Will sorcerers die?

[wwkingms]

I don't think you know how to play this class. When im playing my sorc im unbeatable unless im under focus fire! Its all about using your surroundings. Moving while applying dots or hitting shock. Then spam chain lightning if possible and you will wreck havic. L2P or go reroll!

 

proof

 

 

lemme see u 1v1 and beat a full ewh pyro pt

 

lemme know how eating 15k dmg in 3 gcd's feels oh great one

[darthgamer]

Yeah, I'm generally agreeing with this, I'm usually one of the more competitive members of any pug team I join. And that's no matter whether or not I'm heals / bubbles, full madness, bubbles / hybrid dps, or whatever.

 

This crap about survivability seems to stem from a lack of understanding or ability to use crowd control properly. I mean, if I'm 0/23/18 I have so much crazy CC at my disposal... I'm easily one of the most annoying elements on the field. If they're not focus firing me, they're doing it wrong because I'm going to endlessly slow them down and interrupt them.

 

Learn to play the class, it is really quite amusing once you do.

 

The arguement is that we shouldnt have to hybrid ourselves out like prostitutes to be viable

[wwkingms]

The arguement is that we shouldnt have to hybrid ourselves out like prostitutes to be viable

 

i know right?

 

"l2p ur class, ur role is to be annoying.. "

 

sorry i picked a ranged light armor wearer to do some fking dmg, not annoy people

[Atramar]

The arguement is that we shouldnt have to hybrid ourselves out like prostitutes to be viable

 

You were given a solution, and you complain ' But I dont wanna go hybrid, I wanna go 0/41/0 and kick arse'

 

most classes have to go a bit here and a bit there to pull out most. That's what good players do, Adapt. (Darvin's Evolution theory says 'hello')

[ahduth]

You were given a solution, and you complain ' But I dont wanna go hybrid, I wanna go 0/41/0 and kick arse'

 

most classes have to go a bit here and a bit there to pull out most. That's what good players do, Adapt. (Darvin's Evolution theory says 'hello')

 

I don't think you can actually go 0/41/0, can you? Not enough spots available for those points.

[cycao]

I am not sure what sorcs need. I play with what I consider a top tier pvp sorc healer and he is amazing. I also run with another that can put out terrific damage in pvp. Perhaps lightning could use some burst help but I think the madness tree is fine.

[Jarlaxb]

I have played a sorc sense beta specifically a healer. When the game came out, the class was balanced minus one bug. We did outheal every other healing class, this was intended, we were the weakest with the least amount of armor, utilities, and mobility.

 

The suriveability utilities are in the other two "dps" trees even insreased dammage absorbtion from the bubble, we have light armor with no passive boosts, we can not stealth like ops or have medium armor like ops, we can't heal on the run, we have no free auto attack heal, no dammage mitigation % for x seconds abilities,and initally resurgance was weak because it was really meant as a setup ability for your other abilities.

 

This was why we outhealed the other healing classes, I was cool with that.

 

Consumption - used to give us a way to regen our force on Innervate critical hits, so you either used the buff from resurgance to lower the cast time on your big heal to around 1 second with alacrity "burst healing but out of force soon ability", lower the force cost of your small heal by 60% ,or AoE heal by 60%, or increase the critical rate of Innervate by 60% granting you the free consumption 100% of the time. This actually made alacrity actually a worth it stat because on lower the channel of Innervate and getting Dark Infusion to one second with the buff.

 

They never fixed the bug only bandaided it and broke us. They need to put it back the way it was and fix it the right way.

 

One thing that has been not mentioned a lot is the simple fact that in a warzone healing is nerfed 40% off the top, this was actually implimented at the start of the game, before all the changes to stat weights, as main stats at one time scaled equally for healing and dps. Now, expertice- dps> healing, power- dps> healing, willpower dps>healing. Now you do realize eventually the gap will become so great that dps=2x heal if its not already.

 

I still remember the giant thread that wen't well over a few new forums about how 1dps > healer. This was justified by saying "well cross healing" with no reguard to the fact that "cross heals"= 2v1. I realize that actually having to focus fire a healer might be a challenge sense every dps and their mom puts target markers on our heads.

