Who's Hurting Me? Big Hitters

[NoTomorrow]

In this thread: People don't realize that other big attacks are more than a single number

 

- Shock hits twice: 4000+/2000+

- Railshot applies a instant application of Superheated rail 5500+/1300+

- Merciless Slash comes with an off hand hit, and often applies a dot that is off GCD 5700+/1400+/700+

 

I wish I knew more about Carnage Marauder or Marksman Sniper exact damage, but I bet you would be blown away at Ambush/Followthru/Takedown or 100% armor ignoring attacks on a 1.0 second GCD.

 

Shock = instant, Railshot = Instant, Smash = Instant, Annihilate = Instant.

 

Ambush = 1,5s procced, 2,5s unprocced. FT = needs a snipe/ambush/takedown, in any way it's not a 1gcd instant attack.

 

As long as we have the above mentioned other classes isntant attacks being capable to deliver so much damage, the damage of Sniper attacks is completely warranted. I feel no second thoughts when i deliver 5000 ambushes followed by 4500 FT. because all this is the result of power, surge and crit i had to invest in compared to other classes that have all sort of auto-crit procs or +15% crit chance set bonuses.

Edited January 21, 2013 by NoTomorrow

[MusicRider]

Thought you would of worked that out mate.

 

lol. No I haven't. Who are you? Give me a clue. Mainly dps or heals?

[MusicRider]

Maybe for RailShot only...

 

Shock, definitely not. Either you take an Assassin's Shock, which will need set up and has only 10m range but will hit hard, either you take a Sorcerer's Shock which will hit 1/3 less when not crit and do not increase its crit multiplier by any means but will have range.

 

This. Forgot the 10m range of assassins shock. He can't be referring to a shock as it does not hit anywhere near this 4k that he had said.

[Kegparty]

I think he is replying to the double proc shock 1st full shock then the 2nd at half or something like that.... we all forget its not insta crit

[MusicRider]

Omitted the "sorcerer's". It can only hit about 4k-4.2k crit and combined with the second strike from the proc.

[KruelhandJorb]

interesting post by the OP, although using '5k' is not really that reliable... gear is everything in PvP... i think we all know that Smash/Sweep is the scramble in your eggs in PvP.

 

Lately I've been running around on my Sentinel which I often switch around specs for laughs and just to not be another contributor to the whole "DERPSMASH" epidemic going on. The hardest I've ever hit anyone in PvP was with Masterstrike's last tick which I hit someone for 7k with... no one should be able to hit anyone regardless of gear gap or circumstances for that hard... I think that besides Derpsmash and lolertech DPS on all the classes is fine in PvP (ymmv)

[Stavroz]

In this thread: People don't realize that other big attacks are more than a single number

 

- Shock hits twice: 4000+/2000+

- Railshot applies a instant application of Superheated rail 5500+/1300+

- Merciless Slash comes with an off hand hit, and often applies a dot that is off GCD 5700+/1400+/700+

 

I wish I knew more about Carnage Marauder or Marksman Sniper exact damage, but I bet you would be blown away at Ambush/Followthru/Takedown or 100% armor ignoring attacks on a 1.0 second GCD.

 

Shock/Project only can only hits for that hard once every 1 and a half minutes and its only a 45% chance of happening as well and i have only ever hit that hard against sorcs/sages, no other class!

 

Let me explain.

 

To hit that hard a shadow needs to have particle acceleration and use his force potency. Force potency is on a 1.5 min cooldown. It gives you 2 charges for your next force attack to gain a 60% chance to crit. Now here is the kicker! Even though its 2 charges (3 if you you have set bonus) it expends 2 charges if you double crit with the project and the upheaval element.

 

Yes that's right the 2 hits crit chance are calculated interdependently so its possible to crit on the first hit but not the second and vice verser. So that basically rules out you doing two 6k hits in every 1.5 min its only possible to do 1.

 

And there is only a 45%chance of it happening b/c your project has a a 45% chance of doing an upheavel.

 

So lets get this right.

45% chance of doing a 6k hit on a sage/sore once every 1.5 min vs a jug/mara that can do a 5-6k hit on any class once every 9 seconds at MINIMUM.

 

Sorry that's not balance or anywhere near the same

 

As for railshots and merciles slash i am no expert on power techs and maras so someone else can clarify.

[MiaRB]

Shock/Project only can only hits for that hard once every 1 and a half minutes and its only a 45% chance of happening as well and i have only ever hit that hard against sorcs/sages, no other class!

 

Let me explain.

 

To hit that hard a shadow needs to have particle acceleration and use his force potency. Force potency is on a 1.5 min cooldown. It gives you 2 charges for your next force attack to gain a 60% chance to crit. Now here is the kicker! Even though its 2 charges (3 if you you have set bonus) it expends 2 charges if you double crit with the project and the upheaval element.

