Defensive Cooldown for Sorcerer/Sage

[Ghost_Spectre]

Yes its great being able to free cast at 1.3s but that ISNT going to happen. The moment any melee leap to you you are screwed. You cannot do much of anything vs them. I would much rather be able to move and have it instant cast (not intterruptable) than have a 1.3s cast time. Just remember what it was like for snipers before I think 1.2? When ALL sniper attacks were interruptable. The class was a joke. It was absolutely no threat whatsoever to any melee. This is what its like for a lightning sorc right now. It is also the same for a Merc.

 

You know what Jack? I does not matter. All of what we are saying about the Sorcerers/Sages falls on deaf ears. BW does not give one flying frack about the classes they screwed over at 1.2. All these defenders of the status quo do not care about the Sorcerer/Sage class. They want things to stay the same so they get theirs and we don't.

 

Such is life. It is what it is. Nothing will change. If BW does buff the Sorcerer/Sage classes it will be meaningless. If they give these classes something meaningful, all those defending the status quo will QQ about them being OP. It is a never ending cycle. All their QQing got us screwed in the first place.

 

Arguing for a buff in defense and major burst damage is a waste of time. BW will never do it because they don't want to piss off and alienate their crop of "Professional PvPers." BW caters to those people and willfully alienates the casual PvPers. The rest of us can be damned for all the BW cares. If that wasn't the case, the godlike nerf of 1.2 would never have happened.

[NoTomorrow]

Jeeez, are you trying to say that Sorcerer pre 1.2 was not overpowered?

[AdmiralParmesan]

Read above, if you can freecast at 1.3s, you are better without instacas with 1,5gcd, better to give more options than enforce a perma instacast.

 

you would need more alacrity than reasonable to get lightning strike down to a 1.3 second cast currently I run 267 alacrity and 267 surge and my lightning strike cast is only 1.4 seconds. If they made it instant cast yes is would lower damage but it would make it possible to buff the damage of attacks like thundering blast without harming pve balancing.

[criminalheretic]

Honestly I would be happy if 'Egress' was available to DPS specs.

[NoTomorrow]

Honestly I would be happy if 'Egress' was available to DPS specs.

 

no. no. no. No root immunity / cleanse for non healer.

[Washingtoon]

Jeeez, are you trying to say that Sorcerer pre 1.2 was not overpowered?

In comparison to operative healers, the ease of getting big numbers on a PT or rage specs I'd have to say yes. Don't know if people were more civilized a year ago but when I went back to compare sorc complaints to the complaints we see 20 times per day now I saw much less of it. And this was during a time when the population was 5 times bigger. One would think that the forum would be filled by repeat topics if it was such a big issue.

 

My opinion was that it, in relation to the light armor, was balanced. There's nothing balanced with having an array of defensive cooldowns AND 2-3 abilties that hit for more than the hardest hitting ability of other AC'es.

Edited January 24, 2013 by Washingtoon

[L-RANDLE]

Jeeez, are you trying to say that Sorcerer pre 1.2 was not overpowered?

 

DPS? On the scoreboard, yes we were OP'd, but.....It was filler AoE/DoTs, as it still is today... The only requirement was cooperative opponents that bunch together and allowed freecasting.

 

 

Sage/Sorc DPS has never been on the level of other DPS specs. AoE made it look better than it actually was. The Proc nerf along with the Relic/Adrenal nerf killed the DPS specs...

 

 

While a DFCD, that you can spec into (no healers allowed) would be good, the main issue is the TK/Lite tree needs more burst off of instant attacks and the Bal/Mad tree needs another low tier root and stronger returns on mitigation and healing (procs off DoTs)skills. Then I might consider the "Balance" tree actually balanced.

Edited January 24, 2013 by L-RANDLE

[Ghost_Spectre]

Jeeez, are you trying to say that Sorcerer pre 1.2 was not overpowered?

