Kaggath Tournament - Grievous vs Revan vs G0-T0

[Aurbere]

P.S. How does G0-T0 'manage Revan just fine' may I ask. Lets not be hypocritical and do what the fanbois do. At least the way I see it Revan can handle anything G0-T0 throws at him. Unless other factors such as Warren's scenario are involved.

 

Even if Revan does win (which is nigh impossible), his army will be decimated. G0-T0 can then sneak aboard Revan's flagship and have the ship self-destruct, with poor Revan having no idea.

 

Scratch that. He will bring some HK-50's along they will spread about the ship. They will set explosives in the escape pods and shuttles and rig the main reactor to blow. Revan will have no escape.

[Aurbere]

EDIT: Oh and Aurbere, don't call the next battle just yet. I for one have a perfectly logical argument for Traya's victory. I try not to put combatants in fights they can't win. Except Xizor, poor Xizor's just outmatched by everyone

 

But... B-But... But my argument would be absolutely hilarious! It would so illogical that it makes a Revan argument look smart! I wouldn't be serious, of course.

 

I wouldn't say Xizor's outmatched, but we shall wait and see.

[Beniboybling]

I wouldn't be so sure that Revan, even with G0-T0 working against him, would lose against Grievous. Revan is arguably a better tactician than Grievous, he can at least better perceive the bigger picture. He knows Grievous' power base is stronger than his, but he also knows all he has to do to win is kill Grievous. He would therefore put all his resources into tracking down Grievous and destroying him. This won't be hard to accomplish as Grievous will be leading the charge. Revan can set a trap and have Grievous surrounded so there is no chance of escape. Combined with his fleet, Sith and assassins he can close of all the exits.

 

And if Warren's scenario plays out G0-T0 isn't really going to care who wins. Taking them both out in one fell swoop rather than one at a time would be a better tactic. And in a huge battle between Revan and Grievous, Revan is going to be the one boarding, not Grievous the Cowardly. And what chance does he stand against Revan and Malak? They will surely seal of his escape routes, as will G0-T0. However G0-T0 will ensure Revan cannot escape either. And then have the ship blown to pieces. Oh G0-T0 you are far to clever.

[Aurbere]

I wouldn't be so sure that Revan, even with G0-T0 working against him, would lose against Grievous. Revan is arguably a better tactician than Grievous, he can at least better perceive the bigger picture. He knows Grievous' power base is stronger than his, but he also knows all he has to do to win is kill Grievous. He would therefore put all his resources into tracking down Grievous and destroying him. This won't be hard to accomplish as Grievous will be leading the charge. Revan can set a trap and have Grievous surrounded so there is no chance of escape. Combined with his fleet, Sith and assassins he can close of all the exits.

 

And if Warren's scenario plays out G0-T0 isn't really going to care who wins. Taking them both out in one fell swoop rather than one at a time would be a better tactic. And in a huge battle between Revan and Grievous, Revan is going to be the one boarding, not Grievous the Cowardly. And what chance does he stand against Revan and Malak? They will surely seal of his escape routes, as will G0-T0. However G0-T0 will ensure Revan cannot escape either. And then have the ship blown to pieces. Oh G0-T0 you are far to clever.

 

You forgot how Grievous escaped in Revenge of The Sith? He managed to escape the Battle of Coruscant.

[Beniboybling]

You forgot how Grievous escaped in Revenge of The Sith? He managed to escape the Battle of Coruscant.

The Republic weren't after Grievous, they were after the Chancellor. Imagine that scenario but with the escape pods sabotaged and the Soulless One destroyed. And with everyone on board tracking him down. Grievous would not have escaped.

[Segastorm]

Wait a minute what about that programming in HK-47 that got him his memory back once they served his original master, wouldn't that be in the HK-50s also?

[Aurbere]

The Republic weren't after Grievous, they were after the Chancellor. Imagine that scenario but with the escape pods sabotaged and the Soulless One destroyed. And with everyone on board tracking him down. Grievous would not have escaped.

