Kaggath Tournament - Grievous vs Revan vs G0-T0

[StarSquirrel]

Guys we established this in every Kaggath Grievous has been in.

 

Grievous is cocky, arrogant, smart and powerful. But he's a coward through and through. He will NEVER solo anyone EVER unless he's cornered.

 

Between that and Ventress, Magnaguards, and the entirety of the droid army, no matter how strong Revan and his assassins each are, they're not going to reach him. And if they (somehow) do manage to, he'll run.

 

G0-T0's advantage in this area is twofold. First off, he is a computer. Thus he can (he almost HAS to) think of every possible outcome and strategy. Combine this with the sheer amount of information he'll have through bribes, slicing, and observation throughout the war and he'll be more than ready to eliminate Grievous. By removing every possible escape option then overwhelming him.

 

I also agree that he can eventually just convert GG's powerbase into his own and win anyway. So G0-T0 still on top.

[Darkondo]

That's another thing. If an HK assassination fails on either side, they can rip apart his memory core and find the HK factory or even the Yacht. If G0-T0 sends an organic assassin to kill Revan, he will just use the Dark Side to rip any information from him. This would be especially effective on those that have been on G0-T0's Yacht.

 

I can cover this up, anytime a droid is used to being traced where G0-T0's signal is coming from it short circuits or self-destructs and leaves no trace KOTOR2 confirms this. Also anyone that has been on G0-T0's yacht has no way of getting back there unless invited Mira states this again on KOTOR2 so even if G0-T0 sent an organic assassin after Revan and Revan ripped his mind of info he still wouldnt be able to find it.

Edited January 19, 2013 by Darkondo

[Wolfninjajedi]

I can cover this up, anytime a droid is used to being traced where G0-T0's signal is coming from it short circuits or self-destructs KOTOR2 confirms this. Also anyone that has been on G0-T0's yacht has no way of getting back there unless invited Mira states this again on KOTOR2 so even if G0-T0 sent an organic assassin after Revan and Revan ripped his mind of info he still couldnt find it

 

He would know its at Nar Shadda however, somewhere in that area.

Edited January 19, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Darkondo]

He would know its at Nar Shadda however, somewhere in that area.

 

"If you were hunting for Goto's yacht your freighter would be flying blind." -Mira

[StarSquirrel]

I feel as if this whole "G0-T0 can't be found" bit is getting extremely old. The combatants aren't morons, its not like they wouldn't be able to use a destroyed HK's memory core(or whatever droid G0-T0 employs) or capture one of his mercenaries and bribe him to tell where G0-T0 is operating. Even if they can't, whats to stop them from figuring out...

 

"Well gee...some guy is hiring mercenaries to come and destroy us, now what possible locations might be where you can find shady people at who can be hired for credits?"

 

But Wolf, G0-T0 doesn't have any stationary bases or forces to actually engage and isn't an obvious looming threat. Whereas both the other combatants do and are, so naturally they're going to fight the visible threat first. Also, G0-T0 can bide his time, he's not going to jut into a major fight and throw pebbles at them yelling "I'm over here!!!! KILL MEEE!!!!" which is what he'd be doing. Striking from the shadows is his style.

 

I'd blame Beni for pitting these three in this set-up. If it was 1v1 both these guys might have a chance against G0-T0, but now they're going to be too busy with each other to chase the invisible ship instead of worrying about the massive fleet in their backyard.

Edited January 19, 2013 by StarSquirrel

[Darkondo]

But Wolf, G0-T0 doesn't have any stationary bases or forces to actually engage and isn't an obvious looming threat. Whereas both the other combatants do and are, so naturally they're going to fight the visible threat first. Also, G0-T0 can bide his time, he's not going to jut into a major fight and throw pebbles at them yelling "I'm over here!!!! KILL MEEE!!!!" which is what he'd be doing. Striking from the shadows is his style.

