Kaggath Tournament - Grievous vs Revan vs G0-T0

[Canino]

Okay so what would you say if HK-47 spontaneously decided to kill Revan one day just cause? --- Seems ridiculous

 

The problem here is you're having 2 charecters behaving in a manner that is in complete contradiction to their charecters.

 

1. Time Difference between 2 of the 3 chars is at most only a decade.

At most Revan at the height of his power as a Sith was only a decade before G0-T0 was running his criminal enterprise.

 

2. Personality traits, how charecters would behave.

 

G0-T0

If we assume G0-T0 believed Revan was turning the galaxy into a mess, then yes he would delete Revan. However, if G0-T0 looked at the patterns in Revan's behavior (such as leaving infrastructure intact, strengthening things, etc.) then he would be forced to change his assessment of Revan (and yes there is a conversation in KotOR II where G0-T0 suggests Revan should have stayed as a figurehead to rally the Republic (guessing same is true with Darkside Revan).

 

Remember G0-T0 is a droid, he isn't as prone to ego trips as organics are (he has an ego, but he isn't an ego-maniac)

 

Revan

Then we have Revan whom is trying to strengthen the Republic against an outside threat (and rule it)... Why would he want to have "Goto" killed if all he's doing is preventing the Hutts from causing problems? Revan wasn't one to spontaneously conduct rampages of mass violence, even when he was Darth Revan.

 

Seriously, he often tried to capture Jedi alive, not kill them and there was a reason for it; for him to kill "Goto" for absolutely no reason, quite frankly is way out of charecter (even when Revan was a Darksider). Revan inspired loyalty for a reason, and it wasn't simply fear that caused people to follow him.

 

Upon discovering "Goto's" motivations (and the fact "Goto" has no interest in ruling), Revan would know that "Goto's" goals fit perfectly with Revan's objectives. Securing "Goto's" allegience would give him an intelligence network that was substancially better than Revan's own intelligence networks. Killing "Goto" would mean that network is destroyed and he loses an incredible asset...

 

I think this Kaggath is the first one where we have to seriously look at motivations of various charecters...

 

Grievous is a no brainer, both Revan and G0-T0 would want Grievous dead (or deleted), he's a homicidal maniac that just wrecks things on planetary and galactic scales...

 

Query: Is it possible for someone to fake their death in this fight? Cause I actually could see Revan destroying a droid that used to be G0-T0, and say G0-T0's dead so he technically "wins" that way. Could also see G0-T0 stopping Revan's heart with something so Revan "dies" and then is given an antidote to resuscitate him in order to "win."

 

I think G0-T0 would win this fairly easily, but by the same token I don't see any real motivation for him to kill Revan (now if it were gunning down Kreia for instance, that would be different), but considering the fact Revan's objectives would match G0-T0's without interfering with each other, I really don't think this Kaggeth would ever reach a conclusion, because there would be no motivation for them to bump each other off.

 

 

 

That's assuming Revan is stupid enough to believe Mr. "Time to Abandon Ship..."

 

 

 

Did you ever play KotOR II? Revan is the one that built HK-47 and had him programmed to call people "Meatbags..."

 

In fact discovering "Goto" is a droid would make him even less likely to attack G0-T0, because he doesn't have to worry about "Goto" killing him because they have similar objectives that are compatible.

 

You're looking at it wrong. Look at it this way-- imagine, for a second, if somehow, Reven, G0-T0, and GG were suddenly put in the same time in galactic history. Now, they are forced to fight. Who would win? It doesn't matter why they are fighting, but they are fighting. You can make up any scenario you want, but they have to fight, and they have to follow the Kaggath rules. That's it. Ever seen the the show Deadliest Warrior? They do the same thing.

 

Two links:

Option Uno

Option Dos

 

From Option Dos, or their wiki

Deadliest Warrior is a television program that pits two ancient or modern warriors against each other in a simulated battle using information gathered from various tests performed on the warriors weapons and techniques. Data is collected about the weapons, then is uploaded into a simulation program. The results of the program determine the "deadliest warrior" of the two in the episode, then the fight is dramatized by actors, showing who won the episodes battle.

[Aurbere]

You're looking at it wrong. Look at it this way-- imagine, for a second, if somehow, Reven, G0-T0, and GG were suddenly put in the same time in galactic history. Now, they are forced to fight. Who would win? It doesn't matter why they are fighting, but they are fighting. You can make up any scenario you want, but they have to fight, and they have to follow the Kaggath rules. That's it. Ever seen the the show Deadliest Warrior? They do the same thing.