 

Is that what you think? Did I say that? Or it is what you believe? Either way you are dead wrong. Was there a nerf needed? Sure. However, not to the extent that rendered the Sorcerer/Sage near uselessness. Now, 4 patches later, these same classes struggle to do anything useful in a WZ. They are the joke of the game now in PvP. You want an easy 5k medal? Kill a Sorcerer/Sage. You want to get multiple medals? Kill all the Sorcerers/Sages you can fine. They cannot kill you by themselves, not without help and that are few and far between now.

 

What we, those that are advocating defensive measures and buffs to have single burst type attack damage want, is to see the Sorcerers/Sages brought into line with everyone else. You on the other hand, like the other 'defenders of the status quo' want to keep it exactly the way it is. How about this, no Sages or Sorcerers show up in any more Warzones? That these ACs just refuse to participate anymore until such time that BW gets off their collective asses and does something that will bring these classes in line with every other class. I think that would be an extreme measure, but it would be effective to get something to happen. But should all those who play these classes do such a thing, you and the other 'defenders of the status quo' would ***** and moan about having now Sorcerer/Healer in a Warzone. We are either damned if we do or damned if we do not.

 

It would behoove you and the rest to actually listen to our suggestions and complaints of lack of survivability, damage mitigation, and defensive cool downs, and no burst damage and help us convince BW to fix the problem. No, instead you want to exacerbate the problems on the boards by calling us Noobs, L2P, demean us as QQers, and insult our intelligence. Enough is enough. Either help us or get the **** out of the way so we can get something positive from BW to fix the huge imbalance that exists between the Sorcerer/Sage and the rest of the ACs in the Warzones.

[criminalheretic]

no. no. no. No root immunity / cleanse for non healer.

 

Yes yes yes. Force speed isn't much of a defensive ability, if I have to use an entirely separate ability to make sure it works, such as stunning someone just to make sure they don't root me when I try to run away. The class's entire survival strategy is to run away, they should at least be able to run away effectively.

 

And all Sages have a cleanse, healers can just spec it to remove physical effects and heal a bit.

[Xerain]

You mean the Chain-Lightning attack that did half the damage of the current Rage-Smash?

 

Critical Hits on Wrath-CL ranged from 3.5-4.0K Damage; in nearly full War Hero gear and 1288 Expertise I am taking 6.8-7.2K Smashes in Warzones, as of last night.

 

And why did Sorcs use Chain Lightning on Wrath?

 

Because the AC lacked a single-target damager that could provide any burst, so we were FORCED to.

 

In short, Sorcs should not have an instant AoE burst ability, however Marauders are just fine with a more powerful one.

 

Your responses lack a certain degree of intellectual honesty. Your goal is not balance.

 

I guess every marauder plays smash huh? And my point of that post is that you were 2 button scrubs and were still bad back then, it was just FOTM and you thought you were gods like most of the smash monkies today who couldn't cut it with a real spec.

[SharpG]

I'm telling you people, removing interrupts from all leaps would be an excellent start to helping ranged classes relying on cast times. Interrupts on leaps are excessive and unnecessary, especially when some classes are able to spec into 6 second interrupts. It might not be some mega buff that people think these classes need but its definitely something that would improve casting class gameplay without really effecting other aspects of the game significantly. Commandos and sages are both excellent DPS in PvE, the only reason they struggle so much in PvP is due to heavy reliance on cast bars and getting interrupted so frequently with leaps. Edited January 24, 2013 by SharpG

[AdamLKvist]

I guess every marauder plays smash huh? And my point of that post is that you were 2 button scrubs and were still bad back then, it was just FOTM and you thought you were gods like most of the smash monkies today who couldn't cut it with a real spec.

 

What we lack in abilities to use (PS. The actual thing we're complaining about) we more than make up in being able to kite fools like yourselves that think that your success in warzones have anything to do with your skill. You're being carried by your class, crawl back to underneath the rock from whence you came!

[AdamLKvist]

I'm telling you people, removing interrupts from all leaps would be an excellent start to helping ranged classes relying on cast times. Interrupts on leaps are excessive and unnecessary, especially when some classes are able to spec into 6 second interrupts. It might not be some mega buff that people think these classes need but its definitely something that would improve casting class gameplay without really effecting other aspects of the game significantly. Commandos and sages are both excellent DPS in PvE, the only reason they struggle so much in PvP is due to heavy reliance on cast bars and getting interrupted so frequently with leaps.

