Same gender romance discussion

[sentientomega]

A few cheeky dialogues with your companion is not story content at all. Call me a homophobe, but I'm playing this game to escape the gay sh*tstorm going on in real life right now, so I think I can do without SGRA on here. I'd rather if a new chapter to the story was implemented.

 

Another one who may be this far away from crying out "Exterminate the gaaaaaaaaaaays!!!!"...

 

We exist, and no matter how much you try to get rid of us, we're here to stay, and we can do without you trolling this thread.

 

I cannot emphasise this more strongly, NO-ONE IS FORCING YOU TO MAKE YOUR CHARACTERS GAY! Or bi, or anything you don't want them to be.

 

Also, again, this thread, and its predecessors, were never about hosting straight supremacist rallies, which is precisely what posts opposing SGR content amount to; you would happily deny any number of players their right to a a wider range of choices, simply because you're utterly wrongly scared that all girls will become gay and therefore unavailable, and that all other guys will become gay and come after you.

 

That's what this is really about, fear and hatred and prejudice and trying to bottle it as legitimate protest.

Edited July 17, 2015 by sentientomega

[ForjKlahaa]

So the "get the gays out of my sight" crowd hangs around here? Good to know. Nice to know there are people out there who want to restrict content that would make me and many others happy for *reasons* when it affects them in absolutely no way at all if they don't access said content

[sentientomega]

So the "get the gays out of my sight" crowd hangs around here? Good to know. Nice to know there are people out there who want to restrict content that would make me and many others happy for *reasons* when it affects them in absolutely no way at all if they don't access said content

 

Exactly, plus nobody's saying we should force them to play SGR content, or to replace all OGR content with strictly SGR content; though as a punishment it might well give one a great feeling of schadenfreude regarding the homophobes playing this game, even though that's wrong to support because it makes us little better than them.

 

But they would know exactly how left out we've felt, especially regarding 1-50.

 

By the by, ManiacSithlord's only two posts have been in this thread; someone has issues they need to deal with, as it makes me wonder how they managed to find this thread so quickly; almost as if they were searching for it...

Edited July 17, 2015 by sentientomega

[Quething]

This idea that love interests should be fine with any gender because they are fine with any (playable) species makes no sense. All of the playable species exhibit similar human sexual dimorphism. They are not really significantly different.

 

Not to us, but we only ever see them. Visually and audibly, the near- and demi-humans are all basically humans with odd makeup, sure.

 

Odds are a lot of them smell pretty different, though, and you might be amazed at how much of a turn-off that can be. Like, even if you can't even consciously smell it. I have a friend whose partner came out as trans and went on T. No surgery, no visible physical changes, the extra hair hadn't even kicked in yet and one day he just stopped finding him sexy. The only difference was suddenly he was putting off the wrong pheromone cocktail and started smelling like a dude in my friend's lizard brain.

 

Also, don't overlook the body type and alignment issues that also indicate playersexuality. Apart from not taking off Vette's collar, there is absolutely no decision in the game that your PC can make that will make your companions unwilling to bang you. That's a hell of a lot less realistic than a large number of bi characters. (Particularly since we don't know the distribution of sexuality among aliens.)

[markcymru]

My country of living absolutely does not have anything to do with the current discussion. It's all over the world.

Well, not over the WHOLE world! Not in MY country.

[Ohmygah]

Odds are a lot of them smell pretty different, though, and you might be amazed at how much of a turn-off that can be.

That they smell so radically different is really just an assumption - unless you have some actual canon to show me. If we're talking realism, it's very unlikely that aliens would look so much like us to begin with, so I see little reason why we would have to assume that they (the playable races) smell so differently that they would turn non-bisexuals off. Also, it's pretty ridiculous to equate smell to gender. It goes beyond that.

 

Also, don't overlook the body type and alignment issues that also indicate playersexuality. Apart from not taking off Vette's collar, there is absolutely no decision in the game that your PC can make that will make your companions unwilling to bang you. That's a hell of a lot less realistic than a large number of bi characters. (Particularly since we don't know the distribution of sexuality among aliens.)

Body type and alignment cannot be equated to gender either.