 

Two links:

Option Uno

Option Dos

 

From Option Dos, or their wiki

 

Deadliest Warrior was an awesome show! Though I haven't seen it on very much.

Edited January 21, 2013 by Aurbere

[Aurbere]

That's assuming Revan is stupid enough to believe Mr. "Time to Abandon Ship..."

 

Why not? Grievous isn't a shifty character.

 

Did you ever play KotOR II? Revan is the one that built HK-47 and had him programmed to call people "Meatbags..."

 

Going on my twenty-third time. Maybe I have too much time on my hands...

 

In fact discovering "Goto" is a droid would make him even less likely to attack G0-T0, because he doesn't have to worry about "Goto" killing him because they have similar objectives that are compatible.

 

Jokes lol.

 

Garfield, don't worry yourself over it. This is just for fun (killing your opponent, money... really whatever's fun to the individual). Think of Huttball. The Jedi can be on either side (or both sides). They don't want to fight, and yet, for the purpose of the game, they do fight.

[StarSquirrel]

Deadliest Warrior was an awesome show! Though I haven't seen it on very much.

 

I'm pretty sure it was canceled

[Aurbere]

I'm pretty sure it was canceled

 

I was beginning to suspect that. It was a good show too.

[Darkondo]

I'd say it seems like all the bases are pretty much covered when are the results of this Kaggath decided?

[StarSquirrel]

I'd say it seems like all the bases are pretty much covered when are the results of this Kaggath decided?

 

lol, I said as much 10 or so pages ago

[StarSquirrel]

OK, it seems some points need to be addressed here, so here goes:

Concerning Grievous vs Revan. Some people seem to think Grievous would wipe the floor with Revan in such a battle. But at least in my opinion I don't think this is the case. Lets look at this in detail:

 

Oh and if you accept that Grievous beats Revan, you also have to accept Ventress beats Revan (like uses-him-to mop-his-own-blood-of-the-floor beat him) But you probably do so whatever.

 

Hey Beni I'd like to address this (from quite a few pages back) myself though I'm sure Aurbere already did at some point.

 

I think we established several times in every Kaggath with Grievous in it that he is a total coward in regards to 1v1 duels. This makes Revan's superiority in dueling (which I grant you he'd slaughter Grievous in) meaningless. Grievous's numbers just wouldn't let it happen. And yeah even if Revan and Malak made it near Grievous, Ventress would wipe the floor with them.

 

With that out of the way,

 

Ya know, Beni it'd be cool to type up an official Kaggath thread to include rules (and you can explain them more thoroughly), an index of previous Kaggaths, and winners. Think of the possibilities!

[GarfieldJL]

Hey Beni I'd like to address this (from quite a few pages back) myself though I'm sure Aurbere already did at some point.

 

I think we established several times in every Kaggath with Grievous in it that he is a total coward in regards to 1v1 duels. This makes Revan's superiority in dueling (which I grant you he'd slaughter Grievous in) meaningless. Grievous's numbers just wouldn't let it happen. And yeah even if Revan and Malak made it near Grievous, Ventress would wipe the floor with them.

 

With that out of the way,

 

Ya know, Beni it'd be cool to type up an official Kaggath thread to include rules (and you can explain them more thoroughly), an index of previous Kaggaths, and winners. Think of the possibilities!

 

In all honesty I think Malek could take Ventress and it'd be about an even match...

 

Really I think this will end up with Grievous and Revan killing each other, while G0-T0 bides his time and sets up agents to kill the winner.

 

It'd be extremely easy for them to forget about "Goto" if he hasn't been sending any forces to show up at the fights...

[MasterMe]

It is entirely possible that Revan could kill Greivous 1v1 or with a handful of assassins in this match. I don't know why people don't agree. Just look at how many times he was nearly defeated in the Clone Wars. Part of the reason he escaped so many times is because of this:

 

Jedi try to take prisoners. Revan is no Jedi. He is very cunning. He has tons of stealthy assassins on his side. He is better then Greivous 1v1.

 

I'm unsure as to how G0-T0 will change things, but I'm still confident that Revan will beat Greivous.

[Warren-Stride]

It is entirely possible that Revan could kill Greivous 1v1 or with a handful of assassins in this match. I don't know why people don't agree. Just look at how many times he was nearly defeated in the Clone Wars. Part of the reason he escaped so many times is because of this:

 

Jedi try to take prisoners. Revan is no Jedi. He is very cunning. He has tons of stealthy assassins on his side. He is better then Greivous 1v1.

