Stop forcing PVP on PVE servers

[anonnn]

That's strange I thought level 45 was the minimum level to participate in the Gree Event missions ...

[LanceCorporalDan]

That's just it.

 

You cannot suggest a pve only player to be able to reap the same rewards of a player who enjoys all aspects that the game offers. It is simply unfair to those who casually play the game.

 

A pve only player must accept this as THEY REFUSE to participate in all aspects the game offers, thus voiding all rewards that those aspects have to offer.

 

I don't see how it can be broken down any more for you.

 

Perhaps another poster would be kind enough to simplify it more if need be.

Edited March 8, 2013 by LanceCorporalDan

[Thornsbane]

What the OP and the few others stalwartly defending his position need to realise is that despite

1. Bioware tittled the quests as [PVP],

2. are in a PVP area on a PVP planet,

3. and have PVP warzone comms rewards,

4. clearly encourage player vs player combat to get it done,

 

you are claiming its a PVE quest simply because you WANT it to be one. Despite what you want, it is a PVP quest. Simply leave it and do some PVE content and dont spoil it for everyone else.

 

Its simply does not matter if it has some small PVE part to it or not, it is a PVP quest for those who want to go into the area and maybe do some PVP to get it done.

 

I doubt you will realise as you seem stubbornly set on your (misguided) course, but you are being pedantic and resorting to semantics to try and change a fact you simply dont want to accept.

 

Its a PVP quest.

[anonnn]

That's just it.

 

You cannot suggest a pve only player to be able to reap the same rewards of a player who enjoys all aspects that the game offers. It is simply unfair to those who casually play the game.

 

A pve only player must accept this as THEY REFUSE to participate in all aspects the game offers, thus voiding all rewards that those aspects have to offer.

 

I don't see how it can be broken down any more for you.

 

Perhaps another poster would be kind enough to simplify it more if need be.

 

You pulled that rule out of thin air, it's borderline maniacal and is the point of blatant disregard for other players. Events are special happenings that have special rewards and are supposed to be enjoyable by all players. If the enjoyability of the Events for strictly PvE-only players means that the Events need to be tweaked slightly, then that's what BioWare needs to consider.

 

Compare it to Disneyland. You wouldn't dare suggest that to comply with safety regulations, people who have longer hair than 4" were required to get a haircut in order to get on the rides.

[anonnn]

What the OP and the few others stalwartly defending his position need to realise is that despite

1. Bioware tittled the quests as [PVP],

2. are in a PVP area on a PVP planet,

3. and have PVP warzone comms rewards,

4. clearly encourage player vs player combat to get it done,

 

you are claiming its a PVE quest simply because you WANT it to be one. Despite what you want, it is a PVP quest. Simply leave it and do some PVE content and dont spoil it for everyone else.

 

Its simply does not matter if it has some small PVE part to it or not, it is a PVP quest for those who want to go into the area and maybe do some PVP to get it done.

 

I doubt you will realise as you seem stubbornly set on your (misguided) course, but you are being pedantic and resorting to semantics to try and change a fact you simply dont want to accept.

 

Its a PVP quest.

 

How are you this inane? The suggestion is to change the Event's PvP missions very slightly, and in a way that only players who choose to complete the mission in the new location outside of the forced-flagging zone would notice. Trying to qualify as immutable the thing that is suggesting being changed isn't even a debate point ...

[MGriffith]

PvP-only missions in a special Event draws strictly PvE-only players into PvP missions against their better judgement

 

I think we can safely say that adding those missions in the PvP part of the planet was done exactly for this reason. Well, not the better judgement part, but to get them to enter the PvP area and see if they liked PvP gameplay.

 

From the looks of it the developers of this game, like those of all games release the past several and coming years, consider PvP to be -the- endgame. And from that viewpoint the Gree event was designed to get more people involved in visiting Illum and its open world PvP arena. The location of the event and its specific missions was by no stretch of imagination an accident or oversight. (It seems to me that it was a test of the revamped planet and some of their ideas for PvP on it).

 

We can argue if it is a good design decision until we are blue in the face, but it does not change the fact that Bioware wanted PvE players to be tempted to visit the PvP areas. Which they did in large numbers, and not always to their idea of fun times.

[KeeferE]

And now young PvEr It is time to Die...

[SWGEvictee]

PvP-only missions in a special Event draws strictly PvE-only players into PvP missions against their better judgement.

 

Your premise is deliberately flawed. You are dishonest. Your request should be ignored

[anonnn]

I think we can safely say that adding those missions in the PvP part of the planet was done exactly for this reason. Well, not the better judgement part, but to get them to enter the PvP area and see if they liked PvP gameplay.

