The stupid quirks of players in PvP.

[Vember]

A LOT of people simply don't get the basic tactics for the warzones:

 

If you take left and right in Alderaan, you get extra speeders on your dropship going right to those nodes. These speeders are THREE times faster than the 2 "normal" speeders in the middle, and land you perfectly at the nodes. A team using these speeders excessively will *always* win: players get more fight time between dying, they constantly reinforce the sidenodes, even if they then move to another node, and with an optimal team, they even constantly keep eachothers' class buffs up.

 

 

Holding mid and grass or snow is easier to defend because of shorter travel times for live defenders. For those relying on speeders to defend snow and grass, all it takes is one well placed push to keep landing defenders off of the node long enough for the enemy team to cap. I have found, with organized teams, holding grass and snow is harder than holding mid and one side.

[Joesixxpack]

I read this as a thread in disguise, albeit not a very good one, about tagging healers with MVP votes more often.

 

^ This.

 

0/10.

[Hyde_v]

Holding mid and grass or snow is easier to defend because of shorter travel times for live defenders. For those relying on speeders to defend snow and grass, all it takes is one well placed push to keep landing defenders off of the node long enough for the enemy team to cap. I have found, with organized teams, holding grass and snow is harder than holding mid and one side.

I hear that a lot. "Mid / south is easier to defend because it has a shorter travel time from the main spawn point."

 

Ok, yes, they are. But the problem is not the distance. It's the fact that groups do not actually capture mid / south. After several minutes have passed, they still have not captured the node yet they keep going back to it!! Have you ever heard the phrase "repeating the same actions and expecting different results is tatamont to madness?" Or in this case, someone is too stupid to realize that going back to the same location again and again without success accomplishes nothing.

 

I read this as a thread in disguise, albeit not a very good one, about tagging healers with MVP votes more often.

 

Allow me to quote to you from my original post...

 

Over this game's time, I've noted some very peculiar tendancies. For the life of me, I can neither understand them nor fathom an answer as to why these trends continue when they are clearly bad and very unsuccessful.

 

Do notice the underlined words are plural, meaning more then one. Discussing how healers were getting the shaft was only one of the rants I had to make. Your assumption that I only wanted to have everyone focus on only one item is incorrect. Nice try though. /pat

[Kakashioftheye]

This is a bit of a rant aimed no specific individual.

 

Over this game's time, I've noted some very peculiar tendancies. For the life of me, I can neither understand them nor fathom an answer as to why these trends continue when they are clearly bad and very unsuccessful.

 

For example, player's obsession with continually trying to take the southern bunker in the Denova Coast Warzone and the middle turrent in the Civil War Warzone. Especially when it is overwhelmingly clear that said players cannot capture or hold these nodes. Ten minutes in to a warzone and your team has yet to capture a node should be a sign to you to move to another one. Yet again and again and again and again, players run right back to the same untakeable nodes with the mentality of a cow: one cow moves to the right, all cows move to the right. "There's only one defender at this node," someone says. Yet no one goes to that node. They keep trying to take the middle / southern one. And many of those same players do not even once click on the node itself attempting to capture it.

 

I also cannot comprehend why someone feels that their high DPS score makes them the best when they lose the warzone itself. Oh, sure, there is the individual accomplishment. "I did one million damage," they claim. Yeah, but you did not win and thus gained far less of a reward then you would have had you won. A basketball player who always scores seventy points in every game he plays but who's team never wins a game is still a loser (he'll probably be bought off to play on a new team, basketball being what it is.)

 

And lastly, I do not quite see the ...shall we say...value in awarding an MVP vote to the top DPSer while the person with over two hundred thousand in total healing gets no MVP votes. Never have I read in team chat that the top DPS on the other team has been marked so he can be killed first. But I've seen games where someone who did the most DPS will get three or even four MVP votes while a dedicated healer gets nothing. You'd think that a healer has a tougher time of things and should be recognized for their ability to keep everyone alive a little longer and avoid being constantly ganked or even healing while being ganked. But, alas, no. No love for who dare to heal. Meanwhile, the other team had three dedicated healers and they captured the Huttball six times in under five minutes. I'll bet those healers got a vote...or perhaps not.

 

Humans. I cannot figure them out. Filled with such potential but as worthless as a lit match in a can of gasoline.

 

^This.....THIS!!!!!

Edited March 8, 2013 by Kakashioftheye

[Savej]

Nevermind Edited March 8, 2013 by Savej

[Vember]

I hear that a lot. "Mid / south is easier to defend because it has a shorter travel time from the main spawn point."