 

Oh Yeah! Well... He can float over to one of his other cruisers and escape that way. Right? Yeah, I think so. He'll use his grapple thing.

 

How about this?. Revan confronts Grievous, Grievous flees. Grievous returns to the ship and finds his escape pods and shuttle destroyed. What does he do? Steals the ship Revan came in on. Revan now has one cruiser and the war continues.

[Canino]

G0-T0 can hold his own. He can stealth, and can shoot lightning(there is a picture!! Scroll down to the second pic) Anyway, G0-T0 will win. Every scenario is basically possible, from Warren, Star Squirrel or myself.

 

And Canino, bounty hunters don't tend to have dossiers or information on them. G0-T0 has no way of checking if she is a 'real' bounty hunter or not. In the criminal underworld you can be what you want. If Ventress says she a bounty hunter, she's a bounty hunter. She did actually become one after all, and no one ever got suspicious even though she used to be Dooku's apprentice and wielded lightsabers. Anything goes in the underworld.

 

This is true, but as Warren said, in a war, why would he reveal his ship/himself? No thanks! Also, I have another scenario. So G0-T0 has purchased a gravity well projector(no one has argued this at all) and through informats, knows that GG is attacking Reven fleet head on. Reven is also planning on attacking GG's fleet. G0-T0 plants the gravity projector and waits. Reven is ine hyperspace is suddenly pulled out! Then BOOM!!! GG's fleet slams into there fleet and all are dead.

 

Hard to pull off? Yes, but possible. Hyperspace travel was extremely dangerous because of crashes.

From wookiepdia

When moving at speeds many times the speed of light, there were many dangers. While any collision or interference at this state can be potentially fatal, the effects of gravitational pull on a starship could be particularly devastating, thus a course had to be plotted outside the "mass shadow" or gravity well of large celestial bodies. This was exploited in many ways through the ages. Hyperspace courses were often plotted using a planet's mass as a backstop, with the hyperdrive's safety systems automatically stopping the ship as it reached the farthest point of possible travel.

 

Hyperspace collisions, whether they be intentional or by accident, could devastate or even destroy a planet. Considering the fact that the output of the reactors of many Capital ships rivaled or eclipsed that of a star, and that the energies needed to make hyperspace travel possible were vast, one could unleash a great deal of destructive power on a target. Even if a planet had its planetary shielding up at the time of a hyperspace collision, it could still have the potential to kill millions on a world such as Coruscant just due to the fallout.[2] One of the more famous hyperspace accidents occurred during the Clone Wars, when the Star Battlecruiser Quaestor collided with the Separatist planet Pammant, fracturing it to its core.[3]

[Beniboybling]

Oh Yeah! Well... He can float over to one of his other cruisers and escape that way. Right? Yeah, I think so. He'll use his grapple thing.

 

How about this?. Revan confronts Grievous, Grievous flees. Grievous returns to the ship and finds his escape pods and shuttle destroyed. What does he do? Steals the ship Revan came in on. Revan now has one cruiser and the war continues.

Lol, no.

 

And lol no again. Firstly Revan ain't stupid, if you thought of it, Revan would have. And I expect his vessel would have been code locked anyway. And even if it wasn't remember that G0-T0 is involved and will cut off any remaining escape routes Revan misses. That is if G0-T0 is involved. But whoever survives, can they escape the trap?

[Aurbere]

Lol, no.

 

And lol no again. Firstly Revan ain't stupid, if you thought of it, Revan would have. And I expect his vessel would have been code locked anyway. And even if it wasn't remember that G0-T0 is involved and will cut off any remaining escape routes Revan misses. That is if G0-T0 is involved. But whoever survives, can they escape the trap?

 

*snaps fingers* That's it!

 

While Grievous and Revan are engaged in their little duel, G0-T0 blows the ship to kingdom come.

 

G0-T0 wins by taking them both out at the same time!

[Beniboybling]

*snaps fingers* That's it!

 

While Grievous and Revan are engaged in their little duel, G0-T0 blows the ship to kingdom come.