 

From the looks of it the developers of this game, like those of all games release the past several and coming years, consider PvP to be -the- endgame. And from that viewpoint the Gree event was designed to get more people involved in visiting Illum and its open world PvP arena. The location of the event and its specific missions was by no stretch of imagination an accident or oversight. (It seems to me that it was a test of the revamped planet and some of their ideas for PvP on it).

 

We can argue if it is a good design decision until we are blue in the face, but it does not change the fact that Bioware wanted PvE players to be tempted to visit the PvP areas. Which they did in large numbers, and not always to their idea of fun times.

 

Somehow I doubt BioWare's consideration was from that perspective, nonetheless no matter what their design intent was, now is when they can refine it to be the type of Event it ought to be. Which to me means, change the Event's [PVP] missions to be [PVP/PVE] missions so that in future Gree Event replays the strictly PvE-only players aren't required to flag for PvP in order to do all 7 daily missions. I can tell you from my own Trophy earnings (which I just completed today actually), that for some players the extra 2 missions would make the difference between making it to Champion reputation or not. And I think it's quite sad, and indicative of a very severe social disease, that there are so many players who don't give automatic consideration that there are players who want to remain strictly PvE-only throughout all of SWToR. People obviously use the phrase "player community" only to promote a platform to demand things exclusively for themselves. Maybe do a little international traveling, achieve the realization that most of the world is nothing like yourself...

 

For the game to be highest quality, it can't be designed as a kind of Cattle chute... it has to be tuned not for only 1 type of player, but rather for all of the several different kinds of player styles:

• PvP-only players (there are PvP servers)
  
• strictly PvE-only players (there is PvP-flagging though it needs fixing)
  
• PvP / PvE players (probably the main player-base)
  
• crafting-only players (i think there are probably a few people in this category)
  
• strictly role-play players
  

 

If you don't concede the point that strictly PvE-only players should be given due consideration, what will be the support for PvP features when those are something lacking in new content some day? If the next 5 major releases go by, and none of them have PvP features in them, do you think I'd complain? After the amount of belligerence, vehemence, abuse, and stark subjectivity poured so carelessly into this thread by those opposed to it, why would I (ever) offer any support to any threads requesting PvP features in SWToR? The nature of this request is not for some big new PvE feature, it's for a change to the game that will prevent PvP features from being as intrusive as they are into the game-time of players who want nothing to do with PvP activity. It's very easy to see through the tactics of people being overly opinionated, boorish, and demanding, just so they can get things their own way more often.

 

Pretending that SWToR can be all about PvP is ridiculous... there really should be PvE servers that live up to the name and have all PvP features removed. I wonder what SWToR would be like, if it were PvP-only... would anyone even have subscribed to the game? At least a few. But likely not enough to merit more than one server. Now how about a PvE-only SWToR...? How many subscribers would there be? Maybe more than there are now...! And I wouldn't pretend the Gree Event was intended to be a PvP event... a very large number of people have commented how the only thing was the 2 [PVP] missions, and even those didn't necessitate any actual PvP via the mission objectives. If I were you I'd go start a "give us a true PvP-related Event" suggestion thread.

[anonnn]

And now young PvEr It is time to Die...

 

The only way for weakness (and incompetence) to be mistaken as more capable than it is, and to achieve submission to itself despite being inferior, is to be brazenly outspoken in its opinion and in its intent.

[anonnn]

Your premise is deliberately flawed. You are dishonest. Your request should be ignored

 

Finally you have exhausted your argument.

 

There is no premise, since this is neither an argument nor a debate, it's only a clarification of the obvious and a rebuttal of your submission of an argument where none exists. There is no obligation to prove that changes to the Gree Event are needed, only a clarification of why some players have found some of it to be the opposite of enjoyable.

 

Saying I'm being dishonest is just your mouth flapping wildly and out of control. It's a subjective topic (since it revolves around whether PvE-only players enjoy the Gree Event or not) and thus your theme of dishonesty is not applicable.

 

You see, this thread has literally nothing to do with you, since you are not a strictly PvE-only player ...

 

You are right about only one thing... at this point my request should be ignored....

 

by everyone except for BioWare.

[SWGEvictee]

You see, this thread has literally nothing to do with you, since you are not a strictly PvE-only player

 

Who are you to try and tell me what type of player I am or what type of player I am not. Stick to the actual facts you can prove.

[oaceen]

i don't see why it's that big of a deal. i did the PVP quests once and never did them again.

 

after the first day, i just did all of the PVE-related quests that i felt like doing and eventually that trickled down to only doing the daily heroic mission for the gray helix components. i capped on the rep for both weeks in only a few days.

 

 

i can understand the frustration to a degree, but there is a limited amount of rep that can be obtained per week, and a limited amount of rep that can be obtained overall before maxing out rep with the gree, and there is plenty of time to participate in all of this and maximize rep without doing any of the PVP-related quests at all.

