SW:ToR Lacks Direction?

[spectreclees]

I actually started playing ME3 multiplayer again recently. (I haven't played since the game came out much.) I notice a lot of improvements and interesting features added to it that make it a lot more fun. I'm not sure why Bioware as a whole doesn't devote some of the people working on the Mass Effect series to work on it's MMO. These guys are talented and innovative. It feels like the SWTOR team just lacks motivation or something.

[Tando-Fett]

SWTOR is brilliant, the production value is outstanding - so much work put into the dialogues, the stories, the environments.

 

The PVE part is excellent, though what I think the game lacks in terms of direction, is more PVP rewards for world PVP, some sort of competitive system to encourage "hostile, kinetic interaction" between players in order to keep them occupied in the end-game. ^^ Not sure if the 1.7 Gree Event update for Ilum is just that, but we'll see.

Edited February 9, 2013 by Tando-Fett

[annabethchase]

It would appear that Makeb precedes the events in the operation(as the operation references the recent failure of the Hutts in another bid for power).

 

I'd assume the opposite.

[annabethchase]

Too many posts in this thread are saying I can't follow a simple storylines, so Bioware and Star Wars has failed.

 

The current situation at end game storyline are as follows: The gree are in trouble and need help. The Empire is preparing for counterattack on the Republic. There is going to be showdown with the Dread Masters. There is going to be a showdown with the Hutt Cartel.

 

Is this lack of direction or lack of ability to understand a simple story?

 

I hold a Bachelor's in Literature, so my adive is put down the star wars and read a book. I recommend the story of Chicken Little. Its a story about a chicken who misinterpts a simple situation and believes the sky is falling.

 

My next post will cover irony in storytelling.

 

Why should the story in an MMO be simple? They want us hooked for years, so of course there are multiple branching threats out there. For an example of this kind of storytelling, read George R R Martin's "Song of Ice & Fire" series. There are constantly switching threats and 5 books into a 7 book series, it's still not clear who the absolute biggest threat is.

[Ixion]

Why should the story in an MMO be simple? They want us hooked for years, so of course there are multiple branching threats out there. For an example of this kind of storytelling, read George R R Martin's "Song of Ice & Fire" series. There are constantly switching threats and 5 books into a 7 book series, it's still not clear who the absolute biggest threat is.

 

Funny you mention Martin in a thread talking about lack of direction. He was so busy being edgy and cool in books 1 through 4 that he forgot to focus on the story he was trying to tell us. I think Dance took so long because he had written himself into a corner and couldn't find a good way out. From interviews and blog posts of his its pretty clear HE doesn't even know the answers to the questions you pose, or at least not nearly as well as he should being so far in the series. It really is a great example of the same problem that swtor has.

[Arkerus]

The direction of the game has been planned from before launch. I don't think many of you even know what you're talking about and are just trying to throw out buzz words to sound smart.

 

They have changed the order we got some things and even threw a couple surprises but rest assured, the general direction is still there. Most MMos are planned up to a couple years in advance.

[RikHar]

Its been like this since a lot of the original devs left. As talented as the newer members may be, keeping the same enthusiasm for something you are not nearly as invested in as the original devs were is near impossible.

 

Maybe it is just me, but I feel like a lot of EA employees get churned through and spit-out, and that's why their games are so inconsistent.

 

 

 

BioWare's new baby, (Cartel Market) is where all their attention is currently stored.

Edited February 9, 2013 by RikHar

[wifeaggro]

The direction of the game has been planned from before launch. I don't think many of you even know what you're talking about and are just trying to throw out buzz words to sound smart.

 

They have changed the order we got some things and even threw a couple surprises but rest assured, the general direction is still there. Most MMos are planned up to a couple years in advance.

 

This i do not doubt. but a year into the game the direction and content quanity of patches is severly underwhelming when you compare it to games like Rift that just pump quality content out and have a very open door policy about what they are doing with upcoming patches. That said TOR is a fun game but BW was very slow in adding to game and now the game being under EA control i am sure it will become even less consitent and very generic. i doubt we will ever see a qrtr of the features BW promised as the soon catagory like Guild ships, Dual specs , customisation on ships and such. I d put a years sub on this game we will likely never see those features in this game if they do it will be years and years out. TOR was a very stripped down game in the MMO feature set pre launch their were some very vocal community members that were warning BW about the lack of actuall MMO features in game in closed beta. Its a fun game but at the last anaylsis its a Co op single player with bolt on MMO features. i dont expect much of anything from this game in the coming years, its a decent default game to fall back on as it requires no commitment to it our its community .