 

I'd blame Beni for pitting these three in this set-up. If it was 1v1 both these guys might have a chance against G0-T0, but now they're going to be too busy with each other to chase the invisible ship instead of worrying about the massive fleet in their backyard.

 

^This

 

Both Darth Revan and Grievous have superior forces, but theyll be too busy focused on each other to look for G0-T0 thus destroying each other, mostly anyway.

[Airmo]

So..why does GG get trillions of droids to use? Isn't that a bit unfair? =/ Just been meaning to ask that..

[Wolfninjajedi]

Being that G0-T0's main power is from Nar Shadda I doubt he would leave it so that the enemy can come and take it over. Nar Shadda is where his power is most heavy, but lets take in some factors here....what is stopping from either GG or Revan using Interdictor cruisers and stopping G0-T0 from leaving the Nar Shadda area? Then pretty much he is a sitting duck just waiting to be found, seeing as he wouldn't be able to escape.

 

But again Nar Shadda is where his power is, and I don't see him leaving it. If he does, then he pretty much throws all of his money away, thus no mercenaries or any tech at all.

Edited January 19, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Aurbere]

I'd blame Beni for pitting these three in this set-up. If it was 1v1 both these guys might have a chance against G0-T0, but now they're going to be too busy with each other to chase the invisible ship instead of worrying about the massive fleet in their backyard.

 

I have to agree. While G0-T0's involvement makes it interesting, it also makes it difficult for the others to anything against him. Truthfully, only Xizor had a really good chance at beating G0-T0. With the match-ups that have been set up, I think it will come down to Xizor vs. G0-T0. I have faith that Exar Kun could beat Xizor, but I'm going to just go with that for now (going to argue for Exar Kun though).

 

Either way, Grievous beats Revan and G0-T0 uses his tech to sweep Grievous' powerbase away.

 

Personally, I was hoping for Grievous vs. Exar Kun vs. Darth Revan. A battle Kun would win eventually.

[Aurbere]

So..why does GG get trillions of droids to use? Isn't that a bit unfair? =/ Just been meaning to ask that..

 

Because he did have trillions (more than that actually).

 

Don't see what's unfair about that. That would be like calling Naga Sadow's visions unfair. Or Kun's millions unfair. Or Xizor's bottomless pockets unfair. These are their tools.

Edited January 19, 2013 by Aurbere

[Airmo]

Because he did have trillions (more than that actually).

 

True but again..isn't that a bit unfair?

[Wolfninjajedi]

Because he did have trillions (more than that actually).

 

Don't see what's unfair about that. That would be like calling Naga Sadow's visions unfair. Or Kun's millions unfair. Or Xizor's bottomless pockets unfair. These are their tools.

 

Hey now! Xizor worked his *** off for his money! Both legally and illegally!

Edited January 19, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[StarSquirrel]

Being that G0-T0's main power is from Nar Shadda I doubt he would leave it so that the enemy can come and take it over. Nar Shadda is where his power is most heavy, but lets take in some factors here....what is stopping from either GG or Revan using Interdictor cruisers and stopping G0-T0 from leaving the Nar Shadda area? Then pretty much he is a sitting duck just waiting to be found, seeing as he wouldn't be able to escape.

 

But again Nar Shadda is where his power is, and I don't see him leaving it. If he does, then he pretty much throws all of his money away, thus no mercenaries or any tech at all.

 

Wolf, he has the Holonet and plenty of other methods of communication. While his power is greatest at Nar Shadda yes, he doesn't actually have to be there to exercise it.

 

Secondly, I can see what you mean about someone (probably GG) just slagging the planet but honestly there are other centers for Black Market goods (like stealth) and would have been his only real loss. Loyalty means nothing on Nar Shadda so it's not like he's lost a lot of loyal allies that he can't replace with credits.

