Ban all premades outside of ranked 50

[-IceHawk-]

This "honest post" is nothing more than the caricatured representation of partisan ideologues who refuse to accept that Groups have as equal claims to the Queue as the apparently impressively skilled but inexplicably unsuccessful pug players.

 

The reality is that, no matter the content of your complaints, this is a social game in which PVP is centered upon group engagements. It is designed for group-play and Bioware is not going to restrict friends from grouping together for non-rated War Zones.

 

Neither are they going to dilute the PVP population through yet another layer after the new bracketing system is in place in 2.0.

 

I find it interesting that, according to this thread, Premades are ubiquitous on the opposition team but apparently never on your teams, they are so skilled as to single-handedly win each and every War Zone they enter but are staffed with unskilled players incapable of competing had they Queued alone and are also so ubiquitous in the Queue that they ruin nearly every PVP session and yet represent such a minority of the population that their concerns should be subsumed under that of the casual solo-pugger.

 

It is amazing how these arguments are logically incompatible and internally inconsistent and yet are repeatedly offered as proof that "Premades are Ruining" the game.

 

That tends to indicate something to me about the reality behind the motives of those arguing that people playing with groups of friends in an MMO are somehow a problem.

Edited April 1, 2013 by -IceHawk-

[stephenalandavie]

I don't have a huge problem with 4 or fewer players running together in an 8m WZ team. but you're full of crap if you honestly believe the stuff you're spouting here. MMO doesn't mean team up. it means you play a game with other ppl. playing pvp in and of itself is MMO. how do you not see this? you're (purposely?) tightening the definition of MMO to further your own end. everyone in the WZ, solo pug or otherwise, is working together. you don't need to be on a premade to work together.

 

I don't really care if you want to premade or not. it certainly has its merits. why you wouldn't see the validity in also wanting to fight in and against teams of pure solo pugs is beyond me. there's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting competitive matches (i.e., relatively close/evenly matched) rather than predetermined outcomes because the best 4 players on the server are stacked on the same team intentionally...every time they queue.

 

edit: you're not the only one. I feel about your reply about the same way you seem to feel about the op's post. oh, yet another guy who wants to twist MMO into his own narrow definition of gaming.

 

Because quite frankly there is no validity to it.

[akabane_k]

Premades are an advantage, however, gear is an advantage, ac is an advantage, correct spec and rotation are advantages as well.

 

Saying premades are unfair is about as logical as saying everyone should be playing the exact same character and have the rotation pre-programmed, so no one can gain an unfair advantage.

[Sydexlic]

There simply is no valid argument for putting a premade group up against a bunch who solo queued. Anyone making an argument to the contrary is simply trying to maintain anunfair advantage.

 

The game is being ruined for many more players than those are who would be harmed because they won't get their daily ego stroke when the can't cheat their way to the top anymore.

 

Yes, ALL premises are cheats. They may not be hacks but the very concept of a premades, and it's often unfair advantage, is cheating every player to go up against.

 

Certainly not all premades meant victory, but the many groups out there that are class and level balancing their groups have ruined it for everyone.

 

On top of this many of them have become quitters when they can't get thei two groups of four into one single match.

 

What's the difference between a pre-made group and you? Friends. /foreveralone

[Sevaar]

What's the difference between a pre-made group and you? Friends. /foreveralone

 

I guess you'd be OK with only fighting others with friends, right? I mean their friends + your friends, it's only fair.

 

Oh wait, they did that with ranked and you STILL ended up premading in the normal queue -- I wonder.

:: gets popcorn ready ::

[jolleebindu]

I premade so I don't lose anymore. It works 99% of the time. Which part of it is cheating? What do we do that you can't do yourself, exactly? Communicate? Work as a team? Pull your weight? I'm curious.

 

select your teammates based on gear level - assuring that you have at least 4 wh geared and augmented players (or better) is enough to win most matches

 

also there is no in game voice, which premades would generally use - so that would definitely provide an advantage to typing out messages

 

keep premades, but if it would result in stacking a team, something more needs to be done (i.e. gear/skill/composition balancing - rearrange the 16 players to get 2 more balanced teams)

[Aegis-Fang]

I agree with the OP. Im fairly new to the game and man is it just not fun when its obvious that you are facing a pre made. Each warfront is a total wipe an every stat on your team is just horrible. This is a good way to drive new players away from this game as fast as you possibly can.

 

Also what is up with the basic programming they use to sort teams out for a warfront? Ive seen and heard of teams, especially below 40, with teams with 4 lvl 15 sages and the other team has 5 lvl 40+ sentinels. It is ridiculous.