[QuevvenXiltyn]

Funny you mention Martin in a thread talking about lack of direction. He was so busy being edgy and cool in books 1 through 4 that he forgot to focus on the story he was trying to tell us. I think Dance took so long because he had written himself into a corner and couldn't find a good way out. From interviews and blog posts of his its pretty clear HE doesn't even know the answers to the questions you pose, or at least not nearly as well as he should being so far in the series. It really is a great example of the same problem that swtor has.

 

As an aspiring writer, I can, at the least, understand such a thing. Sometimes you have to let the characters you are writing direct the way the story goes. I may know the main characters. I do know the story will end with the heroes winning, and the bad guys likely dead. I may not know who the real bad guys are yet. Especially if it's to be a series, because if it needs to continue on, there better be a bigger bad guy than initially envisioned.

 

Also, there is an old adage that while a writer may be God to his characters, his characters tend to be hard-core atheists...

[Vandicus]

I'd assume the opposite.

 

The operation I am referring to is Scum and Villainy. Assuming this isn't a result of miscommunication, what leads you to believe that the events of Makeb take place after this operation?

[annabethchase]

The operation I am referring to is Scum and Villainy. Assuming this isn't a result of miscommunication, what leads you to believe that the events of Makeb take place after this operation?

 

I thought you meant KP. I obviously can't speak to a story of an op that may or may not exist.

[wifeaggro]

BioWare's new baby, (Cartel Market) is where all their attention is currently stored.

 

this is true there has been more itmes added to that market then bugs fixed in last year, now they are gonna deploy a content patch with out it being on PTS. For all the failings of rift generic game play and clone wow and EQ 2 game play the dev team over there is solid gold, not one MMO devolper can claim the content rift has added for free let alone a massive expansion that Dwarfs most games intial release.

I seriously fear for the MMO genre corperate americas saw WOW's success and now every MMO has become a new fast food franchinse its absloutely discouraging same damn menu with different names and no nutritional value. tastes good the first time but you cant digest it in the long run. Truth is if if TOR would have spent less money on Advertising and voice overs we would actually be playing a full fledged MMO instead of a single player CO op with bolt on MMO features

[Darka]

I think its safe to say they lost their original direction, and can look as far back pre launch and start to see the panic and shift in the game. While they may have a direction now, what isnt helping them is the policy of not interacting with us. Its been called out since the launch of the forums, and they stood by it time and time again,

But for me i see 2013 as a critical years, a year where they need to move forward and bring the community with them

 

The mass exodus via quitting and beinf fired last year did not leave a confident feel in peoples mouths, let alone give a great impression to new players. Especially with all the talk about no one leaving pre launch, they gave up early and with out a fight.

[AshenK]

TORtanic never had direction in the first place.

 

What the people wanted was an MMO, we wanted a game like SWG one that would let us live the life of someone in the Star Wars Universe. We wanted to make our 'own' characters and make our 'own' stories with those characters. Not being force fed a boring storyline that belongs in a book or single player game. We wanted BioWare to come in and look at everything that made SWG so great and take all of that and put it into TOR.

 

We didn't get that, what we got is a watered down boring single player MMO with none of the ideas that SWG had. Or really any of the great ideas that other MMO's have had over the years. We have an over priced cash shop that just sells recolored armors and the loot boxes. Space battles? We have a copy of Starfox, nothing like SWG that let you go out and explore space or the worlds you set foot on.

 

And there are so many other MMO's doing so much better. The Secret World for one is growing every month as tons of new players come in and see what an MMO should be. The Dev's there talk to the Players and treat us like people asking for what we want in the game. Here? The Dev's barely talk at all they just pop in to tell us no to whatever ideas we have, and how we will love everything they are doing. Well along with the normal lines about how well this pile is doing and how proud they are to work on it.

[wifeaggro]

TORtanic never had direction in the first place.

 

What the people wanted was an MMO, we wanted a game like SWG one that would let us live the life of someone in the Star Wars Universe. We wanted to make our 'own' characters and make our 'own' stories with those characters. Not being force fed a boring storyline that belongs in a book or single player game. We wanted BioWare to come in and look at everything that made SWG so great and take all of that and put it into TOR.

 

We didn't get that, what we got is a watered down boring single player MMO with none of the ideas that SWG had. Or really any of the great ideas that other MMO's have had over the years. We have an over priced cash shop that just sells recolored armors and the loot boxes. Space battles? We have a copy of Starfox, nothing like SWG that let you go out and explore space or the worlds you set foot on.