 

This is true. Interrupts on leaps makes absolutely no sense.

[Xerain]

What we lack in abilities to use (PS. The actual thing we're complaining about) we more than make up in being able to kite fools like yourselves that think that your success in warzones have anything to do with your skill. You're being carried by your class, crawl back to underneath the rock from whence you came!

 

See so you can kite then and do have mobility! One of you admits it but still continues to cry! Whats your excuse for playing the sorc pre-nerf then? You were just oh so good at the game and no one could compare to you right?

 

And as I said in a previous post. Been playing this class longer than most of you have been playing this MMO.

 

 

Also people do roll the FOTM class to have the upper hand whether they like the class or not, you get plenty of those douche bags around.

[AdamLKvist]

See so you can kite then and do have mobility! One of you admits it but still continues to cry! Whats your excuse for playing the sorc pre-nerf then? You were just oh so good at the game and no one could compare to you right?

 

And as I said in a previous post. Been playing this class longer than most of you have been playing this MMO.

 

 

Also people do roll the FOTM class to have the upper hand whether they like the class or not, you get plenty of those douche bags around.

 

We can kite if we do it to perfection - how does it matter? The maximal reward for our kiting is pissing you off - because we sure as hell can't do **** when kiting. Other than, well, kite.

 

As to answer your second and third point - you fill those two criterias just fine on your own. You're not needed nor wanted in this "discussion" because you're adding nothing than spite. You're clueless as to how the game works. Most probable cause would be that you realized you lucked out when you picked class and didn't bother playing anything else.

[Xerain]

We can kite if we do it to perfection - how does it matter? The maximal reward for our kiting is pissing you off - because we sure as hell can't do **** when kiting. Other than, well, kite.

 

As to answer your second and third point - you fill those two criterias just fine on your own. You're not needed nor wanted in this "discussion" because you're adding nothing than spite. You're clueless as to how the game works. Most probable cause would be that you realized you lucked out when you picked class and didn't bother playing anything else.

 

You do know kiting does not equal running away right? And of you're going to do what? Shock, keep your slow up, IDK maybe lightning when you get to a safe range so you can get procs, use your hard cc's, use knock backs, force speed away, heal if you can? Yup those are things you should probably do while kiting. YOu don't get to keep doing massive damage, have ranged, and mobility. Someone already said pick 2/3 of those.

 

And no, a good melee doesn't run after a stupid person trying to kite, you run away LOS and range them.

 

Lucked out? You know how many times guildies told me to reroll sorc cause it could do everything better back before they got nerfed? Do you know how many of them I beat the crap out of in duels and when i went against them in pvp? All of them that played a sorc.

[Ghost_Spectre]

See so you can kite then and do have mobility! One of you admits it but still continues to cry! Whats your excuse for playing the sorc pre-nerf then? You were just oh so good at the game and no one could compare to you right?

 

For someone that's been playing longer than any us have been associated with this game, you sure don't know jack about using a Sorcerer/Sage in combat. Our kiting ability Mr. Know-it-All, is nearly a moot point when someone like you can close the distance in an instant and interrupt our casting. We cannot escape because of your rooting ability when we try. It's obvious to me that you only want to keep things the way they are so you can use your 3-button insta-crit-kill smash to rape all Sorcerers/Sages for comms. You of all people, have no *********** right to *****, moan, or complain. The Marauder/Sentinels have the best defensive set of all the ACs. I know I have a Marauder. So don't you try to preach to us about L2P or degrade our intelligence with bovine excrement you call a post. If you don't have something constructive to add to this discussion, then please...****.

