Who's Hurting Me? Big Hitters

[MusicRider]

It is stable 4500-4800 on wh. With either wz buff, bloodthist it will be over 5 k. On recruit without AoE reduction talents it will be always 5 k +. On greens it will be 6-7 k (yes i saw it).

 

I don't know, as I said I've played it with power around 970 and surge at about 76% and never saw it. May run another test at some point with max power/surge and see when crits.

[Kegparty]

... WOW great data.. I need to do this and so do more people.

 

I have a:

50 pyro

50 Sorc

49 Mara

40 Op healer

 

 

I know the pyro and sorc both are WH + EWH this would be a good test

[MusicRider]

It is stable 4500-4800 on wh. With either wz buff, bloodthist it will be over 5 k. On recruit without AoE reduction talents it will be always 5 k +. On greens it will be 6-7 k (yes i saw it).

 

Also just noticed that you mention wz buffs and others. Here the point is the natural ability of hitting not buffed. With the same logic all 5k+ hits are 6k+, and 6k+ are 7k+.

 

Edit: OP being hit for 7.2 with a buff would be around 8.3 and with 2 buffs 9.5k, taking it that this a smash it is a 9.5k aoe on wh geared players. Don't even want to know the numbers on recruit geared people,

Edited January 21, 2013 by MusicRider

[BambulaGTS]

Also just noticed that you mention wz buffs and others. Here the point is the natural ability of hitting not buffed. With the same logic all 5k+ hits are 6k+, and 6k+ are 7k+.

 

Edit: OP being hit for 7.2 with a buff would be around 8.3 and with 2 buffs 9.5k, taking it that this a smash it is a 9.5k aoe on wh geared players. Don't even want to know the numbers on recruit geared people,

 

Nope, 7 k + smashes on wh geared people means bloodthist (you know some of them have their own candies) or wz buff or both.

 

Armor reduction abilities (see shatter shot from sniper - 20 % armor rating) especially on such classes like sorcs who have like 20 % armor dmr, could help with big numbers a lot.

Edited January 21, 2013 by BambulaGTS

[warstory]

There is no single ability that a sage/sorc can instant hit for over 5k on a decently geared opponent. There are more though that are between 4-4.5, but you cannot have access to them at the same time.

1. Force in balance from balance tree

2. Project (shock) from balance tree (crit and proc)

3. Disturbance (lightning strike) from telekinetics tree (crit and proc)

4. Turbolence (thundering blast) as you mentioned from telekinetics tree

 

Correct no big hits in sorc trees the biggest hit is force in balance which is hard than turbalance if u spec into the 10% aoe increase in the seer tree

[HoboWithAStick]

This is a very interesting thread, hope bioware takes note.

[Stavroz]

As a tank i have been hit for 6.3k by a smash.

 

Shadow tank 1314 expertise full WH with 8 piece Elite WH

Its a bit over the top i would say.

And to add insult to injury they can smash every 9seconds (and faster b/c of reduced cool down passive)

 

While i am sure when i got hit the Jug may have had a war zone Expertise buff (the ones on the map not adrenal) or Marauder inspiration i still get hit by geared Jugs and Mara's for 5-5.5k consistently.

 

No way a tank should be getting hit by anything over 5k by any ability let alone 6k+. I feel sorry for the poor sages/sorc taking the same hits.

[tatatan]

As a tank i have been hit for 6.3k by a smash.

 

Shadow tank 1314 expertise full WH with 8 piece Elite WH

Its a bit over the top i would say.

And to add insult to injury they can smash every 9seconds (and faster b/c of reduced cool down passive)

 

While i am sure when i got hit the Jug may have had a war zone Expertise buff (the ones on the map not adrenal) or Marauder inspiration i still get hit by geared Jugs and Mara's for 5-5.5k consistently.

 

No way a tank should be getting hit by anything over 5k by any ability let alone 6k+. I feel sorry for the poor sages/sorc taking the same hits.

 

Agree, I play Jugg tank and it already is beyond ridicules. I already started to acquire DPS gear. PvP is not unplayable, but certainly far from being fun for me as tank in tank gear.

[venomlash]

We've been hearing (justified) complaints about lolsmash for a while now, but it's nice to see a good robust survey of the problem. Thanks!

[MasterFeign]

Force attacks will do that to tanks though...

 

What makes it even more agonizing though is that if you're protecting someone, you get half their damage as well as the regular smash damage too, making it much worse.

 

The irony is that my tankassin is more tanky as a dps wearing tank hybrid specced character than full tank with tank gear.

[Kegparty]

Yah I really need to start logging. This was great info. I looked it over again.

[KettleBelll]

In this thread: People don't realize that other big attacks are more than a single number

 

- Shock hits twice: 4000+/2000+

- Railshot applies a instant application of Superheated rail 5500+/1300+

- Merciless Slash comes with an off hand hit, and often applies a dot that is off GCD 5700+/1400+/700+

 

I wish I knew more about Carnage Marauder or Marksman Sniper exact damage, but I bet you would be blown away at Ambush/Followthru/Takedown or 100% armor ignoring attacks on a 1.0 second GCD.

Edited January 21, 2013 by KettleBelll

[MusicRider]

Nope, 7 k + smashes on wh geared people means bloodthist (you know some of them have their own candies) or wz buff or both.

 

Armor reduction abilities (see shatter shot from sniper - 20 % armor rating) especially on such classes like sorcs who have like 20 % armor dmr, could help with big numbers a lot.

