pressuring them to do the right thing.

 

My 2 cents worth.

 

I dont agree with them not being able to roll need, but the not able to trade thing got me a few times

[DarthTHC]

The general convention from eons back for flash point loot is that you roll need if it is useful to the character you are playing right now and you can equip it right now.

 

Otherwise roll greed or disassemble or pass.

 

Many do not follow this convention, and that's fine. If they don't follow that convention when I'm in the group, they get to wait for a new tank.

 

The confusion in this game could possibly be alleviated by changing the need/greed system to:

 

• Need: Only available if the item is of a class the character can equip and has the same primary state the character needs and is at or below the level of the character. Permanently binds the item to the character; renders it unusable on companions. Takes precedent over all other rolls.
  
• Companion: Only available if the character has a companion that can equip the gear and the gear's primary stat is the same as the companion's stat and the gear is at or below the level of the character. Permanently binds the item to the character, but can be equipped on companions. Takes precedent over Greed and Disassemble.
  
• Greed: Always available. Works just like Greed does today. Shares precedent with Disassemble.
  
• Disassemble: Available if anyone in the group can disassemble the item. Works just like Disassemble does today. Shares precedent with Greed.
  

[Vigilanis]

I don't think you should have to reveal you intentions with the loot. Why 'Need' or 'Greed'? The very fact they are asking you to select an option that says 'Greed' is just asking for trouble really. I don't really see what the issue is, if someone wants an item, then they roll for it, if they don't they pass...simple.

 

If people are getting out of shape because someone won an item they wanted then they shouldn't go into a group with a group roll for the loot. The very fact you go into a group environment with a group sharing mechanic for the loot means you will win some you will lose some, I don't see why our intentions should be 'labelled' so to speak.

 

Just to qualify it I normally select pass for the majority of items and have only ever selected need for maybe 10 - 20% of all items I have ever come across, I have never selected greed yet.

[Never_Hesitate]

Change the need-option to an only selectable thing for the player who has that mainstat and everybody else can roll maximum greed, maybe even need/greed for companion as a third option

[MarvelZombie]

Really, all you have to do is read through this thread to find that, as a whole, the community has established a set of social rules when it comes to Need/Greed during FPs or OPs. You may not agree - or even know about it (the first time, anyway) - but the bottom line is that violating these rules will have consequences. Most of us will warn you, kick you, and/or ignore you if you don't follow these rules. We know your class, we know your stat needs, and if we really want to, we can inspect your gear.

 

It's that simple - go against the community and face the consequences.

[BaronV]

I love grouping with people like you op, thinking its ok to need gear for your companions, taking gear away from group members. Whenever some dick you like pulls something like this, you go on my ignore list, then, you go on my guild's ignore list, then soon after, you go on most people's ignore list on fleet when your name is advertised and passed around like a cheap whore.

 

Good Man!! Name and shame the ninjas!!

[Ratajack]

In that scenario, yes, player D doesn't get the item. However, if everyone else rolls greed on another item and only player D rolls need, because he feels he needs it for his companion or for credits, the other players get their chance denied, because they operated under the assumption that need = upgrade for main character.

 

You don't think it's correct to make that assumption or rather, you don't think it's correct to make other people stick to the same rules. Fair enough. Now please don't ignore my main question if you answer to this: Why do we have need/greed in the first place if there are no conventions, no unwritten rules to adhere to?

Why would anyone roll greed if they can't at least assume that if a person rolls need, they only need that item for their main character and not so they can sell it? Why give up their chance, as you put it, to get the item? There's no point. If there's no generally accepted definition of "need" (even if it's not defined in the game itself), the system is worthless. I don't want to give someone an item if they're only going to sell it, because I could sell it as well. So everyone would always roll need. Would you prefer that?

 

I know full well that when I choose to roll greed because the item is not a direct upgrade for my character, that one of the other players may choose to roll need. By rolling greed, I am CHOOSING to take my chances, not ASSUMING that the rest of the group will roll greed. We all know what happens when you assume.

 

As to your question, and how it fits in with my personal views on the loot system, here is my answer. The need roll is for a direct upgrade-either for your character or your companion, while the greed roll would apply if the item dropped is not a direct upgrade for your character or your companion. You may not agree with it, but it does answer your question.

 

An example would be if a shadow is running Esseles and a cunning chest piece drops. Neither the shadow nor Qyzen (likely the shadow's only companion, at that point) use cunning as a primary stat. The shadow rolls greed. The next boss drops a pair of boots with aim. The shadow rolls need because the boots are an upgrqade for Qyzen.

[CelCawdro]

I know full well that when I choose to roll greed because the item is not a direct upgrade for my character, that one of the other players may choose to roll need. By rolling greed, I am CHOOSING to take my chances, not ASSUMING that the rest of the group will roll greed. We all know what happens when you assume.

 

As to your question, and how it fits in with my personal views on the loot system, here is my answer. The need roll is for a direct upgrade-either for your character or your companion, while the greed roll would apply if the item dropped is not a direct upgrade for your character or your companion. You may not agree with it, but it does answer your question.

 

An example would be if a shadow is running Esseles and a cunning chest piece drops. Neither the shadow nor Qyzen (likely the shadow's only companion, at that point) use cunning as a primary stat. The shadow rolls greed. The next boss drops a pair of boots with aim. The shadow rolls need because the boots are an upgrqade for Qyzen.