 

And there are so many other MMO's doing so much better. The Secret World for one is growing every month as tons of new players come in and see what an MMO should be. The Dev's there talk to the Players and treat us like people asking for what we want in the game. Here? The Dev's barely talk at all they just pop in to tell us no to whatever ideas we have, and how we will love everything they are doing. Well along with the normal lines about how well this pile is doing and how proud they are to work on it.

 

Unfortunately there is a lot of truth in what you say. From pre launch and opening of the forums in 2008 many community members posted with there concern in the linearity of completely driven by story world design. and the lack of any actuall MMO feature set being talked about , all we heard is were not stupid of course we know how to make a MMO.

The only company thats even remotely talking bout Sandbox features and hybrinding the theme park content is EQ next , sony seems to be the only company willing to put millions and millions into a game with sand box features which is odd as that was what really made MMO's so popular. The facts are anyone who had talent from the BW left a long time ago same with the war hammer franchise.

The largest of the talent pool right now is at Trion and Zenimax studios , though in all honesty TOR is thriving even with its lack of content and path of cookie cutter item drops into the cartel market. If EA were smart they would of held onto those people and threw another 50 60 mil at this game to expand it and put some cool features in it to keep even the unsubbers interested in coming back. I suspect though they just now broke even on thier initial investment of 300 mil. I dont know why they would spend 500 million on bioware and then fire everyone . EA has the reverse effect of midas touch lol, they esstinaly have some of the coolest IP's to date and no ability to do anything with them. Im suprised they have not tried to by Lord of the rings and D&D.

[Trenter]

What the people wanted was an MMO, we wanted a game like SWG /snip

 

"We" never wanted that at all. A few of you did.

[thomasbaxter]

Well to me I've played through class stories and thought I wouldn't enjoy the endgame content but I was surprised to find the ops are loads of fun. To keep me playing, however, we need a lot more of them and ones with up to 16+ peeps. Yeah there's a lot of co-ordination and teamwork required but that's what makes them so exciting. I love the eternity vault op and am gutted I can rarely get to play it. Needs more mini games or endgame 'fun' content though besides warzones which I have never had an interest in.

[CosmicKat]

Funny you mention Martin in a thread talking about lack of direction. He was so busy being edgy and cool in books 1 through 4 that he forgot to focus on the story he was trying to tell us. I think Dance took so long because he had written himself into a corner and couldn't find a good way out. From interviews and blog posts of his its pretty clear HE doesn't even know the answers to the questions you pose, or at least not nearly as well as he should being so far in the series. It really is a great example of the same problem that swtor has.

 

An MMO having a story is a good thing.

 

An MMO having a story where every character is central to that story is a terrible idea. The result is not one cohesive story that ties the universe together but thousands of (identical) stories with identical characters in thousands of alternate universes. This one big selling feature of TOR, the story, is one of the main reasons why the game failed so badly. For those who follow the story and use it as their personal story, they have no choice but to ignore every other player's story. This is not the recipe for a cohesive community or universe and without those, any MMO is doomed.

 

To many chiefs, not enough braves.

[jgelling]

Its been like this since a lot of the original devs left. As talented as the newer members may be, keeping the same enthusiasm for something you are not nearly as invested in as the original devs were is near impossible.

 

Maybe it is just me, but I feel like a lot of EA employees get churned through and spit-out, and that's why their games are so inconsistent.

Um, who can have possibly done any worse than the original devs? They went horrendously over budget, yet still released a hurried, incomplete product, then showed such total ineptitude at fixing bugs and releasing new content that they were forced to hand out free game time, before losing 90% of their subs and going free to play.

 

The new devs are at least releasing stuff, and probably on a tiny fraction of the budget.

[wifeaggro]

Um, who can have possibly done any worse than the original devs? They went horrendously over budget, yet still released a hurried, incomplete product, then showed such total ineptitude at fixing bugs and releasing new content that they were forced to hand out free game time, before losing 90% of their subs and going free to play.

 

The new devs are at least releasing stuff, and probably on a tiny fraction of the budget.

I am curious as to what the break down of the actuall Dev dollars were minus the VO's and Marketing and cutscenes. The hero Engine was realtively cheap for them. I suspect that BW just had completely flawed focus groups on how to structure the game and what features to include. I do agree they could not do any worse as far as devolpment but it makes zero sense because Ohlen is for all intents and purposes a phenomanaly talented game designer. And so was most of the leads in this game. It's quite possible EA gave them the recipe and they just added ingredients .