 

G0-T0 wins by taking them both out at the same time!

You don't say!

Edited January 19, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Aurbere]

You don't say!

 

Yes. Yes I do.

 

I think the general consensus of this debate was that G0-T0 was going to win. Which I agree with (that twisted droid and his machinations! ).

 

Can't wait for the next battle!

[MasterMe]

Geez I have barely done a thing in this debate. I would usually make a big push for Revan to win, but I'm feeling lazy today.

 

I still think Revan wins though.

[MasterMe]

Lol, no.

 

And lol no again. Firstly Revan ain't stupid, if you thought of it, Revan would have. And I expect his vessel would have been code locked anyway. And even if it wasn't remember that G0-T0 is involved and will cut off any remaining escape routes Revan misses. That is if G0-T0 is involved. But whoever survives, can they escape the trap?

 

No. Revan ain't stupid. Far from it. I'd like to address something that Canderous Odro says about Revan. I know he says at one point Revan used "mass deceptions." That doesn't mean much in and of itself, but it means that Revan is capable of setting up a clever tricks on both/either Greivous or G0-T0 as I've said. Revan is plenty cunning, and he's plenty powerful one-on-one.

[Beniboybling]

No. Revan ain't stupid. Far from it. I'd like to address something that Canderous Odro says about Revan. I know he says at one point Revan used "mass deceptions." That doesn't mean much in and of itself, but it means that Revan is capable of setting up a clever tricks on both/either Greivous or G0-T0 as I've said. Revan is plenty cunning, and he's plenty powerful one-on-one.

Indeed, if anyone has a chance of fooling G0-T0, it's him. We also have to remember that Grievous and Revan aren't ignorant of G0-T0's presence. Of course they'll have a hard time tracking G0-T0 down but they can still track his movements. And Revan's assassins will be very skilled in doing that. Just something to consider.

[Aurbere]

Indeed, if anyone has a chance of fooling G0-T0, it's him. We also have to remember that Grievous and Revan aren't ignorant of G0-T0's presence. Of course they'll have a hard time tracking G0-T0 down but they can still track his movements. And Revan's assassins will be very skilled in doing that. Just something to consider.

 

I'm sure the G0-T0 supporters will disagree.

[Canino]

Of course they'll have a hard time tracking G0-T0 down but they can still track his movements. And Revan's assassins will be very skilled in doing that. Just something to consider.

 

How so? He is a droid, he doesn't leave a footprint, and can't be sensed by force sensitives. If you capture a man and get that G0-T0's on the Visionary, big deal. Do you really think G0-T0 isn't at least moving around Nar Shadda, in some sort of orbit? And how would they find an invisible ship? They don't have the money to buy an invisible detector thingy. If you mean tracking his money, go ahead, but I'm sure that would be hard, and G0-T0 would know immediately.

[Aurbere]

How so? He is a droid, he doesn't leave a footprint, and can't be sensed by force sensitives. If you capture a man and get that G0-T0's on the Visionary, big deal. Do you really think G0-T0 isn't at least moving around Nar Shadda, in some sort of orbit? And how would they find an invisible ship? They don't have the money to buy an invisible detector thingy. If you mean tracking his money, go ahead, but I'm sure that would be hard, and G0-T0 would know immediately.

 

Not only that but he's an infrastructure planning droid. He's programmed to think of every contingency. His 'mind' is literally a supercomputer. He had pretty much the entire underworld coming after him for his actions. If the Hutts and other organizations couldn't deal with him, how can Revan or Grievous?

 

How can Revan or Grievous get their hands on the anti-stealth device? In this battle, G0-T0 controls the underworld. Revan and Grievous can't do much of anything without G0-T0 knowing.

 

I can only think of a few competitors in this Kaggath series that can topple G0-T0, and Revan and Grievous are not on that list.

[GarfieldJL]

Assuming they don't know the fact G0-T0 is a droid, then quite frankly G0-T0 is probably going to win this.