 

Now look, they listened to all the banter and forgot that squishey= more dammage or heals because they are squishey. I remember when they nerfed the wrath tree because of chain lightning, an AoE that hits for 3kish and the buff to refresh the cooldown on it and make it instant cast was in the lightning tree. Using wrath to make it instant didn't refresh the cooldown just made it useable, and now an instant AoE that hits for 5 or 6k is ok that can be used while the person has CC immunity, heavy armor and x sec duration god mode abilities.

 

Thundering Blast should be the hargest hitting single target ability in the game and it should definetly hit harder than any area of effect ability. Meaning that 8k is to much, reduce dammage of other stuff on other classes. Or, reduce the casting time to compensate, make it instant. Something to warrent the fact that a: its a long casted ability that can be inturrpted, costs 31 points, and used by the squishest class in the game.

 

It's pretty much destroyed in forms of balance due to the trolls of bad melee who want to be able to stand there and take 5 hard casts before turning to deal with you instead of the target they are focusing. Then being able to kill you anyway. Where as, I cant take 5 abilities from them at all or get away with the 30 meter gap closers, roots, snares, stunns and hard hitting melee abilities.

 

The cast time reduction on Dark infusion was a nessesity for a sorc healer to survive in PvP, It wasn't OP god mode it just allowed me to heal myself for almost as much as I got hit for in 1 second, but I cant keep that up because I will run out of rescources fast, it allowed the class to escape to find help, if I still stood there and tried to face tank I would still go down pretty hard unless I had a guard, at that point the fight becomes 2v1 anyway.

 

Everything has been taken away from the class that defined it as "glass cannon" and we are left with only "glass" not only for healing, but the DPS side as well.

 

Look at our cousins the assasin and what they get for baseline abilities shared with us

Whirlwind, force lightning "that hits harder", shock "that hits harder", eletrocute, overload, and I know I missed a few.

Out of these what melee type assasin abilites do we get ? .... thrash.

 

Again, this was intended because we were the "glass cannon" healer or ranged dps. Somewhere, somehow, bioware and bad pvp melee forgot what ranged glass cannon was. It was the class that if you didn't figure out where they were fast enough you were going to die, but if you did find them they were toast, not

 

"ok there is a sorc let me finish this guy off thats at 50% health, then I will leap over there after I have taken 5 nukes and still win"

[Malox]

I've been around waiting on this game for a long time (Nov 2008 was when I joined the forums) and have watched this game from the beginning. I pre-ordered and started early. I watched Operative get nerfed into the ground because enough people screamed that their backstab was hitting too hard (then came resolve (oh the days of the stun lock), which they were able to burst down even with it due to how long someone was stunned) so they nerfed acid blade (which hurt them more in operations) then they nerfed a few more of their dps abilities and stun abilities. They should have done just the stun abilities.

 

I left a little after legacy came out due to the game dwindling in players as each server (if I remember right there were 30 for NA alone) had become a ghost town with an overabundance of dps and sorc healers and very few tanks (well good ones).

 

Sorcs were getting nerfed right as I left but have been watching and keeping up with the forums and update notes to see how low BW can go (I think they are sinking this game faster than Sony did with their NGE fiasco that got SWG subscriber base from 6mil active accounts to 1 mil within a year).

 

To be honest i am not happy with the way the state of the game is with a lot of things. They have a low response time in correcting imbalances (GW2 does it faster than any MMO I've ever seen and has a separate system to keep PVE stats seperate from PVP.....HINT DESIGNERS AT BW....HUGE *********** HINT!) which has continued to cause issues. If BW actually cared about their player base they would fire the idiots that are currently making the decision as they appear to be innefective leaders in their respective fields so either they need to grow some balls and step up to the plate and deliver on a quality game that was promised years ago, or find someone that will because gamers are flighty and easily distracted by other games and we can always throw money at other F2P mmo's out there and have better results (GW2 has been doing pretty solid last time I played). Maybe now that Disney owns the rights to Lucas Arts, they can use their weight to actually get someone in there that can do the job they were hired for. God knows If I was disney I would not want my name attached to this game due to the fact that disney prides itself on quality and there are bugs still from *********** beta (couldn't keep the tiny sateel bug...NOOOO not something that was actually mildly entertaining but HAD to focus on that bug...guess they were worried about cosmetics instead of actual game breaking bugs).

