Do other MMOs have the Ability to Fly

[Urael]

The thing is MMORPGs didn't use to have mounts, then they did (well mostly).

 

Some people expect flying mounts as part of that progression (especially if they just come from WoW).

 

It may be unrealistic, but equally it is understandable.

 

Anarchy Online. Notum Wars expansion in 2002 introduced flying vehicles. So from as far back as a decade ago there was a game with flying mounts. It's not just "a WoW thing".

Edited February 4, 2013 by Urael

[GalacticKegger]

The thing is MMORPGs didn't use to have mounts, then they did (well mostly).

 

Some people expect flying mounts as part of that progression (especially if they just come from WoW).

 

It may be unrealistic, but equally it is understandable.

Ya ... the Twitter speed generation kinda gets lost when confronted with volume that lacks skip-throughs. Why enjoy a book when Cliff's Notes can be read overnight? Or its movie adaptation can be watched in 2 hours? It's not just the gaming industry either. Pretty much every form of entertainment that can't be completed during a lunch break is suffering. Many can't stay chilled & focused long enough to enjoy the ride - they just wants the spoils now so they can queue for the next one. Edited February 4, 2013 by GalacticKegger

[Drudenfusz]

To all the players worried over flying travel mode, Its all very really absolutely amazingly incredibly simple:

 

Don't like flying mounts don't use flying mounts.

 

Nobody else will care.

Nope, it's not that simple. Open world PvP would be still dead, regardless if I use it or not. Sure, there is not much open world PvP at the moment anyway, but it would be even less then.

[GalacticKegger]

Depends on which side you are on. There are those that claim I am a biodrone. There are those that claim I am a hater. I have been called both. SSDD.

Uh ... nyet.

[Urael]

Uh ... nyet.

 

I was accused of being the same person as Andryah on many occasions ask TUXs.

[GalacticKegger]

I was accused of being the same person as Andryah on many occasions ask TUXs.

Okay ...

[Aries_cz]

Actually, you have no supporting evidence. I did a search on the Net concerning the Hero Engine and Flying and could come up with no supporting data/documentation stating that it could handle free movement in the Z-axis for flight purposes. Just because you can jump and climb does not diffinitively support flight. You make an assumtion and then accuse people of trolling. One could say the same about unsupported statements regarding the Hero Engines capabilites. Again, with no supporting evidence we don't know. Right now the only z-axis "flight" movement supported by the Hero Engine seems to be for use in "taxi" style movement.

Hero Engine supports it for designers (see wiki http://hewiki.heroengine.com/wiki/Fly_Mode), so it is reasonable to assume that it should work for playing either by default, or with some tweaks to the engine (which is already tweaked very much)

 

To all the players worried over flying travel mode, Its all very really absolutely amazingly incredibly simple:

Don't like flying mounts don't use flying mounts.

Nobody else will care.

We are not concerned about the mounts, we are simply stating that their inclusion would mean the need to probably redo much of the existing locations to be fully compatible (so no building lacking some outside wall because that area is unaccessible by normal means, etc).

[chuixupu]

I was accused of being the same person as Andryah on many occasions ask TUXs.

 

I haven't seen Andryah in months, what did you do with her!

Edited February 4, 2013 by chuixupu

[Urael]

Hero Engine supports it for designers (see wiki http://hewiki.heroengine.com/wiki/Fly_Mode), so it is reasonable to assume that it should work for playing either by default, or with some tweaks to the engine (which is already tweaked very much).

 

Thanks for the link. The assumtion concerning whether it should work or not would be based on if this feature was part of the engine that BW used. It has been stated that BW used a pre-release Hero Engine that is not as robust as the current Hero Engine.

[Urael]

I haven't seen Andryah in months, what did you do with her!

 

I miss Andryah too.

[Stellatus]

Flying mounts were a lot more detrimental to WoW than people realize, and it's a problem the devs are aware of. They've stated multiple times in blue posts they wish they had gone about flying mounts in a different way, because they've made world pvp a non-thing and made the world much smaller overall.