 

 

First, while everyone has a basic knowledge of each other, they don't know everything about each other.

 

The obvious target for Grievous is Revan, he has the military forces. "Goto" is just some two bit underworld princeling that likes using holograms rather than appearing in person.

 

Revan can't afford to ignore Grievous, so the initial fight is between Grievous and Revan.

 

Problem with this Kaggath is "Goto" would likely never have an issue with Revan being alive, he'd be more apt to bump off Malek, whom makes huge messes. I also don't see Revan having much issue with "Goto" either, so I'm not sure how you'd even get these two to fight each other in the first place.

 

Grievous however is a like an angry club, and I could see "Goto" taking down Grievous for making a huge mess in the galaxy.

 

Now, assuming they are all three going at each other, the individual that has the advantage is "Goto," they are unlikely to know he is a droid, meanwhile G0-T0 has hacked droids on planetary scales, he has a network that spans the galaxy. I think he could cause either of his opponents' flagship to suddenly explode while they are on it fairly easily.

 

That said, this Kaggath makes no sense, while Revan and Grievous are apt to duke it out, and Grievous and G0-T0, I don't see Revan and G0-T0 killing each other, because Revan is more apt to understand that "Goto" is a great asset to his larger plans, and would be more apt to want him to be an ally (face it Revan would understand having the criminal underworld backing him and providing intelligence would be a real asset to his rule); G0-T0 wouldn't want Revan dead because he would sure the galaxy was stable and not a complete mess...

 

So really, while I think G0-T0 would win regardless, this Kaggath would make more sense if it had been presented as Revan & G0-T0 vs. Grievous.

Edited January 20, 2013 by GarfieldJL

[Beniboybling]

Assuming they don't know the fact G0-T0 is a droid, then quite frankly G0-T0 is probably going to win this.

 

 

First, while everyone has a basic knowledge of each other, they don't know everything about each other.

 

The obvious target for Grievous is Revan, he has the military forces. "Goto" is just some two bit underworld princeling that likes using holograms rather than appearing in person.

 

Revan can't afford to ignore Grievous, so the initial fight is between Grievous and Revan.

 

Problem with this Kaggath is "Goto" would likely never have an issue with Revan being alive, he'd be more apt to bump off Malek, whom makes huge messes. I also don't see Revan having much issue with "Goto" either, so I'm not sure how you'd even get these two to fight each other in the first place.

 

Grievous however is a like an angry club, and I could see "Goto" taking down Grievous for making a huge mess in the galaxy.

 

Now, assuming they are all three going at each other, the individual that has the advantage is "Goto," they are unlikely to know he is a droid, meanwhile G0-T0 has hacked droids on planetary scales, he has a network that spans the galaxy. I think he could cause either of his opponents' flagship to suddenly explode while they are on it fairly easily.

 

That said, this Kaggath makes no sense, while Revan and Grievous are apt to duke it out, and Grievous and G0-T0, I don't see Revan and G0-T0 killing each other, because Revan is more apt to understand that "Goto" is a great asset to his larger plans, and would be more apt to want him to be an ally (face it Revan would understand having the criminal underworld backing him and providing intelligence would be a real asset to his rule); G0-T0 wouldn't want Revan dead because he would sure the galaxy was stable and not a complete mess...

 

So really, while I think G0-T0 would win regardless, this Kaggath would make more sense if it had been presented as Revan & G0-T0 vs. Grievous.

This Kaggath isn't meant to 'make sense' - it doesn't have a backstory. These guys don't have motives, their just fighting. Its a tournament, they all want the crown. That's why their fighting. Everyone likes crowns.

 

P.S. By tracking movements I didn't mean hunting down his stealth ship, that's why I said they couldn't track down G0-T0 I just meant monitor what he was doing in the underworld e.g. buying up forces, hiring mercenaries, dispatching them across the galaxy - so they could see the trap coming and evade it. But like Canino said, G0-T0 would be careful to cover up any tracks.