 

Yes that's right the 2 hits crit chance are calculated interdependently so its possible to crit on the first hit but not the second and vice verser. So that basically rules out you doing two 6k hits in every 1.5 min its only possible to do 1.

 

And there is only a 45%chance of it happening b/c your project has a a 45% chance of doing an upheavel.

 

So lets get this right.

45% chance of doing a 6k hit on a sage/sore once every 1.5 min vs a jug/mara that can do a 5-6k hit on any class once every 9 seconds at MINIMUM.

 

Sorry that's not balance or anywhere near the same

 

As for railshots and merciles slash i am no expert on power techs and maras so someone else can clarify.

 

for inf spec shadows, project/upheaval combo combines for 5k+ quite often because of the +30% damage proc from 2 CS hits, plus the +50% damage on crits. both apply to upheaval hits. pretty much any time project crits and i get an upheaval hit, it combines for over 5k, even if the upheaval doesnt crit. when both crit, its 6k+.

Edited January 21, 2013 by MiaRB

[Kegparty]

Ill clarify for the pyro we get a set bonus to help our crit out for rail shot

 

Roughly 1 in 2 crits if you count everything else in good pvp gear. I believe I am rounding up. Now we can get another rail shot with an upper cut if you are already spec to it.

 

Keep in mind you need:

 

To have someone on fire (not relativly hard)

15 sec cooldown

16 heat

single target

 

Now for the double proc rail shot:

You have a 45% from an upercutt to have a 60% chance that the next rail shot is free without a cooldown (that's a 45% -> 60%)

 

 

SO to calculate the percent of both events occurring I believe p=45%*60% = 27% for the free rail shot no cooldown

 

So as probability goes you can crit someone from 5k-7.5k (crit) (god i love recruit geared guys) and then hit them again after the uppercut. Chances are one of them will crit for the above numbers.If you fail its 2k-3k shots if I remember correctly.

 

Keep in mind I am waiting for lolsmash to change before I start playing my 50s again. I get too pissed off with 3 people on my team dropping instantly from 2 smashers with force leaps that interrupt casting.

 

OK TO SUM IT ALL UP

To do a double rail shot with a double crit

 

=50% (generous chance of crit) *50% (generous chance of crit2)*27% (of both working)

 

WOOHOOO 7% CHANCE on a single target

 

Correct me if I am wrong

Edited January 21, 2013 by Kegparty

[Kegparty]

and before everyone says what about the rocket punch damage??? Just count a force scream or a choke or even the finisher move.

 

I think the main problem with the smash is that its 100% and when you get 2 on you its over in a second. The only thing holding them back from ridiculous damage numbers is the bubble stun but enough people are ************ on the forums that they will look at it....

 

I personally would always have a sorc bubbler to counter the lolsmash

[Kegparty]

And to counter the bubbler... WHY not let the range pop em??!?! Is it that hard to wait to go in and lolsmash? They are the only class totally effected by the bubble and for good reason.

[PloGreen]

lol. No I haven't. Who are you? Give me a clue. Mainly dps or heals?

 

Begins with a j. 3 letters bruv.

[Coldin]

And to counter the bubbler... WHY not let the range pop em??!?! Is it that hard to wait to go in and lolsmash? They are the only class totally effected by the bubble and for good reason.

 

Except every other melee class out there, like scoundrel, shadow, vanguard....

 

And that doesn't really stop the sage from just running up to people and popping their own bubble.

[Wainamoinen]

Nice post Il.

Cheers, and to all the others who have responded positively. Tried to make it objective and constructive.

 

Want to know who hit you for over 7k? lolol. Still haven't met anyone that has broken me this bad. Highest I've noticed is just over 6.9k smash from a jug.

Hmm, tempted to put something in Another Place *taps nose*.

 

interesting post by the OP, although using '5k' is not really that reliable... gear is everything in PvP... i think we all know that Smash/Sweep is the scramble in your eggs in PvP.

5k *is* an arbitrary value for a cut off for what constitutes a big hit; I picked it because it's a nice round number that gives a good amount of results (460) over the time concerned. As to gear, what matters in comparing hits is that they're all on similar targets - they are, as they were all on me, and the factor that might cause systemic variation (amount of expertise) didn't change much over the course of time.

Edited January 21, 2013 by Wainamoinen

[Kegparty]

Except every other melee class out there, like scoundrel, shadow, vanguard....

 

And that doesn't really stop the sage from just running up to people and popping their own bubble.

 

Yah too bad none of those have any ranged abilities. I didnt realize vanguards are melee.

 

I do agree the force bubble popping is lame

[Edonidd]

for inf spec shadows, project/upheaval combo combines for 5k+ quite often because of the +30% damage proc from 2 CS hits, plus the +50% damage on crits. both apply to upheaval hits. pretty much any time project crits and i get an upheaval hit, it combines for over 5k, even if the upheaval doesnt crit. when both crit, its 6k+.

