Stop forcing PVP on PVE servers

[anonnn]

This is not an accurate example of what you are requesting though.

 

A better comparison would be a person who wants to ride the bumper cars at Disneyland but does not enjoy it when other people bump into them during the ride. So instead of being content with the rest if the park they insist Disneyland make a separate ride where no one else is there to bump into them.

 

Failure. Complete inconsideration of others, and ignorance of the fact that there is the PvP flagging system in the first place, to allow any players on PvE servers to avoid PvP. It can have no semblance of something like a bumper car ride. Through your errant analogy you are illustrating just how desperate for argument your chosen posturing is, which is impossible to mend because you refuse to take into consideration the rights of strictly PvE-only players. This inherent flaw in your attitude is just going to cause yourself grief every time you try to argue your case. You, sir, could NEVER become employed at Disneyland.

[anonnn]

No it's not out of thin air. It is simply applying that same "consideration" to ALL players not just that player group you claim to represent.

 

I say it's only fair for strictly PvE-only players if they can earn the same daily Event trophies as other players (without having to flag for PvP), and you claim that there's a rule that prohibits PvE-only players from earning the full daily Event reward as other players without flagging for PvP. I think this is the most ridiculous "argument" posted yet in this thread. You should really just stop posting here ...

[SWGEvictee]

Failure. Complete inconsideration of others, and ignorance of the fact that there is the PvP flagging system in the first place, to allow any players on PvE servers to avoid PvP. It can have no semblance of something like a bumper car ride. Through your errant analogy you are illustrating just how desperate for argument your chosen posturing is, which is impossible to mend because you refuse to take into consideration the rights of strictly PvE-only players. This inherent flaw in your attitude is just going to cause yourself grief every time you try to argue your case. You, sir, could NEVER become employed at Disneyland.

 

Deny it all you want. I hit the target dead center.

[anonnn]

Deny it all you want. I hit the target dead center.

 

Your errant analogy is just a sad and indirect way to try to force PvP on PvE players. You're just a trouble-maker.

 

Really, you need to stop trolling in this thread ... you have not stated even a single valid rationale for trying to dis-allow consideration of strictly PvE-only players in the Event missions.

[SWGEvictee]

Your errant analogy is just a sad and indirect way to try to force PvP on PvE players. You're just a trouble-maker.

 

Really, you need to stop trolling in this thread ... you have not stated even a single valid rationale for trying to dis-allow consideration of strictly PvE-only players in the Event missions.

 

You are the arrogant one aren't you. You should have realized by now that I will not stop voicing my opinion in this thread just because you tell me to go away.

 

Of course I haven't given a valid rational for disallowing consideration of those who wish to PvE only. That's because they need no consideration beyond the auto flagging issues most here, including myself, agree need fixing. Disneyland is presented as a whole and its patrons may partake of all it has to offer or not according to their desires. Similarly the players of SWTOR may partake fully of the Gree event or not depending on their desires. No extra consideration above and beyond that is needed.

[anonnn]

You are the arrogant one aren't you. You should have realized by now that I will not stop voicing my opinion in this thread just because you tell me to go away.

 

Of course I haven't given a valid rational for disallowing consideration of those who wish to PvE only. That's because they need no consideration beyond the auto flagging issues most here, including myself, agree need fixing. Disneyland is presented as a whole and its patrons may partake of all it has to offer or not according to their desires. Similarly the players of SWTOR may partake fully of the Gree event or not depending on their desires. No extra consideration above and beyond that is needed.

 

The Original Poster's description of his experiences in the Gree Event, as well as my own description of my own experiences in the Gree Event, each by itself directly and fully refutes (without the need for argument or even debate) your claim that no extra consideration is needed for PvE players.

 

I believe I'm done making my case on this issue ... if you (and others) were only considerate (and non-abusive) of PvE players and their unique concerns from the beginning of this thread, more than a dozen pages of re-clarification of the problem with the Gree Event would not have been necessary.