I don't even know what you're trying to say here. I do want a large amount of bi characters, I just think "if you're willing to sleep with another species you should be willing to sleep with any gender" (or worse, "if you're willing to sleep with any body type, you should be willing to sleep with any gender) is a bad argument and also at least vaguely offensive to monosexual people.

 

Can we just say "I want Vette/whoever to be bisexual or open to female characters" without trying to use some bizarre argument that tries to downplay the importance of gender in who people are attracted to? People just are straight/gay/bisexual/pansexual, etc, we don't really need to validate their orientation based upon their behavior.

[Cythereal]

And before anyone pulls out the "Only X percent of people in the world are gay/bi, why should TOR pander to them?" argument, TOR already is pandering to you with love interests: the odds of one in a group of seven random people being sexually attracted to you and romantically compatible even assuming your sexualities and species are compatible is almost nil, yet you're guaranteed that at least one companion will want to marry you, two in some cases.

[sentientomega]

Let's face it, all they're really worried about is gay guys pouncing on their chars and the notion that they won't be able to treat women as straight and repressed property anymore; there's this stupidly irrational fear that gay men will automatically go on a rape rampage, and that lesbian women would exterminate all guys everywhere, and they seem to have a hard time thinking in bi terms and even if they could, it would still bug them that other players' men are romancing men and women, the women, regardless of what options they themselves take.

 

Basically, they want to be able to control how other people, people whose choices they don't respect, play; sort of e-marginalisation...

Edited July 18, 2015 by sentientomega

[dewayne]

you know im straight male. i have a few bisexual friends one im pretty sure is gay. but going i dont mind the sgr. heck ill admit it if i playing a female find ioit hard to romance a guy.

[Nefla]

Thankfully it's BioWare we're dealing with here and not the few random people that are violently opposed to same sex romance...well really male/male romance. You never see them complaining in games where there is "hot girl-on-girl" action but have one single male character who is an optional romance for the male protagonist and they flip their lid. Remember how many of them flipped out when Anders in DA2 tried to flirt with them once if they were nice to him? BW has finally started putting S/S stuff in the game but I think they had always wanted to. Whoever made the initial decision that all random flings and companion romances had to be straight only has either been overruled or is no longer in charge of such things (maybe because of Star Wars being passed to Disney). Though I can't see them changing the existing companions because of all the work it would take, I think we can look forward to a more fair ratio of new love interests in the future.

[dewayne]

Thankfully it's BioWare we're dealing with here and not the few random people that are violently opposed to same sex romance...well really male/male romance. You never see them complaining in games where there is "hot girl-on-girl" action but have one single male character who is an optional romance for the male protagonist and they flip their lid. Remember how many of them flipped out when Anders in DA2 tried to flirt with them once if they were nice to him? BW has finally started putting S/S stuff in the game but I think they had always wanted to. Whoever made the initial decision that all random flings and companion romances had to be straight only has either been overruled or is no longer in charge of such things (maybe because of Star Wars being passed to Disney). Though I can't see them changing the existing companions because of all the work it would take, I think we can look forward to a more fair ratio of new love interests in the future.

 

anders was my shock from bioware. but since i didnt like him already i think had a easier time dealing with it. but i do remember forums flipping bout him hitting on malehawke first

[Wooker]

You're way out of line, your raging homophobia isn't welcome; plus Disney disagrees with you, so there.

 

Totally call anyone against it a homophobe you ignorant people are pathetic. Why waste time and effort adding something a minority will use instead of fixing and adding things to keep the game going. I don't want some gay companion who sounds more like a woman than a woman, it's annoying as hell.

[Zandilar]

That they smell so radically different is really just an assumption - unless you have some actual canon to show me. If we're talking realism, it's very unlikely that aliens would look so much like us to begin with, so I see little reason why we would have to assume that they (the playable races) smell so differently that they would turn non-bisexuals off. Also, it's pretty ridiculous to equate smell to gender. It goes beyond that.

 

There's a number of schools of thought on the appearance of aliens, Ohmygah. I really don't think we have enough data to be making any "realism" arguments about possible alien biology, do you?

