The stupid quirks of players in PvP.

[Koyaanisqat]

So for the love of the Force: give your healer some love...

 

this is pretty entitled. Healer is a role. It is not more important than other roles. It is equal.

 

My only perception of quirks is the tunnel-vision people can get.

[nicosand]

I have almost completly stoped pvping with just pugs. When you lose 9 out of 10 matches because ppl are unable to get even the most basic tactics, it gets really tedious.

 

So many here have already pointed out the most obvious mistakes ppl do, so I wont repeat them.

The biggest 2 issues is that alot of players ONLY focus on the amount of medals they are getting, and how many players they kill. Which in the end doesnt matter at all. On my operative, I did zero kills and did zero dmg, but I got 10k objective points by scoring 4 goals in hutball and winning the match.

 

But what actually really annoys me, altho it really shouldnt, is the MVP system. I've completly stopped using my sin tank i pvp, simpley because no matte how much protection or objective score i get, i rarely get any MVP votes. In one WZ I did on my tank i got around 150k protection and 7-8k objective (cant remember if it was alderaan or voidstar) And I didnt get any mvp altho i had the highest protection score of all, and highest objective on my team.

The MVP in my eyes is a recognition from your team that you did your duty for the team.

 

I really hope that BW just makes MVP voting automated, maybe just give 3 "MVP points" to top DPS, Heal, prot and objective, 2 for nr2 and 1 for nr3.

[Screaming_Ziva]

Here are a couple of my pet-peaves about PvP:

 

#1 - Leaving 1 defender at a node. This happens to me a lot and I hate it. If a single defender gets attacked by two stealthers (which happens a lot), the node will be lost. Period. There is nothing the defender can do about it. They can call for help but the node will be lost by the time help arrives. You should always leave 2 defenders at a node.

 

#2 - If you have two nodes capped with 4 defending each node and someone calls out "1 incoming West", why on Earth are 3 people from the other defended node running over to help? That then leaves 1 person at the other node and, well, see #1.

 

#3 - Going for a 3 cap. This is probably the most irritating thing to me. You have two nodes well defended but someone always tries to cap the third weakening the defenses at one of your defended nodes. You have two nodes, you're going to win 99% of the time. I have seen teams lose a node so many times when trying for a three cap it's not even funny anymore.

[Elear]

And lastly, I do not quite see the ...shall we say...value in awarding an MVP vote to the top DPSer while the person with over two hundred thousand in total healing gets no MVP votes. Never have I read in team chat that the top DPS on the other team has been marked so he can be killed first. But I've seen games where someone who did the most DPS will get three or even four MVP votes while a dedicated healer gets nothing. You'd think that a healer has a tougher time of things and should be recognized for their ability to keep everyone alive a little longer and avoid being constantly ganked or even healing while being ganked. But, alas, no. No love for who dare to heal. Meanwhile, the other team had three dedicated healers and they captured the Huttball six times in under five minutes. I'll bet those healers got a vote...or perhaps not.

 

Har har har. This is my favourite quirk of all players, where healers are most dominant group possesing it.

"Why oh why I don't get my mvp votes" "I'm a healer, I deserve those votes" "I capped all doors, I deserve those votes" "I killed everyone on this node, I deserve those votes" And it's obviously impossible that anyone else deserves it more.

[Andryah]

A LOT of people simply don't get the basic tactics for the warzones:

 

QFT.

 

Personally, I don't play them often, but when I do I like to take time to assess what tactics are effective to give an edge to progress against opponents. But yeah, a lot of people just want to play some form "zombie assault" or "spank the monkey" IMO. Which is why I don't do warzones except with people I know and who will play the zone rather then act like blind hyperactive gerbils with ADHD looking for cheetos in other players socks.

Edited March 6, 2013 by Andryah

[Kubernetic]

Denova - Why take mid? It's the shortest run from spawn to mid. It is the easier node to guard if you have it which makes it far more valuable than the far node which is usually easy to take but almost impossible to hold assuming team strengths are in the same ballpark: the enemy respawns fast and will whittle defenders of the far node down more quickly than defenders can run to it. You should try to attack the node to distract defenders from mid but usually Denova victories go to the ones that take and hold mid the longest. Any time I see a team take and hold the far node and win that way, I see a team that could have won more easily in mid.

 

This is true, but you just need a team working together.