 

_______________________________________________________________________________________

_

The civil rights of PvE players ...

_______________________________________________________________________________________

[SWGEvictee]

The Original Poster's description of his experiences in the Gree Event, as well as my own description of my own experiences in the Gree Event, each by itself directly and fully refutes (without the need for argument or even debate) your claim that no extra consideration is needed for PvE players.

 

I believe I'm done making my case on this issue ... if you (and others) were only considerate (and non-abusive) of PvE players and their unique concerns from the beginning of this thread, more than a dozen pages of re-clarification of the problem with the Gree Event would not have been necessary.

 

_______________________________________________________________________________________

_

The civil rights of PvE players ...

_______________________________________________________________________________________

 

I won't get my hopes up until you don't post again. I will offer this in farewell though, just in case. A desire to not engage in PvP is not a civil right.

[LanceCorporalDan]

I say it's only fair for strictly PvE-only players if they can earn the same daily Event trophies as other players (without having to flag for PvP), and you claim that there's a rule that prohibits PvE-only players from earning the full daily Event reward as other players without flagging for PvP. I think this is the most ridiculous "argument" posted yet in this thread. You should really just stop posting here ...

 

I consider it extremely rude and inconsiderate of my rights as a subscriber for you to attempt to tell me where I can and can't post my thoughts.

 

I find it borderline insane to ask for the benefits and rewards of something without putting in the extra work to earn it.

 

At least try to keep in mind that this is an MMO that attempts to please all player crowds. Therefore the events will most likely have content for all (the large majority of which tends to be PvE In case you haven't noticed)

 

I apologize for your inability to adapt and overcome due to your self entitled views.

Edited March 8, 2013 by LanceCorporalDan

[PetFish]

If you don't concede the point that strictly PvE-only players should be given due consideration,

 

So what you're saying here is that PvE players get 95% of an event all to themselves and that's *not* being given due consideration?

 

How sad. You could choose to be constructive and understanding, maybe even cooperative and supportive of the rights of other players... instead you choose to be fundamentally objectionable and just desperate for an argument to win, when there was no argument to begin with.

 

This is basically every single post you make. You only want the rights of the PvE player to matter. You want the PvE player to have 100% of everything cuz 95% just isn't enough. So who's not taking the rights of other players into consideration?

 

It's strange how you start your post with an abuse and then pretend to be the voice of reason. Take your non-harmonious attitude elsewhere ...

 

Do you even realize that this is all you do?

 

I say it's only fair for strictly PvE-only players if they can earn the same daily Event trophies as other players (without having to flag for PvP).

 

I said this before, but you can either look at this as a punishment for PvE-only players, which you clearly do, or you can look at this as a TINY bonus for players who do both. The event was made for PvE FIRST and they are able to achieve everything. If you happen to do a little PvP as a bonus you can achieve everything A LITTLE BIT faster.

 

Glass half full or half empty. Not only is your glass half empty but you want to drown every PvP player in it. I just don't understand why you can't let people who do PvE and PvP to have a minimal bonus. The PvE component of this event amounts to about 95% but that isn't enough for you, you want it all. Grand Acquisitions event was 100% PvE and Rakghoul plague was 99% (Bantha in Outlaw's Den). So where were the civil rights of the PvP players in those?

 

You are the very definition of selfish. You are clearly not speaking for every PvE-only player yet you cling to that premise. This is all about YOU and the fact that YOU want everything done YOUR way and forget what anyone else wants. YOU are upset cuz they gave one cookie from the cookie jar to someone else and YOU didn't get to hog all of them for YOURSELF.

[anonnn]

I consider it extremely rude and inconsiderate of my rights as a subscriber for you to attempt to tell me where I can and can't post my thoughts.

 

I find it borderline insane to ask for the benefits and rewards of something without putting in the extra work to earn it.