 

BTW why isn't this game a 64bit process yet? oh yea....the sateel bug was more important...then came other cosmetic bugs (still never fixed the whole flying through buildings in the cut scenes when leaving star ports...if you are gonna focus on useless things start there).

 

To OP sorry I derailed your thread a bit...

 

 

TLDR: I agree this game has gone down hill (coming from someone that watched the train wreck from the beginning) and until new management in the development and live balance departments is made you will continue to see this lackluster product continue on down the tracks into the oncoming train.

[Scovina]

if they are worst, why u play it?

as I do respec to smash if my pvp team has to many tanks, my main spec on jugg is hybrid tank.

Maybe your problem is you play 'only sorcerer' and don't know other classes.

grass is always greener on the other side and all players want to buff their class. guess what. I play all of them (some got deleted tho)

 

This does not fix the issue that the sorc has though so it has no bearing on the discussion. Why should the OP have to change classes to compete? How do you even know if they don't have one of each class?

 

While I don't feel it is as dire as some make it out to be it does frustrate me that my main reason for picking a sorc was lightning and it is useless in wz's. Yeah it's great if you can stay outta harms way and take shots at other classes but 1 vs 1 we are under powered. I don't want to be the next FOM but I would like to heal a RWZ and not get smashed (not talking about the actual skill) repeatedly if I don't have someone peel off for me. LOS and movement are key and they do help but there are way to many channeled abilities for the sorc if you ask me. Other classes are too mobile for the damage they put out.

[Rincewend]

I have played a sorc sense beta specifically a healer. When the game came out, the class was balanced minus one bug. We did outheal every other healing class, this was intended, we were the weakest with the least amount of armor, utilities, and mobility.

 

The suriveability utilities are in the other two "dps" trees even insreased dammage absorbtion from the bubble, we have light armor with no passive boosts, we can not stealth like ops or have medium armor like ops, we can't heal on the run, we have no free auto attack heal, no dammage mitigation % for x seconds abilities,and initally resurgance was weak because it was really meant as a setup ability for your other abilities.

 

This was why we outhealed the other healing classes, I was cool with that.

 

Consumption - used to give us a way to regen our force on Innervate critical hits, so you either used the buff from resurgance to lower the cast time on your big heal to around 1 second with alacrity "burst healing but out of force soon ability", lower the force cost of your small heal by 60% ,or AoE heal by 60%, or increase the critical rate of Innervate by 60% granting you the free consumption 100% of the time. This actually made alacrity actually a worth it stat because on lower the channel of Innervate and getting Dark Infusion to one second with the buff.

 

They never fixed the bug only bandaided it and broke us. They need to put it back the way it was and fix it the right way.

 

One thing that has been not mentioned a lot is the simple fact that in a warzone healing is nerfed 40% off the top, this was actually implimented at the start of the game, before all the changes to stat weights, as main stats at one time scaled equally for healing and dps. Now, expertice- dps> healing, power- dps> healing, willpower dps>healing. Now you do realize eventually the gap will become so great that dps=2x heal if its not already.

 

I still remember the giant thread that wen't well over a few new forums about how 1dps > healer. This was justified by saying "well cross healing" with no reguard to the fact that "cross heals"= 2v1. I realize that actually having to focus fire a healer might be a challenge sense every dps and their mom puts target markers on our heads.

 

Now look, they listened to all the banter and forgot that squishey= more dammage or heals because they are squishey. I remember when they nerfed the wrath tree because of chain lightning, an AoE that hits for 3kish and the buff to refresh the cooldown on it and make it instant cast was in the lightning tree. Using wrath to make it instant didn't refresh the cooldown just made it useable, and now an instant AoE that hits for 5 or 6k is ok that can be used while the person has CC immunity, heavy armor and x sec duration god mode abilities.

 

Thundering Blast should be the hargest hitting single target ability in the game and it should definetly hit harder than any area of effect ability. Meaning that 8k is to much, reduce dammage of other stuff on other classes. Or, reduce the casting time to compensate, make it instant. Something to warrent the fact that a: its a long casted ability that can be inturrpted, costs 31 points, and used by the squishest class in the game.

 

It's pretty much destroyed in forms of balance due to the trolls of bad melee who want to be able to stand there and take 5 hard casts before turning to deal with you instead of the target they are focusing. Then being able to kill you anyway. Where as, I cant take 5 abilities from them at all or get away with the 30 meter gap closers, roots, snares, stunns and hard hitting melee abilities.