 

You do this by prepping the team sitting at West/East (whichvever is closer) that you have a number of players about to leave the starting pen, and that they need to swing over to defend the other node, then you run out of your pen toward the closest node, while those who were previously AT the node are already half-way to the other node.

 

If you wait and keep people at the nodes and the new spawns have to constantly run ALL THE WAY across the map back to that far node, yeah, you'll lose it.

 

But if the near-cap team is ready, and is constantly shifting over to reinforce while new spawns come to get the closest cap, it can be done quite easily.

[sumuji]

You're not seriously punished for losing. That's the problem. If losers got no currency, valor, or experience you'd see some much different warzones.

[Andryah]

You're not seriously punished for losing. That's the problem. If losers got no currency, valor, or experience you'd see some much different warzones.

 

A lot of truth to this I think.

 

Imagine if you had to pony up a deposit to play the warzone (which you forfeit to the winning team if you lose), and/or randomly took 100% damage to one or more pieces of gear because you lost (or simply died). It would change player behavior but it would also mean most people would not PUG in Warzones so it would become a playfield for only the serious players (fixed teams, or guild teams).

 

The gerbils would get really serious really quick. No, scratch that.. they would just not play and come flame the forums about how it's too hard... and must be dumbed down NAO!.

[AsheraII]

Har har har. This is my favourite quirk of all players, where healers are most dominant group possesing it.

"Why oh why I don't get my mvp votes" "I'm a healer, I deserve those votes" "I capped all doors, I deserve those votes" "I killed everyone on this node, I deserve those votes" And it's obviously impossible that anyone else deserves it more.

I like getting votes, and as a DPS-er guarding a door or a hot cannon, I regularly top damage, kills AND medals. Often objectives as well. The fun part is: I can't vote for myself. So once you topped the chart a few times (and gotten a LOT of votes out of it, my votes:win ratio is around 2:1 now), you start to look at the scoreboard a bit different. You can learn to figure out who the assets were in the game. A DPS-er with a 75k damage medal doesn't mean much. Unless he entered midgame, he should always get that medal.

However, someone with over 75k healing and over 75k damage is another thing.

Hover over their objective score, and you'll see what objectives they got points for: attack or defense. Hover over their medal-count, and you'll see what medals they got exactly.

 

So, I learned to look at those MVP's different. Yes, I still like to get a few bonus comms, but I don't envy others for getting them either. Usually, I can justify for myself why THEY got the votes instead of me. And I don't mind, because I can.

 

And even then, sometimes my vote now still goes to the guy that was guarding the quiet node without a single enemy even looking at it. You get very few points/medals/comms for pure guard duty, and it is boring as hell, so yes, I sometimes vote for them as a thank you for doing the boring job. So my votes are generally all over the place. Just the people who are complaining too hard or keep cursing never get any. Usually that results only in more complaints, but ah well. /ignore

Edited March 6, 2013 by AsheraII

[Maraxuss]

This is a bit of a rant aimed no specific individual.

 

Over this game's time, I've noted some very peculiar tendancies. For the life of me, I can neither understand them nor fathom an answer as to why these trends continue when they are clearly bad and very unsuccessful.

 

For example, player's obsession with continually trying to take the southern bunker in the Denova Coast Warzone and the middle turrent in the Warzone. Especially when it is overwhelmingly clear that said players cannot capture or hold these nodes. Ten minutes in to a warzone and your team has yet to capture a node should be a sign to you to move to another one. Yet again and again and again and again, players run right back to the same untakeable nodes with the mentality of a cow: one cow moves to the right, all cows move to the right. "There's only one defender at this node," someone says. Yet no one goes to that node. They keep trying to take the middle / southern one. And many of those same players do not even once click on the node itself attempting to capture it.

 

I also cannot comprehend why someone feels that their high DPS score makes them the best when they lose the warzone itself. Oh, sure, there is the individual accomplishment. "I did one million damage," they claim. Yeah, but you did not win and thus gained far less of a reward then you would have had you won. A basketball player who always scores seventy points in every game he plays but who's team never wins a game is still a loser (he'll probably be bought off to play on a new team, basketball being what it is.)