 

At least try to keep in mind that this is an MMO that attempts to please all player crowds. Therefore the events will most likely have content for all (the large majority of which tends to be PvE In case you haven't noticed)

 

I apologize for your inability to adapt and overcome due to your self entitled views.

_

I'm intelligent enough that if I were insane I would be aware of it. __

_

[MGriffith]

So what you're saying here is that PvE players get 95% of an event all to themselves and that's *not* being given due consideration?

 

To be fair, you will find it a lot harder to find a player who does not want to PvE at all in an MMO. Players who do not under any circumstances want to PvP however are not quite so hard to find.

Mixing PvE elements in a mission does not provide quite the 'hardship' that mixing in PvP elements does.

 

However, given that the developers carefully considered adding in the PvP potential of all Gree missions, by placing them on Illum, it is kind of a moot point to complain about that. Illum is their pet open world PvP planet and it has been languishing since release (due to technical as well as design issues). They made improvements to the place and wanted to lure players back to it. Otherwise they could just as easily have the Gree ship land on Belsavis or Hoth, or an anonymous planet that just happened to looke exactly like Illum but without the PvP stuff.

 

This is basically every single post you make. You only want the rights of the PvE player to matter. You want the PvE player to have 100% of everything cuz 95% just isn't enough. So who's not taking the rights of other players into consideration?

 

He wants a PvE exclusive server and is quite adamant in his belief that this is the only way to solve the issues surrounding PvP in SW:TOR

This is however a suggestion, not something inherently wrong with the design of the Gree quest.

On the other hand, there is something wrong with the way players get flagged for PvP. This has been pointed out to the developers within the first month of the game going life. As a result of that some minor and mostly cosmetic changes were made and we can safely say at this point that the developers actually want players to quickly, easily and not necessarily voluntarily, flag for PvP.

 

If we cut through all the hyperbole and drama though, there are no 'civil rights' for any player and they certainly weren't violated. Placing the Gree event on any contested planet meant that PvP was a possibility, placing it on Illum was a signal that it was the desired result. But neither PvE nor PvP nor players who don't give a bleep have a 'right' to have any mission placed on any particular planet. That is entirely the discretion of the developers and players have to learn to live with wherever the mission is located.

 

Me? I won't be doing the Gree event when it comes back either, nor will I try to obtain HK-51 nor do any mission that requires or puts me at a substantial risk to be forced into PvP. That is my personal choice and it means that certain parts of the game are locked off to me. I do not have a 'right' to those parts and Bioware does not have an 'obligation' to make them accessible either.

I sure hope that Bioware will fix the involuntary flagging situation so that I do not have to cramp my gameplay to avoid being subjected to somebody else's idea of entertainment (at my expense), but I have no 'right' to that either. In the end if the game no longer meets my idea of fun I can stop playing. That is the only right I have as a player.

[PetFish]

Flagging

I know cheese-flagging is a problem but not nearly as big as people seem to want to make it out to be. Like I've said, I did the event every day on 8 toons and only twice got cheese-flagged while outside the PvP area. But people like to come here and blow it way out of proportion and freak out like it happens as soon as they step off the lift.

 

Sure, a few people probably had a bad day with this, but the amount of times I actually saw, in chat, "omg they are going around flagging people" was very rare cuz it was usually "omg I was walking alone in the PvP area and got ganged" which has nothing to do with any flagging issue, it's the player going somewhere they knew could be trouble and unprepared and yet somehow it's the other players' fault for them getting owned.

 

I'm willing to bet that even if there were no flagging issues at all that this guy would still be spazzing out about how 95% PvE isn't enough for PvE people and their civil rights are being violated.

 

 

HK-51

I'm sad that you won't get him cuz of PvP. The only PvP component of this is when you walk into Outlaw's Den and spend 30s flying to the vendor, buy the item, then you can QT out. Then that's it, everything else is PvE. When HK-51 first started and there were a lot of people going for him Outlaw's Den actually had some action in it. But now it's back to being dead again. I'm now getting HK-51 on my 4 Imp toons and haven't even once seen anyone else in Outlaw's Den. I even have time to kill the rare vendor.

