PLEASE add a 800 expertise minimum in 50s PvP.

[Darth-Rammstein]

I Queue as an Op Healer with 0-200 Expertise all the time, and I am the top healer 98% of the time with over 300 - 400k+ each match.... So, should I stop Queuing? Skill > Expertise.

 

Expertise is less of an issue for healers, try doing 300-400k damage as a dps in pve gear...also as a healer you could still benefit from some war hero gear to give you some expertise so enemy players can't land giant crits on you, plus the 2 piece set bonus of both is better than the 4 piece of pve. The fact you run wzs all the time with pve gear tells me you are one of those stabilizer farmers, very selfish....

Edited January 22, 2013 by Darth-Rammstein

[xorcist]

We all know what's happening.

 

There's always at least one stubborn guy with zero expertise who thinks he doesn't need PvP gear because he has Campaign or Black Hole gear.

 

It's beyond the point of simply not knowing about the Expertise mechanic in this game, people INTENTIONALLY queue up in PvE gear because they either want to farm Molecular Stabilizers or because they're too lazy to get PvP gear.

 

Yes, some even refuse to wear the FREE Recruit gear because ''i don't like the look of it'' or ''i have higher stats with pve gear'''. It always ends up with the people wearing PvP gear having to carry this individual because he or she simply doesn't care and your Vote to Kick only works for AFKers. The one with no expertise is always the weakest link.

 

I don't queue up for ops in level 40something greens, and if I do, I'll get kicked in no time. So why are we forced to put up with these killjoys in 50s PvP?

 

It may not be rated but most of us still queue up to win.

 

I have a very very simple solution. Remove all gear stats from Warzone matches. Now everyone is on equal footing no matter what you're wearing. No more handicaps like Expertise rating. Just skill versus skill. Crazy idea, I know...

[Arkerus]

I have a very very simple solution. Remove all gear stats from Warzone matches. Now everyone is on equal footing no matter what you're wearing. No more handicaps like Expertise rating. Just skill versus skill. Crazy idea, I know...

 

Remove gear stats from PvE. Now everyone is on equal footing and it all comes down to skill. Crazy, I know.

[Khevar]

If all someone has is Columi/Rakata, sure, get them to put on the Recruit set.

 

But that fellow in min/maxed Campaign/Dread Guard? You can't seriously think that Recruit gear is better than that in a warzone?

 

Let them wear their high-end PvE gear until they can start replacing it with War Hero. If they never start putting on WH/EWH, that is a different story. But it's ridiculous to demand people put on Recruit over 61/63 PvE gear.

 

If you don't believe it, try this (I've done this):

 

1. Get two players with the same A/C and spec, one in Recruit, and one in 61/63 PvE gear.

2. Decide on a simple rotation for each player to follow.

3. Engage in a duel.

4. Watch the Recruit geared player get eaten for breakfast.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Khevar

[Arkerus]

If all someone has is Columi/Rakata, sure, get them to put on the Recruit set.

 

But that fellow in min/maxed Campaign/Dread Guard? You can't seriously think that Recruit gear is better than that in a warzone?

 

Let them wear their high-end PvE gear until they can start replacing it with War Hero. If they never start putting on WH/EWH, that is a different story. But it's ridiculous to demand people put on Recruit over 61/63 PvE gear.

 

If you don't believe it, try this (I've done this):

 

1. Get two players with the same A/C and spec, one in Recruit, and one in 61/63 PvE gear.

2. Decide on a simple rotation for each player to follow.

3. Engage in a duel.

4. Watch the Recruit geared player get eaten for breakfast.

 

Generally, I agree and that's why I don't agree with the OP. Sure, recruit is great if you have nothing else. Otherwise take your NIM mode gear in. It's a way better starting point. Grab WH gear once you have enough comms. Mathematically you can't beat the expertise + WH stats.