 

Realism would also dictate that attraction is based on any number of different traits, and that all the LIs are attracted to your PC (of appropriate gender) regardless body type, appearance, scars, tattoos, alignment, personality, prosthetics, and species is unrealistic in and of itself.

 

Using realism, as an argument against "bisexual" companions, is not a realistic argument at all.

 

Body type and alignment cannot be equated to gender either.

 

No, not directly. But all three are traits that an individual may be attracted to or not. The fact that ONLY gender counts in this game is not realistic. (Note: Alignment does count, but any player who knows anything about this game knows that you can overcome that with gifts, or by just not bringing that companion to a discussion where you know you're going to say/do something they're not going to like.)

 

I don't even know what you're trying to say here. I do want a large amount of bi characters, I just think "if you're willing to sleep with another species you should be willing to sleep with any gender" (or worse, "if you're willing to sleep with any body type, you should be willing to sleep with any gender) is a bad argument and also at least vaguely offensive to monosexual people.

 

I think I was the person to first raise this as an argument. I am not saying that if you're willing to sleep with a different species, you should be willing to sleep with a different gender. All I was trying to demonstrate was how all the love interests are playersexual in the first place. Species is a big gap, as big a gap as gender - humans and twi'leks are not biologically compatible to the point of not being able to produce children without intervention, not every person is attracted to tentacles/lekku, not every person is going to be attracted to weirdly glowing red eyes, and certainly not every person is going to be attracted to dark side corruption.

 

If you want to avoid playersexual NPCs, you have to make them a little more picky. But we don't want that, because then a large number of players may well be disappointed when it turns out that Vette really really hates Sith Purebloods, and doesn't care for Chiss, is a little cooler towards Cyborgs, and won't become involved with Miraluka because of the whole not having eyes thing. (Not to mention that this is a whole lot more work for the writers, because they'd have to go through this process with every LI, and revisit it every time a new species is introduced.)

 

Can we just say "I want Vette/whoever to be bisexual or open to female characters" without trying to use some bizarre argument that tries to downplay the importance of gender in who people are attracted to? People just are straight/gay/bisexual/pansexual, etc, we don't really need to validate their orientation based upon their behavior.

 

It's not a bizarre argument. Species is just as big a gap to get over as gender. If you're not going to be attracted to all genders, then you're not going to be attracted to all species. The NPC LIs are already playersexual to begin with, why is gender the only line that cannot be crossed?

 

Anyway, moot point. I don't want every NPC LI to be bisexual, I just want the ones I like to be attracted to my female PCs.

Edited July 18, 2015 by Zandilar

[vadess]

Dear Bioware,

 

Please in 4.0 give my sniper Theron... He's been dying and longing for Theron since 3.0 came out!!

 

Love and Sincerely,

 

vadess/Crimsen

[Nefla]

Dear Bioware,

 

Please in 4.0 give my sniper Theron... He's been dying and longing for Theron since 3.0 came out!!

 

Love and Sincerely,

 

vadess/Crimsen

 

Seconded!

[Diviciacus]

Gosh, if they prohibit stupid things in SWTOR I'd start watching my back if I were you!

 

#ShotsFired

 

We exist, and no matter how much you try to get rid of us, we're here to stay, and we can do without you trolling this thread.

 

DO YOU, though? After all...

 

On the internet, nobody knows you're made of cups!

 

So the "get the gays out of my sight" crowd hangs around here? Good to know. Nice to know there are people out there who want to restrict content that would make me and many others happy for *reasons* when it affects them in absolutely no way at all if they don't access said content

 

They didn't for like 400 pages and three years for the most part. Anytime someone tried that sh*t, they got crushed into violent oblivion by the weight of cold, remorseless logic.

 

This thread hasn't been active, let alone posted in for a couple of weeks, some homophobic moron just drug it up from the depths with post-necromancy.

Edited July 18, 2015 by Diviciacus

[vadess]

DO YOU[i/], though? After all...

 

On the internet, nobody knows you're made of cups!

 

Really? I'm actually made of oreos and pixels.

[OldVengeance]

There's a number of schools of thought on the appearance of aliens, Ohmygah. I really don't think we have enough data to be making any "realism" arguments about possible alien biology, do you?