 

So please don't let this non-existent PvP aspect stop you from getting HK-51. I'll come help you if you want.

 

 

Summary

 

• You NEVER have to do PvP (aka 'forced') in order to do Return of the Gree, if you do choose to PvP you get a minimal reputation-only bonus for putting in the extra effort which is a great design for those of us who like to do both but had no bearing whatsoever on getting Gray Helix Components.
  
• The actual frequency of cheese-flagging is extremely rare and not every time you stick your head out the door like people seem to make it out to be.
  
• The chances of PvP during HK-51 I would put at <1% so please don't let that stop you from enjoying this fun achievement mission at least once. Gimme a call, I'll be your wing man, just don't call me "Goose".
  
• The Return of the Gree was designed perfectly for MOST players, gave a little trouble to a FEW players, and worked out great for even FEWER players like myself.
  

[Pscyon]

As a strictly PvE-focused player, I feel bad when someone who's very loud and very wrong is the only representation my niche gets. So to all those of you out there that enjoys PvP in any degree, please be aware that a lot of us who doesn't are perfectly fine with you getting some missions thrown your way too. We're also aware that participation in said missions is entirely optional and not neccessary to reach our gear and reputation goals. Edited March 9, 2013 by Pscyon

[WaldoA]

I only PvP. Yet I'm practically forced to go through every planet to gain levels at a decent rate. I am then forced to PvE again for credits to augment my gear. I am also forced to either PvE for the credits to buy crew skill matts, or actually PvE to gain them anyway. You get an event that has an OPTIONAL PvP area and you're acting like you're given no consideration? ....

[anonnn]

Everyone is still mis-representing what is being requested for PvE players.

 

How absolutely pathetic.

Edited March 11, 2013 by anonnn

[LadyDrusilla]

Everyone is still mis-representing what is being request for PvE players.

 

How absolutely pathetic.

You mean like you?

 

I don't PvP at all. I tried it and didn't care for it. I have 500 valor on one of my characters and I have 4 50s and one end-game main. I do not like PvP.

 

I am not being forced to PvP. I did not get flagged ONCE during the Gree event. I made a considerable amount of reputation. I participated in the event to a high degree.

[planet_J]

Just a thought...why not offer a strictly PVP and strictly PVE path for the events, so those that only want to PVE could, and those that want only to PVP could, and those that do both, well...they could...

[waylandir]

I only PvP. Yet I'm practically forced to go through every planet to gain levels at a decent rate. I am then forced to PvE again for credits to augment my gear. I am also forced to either PvE for the credits to buy crew skill matts, or actually PvE to gain them anyway. You get an event that has an OPTIONAL PvP area and you're acting like you're given no consideration? ....

 

Seriously, your compaining about not enough pvp on a PVE server!!.. I think you need to be on a PVP server to get the pvp your complaining about is missing...

 

Maybe you should have turned in the direction given for PvP and not taken the road to the PvE server.

[waylandir]

What I would like to know,

Do the PvP server have forced PvE areas as there are forced PvP areas on PvE Servers.

Do the PvP server have Illum as purely PvE world akin to it being a PvP world on a PvE server.

 

If not then Bio Ware stop stuffin up our playing environment with this PvP discrimination against PvE players on a PvE server.

 

I am more than happy for the warzones to be apart of the PvE servers ( i dont ever have to go to them).. I mean where else can those not able to survive on PvP servers get to PvP on a PvE server (oh wait, in warzones).

 

I am against having forced PvP zones on a PvE server, to me it mis represents the term PvE Server and as a subscriber it annoys me no end. Sorry but after 2 years of being ganked in eve the last thing i'm interested in is PK. An sorry but most of the looser PvP'ng outside of warzones are just Pk'rs nothing more. I see it in the chat day after day on illum PvP'rs complaining about being ganked by there own side or getting gang banged. Chat was full of it going on for hours and hours. Going on about not picking on such and such, stop ganging up on 1, why dont you attack the opposing faction like your supposed to and so forth.