[LadyKohastFel]

having a super-queue approach where you could be matched against players from every other server and a significant deserter penalty (like being unable to requeue for one hour of logged in time) would relive the problem caused by premade 8 man teams, they will still be able to join as a 4 man group and play with friends and have a good time, but their odds of finding their other 4 man group so that they have a complete pre-made team would be significantly diminished , and the harsher deserter penalty would discourage them from simply quitting the warzone to try to get the 8 man team together.

 

And if they are really desperate for a 8 man pre-made team they can always queue up for ranked warzones and have a 100% chance of getting their team together to face another 8 man pre-made. (and if the elite PvPers are even half as good as they claim to be then this should be a easy fight, or perhaps they really are just blowhards who can only win against an uncoordinated group of randomly selected people who have only just met)

[ArchangelLBC]

This "honest post" is nothing more than the caricatured representation of partisan ideologues who refuse to accept that Groups have as equal claims to the Queue as the apparently impressively skilled but inexplicably unsuccessful pug players.

 

The reality is that, no matter the content of your complaints, this is a social game in which PVP is centered upon group engagements. It is designed for group-play and Bioware is not going to restrict friends from grouping together for non-rated War Zones.

 

Neither are they going to dilute the PVP population through yet another layer after the new bracketing system is in place in 2.0.

 

I find it interesting that, according to this thread, Premades are ubiquitous on the opposition team but apparently never on your teams, they are so skilled as to single-handedly win each and every War Zone they enter but are staffed with unskilled players incapable of competing had they Queued alone and are also so ubiquitous in the Queue that they ruin nearly every PVP session and yet represent such a minority of the population that their concerns should be subsumed under that of the casual solo-pugger.

 

It is amazing how these arguments are logically incompatible and internally inconsistent and yet are repeatedly offered as proof that "Premades are Ruining" the game.

 

That tends to indicate something to me about the reality behind the motives of those arguing that people playing with groups of friends in an MMO are somehow a problem.

 

 

Pretty much this.

 

What I have yet to hear a valid argument for is why we don't have better matchmaking and why cross server queues are in the "maybe someday but realistically probably never" category. There is almost certainly a technical issue which explains the latter, but people have provided matchmaking algorithms if BW doesn't wanna make their own, so what's the dealio?

[Arlanon]

There are such things as Good PUGs

 

There are such things as Bad Premades

 

What do Good PUGs and Good Premades have in common? Good Players.

 

What do Bad PUGs and Bad Premades have in common? You.

[HuaRya]

I always enjoy how the pro argument for premades like to throw the 'go get some friends'. I'll address that with. Why not meet some people outside your little clique of max geared pals. The fact that you play only in a closed group of friends could be viewed as both elitist and unfriendly.

[RidowHyrim]

Why the principle of this thread (banning social play in regular warzones) is wrong. (in its simplest form)

MMOG = Massively Multiplayer Online Game

SWTOR = MMOG

eliminating social play ≠ MMOG

 

Halo, CoD, Gears of War, etc, thataway -------------------------------------------->

(^also known as lone-wolf ville)

 

Also, stop posting these in the PvP forum. Old, dead, threads are continuously being brought back, and new threads are constantly being posted about a issue that is a non-issue. If you have a problem with people playing together, you're spending your play time in the wrong game genre.

[PowerReaper]

I always enjoy how the pro argument for premades like to throw the 'go get some friends'. I'll address that with. Why not meet some people outside your little clique of max geared pals. The fact that you play only in a closed group of friends could be viewed as both elitist and unfriendly.

 

This is sad, why bother meeting new people for pvp when you already have friends active and wanting to pvp with you. People you know and can get along with ?

[ripamorame]

The people who don't want premades i feel are the scoreboard hero's who don't help their team in a warzone and just want kills. Also if you want solo mass killing on star wars go play battlefront 2 and leave everyone else alone. I do not see why a bunch of friends should be banned and moved around for having fun is their money not as important as yours? Are you so self centered you think a mmo should revolve around your play style and no compromise. Edited April 2, 2013 by ripamorame

[Antalha]

On our server (ToFN) instead of creating competitive and challenging rated matches the premades prefer to own PUGs. Not only that, they are hard at work fixing the odds for themselves. The latest invention is 4-5 stealth camping under the spawn point in Ancient Hypergates, and picking out the respawners 1 or 2 at a time. In a pug this is almost impossible to counter(lack of communication/group composition). Or bringing 3 op healer, and they are unkillable in Voidstar after the first door, because they can switch side quickly and interrupt capping. Or also in Voidstar 4-5 assassin locking down the bridges completely. They are heavily exploiting the imbalances in group compositions and map design. Of course these imbalances happen sometimes at random, but you can always recognize some guild names, who like to do this. And in rated with balanced teams these tactics won't work, so these are reserved for fun PUG-stomping matches.