 

 

Now, I DON'T agree with the removal of expertise. That's the defining stat in PvP and it helps reward those who PvP a lot. Sure, it hurts PvE players but I can't walk into nightmare mode with my PvP gear so it works both ways.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Arkerus

[tman_ac]

This is actually a funny thread.

 

My experience:

 

I am a really good PvE Watchman Sentinel. Never really cared about PvP cause all that grinding normal wz comms to change them to rwz comms is just out of my mind. I thought like that when there was BM and WH.

 

Now times have changed, the stats difference between WH and EWH isn't a lot, so you can basically farm a really good PvP set now with normal wz comms.

 

So yes, I started PvP some weeks ago. I had no PvP gear except of that weak recruit set while I am BiS geared for PvE. After dying like a headless chicken in wz's with recruit gear (it was always like this: you get focussed and smashed down in no time) I did a lot better in full 63 gear. Guess why? The 63 gear has more base armor, you have way way way more damage output and a lot more HP.

 

Recruit gear is the level of tionese gear. So yeh, if your best PvE gear is Tionese you should use that recruit PvP set. If you are BiS 63 you will obviously take the PvE set until you can change it part for part with WH gear.

 

My2cents

[jarjarloves]

We all know what's happening.

 

There's always at least one stubborn guy with zero expertise who thinks he doesn't need PvP gear because he has Campaign or Black Hole gear.

 

It's beyond the point of simply not knowing about the Expertise mechanic in this game, people INTENTIONALLY queue up in PvE gear because they either want to farm Molecular Stabilizers or because they're too lazy to get PvP gear.

 

Yes, some even refuse to wear the FREE Recruit gear because ''i don't like the look of it'' or ''i have higher stats with pve gear'''. It always ends up with the people wearing PvP gear having to carry this individual because he or she simply doesn't care and your Vote to Kick only works for AFKers. The one with no expertise is always the weakest link.

 

I don't queue up for ops in level 40something greens, and if I do, I'll get kicked in no time. So why are we forced to put up with these killjoys in 50s PvP?

 

It may not be rated but most of us still queue up to win.

 

no.

 

If you want to win at PVP all the time then queue with a group. Otherwise don't complain

[Smuglebunny]

I have no real data but on my server there was this healer( a sage) who would come into warzones with 27k HP and like 300 exp. He would get wrecked over and over. After a while I noticed that every warzone I queued with him everyone would suddenly leave, like even the replacements would see this guy and leave. So after a while I never saw him again. It seemed that everyone on our server refused to queue with the guy.

 

I do think that there is no need or reason for pvp gear to be separate and have exp. Just put on some recruit gear...so you dont have to hear the QQ. You will have War Hero in no time.

[Ceasaigh]

Please wear your high end PvE gear with zero expertise I so want my 10K smash.

 

You come into a WZ with zero expertise and I find you, you can bet your azz I'm putting a mark on you so everyone can get there 5K medal.

 

 

Simply put, you do not factor in a War Zone with zero expertise, I don't care if it's high end Dread Guard or Black Hole. You will roflstomped into the floor by people wearing PvP gear.

 

Thats why it's PvP gear.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Ceasaigh

[Khevar]

Please wear your high end PvE gear with zero expertise I so want my 10K smash.

 

You come into a WZ with zero expertise and I find you, you can bet your azz I'm putting a mark on you so everyone can get there 5K medal.

 

 

Simply put, you do not factor in a War Zone with zero expertise, I don't care if it's high end Dread Guard or Black Hole. You will roflstomped into the floor by people wearing PvP gear.

 

Thats why it's PvP gear.

Dude, you're going to roflstomp a player in Recruit, too.

 

If you think that that player in Recruit is going to do better than a player in optimized 61/63 gear, you're confused.

 

Nobody is saying don't bring PvP gear to a match. But if you're just starting, and you have a choice between Recruit or 61/63 PvE gear (as a gateway to getting WH/EWH) Recruit is going to get you killed faster.

 

If you don't believe it, put on Recruit and try dueling someone in your spec wearing end-game PvE gear. You're going to get smashed to bitty bits.

