PLEASE add a 800 expertise minimum in 50s PvP.

[Diagorias]

Of course you're going to get killed faster in recruit gear. It's armor rating is horrible compared to pretty much all other 50 gear. What's more important is your damage. Did you take a picture of the dps you put out in your experiment with your dps set? I guarantee you it was lower than your recruit (unless you were guarding a node or something while in your recruit). I've never seen anyone with 0 expertise get more than 50k dps or so. And if someone is spec'd dps and doing that little damage, they're pretty much useless unless they're a tank (and to a lesser extent a healer).

 

Edit: The fact that you last longer in high grade PvE gear is why expertise isn't as big a deal for a tank. No offense, but when you say you took 3 or 4 guys with you in your PvE gear, I highly doubt you killed 3-4 people in your PvE gear before you got killed yourself without any heals. Can't even do that in good PvP gear (assuming absolutely no heals and no self-heals).

 

Well then you have seen it obviously wrong, since when I started PvPing with my vanguard again, fully augmented BH+ gear, I came out as second in the first match, and even first in the third match, in the first match also someone whined about the PvE gear, but he quickly became quiet after seeing that I outdpsed nearly everyone.

And like some have mentioned it is more than just DPSing (or healing) in PvP, what about interrupting, taunting, defending the healers, attack their healers and so on? If someone with EWH gear just simply keeps atttacking the first person he/she sees and don't even stays close to an objective, what's the use of the gear then?

[Arkerus]

How about then you can't queue for fp's or do any ops while having more then 200 expertise. I'm sick of pvpers saying their pvp gear is as good or better then then lessor level pve gear. If your to lazy to gear pve gear you shouldn't be able to queue for pve stuff....

 

However on another note when you compare full recruit lets say vs full black hole if checked the BH gear would probably come out ahead. Yes expertise lowers damage take but armor on BH gear is a lot more. expertise increases healing done but so does pve gear thats a higher level. More damage done in black hole vs lower end gear also.

 

However people need to realize this is NOT as much as you want it a PvP game. Its a PvE game and PvP is just a small side game as much as you may love it. PvE is the name of the game. PvP will never ever be a major focus of any sort in sw:tor. If your all about PvP best to find a game designed around that but swtor simply is not that.

 

Lastly the better fix would be to queue 50 pvp through a expertise / gear check. If your in recruit your stuck with those in recruit - 2/3 WH. If your in full WH its WH-EWH. However would need to once queued lock whatever gear you currently have on and not allow it to be changed until drop the queue or finished with the WZ. This would be to prevent people from queueing in recruit gear just to change to EWH later just so they slaughter all.

 

 

Except that your wrong. Expertise has a greater impact in PvP that's its detrimental impact to PvE. Someone in WH PvP gear can shred any FP HM and HM of any of the operations. Maybe not Nightmare but HM for sure.

 

However, that's doesnt mean I agree with the OP. No one should be locked out of PvP. Rated is for creating specific teams and being ranked. PUG WZs should be open to everyone.

Edited January 21, 2013 by Arkerus

[LadyVix]

And the highlighted piece is the problem, the way expertise is presented to people in this game makes them thinks it's a godly stat and must be maxed out instantly. The fact is you should be no-where near max exp even with fully modded WH gear. You just want the exp to bolster your pvp base damage/defense/heal to be on the same page as other PVP'ers and then focus on your base stats for optimal results.

 

Well, I've been playing SWTOR for almost 2 months, hit 50 on that character 2 1/2 weeks ago, and was focusing on simply getting decent WH/EWH gear. I haven't focused on expertise, 1390 is simply what the default expertise stats are on the base WH/EWH gear I've earned to date. Is there room for improvement on my stats? Absolutely, however maxing out gear is stupidly expensive and simply takes time. (especially if one isn't in a guild) She's not perfect, but I can still occasionally top the chart in kills. (Not bad, IMO, for a 65 year old physically disabled grandmother of six)

[SNCommand]

From personal experience I would say expertise does play an important factor in PvP, the guy with over 800 expertise, even when it's just recruit gear will make life difficult for any player

[Arkerus]

There is nothing hugely broken about just wearing the pieces the way they are. You're fine to just buy and wear them as is. A very small % of people actually take the time to farm extra pieces and min/max.