 

Sometimes I'm put in a group with premades, and the opposite happens. That is also not fun at all, stomping a weaker team. But for a solo queuer this happens seldom, because solo players give up queuing after doing dailies/getting bored of losing. But the dedicated premades are at it for hours, for 4-5 hours meeting the same 2-3 premades, while in the PUG group in one match sometimes there is 25-30(!) name at the end.

 

I see no reason not to separate solo and group queues. The premades only argument against it is "but they like to play with friends." So? You can still play with your friends, against other group of friends. More even games, everybody happy.

[Antalha]

Why the principle of this thread (banning social play in regular warzones) is wrong. (in its simplest form)

MMOG = Massively Multiplayer Online Game

SWTOR = MMOG

eliminating social play ≠ MMOG

 

Separating solo and group queue ≠ eliminating social play. But you know this, you just don't like a fair game.

[cycao]

I should make a guild called <pug stompers>.

[cashogy_reborn]

i like how every PUG anecdote is "i always have a full PUG team against at least 1 of the servers best premades. ALWAYS"

 

maybe you just suck so everyone seems like a highly skilled player in comparison

[ImmortalLeoman]

i like how every PUG anecdote is "i always have a full PUG team against at least 1 of the servers best premades. ALWAYS"

 

maybe you just suck so everyone seems like a highly skilled player in comparison

 

That is the truth! All the people who cry are idiots! So you are telling me I cant play with my friends? Really? Every single multiplayer game (or at the very least, the vast majority) lets you group up with people. Yes, it sucks when you have a bad team, but that happens, get over it.

[Antalha]

i like how every PUG anecdote is "i always have a full PUG team against at least 1 of the servers best premades. ALWAYS"

 

maybe you just suck so everyone seems like a highly skilled player in comparison

 

I like how scared people like you get when this comes up.

 

Are you afraid to face other groups? You want them comms the easier the better, amirite?

 

You don't have to be matched against the best players with full 8 people and best gear. It is enough if they have 4 people with some decent class composition(1 healer can be a huge thing against random groups) and some basic tactics. You don't even need voice communication.

 

The people who don't want premades i feel are the scoreboard hero's who don't help their team in a warzone and just want kills. Also if you want solo mass killing on star wars go play battlefront 2 and leave everyone else alone. I do not see why a bunch of friends should be banned and moved around for having fun is their money not as important as yours? Are you so self centered you think a mmo should revolve around your play style and no compromise.

 

It is hard to "help your team" when you are the 5th guardian tank in the group.

[ImmortalLeoman]

I like how scared people like you get when this comes up.

 

Are you afraid to face other groups? You want them comms the easier the better, amirite?

 

You don't have to be matched against the best players with full 8 people and best gear. It is enough if they have 4 people with some decent class composition(1 healer can be a huge thing against random groups) and some basic tactics. You don't even need voice communication.

 

 

 

It is hard to "help your team" when you are the 5th guardian tank in the group.

 

Good for you? "Afraid to face other groups." *** are you talking about lol! By this point the "good players" have already got all their gear and use coms for medpacs and the like. Please name me some multiplayer games that wont let you group up and play with your friends.

[Antalha]

Good for you? "Afraid to face other groups." *** are you talking about lol! By this point the "good players" have already got all their gear and use coms for medpacs and the like. Please name me some multiplayer games that wont let you group up and play with your friends.

 

Please quote me someone from this forum who said you can't queue with your friends? Groups get other groups, solo players get other solo players. What don't you understand?

[ebado]

I find it interesting that, according to this thread, Premades are ubiquitous on the opposition team but apparently never on your teams, they are so skilled as to single-handedly win each and every War Zone they enter but are staffed with unskilled players incapable of competing had they Queued alone and are also so ubiquitous in the Queue that they ruin nearly every PVP session and yet represent such a minority of the population that their concerns should be subsumed under that of the casual solo-pugger..

 

This is a great summation.

[Slicktime]

we don't want to stop you for playing with your friends. you should only play against other people playing with their friends. why should it only be your way? casual players make this game more money than they elite groups that always lolpugstomp.

[Jadescythe]

I always enjoy how the pro argument for premades like to throw the 'go get some friends'. I'll address that with. Why not meet some people outside your little clique of max geared pals. The fact that you play only in a closed group of friends could be viewed as both elitist and unfriendly.

 

Wouldn't the only reason to play with new people be to meet them and play with them in the future? So we've come full circle on this one: queue up to meet new people and never play with them again because we don't want you premades in our warzones.