[Toweleeeie]

How about everyone has set stats? So the playing field is always even. Then you use comms to buy unique gear.

[xorcist]

Remove gear stats from PvE. Now everyone is on equal footing and it all comes down to skill. Crazy, I know.

 

Yes, because in PvE you are fighting other players in the instance and not attacking NPC Bosses, working as a team to progress to the next portion of the instance. Removing stats from gear for PvE like you say makes the NPC's feel like they are not being treated unfairly. This is why removing gear stats from PvE makes everyone on both sides happy. NPC's will no longer complain about handicaps.

/sarcasm.

 

I know you feel wronged somehow. But it is the only way to PvP right. It's the way it was done long before SWTOR or WoW. Everyone enjoyed themselves. No one felt like they were inadequate against another in a one on one. They would queue again and again, and not feel apprehensive about doing so. Because practice makes perfect. Not gear. Trust me. Adding handicaps (gear stats/Expertise) only creates unwanted borders. PvP Progression needs to take a different path, and not follow PvE's way.

Edited January 22, 2013 by xorcist

[TheBBP]

So, PVPers complain about the wait for the queues, but also want to limit who can queue?

[slafko]

LadyVix have to agree was in a civil war last night me and 3 other hard core full optimized pvpers we get the vocal 5 players who sit there say you guys fail from the same guild.

 

How did you manage to get nine people into a warzone? Also, why not use this?

[slafko]

I know you feel wronged somehow. But it is the only way to PvP right. It's the way it was done long before SWTOR or WoW. Everyone enjoyed themselves. No one felt like they were inadequate against another in a one on one. They would queue again and again, and not feel apprehensive about doing so. Because practice makes perfect. Not gear. Trust me. Adding handicaps (gear stats/Expertise) only creates unwanted borders. PvP Progression needs to take a different path, and not follow PvE's way.

 

I think that vertical progression is not needed anywhere, be it PvP or PvE. A player's skill should be the deciding factor, not the time he spent grinding better gear.

[Darth-Rammstein]

So, PVPers complain about the wait for the queues, but also want to limit who can queue?

 

If you get acouple of pve geared teammates you may as well just quit the match, games over before it began.

[Zataos]

How about then you can't queue for fp's or do any ops while having more then 200 expertise. I'm sick of pvpers saying their pvp gear is as good or better then then lessor level pve gear. If your to lazy to gear pve gear you shouldn't be able to queue for pve stuff....

 

However on another note when you compare full recruit lets say vs full black hole if checked the BH gear would probably come out ahead. Yes expertise lowers damage take but armor on BH gear is a lot more. expertise increases healing done but so does pve gear thats a higher level. More damage done in black hole vs lower end gear also.

 

However people need to realize this is NOT as much as you want it a PvP game. Its a PvE game and PvP is just a small side game as much as you may love it. PvE is the name of the game. PvP will never ever be a major focus of any sort in sw:tor. If your all about PvP best to find a game designed around that but swtor simply is not that.

 

Lastly the better fix would be to queue 50 pvp through a expertise / gear check. If your in recruit your stuck with those in recruit - 2/3 WH. If your in full WH its WH-EWH. However would need to once queued lock whatever gear you currently have on and not allow it to be changed until drop the queue or finished with the WZ. This would be to prevent people from queueing in recruit gear just to change to EWH later just so they slaughter all.

 

Go on any servers fleet and look at the PVP area, then look at the PVE area, you will find the PVE areas dead, also look here at the PVP vs the PVE forums, again you will see a much more active PVP community than PVE.

 

Playing against computers gets old quick, new PVE conntent is expensive and has a short shelf life, PVP content is more challenging and repeatable, you will see a shift in this game toward PVP because of this.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Zataos

[Master-Nala]

Go on any servers fleet and look at the PVP area, then look at the PVE area, you will find the PVE areas dead, also look here at the PVP vs the PVE forums, again you will see a much more active PVP community than PVE.

