Who's Hurting Me? Big Hitters

[NathanielStarr]

Well there is factual evidence that they are overpowered in PvP. It's been proven, reproven and proven again, but they say they aren't going to balance anything until the expansion. So I'm thinking this has to mean that Warriors especially Marauders/Sentinels get absolutely nothing f(not even talent points) or those last 5 levels and the other classes get some nice AOE reduction, another stun breaker, more defenses and 5 more talent points to play with.

 

Imagine that huge smasher getting another 5 points to play with in their talent trees. It can't happen.

[Nonnolol]

Biggest hit was a 7271 Smash.

88.5% of hits over 5k were either Smash or Force Sweep.

 

Bro, you can just dodge it!?

Edited January 22, 2013 by Nonnolol

[Sathid]

Well there is factual evidence that they are overpowered in PvP. It's been proven, reproven and proven again, but they say they aren't going to balance anything until the expansion. So I'm thinking this has to mean that Warriors especially Marauders/Sentinels get absolutely nothing f(not even talent points) or those last 5 levels and the other classes get some nice AOE reduction, another stun breaker, more defenses and 5 more talent points to play with.

 

Imagine that huge smasher getting another 5 points to play with in their talent trees. It can't happen.

 

Anything can happen,look at what they did to Scoundrels.

[AdmiralParmesan]

i think you've had it easy with snipers as well. On a bad day you can eat 5k Follotrhroughs, Takedowns as well. Anything dispatch/vicious throw can do, Takedown can do better.

 

 

 

Sorc madness is fine.

 

Sorc Madness is absolutely not fine. The kiting is there but any burst potential or force management is not.

[Boyana]

regardless i feel executes have no place in swtor pvp atm with the current balance

 

Agree.

 

 

 

Sorc madness is fine.

 

It is, indeed. It does not melt people in a couple of seconds.

 

 

In this thread: People don't realize that other big attacks are more than a single number

 

On top of that, I also think, people do not realize how damage is the real problem. It is just amazingly high for how much HP and defenses some classes have.

 

When you combine it all into one Warzone, it becomes a nightmare for bad (in my opinion-balanced) classes. We should not ask for them to buff some specs to to go with pair with Warrior's, assassin's damage. I would like them to balance those specs around these we consider as "fine".

What will happen if they buff, let say, Sorcs to hit as hard as warriors...? Healers will see 5 seconds of every game and tanks will be past tense (they already are). So, if we want dps race only, yeah, they should buff us all to hit 6-7k.

Sorry, but, 7k smash or dying in one stun, is just one big NO from me.

[Boyana]

As a pretty much min/max sage I can guarrantee you that I am frequently hit by min/max smashers on average around 6.5K without bloodthirst. With bloodthirst and wz adrenal this will go up to near 8k-8.5K on average. This is about 40% of a typical buffed hp of a sage in one hit (and pretty much everyone unlucky to sit in the area). A crit force scream is another 4k-4.5k on average so this brings us to 13K damage in one gcd. If so happens to be unfortunate and have 90% hp then you open an opportunity for dispatch. In a nutshell it is theoretically possible for a smasher to kill a sage in 3secs.

 

Same. Thing is, nobody wants to say or hear that. So many people will avoid to admit how easy they die just to preserve their, so called, reputation.

In my case, 5k smash is a good thing. I am lucky to go against a "new smasher warrior" since they will leap and smash. Those smart ones will first wait for bubble break and then hit with 6200-6900 smash. I am, SADLY, not joking.

[Wainamoinen]

Bro, you can just dodge it!?

 

Smash is a Force attack, Dodge is useless against it.

 

Even if you could react to an instant attack to cast something backwards in time before it happened, Dodge wouldn't help.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Wainamoinen

[CorbinCrawford]

Smash is a Force attack, Dodge is useless against it.

 

Even if you could react to an instant attack to cast something backwards in time before it happened, Dodge wouldn't help.

 

I think he meant by physically moving away, which 1v1 >may< sometimes work if they use the slowing move to build their stacks of singularity. In this case, and in 1v1, you could try to kite and, in doing so, be out of range for the smash. If they use stasis/choke though you can't dodge because the moment the channel ends they smash, and it is instant now right? That is to say the damage doesn't happen when they land like it used to, it happens right off the bat? I may be mistaken.

 

Irregardless, the majority of smashes I get is when I am fighting another person and the smasher is fighting another person and I just get caught up in the aoe of hurt. Or the smasher leaps to me, and some random player throws out some random aoe stun or mezz or root or snare in which case I cannot move anywhere (except the medbay with a 5.5-7.1k smash message)

 

Unless we stop marking healers for focus and start marking smashers for "keep 5m range at all times" people will continue to get hit by smash, directly and inadvertently.

[thegreebler]

just playing on my up and coming 30+ JK, its obvious that to play anything other than this spec/class is to beg to play as less than.

 

It is quite sad that the staff at bioware have allowed a pvp system that is rewarding to be totally dominated by;

 

unfair premades vs randoms

 

blatantly unbalanced pvp classes

 

I can roll in tank stance on my JK while dps spec, and still drop people like no other. Disgusting... and begging for nerf. Till then no reason to play as anything else, which on its own shows how horrible bioware has done at balancing classes.

[thegreebler]

put it this way - premade 4 smash juggs 2 healers, 2 ranged dps who can also taunt...

 

nothing gonna touch them, they are on teamspeak organizing their targets - instant death for the opposing team.

[PloGreen]

put it this way - premade 4 smash juggs 2 healers, 2 ranged dps who can also taunt...