 

SWTOR has a much smaller gameworld than WoW, and the zones are designed in a manner completely non conducive to flying mounts. Not to mention World PVP already barely exists in SWTOR.

 

Besides, flying mounts aren't really a "thing" in Star Wars. You see plenty of low-flying vehicles like speederbikes and landspeeders, which we already have. They just need to make them faster.

Edited February 4, 2013 by Stellatus

[Royox]

Flying option = killing outdoor pvp.

[GalacticKegger]

I miss Andryah too.

You guys crack me up.

[SlimsPicken]

I haven't seen Andryah in months, what did you do with her!

 

ye gods. good riddance.

[chuixupu]

Flying option = killing outdoor pvp.

 

I don't think it killed it in WoW. In fact my favorite Outdoor PVP memories were in the days of Halaa in Nagrand. Good times.

[Sliverspark]

The only other MMO I have played that actually gives your character the ability to fly, was City of Heroes/Villains. I've played a lot of other games, and CoH and WoW are the only ones I've seen that have implemented anything like this.

 

It would be nigh impossible to do this with SWTOR in any efficient way. I'm not a game designer, but I know that if you don't have swimming in your game, you more than likely don't have a z-Axis; and that's what's needed to have full 3-dimensional movement. As I understand it, (and this is just what I've learned, I could be wrong), putting a z-axis into a game post-launch isn't worth the time or the man hours.

[chuixupu]

The only other MMO I have played that actually gives your character the ability to fly, was City of Heroes/Villains. I've played a lot of other games, and CoH and WoW are the only ones I've seen that have implemented anything like this.

 

It would be nigh impossible to do this with SWTOR in any efficient way. I'm not a game designer, but I know that if you don't have swimming in your game, you more than likely don't have a z-Axis; and that's what's needed to have full 3-dimensional movement. As I understand it, (and this is just what I've learned, I could be wrong), putting a z-axis into a game post-launch isn't worth the time or the man hours.

 

Interesting point, though who knows if that's the case. I always just assumed they didn't want to put swimming in the game out of laziness or just that they didn't see the point of doing underwater quests. If they ever decided to have Naboo in the game they might decide otherwise. Perhaps they really need to find a way to upgrade the engine.

[Datku]

Wow had flying mounts although they limited where they could be used for a while. Reason being that in many areas of the world there was no real volume to things...window dressing so to speak and if you could fly you would see all the rough areas that needed to be fixed and it wasn't a priority. Maybe when they did cataclysm or whatever it was they allowed flying mounts in the old world areas prior to that it was just the Burning Crusades area and later parts of Lich King lands. Aion also had a flight ability. The abyss you could fly all over but you had limited time before you became "exhausted" and fell out of the sky. You could expand your flight time or use potions to replenish flight time. There was also a couple of world area's that you could fly again limited time. Although you could glide just about anywhere (abyss or real world).

 

The biggest issue though with flying mounts/abilities comes from the PvP perspective. Imagine that...PvP always tend to screw things up whining about one thing or another. Anyway the big "whine" from WoW was that it bypassed PvP. You could just fly over people and avoid PvP if you wanted to and of course all the PvP griefers cried oceans full over the fact that people could actually get around them. Although there was some success in also claiming that it bypassed to many area's in game...where effort went into scenery or mob placements that were being lost or skipped by people with flying mounts. That the world was more empty because people just flew from one point to the next instead of running. And of course the whine of those that had and those that didn't. Those that didn't have flying mounts cried that it was unfair that those with flying mounts could by pass mobs to get to objectives while they had to go on ground and clear the path of mobs to get to the same objective. Now here's the kicker....at a certain level EVERYONE could get a flying mount (a cheap slow one or a more expensive fast one). But that was just a detail that whiners neglected to talk about (like a lvl 70 would need an objective in a lvl 50 area...reality it was more of a gathering material whine than anything else...flyers could gather lower lvl mats faster than lower levels could gather the same mats).