 

Then these same PvP complainers turn around and do the same thing to others, but seeing as how there not good enough to take on the PvP gankers, they settle for tricking PvE players to get flagged so they can turn around and gank them.

 

A lot of animosity in chat all related to PvP issue and all uneccessary if bio would realise it's a PvE server so warzones for PvP is all thats needed. Unless of course there going out of there way to aggravate the PvE community that makes up the majority of the players on a PvE server. And illum gree event PvP area quest was a failure.. i was in there twice on different days and there was no PvP occuring, just a bunch of flagged players doing the quests, waiting in line waving to each other.

 

Also if PvP was so popular why do people keep saying they've been waiting for hours to get into a warzone because no ones playing them.

 

On top of that, I see here idiots who miss the point it's a PvE server and make comments thinking its a PvP one. Dead to rights guys, if your so critical of the PvE'rs then suck it up and go to a PvP server where you belong, dont come into our house (PvE server) and winge about the PvE content or the fact that the PvE players arent interested in open world PvP. Reaility is, that bio-ware incorporated it because those players not able to survive in a full PvP world needed somewhere safer for them to play so the PvE players got stuck with em.

 

In the end though I agree with the original post, if it was immpossible to be flagged accidently then it wouldnt be so bad. I mean other mmo's are able to do it so why cant swtor (or is it a skills issue with the programmers).

[LanceCorporalDan]

_

I'm intelligent enough that if I were insane I would be aware of it. __

_

 

Personal opinion is exactly that.

[MGriffith]

Everyone is still mis-representing what is being request for PvE players.

 

Not misrepresenting, disagreeing with the necessitiy. That is not pathetic but part of being in a discussion.

 

If the issue is the involuntary PvP then several solutions, including yours of a PvE exclusive server, have been presented, as well as people pointing out that to them the problem does not seem to be so huge.

 

if the issue is that there is (part of ) an event taking place on a planet marked specifically as being 'for PvP' then yes, that is what the developers decided to do with their latest event. There really is no point in complaining about that.

 

If the issue is that PvE players have a right to events being fully available without PvP then I can not say i agree with that. I would not mind such events, but I can not insist that the developers give me that.

[LanceCorporalDan]

Just a thought...why not offer a strictly PVP and strictly PVE path for the events, so those that only want to PVE could, and those that want only to PVP could, and those that do both, well...they could...

 

I already suggested that but somebody already disagreed with that.

 

But that doesn't mean it's not a valid point! If you want strict pve routes fine, then compensate in turn with strict pvp routes to the rewards along with keeping the mixed route we had.

[anonnn]

So what you're saying here is that PvE players get 95% of an event all to themselves and that's *not* being given due consideration?

 

This is basically every single post you make. You only want the rights of the PvE player to matter. You want the PvE player to have 100% of everything cuz 95% just isn't enough. So who's not taking the rights of other players into consideration?

...

I said this before, but you can either look at this as a punishment for PvE-only players, which you clearly do, or you can look at this as a TINY bonus for players who do both. The event was made for PvE FIRST and they are able to achieve everything. If you happen to do a little PvP as a bonus you can achieve everything A LITTLE BIT faster.

 

Glass half full or half empty. Not only is your glass half empty but you want to drown every PvP player in it. I just don't understand why you can't let people who do PvE and PvP to have a minimal bonus. The PvE component of this event amounts to about 95% but that isn't enough for you, you want it all. Grand Acquisitions event was 100% PvE and Rakghoul plague was 99% (Bantha in Outlaw's Den). So where were the civil rights of the PvP players in those?