 

I'm unsure as to how G0-T0 will change things, but I'm still confident that Revan will beat Greivous.

 

Oh no! Now I have to defend Grievous!

 

Revan may have his assassins, but Grievous has his magmaguards. The ones that Obi-wan and Anikan had a hard time defeating. The ones that keep on fighting without their heads. They're IG series too. So while Revan may have his assassins, they're not going to be a match for Grievous's super-advanced droids. (that no doubt have heat vision to find stealthed assassins)

 

You're right, the Jedi do try to take prisoners. They did with Revan, did they not? So by your logic, Revan would have been defeated many times in his war had the Jedi not tried to take prisioners.

 

1v1, it'll be a close match between Revan and Greivous. But I doubt it'll come to that. And I don't see any possible way Revan can defeat the CIS with his small (in comparison) army.

Edited January 21, 2013 by Warren-Stride

[Joluka]

I'm frustrated because this always happens with Revan. People come in and say that he's this omega awesome dude and supply that argument with assumptions.

 

Revan is (obviously) more powerful than Grievous with The Force, but that hasn't stopped him before. Grievous has faced very powerful opponents and emerged victorious or he simply fled.

 

Revan is an omega awesome dude. He would have obliterated and destroyed the Republic and the Jedi had it not been for Malak shooting at his ship. That said, one of his masters, Darth Traya/Kreia did indeed destroy the Jedi along with Sion and Nihilus. Don't you think that Revan would be a super omega guy if he was taught by Traya? Had it not been for the Meetra Surik's disobedience, she would have been killed as well. Notably, if Revan learned from Kreia and the Sith Emperor, in my book, Surik would be one of the few able to defeat Darth Revan. Maybe not Reborn Revan, but certainly Darth Revan given the fact that she defeated the Sith Triumvirate and actually faced the Sith Emperor without collapsing and crying like a baby.

 

Grievous can easily be defeated by Darth Revan. Obi-Wan Kenobi defeated Grievous but we have to understand, Kenobi was only ONE Jedi. Yes, he was a Council member, but he wasn't the WHOLE Jedi Order. Darth Revan had both the Order and the Republic at his mercy. The only way I see Grievous winning against Darth Revan is Malak being a complete idiot again and firing on his ship. Don't get me wrong, Malak also was a HUGE threat to the Republic, remember? But only because of the Star Forge that REVAN discovered.

 

I am not a Revan fanboy, I am a Kreia fanboy. And because Kreia trained Revan, G0-T0>Revan>Grievous. G0-T0 wins because his small army is made up of heartless Hk-50s, professional Bounty Hunters, the Ubese, and the advantage that Revan cannot sense him because he is a droid. G0-T0 has this in the bag. One on one with either one he would lose, but G0-T0 isn't an idiot and he cannot be found.

[-Star-Scream-]

Trying to be unbiased here, but everyone seems to be overestimating Greivous' army and Revans ability to command and fight. We are remembering revan fought against Star Forge droids easily? He also created the best HK...i think he can take on the other HK's. Grievous i think could wipe out G0-T0 easily. Greivous Vs Revan im not so sure however. Would be interesting!

[Aurbere]

Darth Revan had both the Order and the Republic at his mercy.

 

Just going to pick out this line to correct you on one thing. Revan had a severely crippled Republic and severely weakened Jedi Order at his mercy. Grievous faced the Republic when it was at full strength and he had to deal with some of the most impressive Jedi in history.

 

Revan doesn't have the industry the Galactic Republic had. He doesn't have the millions (up to a billion I believe) of clones. He doesn't have Yoda (and his Battle Meditation), Mace Windu, Obi-Wan Kenobi, and Anakin.

 

Revan doesn't have the numbers to win any battles. A single Lucrehulk cruiser carries enough Battle Droids to deal with a good chunk of Revan's forces. And Grievous has a whole lot of them.

[Beniboybling]

Hey Beni I'd like to address this (from quite a few pages back) myself though I'm sure Aurbere already did at some point.

 

I think we established several times in every Kaggath with Grievous in it that he is a total coward in regards to 1v1 duels. This makes Revan's superiority in dueling (which I grant you he'd slaughter Grievous in) meaningless. Grievous's numbers just wouldn't let it happen. And yeah even if Revan and Malak made it near Grievous, Ventress would wipe the floor with them.

 

With that out of the way,

 

Ya know, Beni it'd be cool to type up an official Kaggath thread to include rules (and you can explain them more thoroughly), an index of previous Kaggaths, and winners. Think of the possibilities!

