Stuns are killing PvP

[Ulfrik_Wulfgar]

I've just been PvPing in Warzones for the last four hours and I haven't been on the winning side once. Not because I don't know how to use my class, not because I'm on a team that don't know how to use their class, but because every team I've gone up against they have more stuns. For five matches in a row I didn't get a single kill because all I did was be stunned and killed repeatedly for the entire match, earning precisely zero valor.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again. PvP is fundamentally broken because Bioware have not put thought in to how their abilities effect PvP. Stuns in the single player campaign are great, they work exactly as intended. In PvP it completely unbalances the game, coming down to the team with the most stuns wins. It's frustrating beyond measure. The entire thing is exacerbated by the lack of any team matching system when you join allowing for teams of entirely the same class, being formed which determines the outcome before you've even loaded the WZ.

 

Yes, the easy answer is re-roll on a PvE server but that's not what I want from this game. I want PvP that is balanced, fun and fair, where the outcome is decided by the skill of the player rather than the make up of the team. PvP where I can actually PvP rather than stand and die stunned without achieving anything.

Edited February 4, 2013 by Ulfrik_Wulfgar

[Defecter]

For five matches in a row I didn't get a single kill because all I did was be stunned and killed repeatedly for the entire match, earning precisely zero valor.

I'm sorry, but this simply isn't possible unles;

 

A). Facing hackers.

B). Facing a premade team of Scoundrels/Operatives who are specifically targetting you and you alone.

C). You suck immensely.

D). You run around solo instead of working as a group (ties back into point C).

E). You're overstating the facts so much that the facts have become a fairy tale about flying unicorns trying to mate with four-headed monkeys of which each head has a different rainbow-colored afro.

 

You can get a kill by simply taking your face, smashing it repeatedly into your keyboard while throwing your mouse against the nearest wall.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again. PvP is fundamentally broken because Bioware have not put thought in to how their abilities effect PvP. Stuns in the single player campaign are great, they work exactly as intended. In PvP it completely unbalances the game, coming down to the team with the most stuns wins. It's frustrating beyond measure. The entire thing is exacerbated by the lack of any team matching system when you join allowing for teams of entirely the same class, being formed which determines the outcome before you've even loaded the WZ.

I love stuns. I especially love people who don't know when to use their stuns (on the opposing team anyway).

 

Yeah, if you're one of those people who randomly runs around solo, you will get stunlocked to death. But in that case, the fault does not lie with the stuns.

 

Yes, the easy answer is re-roll on a PvE server but that's not what I want from this game. I want PvP that is balanced, fun and fair, where the outcome is decided by the skill of the player rather than the make up of the team. PvP where I can actually PvP rather than stand and die stunned without achieving anything.

To me, taking out or diminishing stuns, actually decreases the amount of skill required. Stuns, like any other ability, are the tools that any class gets. True, some classes get more/better stuns then others. But if you're going to go that route, Bioware might just as well decide to wipe the slate clean and have everyone roll a single class with a single AC so that people can't moan and complain about the grass on the other side.

 

Sorry if I come off as a bit offensive. It's by no means meant as a personal attack or anything. It's just that it's starting to peeve me off a bit how everyone seems to complain rather than deal with it.

[piSith]

Are you trolling? Just standing around a group of players gets you kill medals, just standing at a node you get Bronze Def medal, just getting one last hit gets you a medal........ either you're running naked and auto attacking everyone, or this is a bad troll.

[ObiJuanShenobi]

LMAO! Kudos! One of the funnies things I've seen all week.

 

I know you said it has nothing to do with skill....but, yeah...I beg to differ. It has everything to do with skill and you apparently lack it. It's okay though, just keep practicing.

 

As a Scoundrel, I daresay that I rofl stomp quite a bit of folks...but one on one against someone who actually matches me in skill (not gear), and I've got my hands full. Stealths and Stuns are annoying to some, but if you can't manage your side of that fight when it comes to those things, you need some serious pvp schooling.

Edited February 5, 2013 by ObiJuanShenobi

[Viperight]

I'm sorry dude, but if you're not getting any kills b/c people are stunning you repeatedly, then you royally suck! The only people that get demolished like you apparently did, are the ones that go off on their own thinking they're the best at everything. To take stuns out of PvP would be the worst possible thing Bioware could do. I'll be honest, I get stunned just as much as anyone, and I still manage to get medals b/c I then target that person with my own stuns. And give as good as I get. So before you start complaining about getting stunned, learn how to PvP. Edited February 5, 2013 by Viperight

[Zakmonster]

I don't understand people who complain about getting stunlocked. Do they not have stuns of their own?

 

In WZs, I tend to get focused and stunned to death quite a bit, but that's because I'm an assault VG and have that wonderful combination of being dangerous and squishy.