 

 

Anyone who tells you different is exaggerating the benefit. Yes they might squeeze some more power out of their armor but it comes down to fractions of a difference. A good player will always win against a bad player anyway.

[Kilikaa]

The separation of PVP and PVE, server- & gear-wise, is total non-sense in an mmo!

It is a "lame" game mechanic to let the players grind, spending valuable time to gear up instead of having fun!

The reason is simple...lack of content!

 

In SWG (r.i.p.) that kind of separation was not necessary to create awesome pvp and pve action (in the same gear---what is the point of different gear??? oh i forgot, see above, lack of content).

Sandbox rules!

 

I completely and wholeheartedly agree! Expertise has got to go. Separation of content is a weak and lame mechanic. They can keep the grind in a way, but pvp and pve gear should be equal in stats. Pvp'ers will grind out gear through pvp, and the same goes for pve'ers. Besides, why do players need bonuses to fight other players? Simple answer...THEY DON'T!

 

Instead of asking for a minimum requirement, we all should be asking for complete removal of expertise.

 

[Arkerus]

I completely and wholeheartedly agree! Expertise has got to go. Separation of content is a weak and lame mechanic. They can keep the grind in a way, but pvp and pve gear should be equal in stats. Pvp'ers will grind out gear through pvp, and the same goes for pve'ers. Besides, why do players need bonuses to fight other players? Simple answer...THEY DON'T!

 

Instead of asking for a minimum requirement, we all should be asking for complete removal of expertise.

 

 

They are separated for two good reasons.

 

 

If PvE provides superior rewards faster, then PvP players get stomped into the ground by PvE gear.

 

If PvP provides gear that is better and easier to obtain than PvE gear, then all the PvE players whine and complain because the PvP gear is easier to get.

[Neoforcer]

From personal experience I would say expertise does play an important factor in PvP, the guy with over 800 expertise, even when it's just recruit gear will make life difficult for any player

 

Not in my warzone that guy is dead real fast why when I am coming to a node to take it i take the time and see who has the smallest hp pools and i kill him first. There a big target on the recruit gear persons head and i play with viciousness when it come to pvp. When we run my guild rated against guildies I been told by the raid leader to cool it because of that. Hell once had a person delete there 90 level toon in swg and join the other faction because i killed him 8 times in one attempt for there faction to take restuss. He later ended up in my guild and said i hate you to which we became friends lol. He later kicked him self in the pants when he found out he could switch faction lol

[LoneRegulator]

Well then you have seen it obviously wrong, since when I started PvPing with my vanguard again, fully augmented BH+ gear, I came out as second in the first match, and even first in the third match, in the first match also someone whined about the PvE gear, but he quickly became quiet after seeing that I outdpsed nearly everyone.

And like some have mentioned it is more than just DPSing (or healing) in PvP, what about interrupting, taunting, defending the healers, attack their healers and so on? If someone with EWH gear just simply keeps atttacking the first person he/she sees and don't even stays close to an objective, what's the use of the gear then?

 

I'd have to see how much damage you actually did. Regardless, you would have done more in, say, full WH.

 

Anyone can interrupt, taunting and defending healers are tank duty (one of the reasons I said expertise isn't as critical for a tank), attacking their healers is dps duty and is better with expertise - especially against healers who can heal faster than you can dps (more likely if you have low expertise).

 

I'm not saying you don't know what you're taking about, though it may come across that way. I'm just saying that 100% of the time I've seen someone with zero expertise in a match, and they weren't a tank, they were nearly useless to the team - little damage, little healing. If we get lucky they just guard a node and call incs.

[Kilikaa]

They are separated for two good reasons.

 

 

If PvE provides superior rewards faster, then PvP players get stomped into the ground by PvE gear.

 

If PvP provides gear that is better and easier to obtain than PvE gear, then all the PvE players whine and complain because the PvP gear is easier to get.