 

Realism would also dictate that attraction is based on any number of different traits, and that all the LIs are attracted to your PC (of appropriate gender) regardless body type, appearance, scars, tattoos, alignment, personality, prosthetics, and species is unrealistic in and of itself.

 

Using realism, as an argument against "bisexual" companions, is not a realistic argument at all.

 

 

 

No, not directly. But all three are traits that an individual may be attracted to or not. The fact that ONLY gender counts in this game is not realistic. (Note: Alignment does count, but any player who knows anything about this game knows that you can overcome that with gifts, or by just not bringing that companion to a discussion where you know you're going to say/do something they're not going to like.)

 

 

 

I think I was the person to first raise this as an argument. I am not saying that if you're willing to sleep with a different species, you should be willing to sleep with a different gender. All I was trying to demonstrate was how all the love interests are playersexual in the first place. Species is a big gap, as big a gap as gender - humans and twi'leks are not biologically compatible to the point of not being able to produce children without intervention, not every person is attracted to tentacles/lekku, not every person is going to be attracted to weirdly glowing red eyes, and certainly not every person is going to be attracted to dark side corruption.

 

If you want to avoid playersexual NPCs, you have to make them a little more picky. But we don't want that, because then a large number of players may well be disappointed when it turns out that Vette really really hates Sith Purebloods, and doesn't care for Chiss, is a little cooler towards Cyborgs, and won't become involved with Miraluka because of the whole not having eyes thing. (Not to mention that this is a whole lot more work for the writers, because they'd have to go through this process with every LI, and revisit it every time a new species is introduced.)

 

 

 

It's not a bizarre argument. Species is just as big a gap to get over as gender. If you're not going to be attracted to all genders, then you're not going to be attracted to all species. The NPC LIs are already playersexual to begin with, why is gender the only line that cannot be crossed?

 

Anyway, moot point. I don't want every NPC LI to be bisexual, I just want the ones I like to be attracted to my female PCs.

 

I really don't agree that species is as big a gap as gender. I've never been a Talimancer or ever been especially interested in romancing her, but I even then don't have an equal level of attraction (or lack thereof) to her and say, Jacob. I honestly wouldn't imagine that most people here aren't the same. How many lesbian posters here really do find human males exactly as physically attractive as alien women?

 

There's a big difference between depicting personal taste and sexual orientation. Otherwise, then you could make a case that certain character creation combinations should be locked out of romances because they fail to be sufficiently subjectively attractive to companions.

Edited July 18, 2015 by OldVengeance

[Zandilar]

I really don't agree that species is as big a gap as gender. I've never been a Talimancer or ever been especially interested in romancing her, but I even then don't have an equal level of attraction (or lack thereof) to her and say, Jacob. I honestly wouldn't imagine that most people here aren't the same. How many lesbian posters here really do find human males exactly as physically attractive as alien women?

 

There's a big difference between depicting personal taste and sexual orientation. Otherwise, then you could make a case that certain character creation combinations should be locked out of romances because they fail to be sufficiently subjectively attractive to companions.

 

That is pretty much what I was saying, OldVengeance. Why is gender the line too far for NPC LIs? If they were treating the NPC LIs like proper people, they'd have a list of turn ons and offs. They WOULD lock certain combinations of class/species out of romancing every NPC. Right now, the line is drawn at gender, all NPC LIs are attracted to the PC regardless of any trait except gender.

 

The way it is right now isn't realistic either.

 

As for your first question - as a person attracted to women, I didn't find Jacob as appealing as Tali, but I didn't find Tali as appealing as Liara or Samantha or Miranda (and not a fan of Jack with anyone other than Miranda). In real life, I don't really find males overly appealing (I can recognise a "cute" guy aesthetically, but I am rarely ever attracted to them). BUT, neither do I find all women appealing - for example (using this game), I'm not a big fan of Nautolans, male, female, or otherwise. I'm not a fan of Miraluka because of the no eyes thing, regardless of gender. I am not a fan of certain scar options you can choose for female PCs. I am mostly turned off by dark side corruption*, and if we start in on personalities - I'm annoyed by DS people, because they are usually short sighted, cruel, stupidly violent for no real reason, or all three (Thana Vesh, for example, I've never seen her appeal).