 

Honestly, G0-T0 doesn't need Nar Shadda and he'd stay on the move when he knows the war is on anyway. I see why you're frustrated Wolf, G0-T0 seems untouchable, but unfortunately it takes a special enemy to kill G0-T0 and Grievous might have been able to do it, but he'll be too busy for just long enough.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Wolf, he has the Holonet and plenty of other methods of communication. While his power is greatest at Nar Shadda yes, he doesn't actually have to be there to exercise it.

 

Secondly, I can see what you mean about someone (probably GG) just slagging the planet but honestly there are other centers for Black Market goods (like stealth) and would have been his only real loss. Loyalty means nothing on Nar Shadda so it's not like he's lost a lot of loyal allies that he can't replace with credits.

 

Honestly, G0-T0 doesn't need Nar Shadda and he'd stay on the move when he knows the war is on anyway. I see why you're frustrated Wolf, G0-T0 seems untouchable, but unfortunately it takes a special enemy to kill G0-T0 and Grievous might have been able to do it, but he'll be too busy for just long enough.

 

Point, but thats where his main source of income and power is. If he loses Nar Shadda he'll take a big hit to his credits and probably lose some guys too cause he wouldn't be able to keep paying them. He doesn't have bottomless pockets like Xizor.

Edited January 19, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Aurbere]

True but again..isn't that a bit unfair?

 

It isn't unfair because he did have trillions. This is war my friend and nothing in war is fair. This is how Grievous' army operates: overwhelming numbers. Just like Naga Sadow fought his war with illusions. Just like G0-T0 operates in the shadows. Just like Traya backstabs everything in sight.

 

Unfair? Sure, but more often than not, war isn't fair.

[Warren-Stride]

How the heck did I miss this much?

 

Luckily it seems like G0-T0's coming out on top. Good choice guys.

 

Basically: How do General Grievous or Revan plan on killing G0-T0? They really can't. They don't have anti-stealth tech. Giant armies are irrelevant. Attacking Nar Shaddaa is suicide as the entire underworld turns against you.

 

Can we talk about Nar Shaddaa/ the Underworld?

 

Any major power that tries to take over Nar Shaddaa will be fought back by the galaxies best smugglers, bounty hunters, and assorted criminals. If either Grievous or Revan attack 1.) troops will be highly ineffective on the "ground" and 2.) Literally everyone in the quadrant would hate them. Not to mention that G0-To and his merry band of assassins can simply move off the world and go to Hutta if need be.

 

Also, without any major powers (including those in the underworld) what's stopping G0-T0 from employing the now jobless criminals of the galaxy? Offer them credits that the Exchange has plenty of in return for working with them. Put bounties on Grievous's and Revan's heads to have every bounty hunter in the galaxy after them.

 

Which leads to assassins and G0-T0's grand plan.

 

G0-T0 will not engage in actual combat. He will sit on his stealthed ship and send out wave after wave of assassins to kill the leaders and/or other important people in his enemies forces. When asked to make a scenario in which G0-T0 would win, I think "1 for every assassin he has". That's a lot of attempts. They're bound to succeed once.

 

I don't see any way for Grievous or Revan to kill G0-T0. But for every Exchange bounty hunter, every Zhug Brother, every HK-50, every Gand, and every Ubese attempt, there's one way Grievous and Revan could be brought down.

 

I see Grievous's battledroids sweeping the galaxy, battling Revan's forces and eventually overwhelming them with sheer numbers. Revan or Grievous may be assassinated during this time. Weakened, Revan retreats and the CIS presses the advantage, but the lack of ability to actually kill Revan drags out the war. Revan or Grievous could be assassinated during this time. Revan eventually dies by bombardment, 2v1 duel, etc. G0-T0 strikes at Grievous, maybe even using his stealth to assassinate the general personally.

 

Win G0-T0!

[Aurbere]

Hey now! Xizor worked his *** off for his money! Both legally and illegally!