 

The cast time reduction on Dark infusion was a nessesity for a sorc healer to survive in PvP, It wasn't OP god mode it just allowed me to heal myself for almost as much as I got hit for in 1 second, but I cant keep that up because I will run out of rescources fast, it allowed the class to escape to find help, if I still stood there and tried to face tank I would still go down pretty hard unless I had a guard, at that point the fight becomes 2v1 anyway.

 

Everything has been taken away from the class that defined it as "glass cannon" and we are left with only "glass" not only for healing, but the DPS side as well.

 

Look at our cousins the assasin and what they get for baseline abilities shared with us

Whirlwind, force lightning "that hits harder", shock "that hits harder", eletrocute, overload, and I know I missed a few.

Out of these what melee type assasin abilites do we get ? .... thrash.

 

Again, this was intended because we were the "glass cannon" healer or ranged dps. Somewhere, somehow, bioware and bad pvp melee forgot what ranged glass cannon was. It was the class that if you didn't figure out where they were fast enough you were going to die, but if you did find them they were toast, not

 

"ok there is a sorc let me finish this guy off thats at 50% health, then I will leap over there after I have taken 5 nukes and still win"

 

Been a lighting sorc since beta, and everything above covers it, should be locked for the Dev's to read, this is what you have done to us. I can tell you even in OP's as RDPS most guilds want you to re-roll another class that has a debuff and higher dps (why I have a MM sniper).

[wwkingms]

I don't think you can actually go 0/41/0, can you? Not enough spots available for those points.

 

some quick testing shows u can go 37 pts into corruption, 37 into madness and 38 into lightning

 

which is odd lightning has 1 more pt than the other two

[Atramar]

This does not fix the issue that the sorc has though so it has no bearing on the discussion. Why should the OP have to change classes to compete? How do you even know if they don't have one of each class?

 

While I don't feel it is as dire as some make it out to be it does frustrate me that my main reason for picking a sorc was lightning and it is useless in wz's. Yeah it's great if you can stay outta harms way and take shots at other classes but 1 vs 1 we are under powered. I don't want to be the next FOM but I would like to heal a RWZ and not get smashed (not talking about the actual skill) repeatedly if I don't have someone peel off for me. LOS and movement are key and they do help but there are way to many channeled abilities for the sorc if you ask me. Other classes are too mobile for the damage they put out.

 

No one is forcing any one to play anything else.

But, every time I do new char I think, what it would be doing. Will it be a healer? or a dps? or a tank? Will it be good for pvp? does it have mobility/survival buttons?

If you stick to spec that sucks for pvp, and refuse to adapt, then I'm sorry.

For healing, again, I heard that bubbles are very desirable , but , was it till 1.2 that my operative healer was 'go away' kinda class? all just assumed they suck and only sorc healers existed? Tons of force for Sorc and energy managment for operative. Every class has pros and cons. One AC is good for pve, other for pvp. Simples.

[Griad]

I have to say having played almost all other classes in game in PVP i rather enjoy pvp.

 

2 days ago my sorc became level 50 and i whent out bought som WH gear and rest recruit, i play a madness spec and let me tell you this it is absolut rubbish in pvp this class. I will play it till i get full WH and if i still dont find it fun i will just do PVE on it.

[astrobearx]

For the love of God stop speaking useless bullshts!. We all know ( yes I speak about people who plays sorcerers actually) that sorcerers are worst class in game, Even mercs are better than him. **** and go away and enjoy ur smash while u stilll can!

lol merc is better than sorc? are you playing the class right? my sorc out heal ans dps any merc as the same level

[astrobearx]

This is a legit thread? You serious? Talk to mercs and get back to me.

this btw

[psybernetic]

There's a sorc on Pot5 by the name of Depreva who absolutely wrecks wzs and is pretty solid in duels. Granted, I've no idea what the numbers are in rwzs, but in a regular Huttball match I saw Depreva's numbers at around 400k damage, and I think that match was as lightning.

 

While the class as a whole might be somewhere in the realm of mushrooms, by no means is it completely inviable. My 50 sorc is pve-only and is more or less a free kill whenever I get jumped, but in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing, sorcs are a nasty power.