 

Instance bosses do not drop loot for which there is no class present. It doesn't take into account what companions are available to those classes, only the classes themselves.

[Ratajack]

Change the need-option to an only selectable thing for the player who has that mainstat and everybody else can roll maximum greed, maybe even need/greed for companion as a third option

 

Ok, let's give vanguards and commandos the option to roll need for everyone of their companions, but take that option away from every other class. Also what happens when that cunning piece that is not an upgrade for the scoundrel, but is an upgrade for Risha, drops?

[ZionHalcyon]

Is this still going on?

 

Just have the OP list the server he plays on and his character names so that everyone who plays on that server can ignore him and not have to deal with him in their groups.

 

Its obvious from the post that the OP is a selfish person who lacks common courtesy and only cares about himself, and such jerks can't be reasoned with. All the more reason just to have him list his toons so that those of us who actually have some class don't have to be exposed to the arrogant OP.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Most players really do SKIP the tutorials - and that includes the "looot tutorial", too !

[Ratajack]

Instance bosses do not drop loot for which there is no class present. It doesn't take into account what companions are available to those classes, only the classes themselves.

 

For the sake of argument, then, my hypothetical group consists of a shadow, a commando and 2 gunslingers. The cunning piece drops and the two gunslingers rolls need as it is an upgrade for both of them, the shadow and the commando roll greed since neither their characters nor their companions use cunning as a main stat. The aim piece drops and it is an upgrade for Qyzen, Aric and one of the Corsos. The commando already has the chest piece. The shadow, commando and one of the gunslingers roll need. The second gunslinger rolls greed because his corso has a better item. The last boss drops another aim piece. This one is an upgrade for the commando, qyzen and both corsos. All players roll need.

[ZionHalcyon]

One more thing. I'll never begrudge someone asking ahead of time if they can "need" on an item for a comp, as long as they are willing to accept "no" for an answer. Sometimes the answer is yes, and I have no issue when asked ahead of a loot roll. But if someone else needs it and they are told no, then pretty much they should hit greed or risk being tossed out of the group.

 

 

The point is, this is an MMO, not a single player game. There are social conventions at work here, and if you can't conform, then don't whine that no one will play with you - you dug your own grave there by being a jerk.

[Pirana]

I often see the argument that your companion is an extension your character, and that's why some roll Need. Which I understand and not against at all, that can be argued all day. With that, I only select Need on items if my character needs them, not my companion.

[Lostpenguins]

How about two more examples.

 

Player A Shadow tank

Player B Vanguard DPS

Player C Sage DPS

Player D Scoundrel healer

 

Aim chest piece with shield and absorb rating drops. It would be a huge upgrade for Corso. Who gets to roll need?

 

 

Player A Guardian tank

Player B Sentinel DPS

Player C Gunslinger DPS

Player D Sage healer

 

Heavy armor chest piece drops with DPS stats- strength, endurance and power, but no shield and no absorb rating. Who gets to roll need?

The general rule is that companions are always secondary to toons. I've seen this rule blurred a bit. Even though companions help you in all of your solo play, they're only considered an extension of your character, a pet really. And they weren't helping you in the instance.

 

Most of the time a DPS'er won't care if you take a tanking piece over them (or at least they shouldn't) or vice-versa.

 

I'm not sure what you're looking for. The basic rule is this: If it's not a direct upgrade to your toon, then you ask if you can take it for [insert reason]. Most people will not have a problem with it if they don't need it. But taking an item over another person that their toon would use as a direct upgrade for any reason other than the fact that it's a direct upgrade to your toon is frowned upon.

 

The other part of this is that one must also identify if a piece is tanking piece, healing piece, dps piece. For example, if there's two juggs, and one is dps, and a piece with absorb/defense drops, even if the str is higher than what the dps jugg is wearing, the piece is a tanking piece and the tanking jugg gets priority.

 

All other things are secondary and if you wish to roll need on something that doesn't fall into the above situations, you must ask the group if it's okay prior to rolling.

 

That's it. There's no more "situations" that need to be brought up to see where they fall. Companions, off-specs, alts you're not currently playing, etc... all of those are secondary and need to be checked with the group. Failure to do so will be frowned upon by the group. This is the probably the basic, general etiquette of a group. It may vary from group to group, but following these simple guidelines are your best bet to not offending anyone else.

[CelCawdro]

For the sake of argument, then, my hypothetical group consists of a shadow, a commando and 2 gunslingers. The cunning piece drops and the two gunslingers rolls need as it is an upgrade for both of them, the shadow and the commando roll greed since neither their characters nor their companions use cunning as a main stat. The aim piece drops and it is an upgrade for Qyzen, Aric and one of the Corsos. The commando already has the chest piece. The shadow, commando and one of the gunslingers roll need. The second gunslinger rolls greed because his corso has a better item. The last boss drops another aim piece. This one is an upgrade for the commando, qyzen and both corsos. All players roll need.

 

The Aim piece only dropped because of the Trooper present. If non-Aim classes wish to roll, they should simply ask like a civil, mature person, if that would be alright with the person of whose class the item is intended. I don't know why this is a difficult concept. Chat exists. Why remain silent and risk confusion, and possibly your role in the group?

Edited March 19, 2013 by CelCawdro