Overpowered - Powertech Stream - 72-5 in RWZ's

[vimm]

Not the specs that I run.

 

What is this madness?!

[Siorac]

What is this madness?!

 

Now, now, he's always been a balanced poster.

[cycao]

What is this madness?!

 

I see what you did there.

[Megatfx]

The reason why powertech is not a problem for me is they can be shutdown. Are they good? Absolutely. Countering them requires you to understand the burst limitations they have. Because its single target burst guards and taunts are far more effective especially when you can see the big armored guy moving in and getting ready to burst. They are very much subject to slows and roots making them soft targets especially if they are closing. They do have a harder time managing heat than a marauder or juggie who seem to have access to a limitless supply of rage. They where more OP when they had more range as it was easier for them to setup and close, but since that nerf it got harder to play. They have to close and in that range melee range. It's not hard to get caught or be brought out of position from the rest of your team. I know many teams that will yank that attacker and push back the enemy healers and they cannot survive like a juggie, marauder, assassin who can escape far more easily from that very troubled and frequently occurring scenario.

 

They lack some of the control of other specs as well. I will say that a guarded, healed powertech will put a hurt on. However, my assassin with force shroud doesn't seem to be overly bothered and you can almost always see it coming.

 

Powertechs don't get shut down, we have all instant cast abilities for main attacks. The only way anyone is shutting me down is if I'm chain stunned (Which happens to every class btw) or I'm dead. Out of all my classes I'm the LEAST shut down of them all.

[Pysces]

But your AP is not going to put out the front ended burst and spike like they can now will it? Even if pyro pt was nerfed do you think AP would replace it? Probably not, after looking at the tree and going over it, def not. AP wouldn't replace pyro at all. If anything will replace pyro pt if/when it gets nerfed it will probably be deception sin.

 

Good God...I think you may be the proud owner of a learning disability. In my hypothetical proposal, AP would be getting the damage output increased thus being viable. Seriously man, learn to read, and pay attention to details!

[Kegparty]

Can one of you PYROs check this. I did this calculation in another thread about rail shot.

 

Roughly 1 in 2 crits if you count everything else in good pvp gear. I believe I am rounding up. Now we can get another rail shot with an upper cut if you are already spec to it.

 

Keep in mind you need:

 

To have someone on fire (not relativly hard)

15 sec cooldown

16 heat

single target

 

Now for the double proc rail shot:

You have a 45% from an upercutt to have a 60% chance that the next rail shot is free without a cooldown (that's a 45% for a 60%)

 

SO to calculate the percent of both events occurring I believe p=45%*60% = 27% for the free rail shot no cooldown

 

So as probability goes you can crit someone from 4k-7.5k (crit) (god i love recruit geared guys) and then hit them again after the uppercut. Chances are one of them will crit for the above numbers.If you fail its 2k-3k shots if I remember correctly.

 

Keep in mind I am waiting for lolsmash to change before I start playing my 50s again. I get too pissed off with 3 people on my team dropping instantly from 2 smashers with force leaps that interrupt casting.

 

OK TO SUM IT ALL UP

To do a double rail shot with a double crit

 

=50% (generous chance of crit) *50% (generous chance of crit2)*27% (of both working)

 

WOOHOOO 7% CHANCE on a single target..

 

Can anyone confirm this?

Edited January 21, 2013 by Kegparty

[Devilk]

Oh hey, here's a way to solve your PT problem, throw a mark on them? Focus them? They can take 1 person down while getting focused if that person doesn't have heals. In a 1v1 sure PT's have crazy burst, but the game should never ever be balanced around 1v1. In a team warzone, pyro powertechs have little to no survivability, when people get on me, I pray to the warzone god that a healer notices me and keeps me up.

[Xerain]

Good God...I think you may be the proud owner of a learning disability. In my hypothetical proposal, AP would be getting the damage output increased thus being viable. Seriously man, learn to read, and pay attention to details!

 

And how would they get the damage output and their spike increase while nerfing pyro too?! How would AP be buffed to do anything close to a RS>RP>RS all crits combo that does like 13k+ damage there while the dots are ticking huh? It won't because they don't have it in that spec.

[Mossesman]

"PT's go down quickly when you focus them" - So does every other non tank class in this game. Infact, take a 1v1 situation, say, a DPS Commando (Assault), vs a DPS Powertech, the Commando will go down ALOT faster, but at the same time do less damage than the Powertech.

[Pysces]

And how would they get the damage output and their spike increase while nerfing pyro too?! How would AP be buffed to do anything close to a RS>RP>RS all crits combo that does like 13k+ damage there while the dots are ticking huh? It won't because they don't have it in that spec.