[Canino]

This Kaggath isn't meant to 'make sense' - it doesn't have a backstory. These guys don't have motives, their just fighting. Its a tournament, they all want the crown. That's why their fighting. Everyone likes crowns.

 

P.S. By tracking movements I didn't mean hunting down his stealth ship, that's why I said they couldn't track down G0-T0 I just meant monitor what he was doing in the underworld e.g. buying up forces, hiring mercenaries, dispatching them across the galaxy - so they could see the trap coming and evade it. But like Canino said, G0-T0 would be careful to cover up any tracks.

 

Yes I did!

[GarfieldJL]

Again though G0-T0 has the advantage over both Grievous and Revan, he is the most likely to be seriously under-estimated.

 

I mean seriously, I doubt Grievous would ever figure out that the crime boss "Goto" was really a droid... Revan probably wouldn't either.

 

From a Star Wars standpoint the idea of a droid being a criminal mastermind is simply crazy, they'd be wasting their time hunting for a guy that doesn't even exist.

 

Grievous attacking Nar Shaddaa, which I think he would do, is likely to backfire, you'd have the Hutts, smugglers, bounty hunters, etc. all gunning for Grievous if he did something that stupid.

 

As far as lackeys Hanharr is the most likely to die, but then again he wasn't really an underling of "Goto" to begin with...

 

As far as whom would win this, it would have to be G0-T0, he's playing by an entirely different set of rules from Grievous and Revan. His power base is totally different, he has no true base of operations, and they are likely to target Nar Shaddaa when "Goto" isn't even on Nar Shaddaa.

 

In all honesty, I still say this fight is ridiculous, because I really can't see Revan and G0-T0 ever seriously trying to bump each other off, they have the same goal, G0-T0 has no interest in ruling the galaxy, so he isn't likely to try to challenge Revan on that. Revan would be shooting himself in the foot if he went after G0-T0. I can see G0-T0 deciding to delete Grievous, but gunning for Revan would kind of be against G0-T0's personality.

 

Having G0-T0 gunning for Revan is like saying G0-T0 is out to plunge the galaxy into chaos, I mean seriously this fight is operating under the premise that G0-T0 would be behaving contrary to his personality and hence it wouldn't be G0-T0 fighting...

 

The we have Revan, whose goals included taking over the Republic, and strengthening it, keeping things stable. He wouldn't run around killing people that were potentially great assets to his rule. Having a criminal mastermind keeping the Hutts from causing you too much trouble, plus being able to supply incredibly detailed intelligence information would be a crime lord that he would try to court as being an ally. If Revan discovered his goals and "Goto's" goals were not only compatible but there was next to nothing in "Goto's" goals that interfered with Revan's own goals, there is no way that Revan would try bumping off such a useful individual. In fact if Revan found out that "Goto" was really a droid, then the odds of Revan gunning for "Goto" drop to practically zero...

 

If it were "Goto" vs. Malek, then I could see a fight, but Revan was significantly more patient than his apprentice, and for lack of a better term, Revan wasn't "an angry club."

 

In summary a fight between Revan and G0-T0, is completely contrary to how both these individuals would behave, Revan trying to eliminate someone that is a potential asset "for no particular reason except boredom," doesn't fit Revan's personality.

 

Also Revan was a stablizing force on the galaxy, as G0-T0 himself stated to the Exile, thus "Goto" wouldn't really have much reason to kill Revan... "Goto's" goal was a stable galaxy, he didn't care who ran it, so him gunning for a stabilizing power would be entirely contrary to "Goto's" core programing.

 

To get these two to fight would mean that Revan wasn't Revan; and G0-T0 isn't G0-T0. Them attacking each other is completely out of charecter.

[Aurbere]

To get these two to fight would mean that Revan wasn't Revan; and G0-T0 isn't G0-T0. Them attacking each other is completely out of charecter.

 

Well... maybe Grievous told Revan that G0-T0 said that he's a loser.

 

Or maybe Revan doesn't like the idea of a droid running a big crime syndicate.