 

Right! Is him having lots of money unfair? Sure, but he has it anyway. I think the only one who can beat Xizor is Traya or Kun. Traya because of her subtle manipulations and Kun for his sheer power. Though I could see Xizor making it to the final battle, a battle that he would win if G0-T0 wins this.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Warren G0-T0 doesn't have bottomless pockets of credits to just throw away, he operates on just Nar Shadda theres only so many guys he can hire. At best G0-T0 could be trillionaire, seeing as he runs the Exchange cell on Nar Shadda. Edited January 19, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[StarSquirrel]

Point, but thats where his main source of income is. If he loses Nar Shadda he'll take a big hit to his credits. He doesn't have bottomless pockets like Xizor.

 

Hmm, hadn't thought of that. Though I'd bet he has a stash and off world bank accounts and other ways to make up income. So it'd probably be almost a non issue in this fight.

 

Though it's something to keep in mind if he fights Xizor that his income would be a smaller "bottomless pit" so to speak. and the destruction of Nar Shadda in that fight might tip the balance

 

Edit: Eh, I wouldn't put it past G0-T0 to expand his business empire in the event of a war. It'd wouldn't reach anywhere near Xizor's but it wouldn't be insubstantial. Plus G0-T0 can always just become the top exchange boss rather easily. Acquiring their assets would be plenty for most of his purposes.

Edited January 19, 2013 by StarSquirrel

[Warren-Stride]

Point, but thats where his main source of income and power is. If he loses Nar Shadda he'll take a big hit to his credits and probably lose some guys too cause he wouldn't be able to keep paying them. He doesn't have bottomless pockets like Xizor.

 

The Exchange is MUCH more than just Nar Shaddaa. Losing it (which won't happen, and if it does it only makes the entire underworld side with him) would take away his HQ, but not even a frantion of the Excahnge's wealth or influence. They're a galaxy-wide crime organization, losing one planet out of hundreds (even if it's Nar Shaddaa) won't cause them to be unable to pay men.

[Aurbere]

Warren G0-T0 doesn't have bottomless pockets of credits to just throw away, he operates on just Nar Shadda theres only so many guys he can hire. At best G0-T0 could be trillionaire, seeing as he runs the Exchange cell on Nar Shadda.

 

That's still alot of money! I'm not gonna give details, but I wish I had that kinda money!

[Airmo]

It isn't unfair because he did have trillions. This is war my friend and nothing in war is fair. This is how Grievous' army operates: overwhelming numbers. Just like Naga Sadow fought his war with illusions. Just like G0-T0 operates in the shadows. Just like Traya backstabs everything in sight.

 

Unfair? Sure, but more often than not, war isn't fair.

 

This isn't war, it's a Kaggath, one that has set rules.

[Wolfninjajedi]

The Exchange is MUCH more than just Nar Shaddaa. Losing it (which won't happen, and if it does it only makes the entire underworld side with him) would take away his HQ, but not even a frantion of the Excahnge's wealth or influence. They're a galaxy-wide crime organization, losing one planet out of hundreds (even if it's Nar Shaddaa) won't cause them to be unable to pay men.

 

Yes but the Exchange is ran by different guys, not just 1 person. G0-T0 operates just on Nar Shadda, that is his power base which means he can't get help from any of the other Exchanges bosses.

[Warren-Stride]

He operates on just Nar Shadda theres only so many guys he can hire. At best G0-T0 could be trillionaire, seeing as he runs the Exchange cell on Nar Shadda.

 

He's one of the most powerful leaders of the Exchange, which was much more than just one planet. They were rivals with the Hutt Cartel. It wasn't some gang. It was THE Exchange, feared and respected throughout the galaxy. For proof look at Taris and Telos. Even Coruscant. He did not operate "just" out of Nar Shaddaa.

[Aurbere]

This isn't war, it's a Kaggath, one that has set rules.

 

It is a war between powerbases, and the trillions of droids is Grievous' powerbase. Take away that then you may as well deprive G0-T0 of his HK-50's and Revan of his Dark Jedi.