 

 

It's not the shorter travel time from the main spawn point, its the shorter travel time between the two points themselves. If the majority of your defenders are at snow repelling an attack, the enemy now has a fast run at grass from their spawn while all of your defenders are running across the map to attempt to defend. On the flip side, if you're defenders are moving between grass and mid, for instance, your reaction time is much, much faster.

[Hyde_v]

I think I have figured it out. This is just a theory. But it seems plausible and explains why a lot of PvP in the game is horrible even at max level.

 

The majority of PvPers in this game play badly in Warzones for two reasons. The first is the group of players who are just bad at the game or new. They don't know how to play their class. Or they may believe they do. Others in this first category don't care because watching the flashy graphics on their screen mulls them over like a zambeeni on an ice rink. Players in this first category cannot be helped.

 

The second reason is one that a larger number of players (almost the majority of players) fall in to. I'd say, about 75% of people who do PvP. After enduring loss after loss, they have given up on their fellow players and guess (often correctly) that they are always going to lose in PvP. They have lost more then they have won and just accept it. Some incorrectly believe that things will change once they reach level fifty. But until then, the wins and losses do not matter since your gear will change faster then a stop light will stay lit on yellow. For these players, they instead focus on individual scores. It fills their inner gamer's heart to see their avatar's name at the top of the score screen. They have have lost the war, but they got incredibly high numbers on their DPS / Healing / medal count / kill count, etc. that the losing is no big deal. "I can just queue up again and get the comms," they say. It will just take a little longer.

 

Occasionally, both sets of players will be lucky enough to be placed within a group of like-minded players that actually work together. OR, and this is the big clicker, they will see someone else pulling the same impressive DPS / healing, etc numbers that they are and will then friend up with the other one. This is where players get in to the whole "team" aspect. They will protect and help each other. They may find unusual success in this and wonder if larger numbers will help them improve. As time passes, they may gather themselves in to little PvP groups At this point, players usually fall out of the pug genre. I say "usually" because there is a great chance that it will just be another example of "U cuul bro I lik u" and you get two idiots running in circles doing their own lightsaber sound effects.

 

Of course, saying or typing these insights out publically often gets responses like "You think you're just better then everyone else." Or the gem I read tonight of "I'm reporting you for snobbishness." Hey, I'll admit right now that I'll /sit at a defended node and earn defense medals when it is quite clear that the Warzone cannot be won. After all, if you play as hard as you can and you're still going to lose, you at least want some kind of reward. As you can tell, I fall in to that second reason. You can't win an eight man game by yourself. "Then just quit." Then you get NO reward and are penalized for leaving. Just can't do that.

[Guamguy]

I'm usually the first to call out and grief a team if they're doing something stupid. And most of the time I get the team yelling back at me. But if somebody doesn't get these kids to fall in line and realize what they're doing is wrong how will they ever learn to use their heads in warzones. Stupid things I love to call out are:

 

1. Players that are nothing but lemmings, they have no concept of not leaving 1 player solo to defend a node/pylon/door. These are the guys who do nothing but follow the crowd trying to get their shots in while they leave 1 person to defend a node and they get burn down by 2 or 3 stealthers

 

2. Healers are marked for a reason, burn them down instead of the Jugg or Tank that's guarding the healer. I swear nothing bugs me more than seeing 2 or 3 people attacking a tank and right next to said tank is the marked healer just laughing and healing away.

 

3. Players who decide to play Deathmatch instead of Huttball. Another quirk of mine is players who have no concept of how to play Huttball. In Huttball there's really only 3 things you need to do

 

1- Stay ahead of the ball carrier so he can pass it to you. Having 4 or 5 players all huddling around the ball carrier will not make him stay alive any longer (unless you're a healer)

2- If the opposite team has the ball you shouldn't be me dueling off to the side while the ball carrier is making his way to score on your team. Always focus on the ball carrier or a person ahead trying to receive a pass

3- And for crying out loud, learn to pass the ball. I don't mind if squishy classes grab the ball and run it towards the goal. But if you are getting burned down by 2 or 3 people don't hold the ball till you die, pass it off to a tank who's actually made for tanking. It's so annoying watching a scoundrel or commando walking to the endzone just to end up dying and thinking he was somehow going to live when 4 or 5 guys are attacking him

[AsheraII]

1- Stay ahead of the ball carrier so he can pass it to you. Having 4 or 5 players all huddling around the ball carrier will not make him stay alive any longer (unless you're a healer)

2- If the opposite team has the ball you shouldn't be me dueling off to the side while the ball carrier is making his way to score on your team. Always focus on the ball carrier or a person ahead trying to receive a pass