 

Heck even in Aion there was QQ's over flight. Aion had portals you could go through randomly that put you in the other factions lands for PvP. Some cried that gliding ruined PvP because people could glide to get away or glide to run people down that try to get away. Or in the abyss where everyone could fly they would QQ because someone dropped wings on them and suicides when they got jumped by 10+ enemy's. Actually that was a bit of fun...you could drop wings and free fall for a few seconds before auto death...but when chased you could drop wings and possibly get far enough from the attackers when you popped wings to get clear if they chased after you then you just auto died to prevent them from getting the kill on you...more so if you were a ranked player like a general or something.

 

Now I have enjoyed flight in any MMO I have played that had it...and wished more had it. But there is a loud voice against flight in MMO's from people that think it breaks immersion (and generally those that claim this don't even play on RP servers where they are getting immersed and it might have a valid point) . Generally though its the PvPer's on PvP servers crying the loudest to keep flight out of the games because it takes away from their ability to terrorize and gank people forced to follow certain paths through areas they can stalk like highway robbers. Missing a statue or other details scattered throughout various MMO worlds really don't matter to most people mounts are to get from point A to point B the fastest possible. Besides when it comes to exploration you can do sooo much more with flight discoveries than Mario style rock jumping or clipping graphics to get up sides of mountains etc. I would support more flight options in SWTOR or really any MMO, but my voice is not nearly as loud as the PvP griefers voices.

Edited February 4, 2013 by Datku

[Datku]

I don't think it killed it in WoW. In fact my favorite Outdoor PVP memories were in the days of Halaa in Nagrand. Good times.

 

Ah yes I loved Halaa. I spent many hours circling the zone looking for targets on my netherdrake. Only problem is I got known well enough that if the horde saw me airborn in the area they would not attack Halaa unless they had crazy numbers or even run back to a town. Many times I would swoop in on my drake to a fight going on and as soon as I got close to ground jump off and engage only to see many Horde spot me circling back towards them and running to the cliff walls and jumping off Was actually pretty funny...if I was flying about without my helm showing it was a sign I wasn't up for PvP at the time and the horde didn't worry...but if they saw me in air with my helm showing they knew I was hunting and that's when they would run away LOL. Even had some friends on the horde side of my server confirm that fact and told me that pretty much any time I was spotted in the Halaa zone I was identified and called out as a warning...Muhahahaha. Just because we had the number 1 arena warlock on our server that was scared to face me on my BM Hunter I became a legend

[Manifoldgodhead]

Flying mounts were a lot more detrimental to WoW than people realize, and it's a problem the devs are aware of. They've stated multiple times in blue posts they wish they had gone about flying mounts in a different way, because they've made world pvp a non-thing and made the world much smaller overall.

 

SWTOR has a much smaller gameworld than WoW, and the zones are designed in a manner completely non conducive to flying mounts. Not to mention World PVP already barely exists in SWTOR.

 

Besides, flying mounts aren't really a "thing" in Star Wars. You see plenty of low-flying vehicles like speederbikes and landspeeders, which we already have. They just need to make them faster.

 

Lol, world PvP is dead in any game that is not designed around world PvP. WoW is about questing and raiding. The PvP is a mini-game at best. World PvP is possible and best in an open sandbox setting that rewards players for working together, but also places them at odds with each other over resources and territory.

 

Specifically world PvP only works without vertical progression. World PvP in WoW was awful. It was mostly just 60s popping lowbies who then either get their 60's or call other 60's. Vertical progression ruins PvP so why not have all the fun stuff like flying.

[Jeweledleah]

problem with pvp and flying mounts in WoW that people who can fly? do. so its only low levels left. and big Kahunas on their big dragons go and gunk stalk people 30+ levels bellow them.