 

Simple, the AP tree gets tweaked, and crit bonuses could be heightened for certain abilities to give it more burst. That's just one example. However, not too much burst, because I want to be balanced and not OP like everyone's cherished Pyro tree is.

[wetslampigduex]

Simple, the AP tree gets tweaked, and crit bonuses could be heightened for certain abilities to give it more burst. That's just one example. However, not too much burst, because I want to be balanced and not OP like everyone's cherished Pyro tree is.

 

Wake up and smell the Foldgers bud. Even If AP got some sort of buff it'd still stuck. Flamethrower isn't an ability you can bank on.

 

Also, why must you be the only fool with colored text? If you change that then maybe someone will listen to what your saying.

[Pysces]

Wake up and smell the Foldgers bud. Even If AP got some sort of buff it'd still stuck. Flamethrower isn't an ability you can bank on.

 

Also, why must you be the only fool with colored text? If you change that then maybe someone will listen to what your saying.

 

Flamethrower needs addressing, and it's been stated in other posts as well. Flamethrower is not the only source of AP's damage though. Flame burst and immolate hit well enough, but need to be amplified in damage. I keep going in circles it seems. The AP tree needs adjusting, in conclusion, to make it viable. As for the color? I never post in color in all my other posts, but went for it today, because it's appealing to the eye, why not. Uh oh...going orange now--watch out.

[Xerain]

Flamethrower needs addressing, and it's been stated in other posts as well. Flamethrower is not the only source of AP's damage though. Flame burst and immolate hit well enough, but need to be amplified in damage. I keep going in circles it seems. The AP tree needs adjusting, in conclusion, to make it viable. As for the color? I never post in color in all my other posts, but went for it today, because it's appealing to the eye, why not. Uh oh...going orange now--watch out.

 

BOO HOO HOO I want annihilation to be better for rated warzones and to be on par with carnage or smash for damage and utility!

 

AP even with damage buffed isn't going to be as good as pyro...

[Pysces]

BOO HOO HOO I want annihilation to be better for rated warzones and to be on par with carnage or smash for damage and utility!

 

AP even with damage buffed isn't going to be as good as pyro...

 

Yeah...it's vastly unreasonable and unfair of one to request that a paying subscriber isn't pigeon-holed into a style of playing they don't enjoy. Damn me...where's that crucifix I am to be hung on? Just because you're gazing through tunnel vision goggles, doesn't mean the community is or should be.

[Devilk]

Sustained vs. burst, burst is king in PvP, no matter how much you buff a sustained tree. Xerain you are arguing with someone who doesn't understand what burst is and why it's important in PvP. Edited January 21, 2013 by Devilk

[Xerain]

Sustained vs. burst, burst is king in PvP, no matter how much you buff a sustained tree. Xerain you are arguing with someone who doesn't understand what burst is and why it's important in PvP.

 

I've noticed hence why I keep talking about how good a pyro's burst and spike are what make the spec wanted.

[vermura]

Powertechs are fine. There defence sux, there damage is good. If you nerf their damage, then you then have a class which has no viable tree for pvp, average damage and sucky defence = may as well delete the class.

 

One logical change would be simply put explosive dart and thermal detenator back on the same cool down - whoever made that change had rocks in their head. Other then that, powertechs are fine.

[SOULCASTER]

Smash isn't used on competitive RWZ teams, it only works in ****** reg wz's where everyone is undergeared and uncoordinated.

 

Are you insane? I was just in a RWZ last weekend that had 5 smashers in it. yeah....5. Aside from that team, literally EVERY TEAM in rateds on Pot5 has at last 2 smashers, usually 3.

 

Group comps I see most often in RWZ on Pot5 are (insert the imperial counterparts):

- 2x Scoundrel Healers (or 1 scoundrel + 1 bubble stunner sage)

- 2x Smashers (Guardian/Sentinel mix)

- 1x Shadow

- 2x Vanguards

- Last spot = another smasher, or a Combat Spec Sentinel

 

90% of the RWZs are that comp above.

[Pysces]

Sustained vs. burst, burst is king in PvP, no matter how much you buff a sustained tree. Xerain you are arguing with someone who doesn't understand what burst is and why it's important in PvP.

 

Where in my previous posts have I implied burst go bye bye? I have never argued for sustained. I simply argued and suggested that AP gets tweaked for viability. What is wrong with you hard ons for Pyro? It's like you have this elitist, exclusive, super secret club of douchebags that want to reign supreme. Meanwhile, rational folks are being told to shut the **** up and not offer fair requests?

[Xerain]

Where in my previous posts have I implied burst go bye bye? I have never argued for sustained. I simply argued and suggested that AP gets tweaked for viability. What is wrong with you hard ons for Pyro? It's like you have this elitist, exclusive, super secret club of douchebags that want to reign supreme. Meanwhile, rational folks are being told to shut the **** up and not offer fair requests?