I see what your saying. But honestly, at least in my opinion, if Revan gets in the same room as Grievous then Grievous is toast (literally) it takes a few seconds for Revan to cast a bolt of lightning and for it to hit Grievous - that would be his opening move. And from that point Grievous is either immobilized or severely weakened. Then all Revan needs to do is crush his gut sack with the Force or cut his defenseless opponent down with a lightsaber. Its debatable whether Grievous is a better duelist than Revan, logic seems to suggest Revan as he was a former Jedi with decades of experience in the Force and in lightsaber combat since he was a youngling. While Grievous has had lightsaber training for what a year? Two? But that's irrelevant because Grievous simply wouldn't have time to bring his lightsabers to bear, Revan would just overwhelm him with superior power in the Force. In such a sense looking at Grievous' battles with other Jedi is meaningless, because none of them wielded Force lightning.

 

Basically if Revan gets to Grievous, Grievous will die. Even if he has Magnaguards protecting him odds or survival a low, he would have to run immediately to avoid death, while his Magnaguards covered his escape. And even then Revan could blast them out of the way a land a killing lightning strike on the poor cyborg. (Note that Magnaguards would not be any more resistant to Force lighting, a good Force storm of Chain Lightning would do the trick)

 

We also have to remember that Grievous was designed to kill Jedi, not Sith. You may say 'they're basically the same' but they are distinctly different.

 

Concerning a match up between Revan & Malak vs Grievous & Ventress - I think the former would win. We actually have solid evidence to support this.

 

Take the fight between Maul & Savage vs Ventress and Obi Wan - the latter lost, hands down. They weren't completely smashed but they were clearly outmatched and forced into retreat.

 

IMO Revan is more powerful or at least as powerful as Maul. Maul was a weapon, his power was finite. Revan's power was infinite, he could and arguably did, achieve far greater mastery over the dark side than Maul ever did.

 

I think its a no-brainer that Malak is stronger than Savage. Savage was even more brutish a weapon than Maul, his technic was incredibly sloppy, and his power was raw. Malak is a Sith Lord, his power is honed and he was one of the most skilled swordsman of his age.

 

And in terms of Obi-Wan, we all know he is more powerful than Grievous. And Grievous has the inherent weaknesses of being vulnerable to Force lightining, which both Revan and Malak wield. So we can pretty conclusively say that Revan & Malak beat Grievous and Ventress.

 

P.S. If you really want to debate otherwise, or say that Ventress > Revan or Ventress > Malak then please provide some evidence. Because I'm just not convinced that that is the case.

[Canino]

I still think G0-T0 could destroy them both with a single gravity well projector, just make them crash into each other. One is stopped from the gravity, the other slams into the person's fleet. Game over. And no one is arguing it. We have multiple ways fro G0-T0 to either, but no ways to kill G0-T0 yet. G0-T0 is definitely winning.

 

G0-T0

Assassins to kill others

Gravity Well crash

Fleet explosions (see my other scenarios)

 

That's all I remember right now, but it seems that Reven and GG have no ways to kill G0-T0.

 

P.S. @ Aurbere, I love Deadliest Warrior. It really sucks it might have been cancelled.

[Beniboybling]

I still think G0-T0 could destroy them both with a single gravity well projector, just make them crash into each other. One is stopped from the gravity, the other slams into the person's fleet. Game over. And no one is arguing it. We have multiple ways fro G0-T0 to either, but no ways to kill G0-T0 yet. G0-T0 is definitely winning.

 

G0-T0

Assassins to kill others

Gravity Well crash

Fleet explosions (see my other scenarios)

 

That's all I remember right now, but it seems that Reven and GG have no ways to kill G0-T0.

 

P.S. @ Aurbere, I love Deadliest Warrior. It really sucks it might have been cancelled.

IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT: G0-T0 IS BANNED BECAUSE HE IS CLASSIFIED AS A SUPERWEAPON.

 

That is all.

 

(I kid, I kid )

[Wolfninjajedi]

Say Beni question, why is this a 3 way when in the OP it says. "The two combatants have full use of their power bases, be it armies, strongholds or fleets, in order to outwit and outmanoeuvre their opponent. "

[Beniboybling]

Say Beni question, why is this a 3 way when in the OP it says. "The two combatants have full use of their power bases, be it armies, strongholds or fleets, in order to outwit and outmanoeuvre their opponent. "

Oopsie, let me just edit that. Edited January 21, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Warren-Stride]

I see what your saying. But honestly, at least in my opinion, if Revan gets in the same room as Grievous then Grievous is toast (literally) it takes a few seconds for Revan to cast a bolt of lightning and for it to hit Grievous - that would be his opening move. And from that point Grievous is either immobilized or severely weakened.