 

And lastly, I do not quite see the ...shall we say...value in awarding an MVP vote to the top DPSer while the person with over two hundred thousand in total healing gets no MVP votes. Never have I read in team chat that the top DPS on the other team has been marked so he can be killed first. But I've seen games where someone who did the most DPS will get three or even four MVP votes while a dedicated healer gets nothing. You'd think that a healer has a tougher time of things and should be recognized for their ability to keep everyone alive a little longer and avoid being constantly ganked or even healing while being ganked. But, alas, no. No love for who dare to heal. Meanwhile, the other team had three dedicated healers and they captured the Huttball six times in under five minutes. I'll bet those healers got a vote...or perhaps not.

 

Humans. I cannot figure them out. Filled with such potential but as worthless as a lit match in a can of gasoline.

 

If your team can't take the middle in coast warzone....your sure not going to take thier other "Home Node" by virtue of Attrition. They spawn there....your team runs the entire length of the map to even get back to that node. Sure you might take it, but you won't keep it, its a diversionary tactic to draw enemy team FROM the middle to protect thier home node, so that your team CAN Take The Middle. Thats why in coast warzone the whole match is usually decided in about 75% of the matches in the first 2 minutes...whoever gets middle first is almost assured a win, barring any major gear advantages, excellent compotion, etc. After that its just the basic tenet of truth....its a whole lot easier to defend a node than to take it.

Edited March 6, 2013 by Maraxuss

[Pistols-GS]

Players can choose who they think is MVP, and that can be decided on many variables. Understand, while top DPS'er may not have been the best asset on the team, he does a lot more for healers than you realize. There is a term called "peels", and when a DPS or two rips up the guys who are about to pounce on a healer, and do it often, they tend to be much like a tank in that respect. Having said that, all classes have MVP potential, not just healers. It really comes down to the WZ, and what each player did, and how each individual "saw it".

 

Regardless, every player has their own perspective on who they think deserves their vote, and with a vote giving only 1 extra comm, it's really not that important. MVP votes are not decided by roles in WZ's for me (heals, dps, tanks or node guarders), but who had the biggest impact at achieving the best chance at winning the game. Sometimes it's more than one player, but we only get 1 vote and well, that's just the way it is. Nothing to fret over.

[Maraxuss]

This is true, but you just need a team working together.

 

You do this by prepping the team sitting at West/East (whichvever is closer) that you have a number of players about to leave the starting pen, and that they need to swing over to defend the other node, then you run out of your pen toward the closest node, while those who were previously AT the node are already half-way to the other node.

 

If you wait and keep people at the nodes and the new spawns have to constantly run ALL THE WAY across the map back to that far node, yeah, you'll lose it.

 

But if the near-cap team is ready, and is constantly shifting over to reinforce while new spawns come to get the closest cap, it can be done quite easily.

 

You seriously don't think a Pug, will ever do this in a million years do you? Agree with a rated team, or friends queing together that has thier ducks in a row....but will never happen pug.

[Pistols-GS]

You seriously don't think a Pug, will ever do this in a million years do you? Agree with a rated team, or friends queing together that has thier ducks in a row....but will never happen pug.

 

PUG =/= People who have no idea how to play.

 

It's not uncommon for a legit PUG to consist of players who have a good idea what needs to be done, even without a lot of communication via chat. Matter of fact, on our server, it's quite common to see players rotate accordingly, and lots of chat via Ops. People have a misconception of "PUG" in their minds, and it doesn't always lead to auto-fail. Sure there some who just don't move, or unsure of what they need to do, but I've seen plenty of PUG groups perform very well, and in some cases better than a 4 man pre-made on the opposing side.

[Hyde_v]

You're not seriously punished for losing. That's the problem. If losers got no currency, valor, or experience you'd see some much different warzones.

 

In the early days of WoW's Battlegrounds, the loser received NOTHING but the points you earned on your kills. Shortly after, Blizzard changed that to allow the losing team a small amount of reward (at the time, you earned badges that you turned in three at a time for gear and such.) It stayed that way although adjusted from time to time. Now, it's pretty standard in games now that a losing side gets a much smaller reward then the winning team. I do prefer that since I hate busting my hump as hard as I can only to lose because everyone else on my team is a crap player.

 

But there are times when I wish the losing side did not get any kind of reward or so less of one as to make the loser feel embarassed about their loss. It might inspire some to play better. But it will have a majority of people whining that PvP is too hard and that they cannot get any gear because the teams always suck. Eventually, these whiners would quit playing. The developers would hate that.