[Scovina]

No one is forcing any one to play anything else.

But, every time I do new char I think, what it would be doing. Will it be a healer? or a dps? or a tank? Will it be good for pvp? does it have mobility/survival buttons?

If you stick to spec that sucks for pvp, and refuse to adapt, then I'm sorry.

For healing, again, I heard that bubbles are very desirable , but , was it till 1.2 that my operative healer was 'go away' kinda class? all just assumed they suck and only sorc healers existed? Tons of force for Sorc and energy managment for operative. Every class has pros and cons. One AC is good for pve, other for pvp. Simples.

 

That is the problem we are talking about. You shouldn't have to spec into a specific AC to play in any area of the game. Again I'm not saying we are screwed but we are definitely low on the totem pole. They nerfed our aoe damage because they said it was too much then they gave warriors lolsmash. Seriously *** is the reasoning behind this? It is because those that were bad at noticing a rdps was on them got pissed and complained that it was too much damage. I don't see any reason why we shouldn't complain about the same things being done to us. Not like BW has been listening but if we don't stick up for ourselves no one will.

[Scovina]

There's a sorc on Pot5 by the name of Depreva who absolutely wrecks wzs and is pretty solid in duels. Granted, I've no idea what the numbers are in rwzs, but in a regular Huttball match I saw Depreva's numbers at around 400k damage, and I think that match was as lightning.

 

While the class as a whole might be somewhere in the realm of mushrooms, by no means is it completely inviable. My 50 sorc is pve-only and is more or less a free kill whenever I get jumped, but in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing, sorcs are a nasty power.

 

Seeing as I'm from Las Vegas I'd be willing to wager most of his damage in wz's is from dots. That's how I get the largest chunk of mine when I run lightning. If I can remain unmolested I can make it very hard for the other team to take down my teammates before my teammates take them seeing as I add on damage. I get it we are a support role and that does not really bother me. However we aren't exactly the glass cannon we should be.

 

1 vs 1 is an interesting arena for us. If you stay on your toes we do have a lot of abilities that make it hard for people to take us out. It's more of a cat and mouse game with me trying to outlast an alpha strike while I whittle your life away and slow/harass you enough to kill you. I do have some nukes in my arsenal as well so it's not all dots dots dots.

[LastWizard]

I think they are getting a good buff with 1.7.

[psybernetic]

Seeing as I'm from Las Vegas I'd be willing to wager most of his damage in wz's is from dots. That's how I get the largest chunk of mine when I run lightning. If I can remain unmolested I can make it very hard for the other team to take down my teammates before my teammates take them seeing as I add on damage. I get it we are a support role and that does not really bother me. However we aren't exactly the glass cannon we should be.

 

1 vs 1 is an interesting arena for us. If you stay on your toes we do have a lot of abilities that make it hard for people to take us out. It's more of a cat and mouse game with me trying to outlast an alpha strike while I whittle your life away and slow/harass you enough to kill you. I do have some nukes in my arsenal as well so it's not all dots dots dots.

 

Evidently all it really takes is knowing what you're doing and having competent teammates, as a few videos I looked up have shown.

 

I'm trying to decide whether to take an alt up as a sorc or sin for pvp. Not lookng for ezmode, since I have a rage jugg for that.

 

Then there's this guy who has a couple vids up as full lightning. http://www.bradleey.com/#!sorcerer/c1x2p

Edited February 6, 2013 by psybernetic

[Scovina]

Evidently all it really takes is knowing what you're doing and having competent teammates, as a few videos I looked up have shown.

 

I'm trying to decide whether to take an alt up as a sorc or sin for pvp. Not lookng for ezmode, since I have a rage jugg for that.

 

Then there's this guy who has a couple vids up as full lightning. http://www.bradleey.com/#!sorcerer/c1x2p

 

Yeah of course you need to be with competent teammates. You could be a lousy player with great teammates and they could make you look better. However if you notice one of the first things he does it dot whoever he is fighting. It may not seem like much but it adds up to a huge amount at the end of a fight.