3- And for crying out loud, learn to pass the ball. I don't mind if squishy classes grab the ball and run it towards the goal. But if you are getting burned down by 2 or 3 people don't hold the ball till you die, pass it off to a tank who's actually made for tanking. It's so annoying watching a scoundrel or commando walking to the endzone just to end up dying and thinking he was somehow going to live when 4 or 5 guys are attacking him

 

For Huttball, there's also a control part. People often yell "control mid" at the start of the game, but that's only a third of the whole story. There's also "control OUR ramp" and "control THEIR ramp". And for each area, there's one or two classes ideally suited to the task. Some people are so focussed on "controlling mid", that they run right past the enemy player camping the scoreline. I often see entire teams jump into the pit after the ball carrier, completely ignoring the enemy snipers/gunslingers and powertechs/vanguards setting shop on top of the ramp, just waiting for the moment to pull a carrier back on top, and take the ball back, only meters from the scoreline.

 

Snipers and Gunslingers are the perfect characters to keep your own ramps clear. So why are they all the way there at the enemy ramp? Because their team controls your ramp as well, and your team doesn't threaten their ramp at all. There should be stealthers on their own ramp, constantly kicking them off to make a path for ball carriers, but nobody is. For some reason, the stealthers are hunting ballcarriers. All the other classes are great for carrying the ball and supporting the ballcarrier, but leave the "control" part to stealthers for the enemy ramp and snipers/gunslingers for your own ramp. If there's a lack of either, then it's great if a BH or Trooper fills the blank, or maybe a sorc, but ideally, those would handle the ball-play or keep the carrier alive. Loose your ramp, and you loose the game.

[Pingonaut]

I'm pretty sure the tanks and dps only believe in tough love for healers.

 

I always vote MVP for a good healer. No one ever notices the tank keeping you from getting hurt, though. Not really. I understand the frustrations for healers. DPS don't realize that the people allowing him to get such high DPS are the healers and tanks (except for the good DPS people who know what they're doing).

[biguydeadd]

 

 

 

The healer, after LoSing the dps who are focusing him, continues his valiant efforts to heal said sentinel. He bubbles him and he starts healing him. This is the moment that our genius sentinel will choose to make his strategic move of...f***g leaping to a random enemy who's far away from the node and the healer's reach.

 

Meanwhile, the healer is stunned/rooted/roflstomped while the enemy team who doesn't have players with an average IQ of -10, tries to cap the middle. Capping is interrupted.

 

Our healer pulls the rampaging Sentinel back hoping that he will realize he needs to help guard the node, alas, our Sentinel sees this as an excellent chance to... leap again to his previous target somewhere far, far away and the fight continues because the enemy player is now certain that said Sentinel is a moron."

 

 

But I swear, sometimes I think that if your IQ is less than 0, these classes are the ones you're most likely to pick.

 

Oh my god,you nailed it.

 

I always vote MVP for a good healer. No one ever notices the tank keeping you from getting hurt, though. Not really. I understand the frustrations for healers. DPS don't realize that the people allowing him to get such high DPS are the healers and tanks (except for the good DPS people who know what they're doing).

 

At least the healers will generally vote for the tanks

Edited March 10, 2013 by biguydeadd

[Seireeni]

The most annoying thing in pvp is people whining about problems istead of doing something to them. I.e. I've had a match where this one person whined about who no one was healing, while our healers got killed in 5 seconds because they got at least 2 maras jumping at them at the second they left the secured area (and this was in voidstar defending). No one even tried to do anything to it, and the whiner was a vanguard, dps yes, but he could have easily taunted those maras or even pulled one of them off the healers' backs so they could stay alive even a little longer. But no, whining was so much more fun.

 

Guideline to writing to ops chat: if you don't have anything useful to say, don't say anything at all. Whining about problems for the whole match doesn't help, but when you figure out a solution, then you have something worth writing.

 

Of course, there are always people who don't listen even if you do figure out a solution to a problem and even announce it...sigh. Espeacially in Novare Coast, if you hold both w and e, there will always be 1-4 people in south for some reason I really can't understand.

[BobaScott]

The most annoying thing in pvp is people whining about problems istead of doing something to them. I.e. I've had a match where this one person whined about who no one was healing, while our healers got killed in 5 seconds because they got at least 2 maras jumping at them at the second they left the secured area (and this was in voidstar defending). No one even tried to do anything to it, and the whiner was a vanguard, dps yes, but he could have easily taunted those maras or even pulled one of them off the healers' backs so they could stay alive even a little longer. But no, whining was so much more fun.

 

Guideline to writing to ops chat: if you don't have anything useful to say, don't say anything at all. Whining about problems for the whole match doesn't help, but when you figure out a solution, then you have something worth writing.