[Xerain]

For someone that's been playing longer than any us have been associated with this game, you sure don't know jack about using a Sorcerer/Sage in combat. Our kiting ability Mr. Know-it-All, is nearly a moot point when someone like you can close the distance in an instant and interrupt our casting. We cannot escape because of your rooting ability when we try. It's obvious to me that you only want to keep things the way they are so you can use your 3-button insta-crit-kill smash to rape all Sorcerers/Sages for comms. You of all people, have no *********** right to *****, moan, or complain. The Marauder/Sentinels have the best defensive set of all the ACs. I know I have a Marauder. So don't you try to preach to us about L2P or degrade our intelligence with bovine excrement you call a post. If you don't have something constructive to add to this discussion, then please...****.

 

No ones complaining on my end, i'm telling you to stop complaining.

[AdamLKvist]

You do know kiting does not equal running away right? And of you're going to do what? Shock, keep your slow up, IDK maybe lightning when you get to a safe range so you can get procs, use your hard cc's, use knock backs, force speed away, heal if you can? Yup those are things you should probably do while kiting. YOu don't get to keep doing massive damage, have ranged, and mobility. Someone already said pick 2/3 of those.

 

And no, a good melee doesn't run after a stupid person trying to kite, you run away LOS and range them.

 

Lucked out? You know how many times guildies told me to reroll sorc cause it could do everything better back before they got nerfed? Do you know how many of them I beat the crap out of in duels and when i went against them in pvp? All of them that played a sorc.

 

Lets begin by answering (a clueless) first point.

 

• - In your argument you're using the phrase "I don't know". And oh yeah, trust me, you don't know.
  
• - While on the move we have shock/project that will hit high only on other sorc/sages, and also FiB/DF if specced for it (OBS. a Kite heavy class should not have to spec for its "on the move" damaging abilities.)
  
• -If you're, in a serious manner, saying that while kiting we should be able to heal whilst still claiming that healing under such circumstances wouldn't be running, well hate to break it to you - wrong again. That's exactly what it is, run for cover. Heal. /Fingers crossed that melee will not chase you again so you can actually get to cast some abilities.
  

 

A good melee won't let it get as far as to let us run away. You have as many tools or more to maintain distance, control and overcome all that we throw at you. And even if a good melee would just stop (I'm humouring you because you're wrong - sorc/sage are number one targets and will be hunted down until they're extinct.) the encounter is still to the melees advantage because what he did was force a ranged player to abandon the battlefield and thus leaving his team short one player.

 

Which in the end means that range in this game is not an advantage - if that would be the case your leap would only work from 20m. As it does not, we have no "maximum range zone" to kite you in - we only have the hope that your CDs are on cooldown.

 

I can't believe how you dare finish off your post saying you "pwned", "destroyed", "humiliated" etc the sorc players you fought - it only strenghtens our point. Of course you did! Your class was never weak, it was underestimated because players such as yourselves took a damn good while to learn how to play while also quite gear dependent. Sorc/Sages have been suffering from the same issues we are now since the launch of this game wheraes your class has only had its "FotM" specs moved around slightly during each and every class "rebalance" (laughable word).

 

You are carried by your class, you are the definition of what you say sorc/sages were back then. You think you're amazing, you think we need to learn to play. In the end 90% or more of all the sorc/sages believe we need something to become competitive while you and the likes of you refuse to there's something to it.

 

Better hold on to that fake sense of entitlement everytime you crit a sorc/sage (in any spec) for 4-8k. Its all you man. No really, all you!

[Xerain]

Well i can chase after you and have to wait till my gap closer comes up I can easily just turn to someone else and destroy them instead :| Why waste time chasing you? And let others do damage when you're doing 0 cause you're too busy running away?

 

Oh just because you play against tunnel visioning bads... gj.

[AdamLKvist]

Well i can chase after you and have to wait till my gap closer comes up I can easily just turn to someone else and destroy them instead :| Why waste time chasing you? And let others do damage when you're doing 0 cause you're too busy running away?

 

Oh just because you play against tunnel visioning bads... gj.

 

You're only verifying my point...

[Xerain]

You're only verifying my point...

 

What point? that you get beat up by bads and then come to the forums to cry?