 

nothing gonna touch them, they are on teamspeak organizing their targets - instant death for the opposing team.

 

Please don't derail this thread into more qq about premades. There's enough threads about that crap already.

[Bigronx]

put it this way - premade 4 smash juggs 2 healers, 2 ranged dps who can also taunt...

 

nothing gonna touch them, they are on teamspeak organizing their targets - instant death for the opposing team.

 

What does ranked have to do with this....most all ranked is min max group set up with team speak and its not instant death for the other team.

 

Unless you are talking about regular warzone which having 2 premade 4 man groups on the same team is very remote and that is more of a issue with that mechanic itself ccause 8 man premade will kill a reg pu 8 man random team setup anyway really not a topic for this thread thread.

Edited January 28, 2013 by Bigronx

[Ybini]

Here's a link to the top 50 damager's against me for reference as well.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=553413&page=3

[Technohic]

Here's a link to the top 50 damager's against me for reference as well.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=553413&page=3

 

I'm glad you at least got an ambush/aimed shot in there toward the top. I mean; it is refreshing to know that a single target ability hits "almost" as hard as an AoE.

[DarthOvertone]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=553413&page=3

 

I just started using SWMonitor a lot this weekend and my logs look similar to yours, except you can replace the instances of Smash with Force Sweep, and vice versa. All the high-end crits are coming from Smash/Force Sweep, and the frequency for these is very high as they are an easy auto-crit.

Edited January 29, 2013 by DarthOvertone

[Rincewend]

Would love to have a Dev say something about this.

[Technohic]

Would love to have a Dev say something about this.

 

They have said somewhere that they watch all these metrics closely, or along those lines. They just leave out the part that they are laughing their but off while they troll everyone in secret.

[Sydexlic]

I'd love to see data from a poll on current smash monkey plans for 1.7. One simple question in the poll.

 

"What fotm class will you be rerolling to when your current fotm scrub spec is nerfed into the ground in 1.7?"

[Ybini]

I'm glad you at least got an ambush/aimed shot in there toward the top. I mean; it is refreshing to know that a single target ability hits "almost" as hard as an AoE.

 

Yeah it would be cool if my freighter flyby did its damage instantly. I wonder what it'd hit for if it did?

[Aluvi]

Smash is without a doubt the hardest hitting thing in the game. However, the rest of the rotation is a bit lackluster number wise. True, A warrior can smash you for 5-6k and then hit you for 1.5-3k vicious slashes, but a Pyrotech PT will give you a 5k railshot, 4-5k rocket punch, another 5k railshot.. etc. In my experience PTs do more burst than a warrior, but it is over several abilities.

[PerinnAybara]

Smash is without a doubt the hardest hitting thing in the game. However, the rest of the rotation is a bit lackluster number wise. True, A warrior can smash you for 5-6k and then hit you for 1.5-3k vicious slashes, but a Pyrotech PT will give you a 5k railshot, 4-5k rocket punch, another 5k railshot.. etc. In my experience PTs do more burst than a warrior, but it is over several abilities.

 

Hrm, a warrior's single target damage, after smashing, is lackluster in comparison to the (Strongest single target class in the game) with one of the highest DPS metrics. Hrm.... this doesn't add up. Their single target damage in between smash is fine, especially when they fall into execute range. Not to mention you just quoted the max damage a pyrotech powertech pt can do, if they crit every single time at the max of their damage range, + that rocket punch immediately refreshed the railshot. GOtta realize, although they have a +25 crit chance ability, they aren't like smash jugs with autocrit.

 

Compare a warriors damage against say an assassin, or a mercenary, and you still say the in between damage is lackluster? If they're sitting on a mercenary, that lackluster damage greatly exceeds what the mercernary is doing in return.

 

This is why I hate hate hate hate people who rationalize the damage that Smash does.

[Jarfunkz]

Smash is without a doubt the hardest hitting thing in the game. However, the rest of the rotation is a bit lackluster number wise. True, A warrior can smash you for 5-6k and then hit you for 1.5-3k vicious slashes, but a Pyrotech PT will give you a 5k railshot, 4-5k rocket punch, another 5k railshot.. etc. In my experience PTs do more burst than a warrior, but it is over several abilities.

 

LOL. A pyro pt will get 25% of their damage from their dot. Mara/Jugg/Sin all have more damage potential than PT.

[WaywardOne]

This isn't too tough to do in excel. Four columns:

 

Attack Name Total Damage Taken # of times hit Average damage

 

It's nice to know that smash is one of the hardest hitting attacks in the game if it isn't the hardest (who is arguing otherwise?) but that doesn't mean everything that does less is irrelevant. Burst is better than a dot but dots do kill ppl.

 

it almost sounds like you're making a case saying rage is the best single target pvp dps - I promise it is not.

Edited January 29, 2013 by WaywardOne

[DarthOvertone]

Yeah it would be cool if my freighter flyby did its damage instantly. I wonder what it'd hit for if it did?

 

My Sniper's Orbital Strike was critting last night on opponents for 3,801. Of course, there is a big bright animation effect for the aoe so you would have to be a tard to stand in the area and eat the damage, but when it crits, it hits pretty hard. My Sniper also isn't min/maxed yet, less than halfway there.

 

 

Burst is better than a dot but dots do kill ppl.

 

This is an interesting point, and I noticed it a lot in my logs. Like CC, every class seems to possess some form of DoT damage. That DoT damage starts to add up big time, especially if you have healers that don't cleanse. It isn't flashy like the big hits, but it certainly is significant in NWZs.