 

Pve and pvp gear should have equal stats at each tier. Niether type being superior to the other. Bioware can easily stop pve people from potential complaining by allowing players to trade in all planetary comms for BH comms at a 1-1 ratio. At level 50 those comms are useless anyway. Or instead of Tionese gear they can give out a free set of Columni or Rakata gear and remove Tionese. Then they can start working on BH/Camp/Dread gear. If they want to pvp then they can without worrying about their lack of expertise.

 

As an incentive pve gear can be given differant set bonuses than pvp gear. This will give the player a choice. Add the belt or bracers to the bonus, or even the weapon, and now people can mix bonuses. You can have a 2 piece from pvp with 4 piece pve. Maybe a 3-3. Or eve a 2 piece WH, 2 piece Camp and 2 piece Dread. Everybody is happy. Well, mostly everybody. Someone will always cry.

[Arkerus]

It doesn't matter what incentives you give, unless one group decides to stop complaining because they feel the other group gets gear easier, it won't be viable.

 

In a perfect world, I agree with. This world isn't perfect.

 

I see most suggestions to remove expertise come from the PvE crowd who can farm gear in a weeks time and be much further ahead than PvP folks.

[Neoforcer]

They are separated for two good reasons.

 

 

If PvE provides superior rewards faster, then PvP players get stomped into the ground by PvE gear.

 

If PvP provides gear that is better and easier to obtain than PvE gear, then all the PvE players whine and complain because the PvP gear is easier to get.

 

Agreed its there for a reason is pve players the reason you loose warzone possible but doubtful. Is the 4 player in recruit gear saying every one fails in here the reason. Yes i have to say that is highly possible. People that complain about pve players in war zone on my server are learning when they say that in party chat i strip off all my pvp gear and run naked just to prove a point stop complaining or i run naked. To which my friend say the same thing and take there pvp gear off it stops the i am carrying a pve crowd real quick like

Edited January 21, 2013 by Neoforcer

[AsheraII]

As far as I care, people can join a warzone in their underwear if they want to. I'm not going to throw them any heals when they do though, and I figure the enemy players will simply love him for the easy kill. But I really couldn't care less.

[Icebergy]

Honestly? I have tried both ways, I have tried both full PvP gear with something like 1200 expertise (can't remember the exact number) and my 63s tanking gear. The PvE gear works better.

 

I can't figure out why either, but I definitely live a lot longer in my tanking gear than my PvP gear, and for some reason it seems like I actually do more damage in my PvE tanking gear also.

[Petnil]

imo pvp shouldn´t have tiers at all. Problem fixed. pvp should be about skill and nothing else. pvp rewards could be something else. titles, mounts, armorshells, anything realy.

 

The wz should ignore all gear and add a fixed amount of stats. So nomatter if your in BiS raidgear or just dinged 50 and only have tioneese and greens you would have the same amount of stats when you enter the warzone.

[Jedi_Slayer]

So anyone that follows these threads closely knows that I am new to PVP, being PVE on my main for along while and sold off the free recruit gear long ago. SO I jumped into PVP will full BH Augmented Gear, I am a sawbones healer, so I am use to being mobile moving around using my cool downs and stuns, so maybe that is an advantage for me. But I do not just roll over and Die in 50pvp. I did jump in ever ytime for the first 10matches or so and just say hey noob in pvp gearing up. Only one person really got on me for the 0 EXP and you know what that match I lead the team in heals and got a couple MVP nods.

 

The extra hp and the stats let me hold my own, I followed L-Randal's suggestion and have started with the left side. With all that done I was hitting hi 200k low 300k an occasional 400 and topped out a 541k in my best match in heals.

 

Now I have taken and done 2 pieces of Gear, and my EXP is 951, my heals are consistently over 300k but I am not seeing the top end as much. I have only broken 400 once since then. I am prettys ure this is becasue it is making me sacrifice Cunning as I go. My cunning has dropped from 1800 down to 1711. Clearly there is a balance somewhere I feel like I may need to back down a little or just go for broke and go all the way.