 

it's not really being forced on anyone. you really don't have to do it if you don't want to, and you can still participate in the gree event fully and maximize rep in the alloted time.

[anonnn]

Who are you to try and tell me what type of player I am or what type of player I am not. Stick to the actual facts you can prove.

 

How sad. You could choose to be constructive and understanding, maybe even cooperative and supportive of the rights of other players... instead you choose to be fundamentally objectionable and just desperate for an argument to win, when there was no argument to begin with.

 

Let me just remind you what your first post was in this thread, so you'll be sure to understand that your attitude is not to be tolerated here:

Ok OP. So you say your quitin because you can't complete a PvP quest without other players engaging you in PvP. Well if you must. Have a good life, I doubt you'll be missed terribly.

I doubt you'd give an honest appraisal of what level of detriment you have on the Forums, and I'm sure on the gaming environment as well.

________________________________________________________

 

The civil rights of PvE players ...

[SWGEvictee]

How sad. You could choose to be constructive and understanding, maybe even cooperative and supportive of the rights of other players... instead you choose to be fundamentally objectionable and just desperate for an argument to win, when there was no argument to begin with.

 

Let me just remind you what your first post was in this thread, so you'll be sure to understand that your attitude is not to be tolerated here:

 

I doubt you'd give an honest appraisal of what level of detriment you have on the Forums, and I'm sure on the gaming environment as well.

________________________________________________________

 

The civil rights of PvE players ...

 

 

 

You accusing others of dishonesty. Now that's funny.

[anonnn]

i don't see why it's that big of a deal. i did the PVP quests once and never did them again.

 

after the first day, i just did all of the PVE-related quests that i felt like doing and eventually that trickled down to only doing the daily heroic mission for the gray helix components. i capped on the rep for both weeks in only a few days.

 

 

i can understand the frustration to a degree, but there is a limited amount of rep that can be obtained per week, and a limited amount of rep that can be obtained overall before maxing out rep with the gree, and there is plenty of time to participate in all of this and maximize rep without doing any of the PVP-related quests at all.

 

it's not really being forced on anyone. you really don't have to do it if you don't want to, and you can still participate in the gree event fully and maximize rep in the alloted time.

 

I'm not able to do any actual math of how many Event sessions are required to reach Champion status within the 2 weeks allowed, since I've already participated in the event this time around. Players new to the event next time around though will run into the same problems that PvE players this time around did.

 

By my estimation, it requires 2 level 50 characters running the full event missions every single day of the event without fail, to earn enough Trophies to reach Champion. Even then it might fall slightly short unless the player also luckily finds a group that goes to a bunch of the Gree WB or Xenoanalyst II missions. There is no point in being more specific about this, unless someone has done exactly that with only 2 level 50 characters. It could be considered reasonable to expect 1 level 50 character to be able to reach Champion if they run all PvE Event missions every day of the event, as well as a few times to the WB's and Xenoanalyst II. Otherwise, what's the point of having the event if single-character diligent every-day missions does not get one to Champion level? Those players would end up absolutely hating the event, they would find it to be a complete let-down.

 

If the 2 [PVP] missions were slightly changed to be [PVP/PVE] missions by making no change other than 1 auxiliary mission area outside the forced-flagging area, a large number of players with only 1 or 2 characters at level 50 who choose not to PvP will suddenly become capable of becoming Champion in those 2 weeks and being able to purchase a Gree reward weapon, rather than losing out and being completely dissatisfied with the game. Don't mistake me for a fool; I'm not pleading for your support, I'm TELLING YOU, strictly PvE-only players are due consideration for this reason in all current and future Events.

 

Objecting to this suggestion of change to the Gree Event is becoming absurdly ritual. Insisting that it not be allowed to be changed is nothing more than a ridiculous inconsideration of others.

[anonnn]

You accusing others of dishonesty. Now that's funny.

 

Calm down.

[wainot-keel]

The fact that there is no valid need for the change you are requesting is all the valid basis needed to object.

 

The way flagging works, how the event was designed ,the whole thing reeked of PvP, regardless of how the quests were named or placed on the map. I have 2 healers so I know.

I got ganked more times on the "PvE" area than in the PvP one (yes, I went there too, to help guildies, to get wz comms for a relic, for a much easier heroic.) I didn't mind getting ganked, I just switched instance, toon, tried later, whatever, but the truth is, aside from the Xeno boss fight, everything was colored by PvP.

 

PvP was present all the time, either by you being flagged and exposed to ganking and griefing or by you working hard and wasting time to avoid it.

In the end, the event for pve'ers was something do deal with whereas for pvpers was something to enjoy. I hope its next iteration won't be like this.