[Neverfar]

A lot of truth to this I think.

 

Imagine if you had to pony up a deposit to play the warzone (which you forfeit to the winning team if you lose), and/or randomly took 100% damage to one or more pieces of gear because you lost (or simply died). It would change player behavior but it would also mean most people would not PUG in Warzones so it would become a playfield for only the serious players (fixed teams, or guild teams).

 

The gerbils would get really serious really quick. No, scratch that.. they would just not play and come flame the forums about how it's too hard... and must be dumbed down NAO!.

 

I may get rather annoyed at dumb PVPers, but the glass-chewer mentality won't help either. Griefers and trolls would sabotage the match for their own giggles.

[well]

Most of these things boggle me as well. We were in a match just the other day on Civil War, they capped snow, we capped grass, then fought to a stalemate at mid, with no one able to cap it. Eventually I got a hunch and ran snow, and found out they had sent their 8th guy from snow into mid, outnumbering us, so it was an easy steal to get snow.

 

Now, the problem.

 

Now we've got snow, grass, and mid is contested and uncapped. I start shouting into the chat to get out of mid and get to the sides so we can defend, but here go people still charging into mid.

 

Eventually, we lost snow, and as we lost snow, we capped mid. But now we're left, obviously, with grass and mid, with mid much less defensible than snow, since the speeder can often dump you off in a perfect spot to interrupt an enemy cap. Not at all the case with mid...

 

Some people obviously aren't interested in the goals and objectives, and just want to pew pew pew. I guess it's the interaction between the actual PVPers and the PEWPEWers that causes all of these issues...

 

I agree.I have a large ignore list.You get some yutt yelling you suck and the game hasn't started.Funny thing is I've seen it go on even after the team won.Anyhow it is key the focus be on the doors.To easy to ninja.Also as far as healers I vote for them most times if they are actually healing not off to the side doing Noble Sacrifice and healing themselves.

[Talon_strikes]

Players can choose who they think is MVP, and that can be decided on many variables. Understand, while top DPS'er may not have been the best asset on the team, he does a lot more for healers than you realize. There is a term called "peels", and when a DPS or two rips up the guys who are about to pounce on a healer, and do it often, they tend to be much like a tank in that respect. Having said that, all classes have MVP potential, not just healers. It really comes down to the WZ, and what each player did, and how each individual "saw it".

 

Regardless, every player has their own perspective on who they think deserves their vote, and with a vote giving only 1 extra comm, it's really not that important. MVP votes are not decided by roles in WZ's for me (heals, dps, tanks or node guarders), but who had the biggest impact at achieving the best chance at winning the game. Sometimes it's more than one player, but we only get 1 vote and well, that's just the way it is. Nothing to fret over.

For how I "see" performance of players in WZs, I usually go for the player who was stuck defending, or had the 2nd highest DPS or healing done on the team. As for Tanking, well I virtually never run into that. Almost in every Warzone I catch myself off-tanking for the whole team.

[x_Boots_x]

When people just leave a node or pylon with no one there to protect it, its either the ultimate act of ignorance or selfishness.

[Knockerz]

I give mvp votes to the character that is dressed the cutest regardless of what happens in the warzone. I'm sorry, but you can win all the matches, but if your not dress to kill your doing it wrong and not getting my vote. Now that is out of the way, I do vote for whoever did excellent healing, dps, or tanking. However, I'm bias for well and innovative dressed characters. I also look for neat sounding names. If your character has a horrible name your not getting my mvp vote.

 

When I play on my bastion sage healer, I'm always high on the target list for the opposing team. I also have a rare name or hard to get name, that is easy to memories. It's more fun to play on my healer due all the people chasing you trying to kill. It's great even when your team. Finally, I notice on my healer I get more votes than on my jugg or any character because often in pugs don't have healers and having a healer or not often makes the difference between a win or lose. I thin that is why people tend to vote healers more than tanks or dps.

[sumuji]

In the early days of WoW's Battlegrounds, the loser received NOTHING but the points you earned on your kills. Shortly after, Blizzard changed that to allow the losing team a small amount of reward (at the time, you earned badges that you turned in three at a time for gear and such.) It stayed that way although adjusted from time to time. Now, it's pretty standard in games now that a losing side gets a much smaller reward then the winning team. I do prefer that since I hate busting my hump as hard as I can only to lose because everyone else on my team is a crap player.