 

You are the very definition of selfish. You are clearly not speaking for every PvE-only player yet you cling to that premise. This is all about YOU and the fact that YOU want everything done YOUR way and forget what anyone else wants. YOU are upset cuz they gave one cookie from the cookie jar to someone else and YOU didn't get to hog all of them for YOURSELF.

 

Why does the garbage just keep spewing forth? You're only trying to argue incessantly, and ending up with ALL invalid arguments, interspersed with ridiculous amounts of disrespect of ALL PvE-only players. Not only that, but spewing insane personal insult and just outright poison, you are the very definition of the player that does not belong.

 

This is what the Gree Event is like:

(1) strictly PvE-only players finish their daily Gree Event missions that are PvE.

(2) PvE players realize that there are still 2 missions left on the Event terminal.

(3) PvE players debate whether to go against their usual sensibilities to not flag for PvP, in order to get the maximal daily Trophies for the Event, and have the best chance at unlocking and affording the Event's purchasables.

(4) no matter which path the PvE chooses (flagging or not flagging), the PvE player almost always ends up dissatisfied and unhappy with the result.

 

If you pretend the Gree Event isn't broken for PvE-only players, I think you should be put in a stockade in the city square.

 

How can it be a problem or even slightly objectionable to add an alternate mission area (outside the forced-flagging zone) to the Gree Event's [PVP] missions, so that PvE players:

• (1) aren't baited into flagging for PvP to finsih the daily missions
  
• (2) have the same Event-related earning potential as the players who DO flag for PvP
  

 

It's so exceedingly immature to pretend that this is not a reasonable request, I am amazed at the lengths some people will go to, to keep things unreasonable for people they have chosen to despise. And what really amazes me is, all of the negativity and hatred and lack-of-consideration and insane disrespect is completely un-provoked. It's correct at this point to suspect any outspoken opponents to this thread of being the same people who flag for PvP and troll incessantly (and viciously) in the Event missions and try to make other people's game-time a miserable experience. It's the same motive, either way ...

[anonnn]

As a strictly PvE-focused player, I feel bad when someone who's very loud and very wrong is the only representation my niche gets. So to all those of you out there that enjoys PvP in any degree, please be aware that a lot of us who doesn't are perfectly fine with you getting some missions thrown your way too. We're also aware that participation in said missions is entirely optional and not neccessary to reach our gear and reputation goals.

 

What a painful confusion you are experiencing. You gobbled down the B.S. a bunch of loud-mouthed aggro-bots have been spewing into this thread. The only thing requested was a minor addition to the 2 [PVP] missions in the Gree Event, so that PvE-only players aren't baited into flagging for PvP as they attempt to maximize their daily Event efforts. You literally couldn't be more wrong about what you perceive I've stated in this thread. Shame on you.

[anonnn]

Not misrepresenting, disagreeing with the necessitiy. That is not pathetic but part of being in a discussion.

 

If the issue is the involuntary PvP then several solutions, including yours of a PvE exclusive server, have been presented, as well as people pointing out that to them the problem does not seem to be so huge.

 

if the issue is that there is (part of ) an event taking place on a planet marked specifically as being 'for PvP' then yes, that is what the developers decided to do with their latest event. There really is no point in complaining about that.

 

If the issue is that PvE players have a right to events being fully available without PvP then I can not say i agree with that. I would not mind such events, but I can not insist that the developers give me that.

 

It's called a Strawman Argument. Opponents to this thread (not sure how they even find the motivation to be so ridiculous) have repeatedly contrived an idea to argue against, and pretended it's a rebuttal of the factual debate point that was stated by the people they're harrassing. Usually Strawman Arguments are limited to politics, since that's the more common place to find people who are corrupt, dishonorable, cowardly, unethical, back-stabbing, inept, clumsy, illogical, incompetent, weak-minded, ...

 

Discussing PvP features, or lack thereof, is a non-argument. That belongs in another thread, and has nothing to do with whether a fix of Event features is needed for PvE-only players. Someone want to discuss PvP features? Go start a new thread for it.