[Beniboybling]

Garfield, your completely missing the point of the Kaggath. These characters don't need a reason to fight, they don't even exist in the same time period, were just debating what would happen if these powers had their power bases pitted against each other. You can make hypothetical scenario's if you like, but that's not how I run this thing, they're just there, their fighting. They're competing for victory, nothing more.

[GarfieldJL]

Garfield, your completely missing the point of the Kaggath. These characters don't need a reason to fight, they don't even exist in the same time period, were just debating what would happen if these powers had their power bases pitted against each other. You can make hypothetical scenario's if you like, but that's not how I run this thing, they're just there, their fighting. They're competing for victory, nothing more.

 

Okay so what would you say if HK-47 spontaneously decided to kill Revan one day just cause? --- Seems ridiculous

 

The problem here is you're having 2 charecters behaving in a manner that is in complete contradiction to their charecters.

 

1. Time Difference between 2 of the 3 chars is at most only a decade.

At most Revan at the height of his power as a Sith was only a decade before G0-T0 was running his criminal enterprise.

 

2. Personality traits, how charecters would behave.

 

G0-T0

If we assume G0-T0 believed Revan was turning the galaxy into a mess, then yes he would delete Revan. However, if G0-T0 looked at the patterns in Revan's behavior (such as leaving infrastructure intact, strengthening things, etc.) then he would be forced to change his assessment of Revan (and yes there is a conversation in KotOR II where G0-T0 suggests Revan should have stayed as a figurehead to rally the Republic (guessing same is true with Darkside Revan).

 

Remember G0-T0 is a droid, he isn't as prone to ego trips as organics are (he has an ego, but he isn't an ego-maniac)

 

Revan

Then we have Revan whom is trying to strengthen the Republic against an outside threat (and rule it)... Why would he want to have "Goto" killed if all he's doing is preventing the Hutts from causing problems? Revan wasn't one to spontaneously conduct rampages of mass violence, even when he was Darth Revan.

 

Seriously, he often tried to capture Jedi alive, not kill them and there was a reason for it; for him to kill "Goto" for absolutely no reason, quite frankly is way out of charecter (even when Revan was a Darksider). Revan inspired loyalty for a reason, and it wasn't simply fear that caused people to follow him.

 

Upon discovering "Goto's" motivations (and the fact "Goto" has no interest in ruling), Revan would know that "Goto's" goals fit perfectly with Revan's objectives. Securing "Goto's" allegience would give him an intelligence network that was substancially better than Revan's own intelligence networks. Killing "Goto" would mean that network is destroyed and he loses an incredible asset...

 

I think this Kaggath is the first one where we have to seriously look at motivations of various charecters...

 

Grievous is a no brainer, both Revan and G0-T0 would want Grievous dead (or deleted), he's a homicidal maniac that just wrecks things on planetary and galactic scales...

 

Query: Is it possible for someone to fake their death in this fight? Cause I actually could see Revan destroying a droid that used to be G0-T0, and say G0-T0's dead so he technically "wins" that way. Could also see G0-T0 stopping Revan's heart with something so Revan "dies" and then is given an antidote to resuscitate him in order to "win."

 

I think G0-T0 would win this fairly easily, but by the same token I don't see any real motivation for him to kill Revan (now if it were gunning down Kreia for instance, that would be different), but considering the fact Revan's objectives would match G0-T0's without interfering with each other, I really don't think this Kaggeth would ever reach a conclusion, because there would be no motivation for them to bump each other off.

 

Well... maybe Grievous told Revan that G0-T0 said that he's a loser.

 

That's assuming Revan is stupid enough to believe Mr. "Time to Abandon Ship..."

 

Or maybe Revan doesn't like the idea of a droid running a big crime syndicate.

 

Did you ever play KotOR II? Revan is the one that built HK-47 and had him programmed to call people "Meatbags..."

 

In fact discovering "Goto" is a droid would make him even less likely to attack G0-T0, because he doesn't have to worry about "Goto" killing him because they have similar objectives that are compatible.

Edited January 20, 2013 by GarfieldJL
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