 

I have to say some of the stats between EWH and WH make no sense. I can swap my boots and the mods swap alc for surge almost point for point with no endurance or exp gain. Just some minor gains in other areas.

Edited January 21, 2013 by Jedi_Slayer

[jgoldsack]

imo pvp shouldn´t have tiers at all. Problem fixed. pvp should be about skill and nothing else. pvp rewards could be something else. titles, mounts, armorshells, anything realy.

 

The wz should ignore all gear and add a fixed amount of stats. So nomatter if your in BiS raidgear or just dinged 50 and only have tioneese and greens you would have the same amount of stats when you enter the warzone.

 

imo pve should not have tiers at all. pve should all be about beating mechanics and the simple satisfaction of beating an encounter, nothing more. pve rewards could be something else. titles, mounts, armorshells, anything really.

 

The op should ignore all gear and add a fixed amount of stats. So nomatter if your in BiS raid gear or just dinged 50 and only have recruit pvp gear and greens you would have the same amount of stats when you enter the operation.

 

See what I did there? That is the stupidest argument ever. Both aspects of the game need to have valuable rewards, and in a gear based game, gear is that reward.

 

Bioware is flattening expertise so all pvp gear is equal ground for that.

 

If you want to raid, you need to get PvE gear to do serious raiding. If you wanna PvP, you get PvP gear to do serious PvP. Whichever way you go, you are required to grind out the gear to get to the top level.

[LordRahlik]

I have been a subscriber since day 1 but when I could exchange my token for 350k credits instead of PvP gear I did that. Now I am broke and have zero PvP gear on one of my chars. Does that mean that I am not allowed to play PvP according to you?

I have to either scramble 350k credits and spend it on pointless recruit gear or I have to live without PvP on that char?

 

Or?

[hiddenfearx]

I Queue as an Op Healer with 0-200 Expertise all the time, and I am the top healer 98% of the time with over 300 - 400k+ each match.... So, should I stop Queuing? Skill > Expertise.

[Merwanor]

PvP in games like this where you have gear that distinguish yourself from others in terms of strength, will always be a unbalanced game. It is impossible to balance a PvP system like this, it has never been done and I doubt it will ever be done. Having gear that distinguish yourself so much when it comes to power, is only there to fuel those who loves stomping weaker geared players. I is not skill or any challenge, when you can kill players even in starting pvp gear in under 10 seconds.

[Omisri]

Well ...

 

I was experimenting with pve and pvp gear although i had full WH kit. I ended up with 500 exp seing how much of a difference it would make as i think i was only losing around an extra 5 - 10% damage boost (i mean whats 10%?)

 

So anyway im plowing through people and see my 300k medal pop up within minutes until the other team ended up with the 3 cap. Mostly because their strategy was outmatching our mouthy little **** of a "leader". So i took the speeder back to mid (aldaraan) and noticed the "leader" slating my gear, how im a noob with hardly any pvp gear and that its my fault for the 3 cap. told to ****, leave etc.

 

So i pulled out all my pvp gear and sat in the corner refusing to carry on. The end of the match i ended up with top medals even though we lost and the so called leader with 4 and the rest of the team with almost identical.

 

Its always easy to judge someone on their gear or exp but you also need to be able actually get those pesky objectives. You can ninja a node wearing nothing but a smile, for example.

[Briljin]

They should be allowed to PvP in whatever gear they want, they just shouldn't be surprised when people leave the WZ. If they want to waste their time, fine but I am not going to let them waste mine.

[Cylnael]

Just make me happy.

 

The guy who invented the pvp system of swtor was fired and has gone in exiled disgraced for 13 generations ?

[jersyiii]

let ppl wear pve gear

the second i notice i put a mark on those ppl

those ppl are also the first to complain on these forums that smash crits to hard

 

makes my day evrytime when i see my smash crit for 9k on those ppl

[SithKoriandr]

Something that could be done is give sets two mod sets, that you can toggle between.

 

Really, you say people don't want to change into the ugly gear, and I don't blame them, especially if they paid real money to look the way they wanted to.

 

So two sets of mods per item and being able to toggle between them, would fix this. they can have PvE mods and PvP mods.