 

Just saying, General Grievous has four lightsabers. And Palpatine's lightning was stopped by one. Good luck frying him now, Revan.

[Beniboybling]

Just saying, General Grievous has four lightsabers. And Palpatine's lightning was stopped by one. Good luck frying him now, Revan.

It is possible to ground Force lightning on a lightsaber, but I would assume that such a feat cannot be done instinctively nor without proper training or concentration, things Grievous did not possess. Sure he probably has enough training with a lightsaber to create some sort of four-point shield, but Force lightning was also shown to be able to break through lightsaber defenses and strike the victim directly. For example when Sidious blasted Yoda, and the ability to create a 'superconducting loop' - which is what blocked Sidious' lighting - required tremendous still, concentration and effort.

 

But you do make a good point, his lightsabers would provide defense against Force lightning. But that would only by Grievous time, Revan can make an opening in Grievous' defenses and kill him that way. The guy is notorious for getting his limbs chopped off, and Revan has the Force to guide his attack. Still, it gives Grievous time to escape, but running isn't going to kill Revan, is it?

[Aurbere]

It is possible to ground Force lightning on a lightsaber, but I would assume that such a feat cannot be done instinctively nor without proper training or concentration, things Grievous did not possess. Sure he probably has enough training with a lightsaber to create some sort of four-point shield, but Force lightning was also shown to be able to break through lightsaber defenses and strike the victim directly. For example when Sidious blasted Yoda, and the ability to create a 'superconducting loop' - which is what blocked Sidious' lighting - required tremendous still, concentration and effort.

 

But you do make a good point, his lightsabers would provide defense against Force lightning. But that would only by Grievous time, Revan can make an opening in Grievous' defenses and kill him that way. The guy is notorious for getting his limbs chopped off, and Revan has the Force to guide his attack. Still, it gives Grievous time to escape, but running isn't going to kill Revan, is it?

 

No, running won't kill Revan. A couple billion battle droids will.

 

And I wouldn't compare Revan's lightning to Sidious'. Major gap between the two.

[Beniboybling]

No, running won't kill Revan. A couple billion battle droids will.

 

And I wouldn't compare Revan's lightning to Sidious'. Major gap between the two.

Both good points, but there is also a major gap between Yoda's ability to wield and lightsaber and Grievous'. I think Grievous ineptitude in the finer points of lightsaber combat and inability to wield the Force (and also his ignorance of Force lightning) 'make up' if you like for Revan's lesser strength in Force lightning.

 

But yes, Grievous can put trillions of battle droids between himself and Revan. However Revan is tactically superior to Grievous, smarter, and can see the bigger picture. He also has a sizable force himself, enough to hunt down and isolate Grievous and also have back-up plans if Grievous attempts to flee. (e.g. sabotage escape pods, ship etc.) A confrontation that G0-T0 will encourage.

[MasterMe]

What's Greivous's defense against force lighting?

 

As far as I know, he doesn't have a counter for it seeing as how he doesn't have the force. We see Jedi in the movies seemingly block lightning with their lightsaber, but it was my understanding that they were uding the force to direct the lightning into their lightsaber. Am I right or wrong? It just doesn't make since that a lightsaber could 'block' a bolt of electricity.

 

As for the magnaguards, wee see Ahsoka beat 2 or 3 of them at once on Tatooine during the Clone Wars movie. She was just 14 at the time I believe. Those guys aren't that great. They won't change the fact that Revan can and will kill Greivous.

[MasterMe]

Both good points, but there is also a major gap between Yoda's ability to wield and lightsaber and Grievous'. I think Grievous ineptitude in the finer points of lightsaber combat and inability to wield the Force (and also his ignorance of Force lightning) 'make up' if you like for Revan's lesser strength in Force lightning.

 

But yes, Grievous can put trillions of battle droids between himself and Revan. However Revan is tactically superior to Grievous, smarter, and can see the bigger picture. He also has a sizable force himself, enough to hunt down and isolate Grievous and also have back-up plans if Grievous attempts to flee. (e.g. sabotage escape pods, ship etc.) A confrontation that G0-T0 will encourage.

 

Preach it! I'm confident that Revan can and will get to Greivous.