 

However, I've played enough MOBAs (DOTA and LoL) to not care if I get stunned and killed, as long as my team wins in the end. The enemy team using their stuns to kill me means that they don't have those stuns when my team kills them.

[Dreadgos]

Its not stuns that are "killing" pvp. Its you get over it.

[JackNader]

It's the Loss of control of their character that ***** people to tears. It is completely irrelevant if you have stuns too.

 

It's like saying to a rape victim, if we let you rape them back it's all good right! NO!

[Ganjavus]

Well, in a way I have to agree with OP. The best teams on my server are the ones who have their cc perfectly timed.

 

But that's from my point of view as a melee nurse killer, that's my job. The oppositions job is to lock me down asap.

 

So in a way you could say that how well you play in pvp in swtor is how well you manage cc on the opposition.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Ganjavus

[rainbow]

It's not stuns alone... it's the problem that you die too fast and get too few resolve for the duration of the stun mostly.

[LastWizard]

Must be another mando if its this bad.

[Flowerpunkt]

"For five matches in a row I didn't get a single kill because all I did was be stunned and killed repeatedly for the entire match, earning precisely zero valor."

 

If its true, I think you deserved at least one potatoe medal for being the worst SWTOR player in the entire universe.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Flowerpunkt

[FrogSkin]

Stuns are essential. Resolve however needs fixing.

 

Knock backs dont count for enough and resolve ticking down while you are in the starting area negates the point to resolve. Getting stun locked to death and then watching your resolve bar dissolve, yet your stun breaker is still on cool down is were the in-balance lye's.

 

CC is essential, Bioware just need to fix resolve and balance it further.

[Siorac]

It's the Loss of control of their character that ***** people to tears. It is completely irrelevant if you have stuns too.

 

It's like saying to a rape victim, if we let you rape them back it's all good right! NO!

 

That is the point, yes. Many of us - unlike the OP - do not say we lose because of stuns. Both teams have stuns in a warzone, both teams can stunlock, both teams can win. That is not the issue.

 

The issue is that the constant CC fest makes warzones annoying and not fun. You spend too much time not in control of your character and that is extremely frustrating, more frustrating than dying (for me). Stuns have short cooldowns, there's no possible downside to using them to start focus fire and a burst rotation so there's no need for strategic usage, you can just throw them at your target any time you want.

[LastWizard]

The max time somebody can be stunned is 8 seconds right? Just reduce it to 6.

[wwkingms]

That is the point, yes. Many of us - unlike the OP - do not say we lose because of stuns. Both teams have stuns in a warzone, both teams can stunlock, both teams can win. That is not the issue.

 

The issue is that the constant CC fest makes warzones annoying and not fun. You spend too much time not in control of your character and that is extremely frustrating, more frustrating than dying (for me). Stuns have short cooldowns, there's no possible downside to using them to start focus fire and a burst rotation so there's no need for strategic usage, you can just throw them at your target any time you want.

 

definitely..

 

if im gonna get my butt wooped by a group of enemies i at least wanna be in control of my toon while it happens

 

 

as a sorc i have died in one 4 second stun with 2 enemies on me... imagine what eating 8 seconds straight does to my class

 

20.3 k hp and 1210 exp btw

Edited February 5, 2013 by wwkingms

[Siorac]

The max time somebody can be stunned is 8 seconds right? Just reduce it to 6.

 

It's about 15 right now, with the delicious bubblestun. Of course you don't live long enough for that but in theory it's possible.

[LastWizard]

It's about 15 right now, with the delicious bubblestun. Of course you don't live long enough for that but in theory it's possible.

 

How silly of me. I was only thinking about offensive stuns. Resolve needs to be reworked not the stuns.

[Ulfrik_Wulfgar]

That is the point, yes. Many of us - unlike the OP - do not say we lose because of stuns. Both teams have stuns in a warzone, both teams can stunlock, both teams can win. That is not the issue.

 

The issue is that the constant CC fest makes warzones annoying and not fun. You spend too much time not in control of your character and that is extremely frustrating, more frustrating than dying (for me). Stuns have short cooldowns, there's no possible downside to using them to start focus fire and a burst rotation so there's no need for strategic usage, you can just throw them at your target any time you want.

 

Let me try explain the point I'm making. There is no matching system in TOR. What I mean by that is the game randomly chooses the next eight people in the queue for PvP. It pays no attention to their class, only their faction so you don't get mixed factions. Now what that means is that you can, and quite often do, have an over balanced team with AOE stuns running around, stunning the enemy team each time they exit their stun and wiping the floor with them being unable to retaliate. The second problem is that there is an over abundance of classes with stuns. As far as I'm aware, every class has at least one stun. This makes no sense from a PvP perspective but does make sense from a PvE perspective. When you combine these two issues, problems start to occur. If the game only allowed for a set number of each class to join a warzone you wouldn't get these problems. However, that's impractical given the nature of not knowing who will be on at any given time and would inevitably lead to under strength teams. Stuns in and of themselves aren't the problem, it's the over abundance of them in the game that is.