 

I hate when people point out how hard Shock can hit for Sins. As a Sorcerer I can not stand that Assassins hit harder with ranged abilites than I can. And they definitely hit harder with melee abilities.

 

Sins can hit harder with Force Lightning than a Sorc ever can. Can hit harder with Shock than a Sorc ever can. Can hit just as hard with Deathfield. Hell, recklessness even grants 30 meter range on some of their abilities. There is absolutely zero point to DPS sorcs in this game, and I wish they had told me that when given the.choice to choose advanced classes.

[warstory]

I hate when people point out how hard Shock can hit for Sins. As a Sorcerer I can not stand that Assassins hit harder with ranged abilites than I can. And they definitely hit harder with melee abilities.

 

Sins can hit harder with Force Lightning than a Sorc ever can. Can hit harder with Shock than a Sorc ever can. Can hit just as hard with Deathfield. Hell, recklessness even grants 30 meter range on some of their abilities. There is absolutely zero point to DPS sorcs in this game, and I wish they had told me that when given the.choice to choose advanced classes.

 

^ sorc feels like a rush job when u look at it that way

[Kegparty]

I hate when people point out how hard Shock can hit for Sins. As a Sorcerer I can not stand that Assassins hit harder with ranged abilites than I can. And they definitely hit harder with melee abilities.

 

Sins can hit harder with Force Lightning than a Sorc ever can. Can hit harder with Shock than a Sorc ever can. Can hit just as hard with Deathfield. Hell, recklessness even grants 30 meter range on some of their abilities. There is absolutely zero point to DPS sorcs in this game, and I wish they had told me that when given the.choice to choose advanced classes.

 

 

So true but lets remove the bubble stun just because its messing with the jumpers

[Altheran]

I hate when people point out how hard Shock can hit for Sins. As a Sorcerer I can not stand that Assassins hit harder with ranged abilites than I can. And they definitely hit harder with melee abilities.

 

Sins can hit harder with Force Lightning than a Sorc ever can. Can hit harder with Shock than a Sorc ever can. Can hit just as hard with Deathfield. Hell, recklessness even grants 30 meter range on some of their abilities. There is absolutely zero point to DPS sorcs in this game, and I wish they had told me that when given the.choice to choose advanced classes.

 

Shock has a 10m range, this is not what I call a "ranged attack".

 

If Assassins can hit harder with Force Lightning, it is because people corrupted the tank tree by equipping them with DPS gear... Give them tank gear, and when they have their 75% bonus damage, they hardly match a Assassin with another spec or a Sorcerer. I'll give you that such a big increase has nothing to do in a tank spec.

 

Recklessness give 30m to only one ability : Force Lightning. Remember that this attack is useless for non-tank spec, outside of interrupting a cap at 30m when Recklessness is your only way to do it.

 

Assassins do not match Sorcerers on Death Field, because they haven't Sorcerer's Willpower increasing talent.

Edited January 21, 2013 by Altheran

[Kegparty]

I think a valid question is how many assassins would trade for a sorc right now. It's one click away.

Neither class is OP to the point of nerf in my opinion

[Edonidd]

Shock has a 10m range, this is not what I call a "ranged attack".

 

If Assassins can hit harder with Force Lightning, it is because people corrupted the tank tree by equipping them with DPS gear... Give them tank gear, and when they have their 75% bonus damage, they hardly match a Assassin with another spec or a Sorcerer. I'll give you that such a big increase has nothing to do in a tank spec.

 

Recklessness give 30m to only one ability : Force Lightning. Remember that this attack is useless for non-tank spec, outside of interrupting a cap at 30m when Recklessness is your only way to do it.

 

Assassins do not match Sorcerers on Death Field, because they haven't Sorcerer's Willpower increasing talent.

 

But Sins and shadows don't need ranged abilities, they have stealth and in combat stealth, plus force speed and force slow to keep themselves within 10m.

 

The fact remains that Sins are able to hit harder with Force Lightning than a Sorcerer can. Makes it even mote annoying that a tank spec can do more damage with force Lightning than a DPS sorc can with the same ability. Especially annoying because Force Lightning is nearly 50% of Madness spec damage.

 

Recklessness does give a melee class full 30m range. On an ability that we already pointed out does more damage than a Sorc.

 

I'm sorry, I forgot Sorcs get 6% more willpower. Which equates to less than 6% damage on deathfield. Even full madness specced Sins don't consider Deathfield their best ability or their biggest damager. It is far and away a Sorc's best ability. 6% wouldn't make it any better for Sins, or any worse for Sorcs.

[MusicRider]

 

 

Hmm, tempted to put something in Another Place *taps nose*.

 

Red eclipse forum / pit, well belongs there.

Edited January 22, 2013 by MusicRider

[MusicRider]

Begins with a j. 3 letters bruv.

 

Yo jak.

[RaithHarth]

Very informative chart, should help tell the difference which OP abilities that need a nerf

[PloGreen]

Yo jak.

 

Haha. No rated for me tonight, night shift.