 

No one has a hard on for pyro, we're just telling you the sustained tree will never put up the burst pyro does. It's sustained damage vs burst. Burst in PvP is what wins. If you want to do what win sin pvp either 1. switch specs, or 2. switch classes. Sorry but even if you buffed the damage for AP it's not going to help it outshine another class that can burst better.

[Megatfx]

Are you insane? I was just in a RWZ last weekend that had 5 smashers in it. yeah....5. Aside from that team, literally EVERY TEAM in rateds on Pot5 has at last 2 smashers, usually 3.

 

Group comps I see most often in RWZ on Pot5 are (insert the imperial counterparts):

- 2x Scoundrel Healers (or 1 scoundrel + 1 bubble stunner sage)

- 2x Smashers (Guardian/Sentinel mix)

- 1x Shadow

- 2x Vanguards

- Last spot = another smasher, or a Combat Spec Sentinel

 

90% of the RWZs are that comp above.

 

Stream is backup.

 

P.S. Those are the teams that get rolled by the good teams.

[Pysces]

No one has a hard on for pyro, we're just telling you the sustained tree will never put up the burst pyro does. It's sustained damage vs burst. Burst in PvP is what wins. If you want to do what win sin pvp either 1. switch specs, or 2. switch classes. Sorry but even if you buffed the damage for AP it's not going to help it outshine another class that can burst better.

 

No, they really do. Also, you keep implying that a spec is impossible to change by a dev. I know how PVP works, I'm not new to MMO's, and I know that burst is king. However! It does not change the point and logic I presented that by tweaking a spec to make it viable--operative word being "viable"--it can then compete. This suggestion applies to other classes too for those with similar legitimate concerns! People shouldn't have to be pigeon-holed into a tree to compete.

 

Now, if you're trying to tell me it's not going to happen and deal with it, then sure, I get that, but it doesn't mean I shouldn't try to get attention from BW to address my legitimate request.

 

Edit: P.S: Remember when shield tech was considered viable (maybe you weren't playing back then), but then it was deemed OP? What happened? Oh, it got nerfed, and now it's horrible for PVP. Yes, a spec can change better or for worse how the dev sees fit.

Edited January 21, 2013 by Pysces

[Xerain]

No, they really do. Also, you keep implying that a spec is impossible to change by a dev. I know how PVP works, I'm not new to MMO's, and I know that burst is king. However! It does not change the point and logic I presented that by tweaking a spec to make it viable--operative word being "viable"--it can then compete. This suggestion applies to other classes too for those with similar legitimate concerns! People shouldn't have to be pigeon-holed into a tree to compete.

 

Now, if you're trying to tell me it's not going to happen and deal with it, then sure, I get that, but it doesn't mean I shouldn't try to get attention from BW to address my legitimate request.

 

Edit: P.S: Remember when shield tech was considered viable (maybe you weren't playing back then), but then it was deemed OP? What happened? Oh, it got nerfed, and now it's horrible for PVP. Yes, a spec can change better or for worse how the dev sees fit.

 

AP still won't put out the burst/spike that pyro does even if you buffed so of their damage. It's not all about the damage at the end of the match man. It's about damage effectiveness and spiking someone down. When you can light someone on fire, drop both nades onto them, then rail shot, rocket punch, rail shot, while both those nades go off and the dots are ticking you're killing someone. You're not going to do that with anything in AP.

 

 

And No I don't remember shield tech being op'ed. there was the hybrid spec that was popular but it still wasn't as good as pyro for burst and I knew plenty of pt's who were playing pyro because the stupid burst it put out a year ago.

Edited January 21, 2013 by Xerain

[Devilk]

Lol dude I really don't care if AP gets a buff, just in a PvP environment, sustained is not as good as burst, a sustained tree will never ever be taken over a burst tree, no matter how much it gets buffed! Burst is king dude, the ability to kill someone quicker than the others is KING.

[Pysces]

And No I don't remember shield tech being op'ed. there was the hybrid spec that was popular but it still wasn't as good as pyro for burst and I knew plenty of pt's who were playing pyro because the stupid burst it put out a year ago.

 

Well, it was considered OP and this was about a year ago, and it was sadly nerfed, and now it is no longer viable. Yes, burst is king, shut the **** up about burst being king, no one is disputing that people. But things that are considered OP are usually and hopefully addressed at some point in time, and Pyro is deemed just that by many. It's like you people only a play a certain way (whatever is OP and FOTM) to get empowerment through a cheap means of winning, rather than the actual the play style of a class.