 

Now what I'm proposing is that Bioware conduct a review of all the abilities in this game and look at how they effect PvP. Skill trees should not be divided by burst DPS, sustained DPS and Tank, they should be divided by Warzone, leveling and Flashpoints. When you reach the end-game, i.e. the end of your class story, you re-skill depending upon your interests or what you're planning to do that day. If it's PvP you re-skill to the PvP tree but the PvP tree has significant disadvantages for PvE and vice versa discouraging the use of these trees

 

I mean look at PvP in this game with a clear head and don't take this as an attack on your preferred class. Look at the bigger picture. Melee classes with kick back abilities, ranged classes with pull to abilities. Cloaking classes with long cool downs on their (force) cloaking ability. Classes that can stun without any cool down and can cripple teams single handed. How is any of that logical for a PvP environment? What makes something work great in PvE doesn't mean it works well in PvP, quite often the opposite is true. Look at this forum, look at the number of complaints over class imbalance issues. Whether or not you agree that the abundance of classes with stuns is ruining the game or not, everyone has a complaint somewhere about some class having some over powered feature. PvP in TOR is fundamentally broken and Bioware needs to sit down and take a long, hard look at it and, with community input, put a plan in place to fix it.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Ulfrik_Wulfgar

[HollowVamp]

I'm sorry, but this simply isn't possible unles;

 

A). Facing hackers.

B). Facing a premade team of Scoundrels/Operatives who are specifically targetting you and you alone.

C). You suck immensely.

D). You run around solo instead of working as a group (ties back into point C).

E). You're overstating the facts so much that the facts have become a fairy tale about flying unicorns trying to mate with four-headed monkeys of which each head has a different rainbow-colored afro.

 

 

Well to be fair resolve itself is broken, until they redesign it, pvp play will remain ******, too often i hit full resolve near the endzone on huttball, pop cc break, and somehow a extra stun past full still works on me.

On a side note, it's not stuns I have a problem with, they are needed, but stuns/cc are supposed to be planned, coordinated, and thought out before using it on CD, it was like this in beta, but theyve changed everything, you can mindlessly spam them now, and they're off cd in just a bit, that's where things went out of wack.

Edited February 5, 2013 by HollowVamp

[Ulfrik_Wulfgar]

Well to be fair resolve itself is broken, until they redesign it, pvp play will remain ******, too often i hit full resolve near the endzone on huttball, pop cc break, and somehow a extra stun past full still works on me.

On a side note, it's not stuns I have a problem with, they are needed, but stuns/cc are supposed to be planned, coordinated, and thought out before using it on CD, it was like this in beta, but theyve changed everything, you can mindlessly spam them now, and they're off cd in just a bit, that's where things went out of wack.

 

The guy you're quoting is just a clueless troll who couldn't even read the post in its entirety. If it was just me then yeah, I'd suck but a different random team of eight over multiple occasions? Just done a match now, the opposing team wiped the floor with us. Why? Because we all suck? No, because a single operative was able to stun everyone while the Marauders cleaned house. But the trolls would have you believe that's balanced. Whether I'm on the team with all the stuns or a team that's on the receiving end of all the stuns, it's just not a competitive match and those types of matches are not fun and worse, they're off putting to new PvPers.

[Carter_Mathis]

Would you be willing to lose all your stuns? For the overall benefit of the game of course

[TUXs]

Stuns are essential. Resolve however needs fixing.

 

Knock backs dont count for enough and resolve ticking down while you are in the starting area negates the point to resolve. Getting stun locked to death and then watching your resolve bar dissolve, yet your stun breaker is still on cool down is were the in-balance lye's.

 

CC is essential, Bioware just need to fix resolve and balance it further.

 

Hmmm...stuns can be very important, I totally agree, but far too often they're used to hold a target in place while he's pummeled to death with no ability to fight back. I'd be perfectly fine with the massive crap ton of CC's in-game, IF, stuns reduced the damage you take (less 75%). THAT would make using them strategic...right now they're just frustrating as hell.

[TUXs]

Would you be willing to lose all your stuns? For the overall benefit of the game of course

 

Versus what we have now, yes.

[Thulcondar]

I see nothing wrong with stuns and after reading all the related threads I am convinced the issue is length of stun, length of stun/break cooldown and damage taken while stunned.