 

Halaa was fun. so was taking over Hellfire peninsula and that dead circle in Terrokar (can't remember its name right now, sorry). But it was designed specifically with open pvp and flying mounts in mind, at the time, you only had 10-12 levels difference between starting characters and max level ones and you HAD to dismount (or at least be within attack range) to accomplish objectives.

 

its not quite the same nowadays. and I'm saying this as someone who came back to WoW for 2 months recently and stopped playing again before second month was finished.

 

flying mounts again becomes a question of convenience and speeding up your experience (why are people playing if they can't wait to be done and want to shorten experience as much as possible? I just don't get it) vs everything else.

 

I personally don't think its worth it. others may think differently. but like someone else mentioned, even Blizzard regrets making flying so much of a part of WoW, to the point where they are introducing more and more no-flying zones. they already limited how soon you could get flight in Pandaria (have to be max level).

 

one of the things that makes flying somewhat work in WoW is that zones are at least connected. in SWTOR - you cannot just fly from planet to planet continuously, you have to hop on a ship, travel, hop back down. and unlike Wow's hearth - quick travel is not limited to specific set point. one of the reasons why I'm keeping my subscription even when I go through week or more of being distracted by other games - is because I like to abuse my quick travel.

 

so honestly for me, if they just introduce a legacy perk that shortens the cooldown to, say 15 minutes, and make it possible to send out a shuttle or something for people trying to get to a heroic mission area ? and who needs flying mounts anyways

[Aries_cz]

Thanks for the link. The assumtion concerning whether it should work or not would be based on if this feature was part of the engine that BW used. It has been stated that BW used a pre-release Hero Engine that is not as robust as the current Hero Engine.

If you check the History of linked page (it is a Wiki after all, so quite easy) you can see that it was present at least since June 2010, which seems really early date by that wiki standards, as the Main page oldest recored is from 2011

[Ecaj]

Interesting, in that case maybe several years down the line we might see a flight update, but I'm not holding my breath, especially with the Datacron issue.

 

It can and has been added years down the line in other MMOS (WoW and SWG just before it shut down). So fingers crossed for one day.

[Admiral_Petty]

Interesting to see the varied viewpoints on flying in MMOs. While I see some of the arguments, others I don't for instance, having it be a high level character perk doesn't allow people to skip the whole game.

 

Also, as for people who say it ruins mob placement, does anyone actually enjoy fighting mindless mobs? Mobs are my least favorite part of any MMO I have ever played. They seriously make combat a chore rather than fun. That's why I preferred the way that KOTOR didn't have respawning foes, except in a few instances, and that was only once in certain areas. I see most people go out of their way to skip mobs, and most know the perfect paths to fight the fewest in FP and OPS.

 

The PVP aspect I understand more, but even that could be handled if incorporated well, I loved City of Heroes PVP after all.

 

As for resources, it would take a lot of resources, hence the reason I said I would like to see it years down the line. And lets face it, some of the planets definitely have room for interesting expansion. I honestly don't see the engine being a problem flight-wise either, Taxis are proof that it can be done. The lack of swimming is just due to the fact that they didn't view it as worthwhile to add, but who knows, maybe we'll see that years down the line as well.

 

All in all, I agree that the game can't support as it is now, but it is only a year old, who's to say where things could be several years down the line. I would love to one day fly a Thranta threw the mountains of Alderaan.

[Heezdedjim]

There have been others with free flight as ability for the character without a mount (super hero mmo's and aion for instance ). Oh wait! The first game I ever played with a flying mount was Anarchy Online (circa 2003). Technically the Yalmaha is a vehichle even though it's really a character transformation into the vehichle.

Yeah, it's funny watching your toon "board" a vehicle that is smaller in every dimension than the character itself. It also has the somewhat annoying mechanic that you have to "wear" the vehicle by equipping it into a gear slot in order to use it. Good times.

Edited February 4, 2013 by Heezdedjim