 

Of course, there are always people who don't listen even if you do figure out a solution to a problem and even announce it...sigh. Espeacially in Novare Coast, if you hold both w and e, there will always be 1-4 people in south for some reason I really can't understand.

 

Oh this drives me nuts. If you have a team member who writes to chat more than two times about how awful the team is and no one is doing it right, you know you are going to lose. Not because they are right, but because you are short one player who is guilty of everything they are whining about.

 

I followed one of these guys once and found that he was running off by himself under the central node and stopping so he could type in chat. When I called him out, he quit the WZ within seconds.

[annabethchase]

Why do I constantly read that "healers can't guard a node". No, healers are actually great at guarding nodes if they know what they are doing. I can outlast anyone in a 1v1 fight. Yes, even longer than a comprably geared tank. I have heals and use them to keep myself alive while you respond.

 

A healer may be more useful elsewhere, but they dang sure are good at 1v1 node guarding.

[annabethchase]

Holding mid and grass or snow is easier to defend because of shorter travel times for live defenders. For those relying on speeders to defend snow and grass, all it takes is one well placed push to keep landing defenders off of the node long enough for the enemy team to cap. I have found, with organized teams, holding grass and snow is harder than holding mid and one side.

 

We're talking about normal experience, not best of the best ranked teams.

[Hyde_v]

Loose your ramp, and you loose the game.

"Lose." One O.

 

Actually, I've found the ramps to be a bit more important then holding the middle. The reason for this is that there are no real hazards in the middle (if you fall in to the acid, that's you're own derpy fault.) Some well timed crowd control can ruin a ball carrier's day on the ramps. But lately, I've noticed a lot of teams are avoiding the ramps altogether and jumping in to the pits and passing the ball to team members in the end zone. It works well too. And it always follows that after a couple of scores like that, players start guarding the end zone and guarentees that the ball carrier's team will get a neutral ball.

 

As for calling out your team, yes, I do it. I won't name individuals. But I sure will call out the team. I'm told I don't serve a purpose doing so. But I am the type of person that will point out the elephant in the room. If you lose, I lose. And if you're just farming in the middle, I'm going to blast you. Sometimes I really do wish I COULD blast a teammate. Maybe a bowcaster bolt in your butt will wake you up. Or at least make you remember why you got that bolt in the first place every time you /sit.

Edited March 10, 2013 by Hyde_v

[Sentanta]

I had a funny one yesterday - Pre-50 WZ,

 

I always go and take the side turret in Civil War - when I got to the turret - I turned around and noticed that 5 others had followed me!

 

After capping the side - I ran to mid - in a panic that the other team would be capping it but no - for some reason - I ran in and there were 3 enemy players just standing around the turret - nobody had actually interacted with it!

 

My "posse" came in behind me and engaged the 3 in combat - and I just ran up and capped the turret!

 

This made me feel better cos I realised that I wasn't on the MOST stupid team!

[DesmoLegacy]

Nothing and I mean nothing eats away at me than seeing pure dps classes manage less than 200k dmg while wearing WH gear in a full length WZ. When I ask them *** they did for the last 15 minutes they tell me the famous baddie anthum:

 

DMG doesn't matter, I was doing objectives!!!!!1111

 

This is the battle cry of the keyboard turner. I would love to see what objectives you were doing in voidstar and civil war when you were clearly not attacking anyone. Clicking a door or node over and over and over while your team is getting destroyed by people who know how to play their class does not count as "doing objectives".

 

The only ones with that excuse are stealth classes and dps classes helping offheal, and node defenders.

 

You win by wiping the other team and capturing the objective. Yeah, the occasional fail group may let you cap right under their nose but any self respecting pre-made wont let that happen. Play to win, not play to assume the other team is full of idiots. Ever play with a healer raging in voice chat because he can't heal fast enough to keep his team up? Yeah those games are usually losses because the players on the other team are absolutely beasting the dmg charts. Maybe other servers can get away with this but there are alot of good dmg dealers on Harbinger, clicking doors hoping they wont notice doesn't work and renders your team at a disadvantage.

 

Another "stupid quirk"

 

People who don't look ahead of the BC in huttball, both offensively and defensively. Those two assassins up on the ramps? Yeah, expect them to get a pass. Oh you concentrated on the current ball carrier down below thinking you can kill him before he passes? Doesn't work! Too bad you blew your load trying to kill the sniper with the ball near the gas pool.

 

Oh you thought you were going to score? You didn't see the three knockback classes ahead of you waiting for you to run in front of them?