 

As I said before it's not all doom and gloom as some would have us think. We can do some good crits and aoe even. You just have to pick your spots more carefully. That just comes with a ranged class. However we still don't have crits like the lolsmash spec and that's kinda silly considering we are supposed to be the aoe and/or glass cannon type class. If anything I would ask that smash got scaled back but I will take my bubble the way it is as well until that happens. However I wish the game wasn't so loaded with stuns to be honest.

[psybernetic]

Yeah of course you need to be with competent teammates. You could be a lousy player with great teammates and they could make you look better. However if you notice one of the first things he does it dot whoever he is fighting. It may not seem like much but it adds up to a huge amount at the end of a fight.

 

As I said before it's not all doom and gloom as some would have us think. We can do some good crits and aoe even. You just have to pick your spots more carefully. That just comes with a ranged class. However we still don't have crits like the lolsmash spec and that's kinda silly considering we are supposed to be the aoe and/or glass cannon type class. If anything I would ask that smash got scaled back but I will take my bubble the way it is as well until that happens. However I wish the game wasn't so loaded with stuns to be honest.

 

Agreed, smash is ridiculous at the moment, but it's also good, mindless fun. CC is totally absurd in this game, and bubble spec is probably the most infuriating thing to encounter as melee. From my experience as a smash jugg, sorcs/sages can be squishy but any worth their salt know how to escape, get peels or shut down melee trying to be problematic. I guess some people feel that if they can't faceroll to victory then their class is bad, when in reality it's just more challenging but equally capable given proper understanding of mechanics.

 

Since I play lightning pve on my 50 and had a warlock for years, not dotting a target never even came to mind. Affliction goes on everything, and CD does when it can, too.

[ClockworkSoldier]

My sorc Mourn on PoTF does pretty well in normal WZ I've played the class since launch and continue to play it now.

I enjoy the class but find i can only pull the numbers above if I am aloud to free cast for the match. I spec with a corruption madness hybrid as I find the root break on FS far to useful as the game is melee favoured.

 

We can burst in the full lightning tree but the lack of defence makes it difficult to pull off where other classes have it much easier. It's often makes me chuckle that people keep going on about smash as if it was the main treat to the game and ranked wz's. I'd like to point out that most ranking teams (including my own) have swapped out sorc DPS and even smash jugs for pyro powertechs and mara's in ataru spec's. As a pyro hitting for 3k a second then adding rail shot for 6k does far more damage focus target, plus an aoe stun and a pull. Then you have the mara's that we all know what they can do.

 

As backlash (which seems to be the only used spec for sorc, in ranked) is about to be nerfed I would expect to see some pretty big changes, if bioware care about their player base.

 

I could go ahead and suggest changes like lowering the global CD of crushing darkness so it was in line with Raze or making our shield spamable on our self (without backlash) at the expense of our force pool but i doubt the dev's even really care to be honest. Their to busy playing Pyro Powertech and lethality snipers.

 

http://www.swtor.com/blog/meet-developers-rob-hinkle

 

I guess only time will tell.

[Thurinlore]

The suriveability utilities are in the other two "dps"

What?

[orenjee]

I think sorcs might be looking at a slight buff when Makeb comes out. I don't think our burst is high enough when compared to other classes. Most of our stuff is cast heals/attacks and other classes have more instant.

 

But in terms of survivablity, I'm not gonna lie, It's horrible if you are new to kiting but sorcs can be beastmode if you know what you're doing. You have to learn the maps and figure out how to kep yourself out of range of other classes. It's hard to be good at sorc unless you understand how the other classes in the game work. I.E:

 

PT/VG: don't let them get within range to apply their big dots.

Sent/Mara/Jugg: Slow the **** out of them and figure out if they have the immune to knockback/stun upon their jump so as not to waste ****. Basically to survive them you gotta slow and run off to a LOS location.

Sniper: LOS and slow can annoy the **** out of any sniper making them constantly reposition, attack them when they are moving.

Stealth: Use you knockback(hopefully it has the root) on them instantly and use cc breaker to escape any stun. Also you should ALWAYS keep bubbled in case stealth is coming and if you supect something use an aoe around yourself to prevent surprise attacks.

 

And most importantly of all... You need teamates to peel for you. So when in doubt pull someone over or kite back to the group. And for healers at 50 that are getting flattened.... You need a *********** tank. At 50 no healer that's decent should q without one. You are basically asking to get your *** beat at 50, people pile on heals that's not a class issue, it's reality. xD