 

But there are times when I wish the losing side did not get any kind of reward or so less of one as to make the loser feel embarassed about their loss. It might inspire some to play better. But it will have a majority of people whining that PvP is too hard and that they cannot get any gear because the teams always suck. Eventually, these whiners would quit playing. The developers would hate that.

 

In this game though it's not a much smaller reward. It's like 10-20% les than the winners and that's hardly of any significance. So ever WZ becomes a tab targetting deathmatch and it's understandable that annoys people that actually want to win.

 

I agree though you couldn't just give the losers zip because people would loeave in droves. Maybe if it were a decade ago but players wouldn't stick around for that today. Maybe there's a compromise somewhere but I seriously doubt BW would have it on their list of things to do. Just be thankfull they managed to work in contribution and x out afkers.

[DarthMaulUK]

I've noticed the most outspoken angry people in PVP teams are the ones that are semi-idle while ranting and blaming their team for a loss or a setback. I will never fully understand this behavior.

 

"wow really u guyz r baddz" says the guy with two medals guarding the safest node. What satisfaction does he get? Does he think any of us are convinced by deductive fallacy that he's a "pro" pvper for putting down the rest of the team? Gets my goat.

 

 

Guarding a node is important. In a map like Novare Coast, I am always amazed at how blinkered people are in the middle not to notice if east/west falls under attack. It doesn't take much to look and open your eyes to check. because if the enemy aren't at your location, it doesn't take much to figure out where they are/heading....

[MGriffith]

In my experience, these people don't even need a specific violator of PVP expections to hurl the "ur badz" around. They inflate themselves indirectly by insulting their teams <snipped>. Some start the "ur badz" a mere minute into a match at the first setback.

 

The Southpark song 'Blame Canada' might offer a useful insight in the mindset that produces this kind of behaviour. The song itself is fun and all that, but the kicker comes at the very last line '... before somebody thinks of blaming us'

My guess is that by pre-emptively lashing out they hope to avoid close scrutiny of their own performance.

That, and an inflated sense of their own abilities and importance of course.

[MGriffith]

A lot of truth to this I think.

 

Imagine if you had to pony up a deposit to play the warzone (which you forfeit to the winning team if you lose), and/or randomly took 100% damage to one or more pieces of gear because you lost (or simply died). It would change player behavior but it would also mean most people would not PUG in Warzones so it would become a playfield for only the serious players (fixed teams, or guild teams).

 

The gerbils would get really serious really quick. No, scratch that.. they would just not play and come flame the forums about how it's too hard... and must be dumbed down NAO!.

 

And I think here you have a winner idea for tournament warzones. Teams sign up for a season but must indeed put down a sizeable deposit for playing which they forfeit on losing, or at least losing badly.

 

Add to that mobile cameras (where your POV is slaved to that of the camera so if you tune in you see what the camera sees) for close up action shots of the event and you hopefully will see some professional (within the game) PvP teams that really know what they are doing and can make the whole thing exciting and fun to watch. And might encourage players to learn well enough to participate. Put 'operations rooms' into the game where non-participating players can tune into various camera views of the event, and spectator galleries for hutball style warzones.

Could add the same functionality to cantinas too now I think about it (so players have a reason to go there to watch the war (or match in the case of huttball).

 

And for added fun teams that make it to the final rounds get to wear unique gear, outside the warzone of course, that can not otherwise be sold, bought or crafted) until the start of the next season, so that everybody can recognise the winners of a warzone tournament.

[Belacose]

Add to that mobile cameras (where your POV is slaved to that of the camera so if you tune in you see what the camera sees) for close up action shots of the event and you hopefully will see some professional (within the game) PvP teams that really know what they are doing and can make the whole thing exciting and fun to watch. And might encourage players to learn well enough to participate. Put 'operations rooms' into the game where non-participating players can tune into various camera views of the event, and spectator galleries for hutball style warzones.

Could add the same functionality to cantinas too now I think about it (so players have a reason to go there to watch the war (or match in the case of huttball).

 

Indeed would serve as an excelent tool for educating new players as well as encouraging them to want to join in!

 

One of the best ideas I've ever read in these forums, MGriffith.

[Killtastrophe]

I read this as a thread in disguise, albeit not a very good one, about tagging healers with MVP votes more often.