[oaceen]

I'm not pleading for your support, I'm TELLING YOU, strictly PvE-only players are due consideration for this reason in all current and future Events.

 

i am a pve-only player on a pve server. typing in capslock or adding a billion color tags isn't going to make your point any clearer to me. i understand. completely. i just disagree (and not even completely).

 

 

honestly, i just saw that the both of you have been carrying this on for a very long time. i suggest you both calm down since this is just a game after all, and all of the bickering is literally going to amount to nothing but getting angry over something when you could both just add each other to ignore and get on with your lives.

[SWGEvictee]

The way flagging works, how the event was designed ,the whole thing reeked of PvP, regardless of how the quests were named or placed on the map. I have 2 healers so I know.

I got ganked more times on the "PvE" area than in the PvP one (yes, I went there too, to help guildies, to get wz comms for a relic, for a much easier heroic.) I didn't mind getting ganked, I just switched instance, toon, tried later, whatever, but the truth is, aside from the Xeno boss fight, everything was colored by PvP.

 

PvP was present all the time, either by you being flagged and exposed to ganking and griefing or by you working hard and wasting time to avoid it.

In the end, the event for pve'ers was something do deal with whereas for pvpers was something to enjoy. I hope its next iteration won't be like this.

 

I have never said the auto flagging system isn't broken and doesn't need fixing. It does. It needs to be shut off completely so that no action of any kind by either PvE status or PvP status players may affect the other. The only way anyone should be able to go PvP active is by a conscious choice to deliberately take the action to activate the PvP toggle.

 

However thus isn't the main change that is being called for in this thread. The calls to adjust some of the missions offered in the event are unneeded and it is those changes that I am against.

[anonnn]

The way flagging works, how the event was designed ,the whole thing reeked of PvP, regardless of how the quests were named or placed on the map. I have 2 healers so I know.

I got ganked more times on the "PvE" area than in the PvP one (yes, I went there too, to help guildies, to get wz comms for a relic, for a much easier heroic.) I didn't mind getting ganked, I just switched instance, toon, tried later, whatever, but the truth is, aside from the Xeno boss fight, everything was colored by PvP.

 

PvP was present all the time, either by you being flagged and exposed to ganking and griefing or by you working hard and wasting time to avoid it.

In the end, the event for pve'ers was something do deal with whereas for pvpers was something to enjoy. I hope its next iteration won't be like this.

 

I must not have been in as crowded of areas and just by chance not as many PvP'ers. I got accidentally flagged maybe only 3 times out of possibly 14 days of running the missions, I don't even remember. I don't think I ever got defeated, I just scuttled and headed to the base to de-flag. The 5-minute wait was annoying but I was still grateful to be without the PvP flag that was forced on me.

 

I found it fascinating that the entire area was a strange pseudo-PvP-area that refused to let you use PvE Relics you had equipped... and yet if you are careful the entire time, you can do all the missions without getting accidentally flagged even once, and thus the entire set of missions is a PvE experience (with the exception of course of the [PVP] missions). Of course "careful enough" means never using AOE attacks or AOE heals, so it's a little ridiculous ...

[SWGEvictee]

calm down.

 

rofl.

[anonnn]

i am a pve-only player on a pve server. typing in capslock or adding a billion color tags isn't going to make your point any clearer to me. i understand. completely. i just disagree (and not even completely).

...

 

It's strange how you start your post with an abuse and then pretend to be the voice of reason. Take your non-harmonious attitude elsewhere ...

 

Highlighting main points makes the post far easier to read, rather than it being a dull block of monotonous Wheat-colored text. Your opinion on the matter is not pertinent.

[LanceCorporalDan]

You pulled that rule out of thin air, it's borderline maniacal and is the point of blatant disregard for other players. Events are special happenings that have special rewards and are supposed to be enjoyable by all players. If the enjoyability of the Events for strictly PvE-only players means that the Events need to be tweaked slightly, then that's what BioWare needs to consider.

 

Compare it to Disneyland. You wouldn't dare suggest that to comply with safety regulations, people who have longer hair than 4" were required to get a haircut in order to get on the rides.

 

No it's not out of thin air. It is simply applying that same "consideration" to ALL players not just that player group you claim to represent.

[SWGEvictee]

Compare it to Disneyland. You wouldn't dare suggest that to comply with safety regulations, people who have longer hair than 4" were required to get a haircut in order to get on the rides.

 

This is not an accurate example of what you are requesting though.

 

A better comparison would be a person who wants to ride the bumper cars at Disneyland but does not enjoy it when other people bump into them during the ride. So instead of being content with the rest if the park they insist Disneyland make a separate ride where no one else is there to bump into them.