Edited March 11, 2013 by DesmoLegacy

[BobaScott]

This is the battle cry of the keyboard turner.

 

I don't want to assume what you meant so I will just ask - did you mean this as "keyboard turners" shouldn't pvp?

 

There are those who hold the elitist belief that you should only play the different parts of the game in a certain fashion or if you don't then you are doing it wrong. This annoys me more than anything and not just in pvp. In the end we all play this as an escape to enjoy ourselves and that seems to get lost at times.

Edited March 10, 2013 by BobaScott

[CaptRavenous]

Insanity:

Performing the same task the same way over & over again, and expecting a different result each time.

 

This thread supports my theory that all hardcore PvPers are insane.

[iheartnyc]

This is true, but you just need a team working together.

 

You do this by prepping the team sitting at West/East (whichvever is closer) that you have a number of players about to leave the starting pen, and that they need to swing over to defend the other node, then you run out of your pen toward the closest node, while those who were previously AT the node are already half-way to the other node.

 

If you wait and keep people at the nodes and the new spawns have to constantly run ALL THE WAY across the map back to that far node, yeah, you'll lose it.

 

But if the near-cap team is ready, and is constantly shifting over to reinforce while new spawns come to get the closest cap, it can be done quite easily.

 

So you think people should be staring at their chat message screen for that "shift" message to come? Lol OK not going to happen. Especially if said near-node defenders happen to be busy doing their jobs defending and not staring at their chat messages.

 

Given the huge potential downside + high probability of the above scenario happening, this strategy is NEVER a good default idea in a PUG group, and is best reserved for rated teams.

 

Of course good players who happened to be in a PUG together can instinctively pull this off with no comms, and I've seen this happen, but more often than not people do not read chat messages in Warzones.

[iheartnyc]

It's not the shorter travel time from the main spawn point, its the shorter travel time between the two points themselves. If the majority of your defenders are at snow repelling an attack, the enemy now has a fast run at grass from their spawn while all of your defenders are running across the map to attempt to defend. On the flip side, if you're defenders are moving between grass and mid, for instance, your reaction time is much, much faster.

 

Exactly right.

[iheartnyc]

I also cannot comprehend why someone feels that their high DPS score makes them the best when they lose the warzone itself. Oh, sure, there is the individual accomplishment. "I did one million damage," they claim. Yeah, but you did not win and thus gained far less of a reward then you would have had you won. A basketball player who always scores seventy points in every game he plays but who's team never wins a game is still a loser (he'll probably be bought off to play on a new team, basketball being what it is.)

 

 

1) Higher damage output makes it easier to get objectives

2) More damage = more kills = more enemy players spending time in their respawn

3) Teams with higher DPS tend to win more often than not

4) Most important, when was the last time you saw a basketball player scoring 70 points in a game and that team losing?

Edited March 11, 2013 by iheartnyc

[Seireeni]

1) Higher damage output makes it easier to get objectives

2) More damage = more kills = more enemy players spending time in their respawn

3) Teams with higher DPS tend to win more often than not

4) Most important, when was the last time you saw a basketball player scoring 70 points in a game and that team losing?

 

I don't play basketball, but I've pretty often seen the team with lesser dps win because of better healers/tanks and interrupts.

[iheartnyc]

I don't play basketball, but I've pretty often seen the team with lesser dps win because of better healers/tanks and interrupts.

 

Yes but how close were the DPS outputs of both teams? Good strategy/team build can triumph over somewhat better opponents, but all things being equal, you need very solid DPS to consistently win games. Oh and not sure why I have to state the obvious, but having good DPS makes the jobs of the "healers/tanks" much easier.

 

PVP in an MMO can be viewed mathematically. There are basically only two things that need to occur to win a WZ. Capture the necessary objective points, and achieve as high a net damage result as possible. Obviously, net damage factors in damage that is mitigated either through direct healing, medpacs, and indirect forms of damage mitigation including CCs and sending enemy players back to their respawn. Basically you want to reduce the opponent's [Time x DPS] in order to help you achieve objective points. The best damage mitigation is achieved either through superb heals, or simply sending the enemy players back to respawn. Having multiple enemies in the game is bad because they can interrupt your healer output and DPS output, not to mention their ability to interrupt any attempts on the objective. Put simply, the best and most effective option to win a game is to kill as many enemy players as fast as you can. Which is why players spend so much time gearing up to increase DPS and survivability, doing things like calling targets and focus firing, as opposed to repeatedly clicking objective points or trying to "ninja" cap - those gimmicks only really work on nubs. This is the nature of any gear/equipment based PVP game.

Edited March 11, 2013 by iheartnyc