 

Both areas are packed

 

Playing against computers gets old quick, new PVE conntent is expensive and has a short shelf life, PVP content is more challenging and repeatable, you will see a shift in this game toward PVP because of this.

 

Actually both get old, which is why I do both. Players fall into the same kind of predictable strategies as computers do. The only question is whether the team you're fighting or playing with know how to play.

[Siorac]

Expertise is the bigest load of horse sh*t ever. This one stat determins who wins and who loses PvP matches, it forces casual PvPers out of PvP and whats worse after the recruit gear the only way to get it is to PvP against people already in PvP gear. Rather than stop people going into PvP without it the expertise stat should be scrapped and PvP gear be made equal to PvE gear of the same tier.

 

How lovely it would be, then, for new, "casual" PvPers to enter PvP in Tionese and face people in full Dread Guard.

 

Expertise is not the problem, major stat differences between Recruit and War Hero was but you really need just a little patience to get War Hero now, it's really cheap. And if you've been PvPing between level 40-50 you can have enough commendations saved up to buy half the WH set right away.

[bbare]

I think they should get rid of expertise all together.

[jgoldsack]

I think they should get rid of expertise all together.

 

All that will do is shift the problem from one thing to another. Now people who are max pve will rule the roost, unless they made PvP gear equal in stats to PvE gear, which will never happen since PvP gear is generally easier to obtain.

 

Which is why Expertise will stay... PvP gear is easy to obtain.

[DarthFamine]

Expertise needs to be scrapped. it's just that simple.

[jgoldsack]

Expertise needs to be scrapped. it's just that simple.

 

I will subscribe to that when I can go into NM mode Ops in my EWH gear. The argument for removing expertise is so the PvE players can jump into PvP without needing to have PvP gear, and still be able to roflstomp people in their PvE gear.

 

Again, PvP gear is EASY to acquire. After a week of PvP on a fresh level 50 I made, I was almost entirely set up in WH gear. And yes, during that time I got smashed fast and smashed hard. But it sure as hell didn't take long to get gear to where I can now not only survive, but I can dish it out now too.

[Master-Nala]

I will subscribe to that when I can go into NM mode Ops in my EWH gear. The argument for removing expertise is so the PvE players can jump into PvP without needing to have PvP gear, and still be able to roflstomp people in their PvE gear.

 

Again, PvP gear is EASY to acquire. After a week of PvP on a fresh level 50 I made, I was almost entirely set up in WH gear. And yes, during that time I got smashed fast and smashed hard. But it sure as hell didn't take long to get gear to where I can now not only survive, but I can dish it out now too.

 

That shifts the problem to the OP's concern. There is little reason for me to take off my Dread Guard gear or whatever. If I'm going to get rolled in Recruit gear anyway, might as well just wear whatever into Warzones.

 

If PvP gave Columni commendations and the daily gave BH coms then War zones would be comparable to running flash points. Rated war zones could give commendations that are equivalent to the best set gear at the time. Sure there will be an easiest means to earn your gear, but players don't feel shut out of one part of the game or the other.

[jgoldsack]

That shifts the problem to the OP's concern. There is little reason for me to take off my Dread Guard gear or whatever. If I'm going to get rolled in Recruit gear anyway, might as well just wear whatever into Warzones.

 

If PvP gave Columni commendations and the daily gave BH coms then War zones would be comparable to running flash points. Rated war zones could give commendations that are equivalent to the best set gear at the time. Sure there will be an easiest means to earn your gear, but players don't feel shut out of one part of the game or the other.

 

Personally, I don't mind someone in full Dread Guard in my pvp match. They usually do fairly decent.

 

I DO have an issue with people who come into my PvP with leveling blues and greens, partial tionese (with blues greens), when there is a free set of Recruit gear.

 

I actually would not be opposed to a system that allowed you to trade in WZ/RWZ comms for the appropriate level PvE equivalent, as you mentioned. I don't think that will ever happen tho.