 

Realistically, the LIs should all be far more picky than they are. Practically, that just isn't possible in a game like SWTOR - not and appeal to the widest audience. So Bioware arbitrarily decided that the (fictional) NPCs would all draw the line at gender. You might say that's more realistic, I say it's just arbitrary. Realistic would be giving the LIs a proper personalities that includes individualised attractions (not limited to/by gender - all orientations should be represented).

 

* Lana Beniko has yellow dark side eyes, but her personality belies that, and her voice? I love her, lucky me huh? The one LI who is available to all my characters, is one who I happen to find appealing - now I'm terrified of what they will do to/with her in KotFE because to might break that spell for me. Honestly, I'd like a bit more variety. (Lemda doesn't count, as her "romance" seems reluctant on her behalf, and ends with Makeb's storyline.)

[DarthLochhead]

Dear Bioware,

 

Please in 4.0 give my sniper Theron... He's been dying and longing for Theron since 3.0 came out!!

 

Love and Sincerely,

 

vadess/Crimsen

 

 

Hear Hear!

[SithKoriandr]

This thread hasn't been active, let alone posted in for a couple of weeks, some homophobic moron just drug it up from the depths with post-necromancy.

 

I figured someone necroed the thread to get it back on the front page.

[Eanelinea]

Not to us, but we only ever see them. Visually and audibly, the near- and demi-humans are all basically humans with odd makeup, sure.

 

Odds are a lot of them smell pretty different, though, and you might be amazed at how much of a turn-off that can be. Like, even if you can't even consciously smell it. I have a friend whose partner came out as trans and went on T. No surgery, no visible physical changes, the extra hair hadn't even kicked in yet and one day he just stopped finding him sexy. The only difference was suddenly he was putting off the wrong pheromone cocktail and started smelling like a dude in my friend's lizard brain.

 

Also, don't overlook the body type and alignment issues that also indicate playersexuality. Apart from not taking off Vette's collar, there is absolutely no decision in the game that your PC can make that will make your companions unwilling to bang you. That's a hell of a lot less realistic than a large number of bi characters. (Particularly since we don't know the distribution of sexuality among aliens.)

 

I agree with the smell thing. I find my husband's smell, especially after using Axe to be a HUGE turn on. I'm talking DAMN HE'S SEXY! But have some other random dude I'm not attracted to physically or mentally wearing the same axe with that guy's own body smell and it does nothing but go 'say that axe fragrence is okay'

[Eanelinea]

You're way out of line, your raging homophobia isn't welcome; plus Disney disagrees with you, so there.

 

Totally call anyone against it a homophobe you ignorant people are pathetic. Why waste time and effort adding something a minority will use instead of fixing and adding things to keep the game going. I don't want some gay companion who sounds more like a woman than a woman, it's annoying as hell.

 

Cytharat was completely gay and he didn't sound 'like a woman'. In fact, he was quite manly sounding. But ya know, stereotypes.

[Diviciacus]

I figured someone necroed the thread to get it back on the front page.

 

To be honest, I much prefer this juggernaut of a thread be where people discuss SGR stuff, rather than the one some fool started while this one was still two posts from top on the front page.

 

Even if no one seriously reads all 423 pages.

[ReiKai]

To be honest, I much prefer this juggernaut of a thread be where people discuss SGR stuff, rather than the one some fool started while this one was still two posts from top on the front page.

 

Even if no one seriously reads all 423 pages.

 

423 pages? I think you missed the half-dozen times this thread was rebooted because of its length. I think in the last couple of years, we're actually in a combined rating of over 5000 pages. At least that's my estimate. Anyway, right now I don't think there is very much to discuss. People have high hopes for KotFE to give us some real SGR and it's clear we can have that with Lana Beniko as a companion. Assuming you don't kill her off or tell her to go away. So until KotFE hits in August, there isn't much to bring up. Other than we're getting Togruta as a race on Tuesday the 21st. But that's another subject matter.