[NoTomorrow]

Is that what you think? Did I say that? Or it is what you believe? Either way you are dead wrong. Was there a nerf needed? Sure. However, not to the extent that rendered the Sorcerer/Sage near uselessness. Now, 4 patches later, these same classes struggle to do anything useful in a WZ. They are the joke of the game now in PvP. You want an easy 5k medal? Kill a Sorcerer/Sage. You want to get multiple medals? Kill all the Sorcerers/Sages you can fine. They cannot kill you by themselves, not without help and that are few and far between now.

 

What we, those that are advocating defensive measures and buffs to have single burst type attack damage want, is to see the Sorcerers/Sages brought into line with everyone else. You on the other hand, like the other 'defenders of the status quo' want to keep it exactly the way it is. How about this, no Sages or Sorcerers show up in any more Warzones? That these ACs just refuse to participate anymore until such time that BW gets off their collective asses and does something that will bring these classes in line with every other class. I think that would be an extreme measure, but it would be effective to get something to happen. But should all those who play these classes do such a thing, you and the other 'defenders of the status quo' would ***** and moan about having now Sorcerer/Healer in a Warzone. We are either damned if we do or damned if we do not.

 

It would behoove you and the rest to actually listen to our suggestions and complaints of lack of survivability, damage mitigation, and defensive cool downs, and no burst damage and help us convince BW to fix the problem. No, instead you want to exacerbate the problems on the boards by calling us Noobs, L2P, demean us as QQers, and insult our intelligence. Enough is enough. Either help us or get the **** out of the way so we can get something positive from BW to fix the huge imbalance that exists between the Sorcerer/Sage and the rest of the ACs in the Warzones.

 

Jeeeez Man.. the life is sad as it is, no need to make it even more dramatic. Your post is so damn depressing. I would share my sniper with you if I could.

Edited January 24, 2013 by NoTomorrow

[Ghost_Spectre]

No ones complaining on my end, i'm telling you to stop complaining.

 

Hell no, I will continue to complain until such time BW fixes the problem. I hope it becomes so bad that you refuse to post on these boards because all you see is complaints about how f'd up the Sorcerer/Sages are. You don't like it? Tough, don't post. You sir, are the epitome of limited intelligence. Since you are incapable of offering any solutions to the existing problems and lack the higher cerebral functions to have a constructive discussion, I'll not bother engaging you any further. Go back to lolsmashing your way through a warzone smash monkey.

[Monterone]

Thanks guy, I rolled mara back when sorc was the class you had to play. You know those beta days where most those kids were all looking for the best class and it happened to be sorc. I have a screen of me going against 8 sorcs in a huttball a year ago, most fun I've had dominating that class.

 

 

Pro-Tip: Marauder has always beat the crap out of sorc, from the time I played beta, till this day. Your class was over hyped by a long shot, all specs.

 

 

Couldn't be more true, and this is what we sorcs have been saying since beta. You have no idea how many times I've abandoned my sorc to play other classes, fed up, but for some reason I keep trying it again and again hoping for some love patch after patch. The only reason why I have an Assassin, PT, Gunslinger, Guardian, Operative and a Marauder is because the sorc fails compared to them. I can bubble heal now, but dps is still extremely weak compared to what I'm capable of doing with other classes.

 

And all you folks knocking sorcs need to understand this, this is how simple it is -- ALL us sorcs have other classes, we are pretty much forced to have an alt. And most of us are here because we are not retarded and we can see the difference when playing other classes. I can perform better with every class I listed with the same amount of work as I input on the sorc. Do I perform well on the sorc? Ask some folks on my server... but do I perform better on my alts? Without doubt.

 

I WANT to play my sorc, but why should I if I can do it easier with another class with half the headache?

 

And the only reason you saw so many sorcs back in the beginning is because of Star Wars lore, they were never OP and the only major difference between sorcs back then and now is that chain lightning doesn't work off of a madness proc any more, and even then I played PvP in full 31 point madness.

 

Xerain, you have no idea how much I agree with you that sorcs have ALWAYS been broken, and were an easy match for a marauder even a year ago. Thanks for your support, I agree that this is far from a learn to play issue for a lot of sorcs, the class has been broken since beta.

 

P.S. And for snipers comparing Marksmanship with Madness... really?