 

As a pretty much min/max sage I can guarrantee you that I am frequently hit by min/max smashers on average around 6.5K without bloodthirst. With bloodthirst and wz adrenal this will go up to near 8k-8.5K on average. This is about 40% of a typical buffed hp of a sage in one hit (and pretty much everyone unlucky to sit in the area). A crit force scream is another 4k-4.5k on average so this brings us to 13K damage in one gcd. If so happens to be unfortunate and have 90% hp then you open an opportunity for dispatch. In a nutshell it is theoretically possible for a smasher to kill a sage in 3secs.

[Altheran]

In this thread: People don't realize that other big attacks are more than a single number

 

- Shock hits twice: 4000+/2000+

- Railshot applies a instant application of Superheated rail 5500+/1300+

- Merciless Slash comes with an off hand hit, and often applies a dot that is off GCD 5700+/1400+/700+

 

And also the ones that don't takes into account that all of these need crit luck (and sometimes proc luck) and say "look it's the same" when comparing with a one which deals consistantly the same damage range. And this without even considering they are all single-target while they're comparing to an AoE...

 

 

Real average of Deception Assassin's Shock according to your numbers :

(40% * 2000 + 60% * 4000) + 50% (40% * 1000 + 60% * 2000) = 4000.

Definitly comparable to a 6-7K Smash !

Edited January 21, 2013 by Altheran

[Stavroz]

Force attacks will do that to tanks though...

 

What makes it even more agonizing though is that if you're protecting someone, you get half their damage as well as the regular smash damage too, making it much worse.

 

The irony is that my tankassin is more tanky as a dps wearing tank hybrid specced character than full tank with tank gear.

 

Agreed thats how i play it. Tank spec with DPS gear. But regardless of tank gear or not the armor mitigation is the same as long as you are in the Combat Technique (tank stance) 38.57% Mitigation as a shadow.

[MusicRider]

In this thread: People don't realize that other big attacks are more than a single number

 

- Shock hits twice: 4000+/2000+

- Railshot applies a instant application of Superheated rail 5500+/1300+

- Merciless Slash comes with an off hand hit, and often applies a dot that is off GCD 5700+/1400+/700+

 

Yes and they will be complains about them if smash is nerfed. However, these hits do not autocrit and have no aoe effect.

[Kegparty]

How about this... Ill trade my shock for your smash... Ill even thrown in a bubble if you toss in your reductions

[PloGreen]

As a pretty much min/max sage I can guarrantee you that I am frequently hit by min/max smashers on average around 6.5K without bloodthirst. With bloodthirst and wz adrenal this will go up to near 8k-8.5K on average. This is about 40% of a typical buffed hp of a sage in one hit (and pretty much everyone unlucky to sit in the area). A crit force scream is another 4k-4.5k on average so this brings us to 13K damage in one gcd. If so happens to be unfortunate and have 90% hp then you open an opportunity for dispatch. In a nutshell it is theoretically possible for a smasher to kill a sage in 3secs.

 

This is true. Sages dont really have much in the regards to mititgation, which is why everyone likes to target them. I can attest that 6.7k smashes are not rare, if the player smashing you is min maxed - (i'm also a min maxed sage, from the same guild as windrider).

 

5k hits with fob are rare, and you are not getting those on geared augmented opponents, never.

 

More like 4.5-4.8k and thats using 10% increase on aoe damage in seer tree, and dependent on the other classes (usually other sorc tbh).

[KettleBelll]

Yes and they will be complains about them if smash is nerfed. However, these hits do not autocrit and have no aoe effect.

 

They also have range, have much shorter cooldowns, and don't require any set up of Shockwave building.

 

But talking about it doesn't matter because bads won't listen. Smash is only > bads. Bads will never understand that Smash is one big number, and other classes big attacks are a collection of numbers.

[MusicRider]

(i'm also a min maxed sage, from the same guild as windrider).

 

Who are you? LOLOL.

[PloGreen]

Who are you? LOLOL.

 

Thought you would of worked that out mate.

[sauerkraut]

As a pretty much min/max sage I can guarrantee you that I am frequently hit by min/max smashers on average around 6.5K without bloodthirst. With bloodthirst and wz adrenal this will go up to near 8k-8.5K on average. This is about 40% of a typical buffed hp of a sage in one hit (and pretty much everyone unlucky to sit in the area). A crit force scream is another 4k-4.5k on average so this brings us to 13K damage in one gcd. If so happens to be unfortunate and have 90% hp then you open an opportunity for dispatch. In a nutshell it is theoretically possible for a smasher to kill a sage in 3secs.

 

Sure, another fish tale, post a screenshot with your 8.5K hit against a geared enemy.

[MusicRider]

They also have range, have much shorter cooldowns, and don't require any set up of Shockwave building.

 

I am not sure how to reply to this. Right

 

Range: gap closers plus there are other melee classes in the other team right? it's not like your are fighting 8 snipers.

 

Cooldown: Three abilities reduce the cooldown of sweep by about 3-4 secs earlier.

 

Setup of shockwave: Very diffiult to do and very bad also as it slows target, does dot and burst in the end. Frankly I use it for damage and slow more than the singularity cause I am constantly zenning till next sweep. It's like an endless pool of focus. You really got to see the force management of watch/anni in comparison to focus/rage. Even the top hitting ability costs more, is single target, does less damage and in the end zen does not give a full focus bar.

[MusicRider]

Sure, another fish tale, post a screenshot with your 8.5K hit against a geared enemy.

 

It is roughly theoretically possible 6.5K + 30% of it from bloodthirst and warzone adrenal. Have better things to do than doing your homework.

[Altheran]

They also have range, have much shorter cooldowns, and don't require any set up of Shockwave building.

Maybe for RailShot only...

 

Shock, definitely not. Either you take an Assassin's Shock, which will need set up and has only 10m range but will hit hard, either you take a Sorcerer's Shock which will hit 1/3 less when not crit and do not increase its crit multiplier by any means but will have range.

Edited January 21, 2013 by Altheran