Kaggath Tournament - Grievous vs Revan vs G0-T0

[Segastorm]

Agreed, with the sole fact grievous's fighting force is mass-produced in a factory instead of born, raised, then trained, it would give grievous an army that's a lot larger than either GO-TO or Revan could hope to amass in the same amount of time. Not to mention his army is a lot more flexible.

[MasterMe]

You think Grievous is that stupid? Grievous would bring his Elite Guard with him. You know what? Bring a couple thousand battle droids too. Grievous will do anything to secure his victory.

 

 

 

Indeed? How many of Revan's assassins are as skilled as Count Dooku and Kit Fisto? What type of weaponry does Revan's forces have to penetrate Grievous' Duranium armor? Grievous has lived through a lot of stuff.

 

 

 

I don't know. Bring a couple million battle droids, destroyer droids, Magnaguards and heavy tanks? Don't even tell me Revan and his "assassins" can beat millions of battle droids.

 

 

 

G0-T0 doesn't need an army, though he has an HK army. G0-T0 will have an easier time killing Grievous than Revan will. G0-T0's wait and see tactic will take advantage of the weakened state of the victor (obviously Grievous) to get him a victory. Whether or not this tactic works remains to be seen.

 

I'm not saying that Revan could beat all those battle droids. I'm saying that he is more then capable of escaping from them.

[Canino]

My god! Go to sleep and suddenly you miss 8+ pages. And I see Warren is here. How you doing? Star Squirrel and I held the defenses. So, lets move on...

 

Another scenario I have would be for G0-T0 to actually be at the final fight. Everyone knows when the last straw is broken, or when the fight is about to go up. He would know when and where the last fight is. AS GG and Reven are about to get to said location...BOOM Gravity well projector pulls them out. They are face to face with the enemy. As the begin to attack and dog fights erupt, no one notices the small CIS ship docking on GG's flag ship. Bounty Hunters, assassins, and HK's pop out, and hack into the security, shutting it down. They then move into position, and sabotage everything in sight. Escape pods, bombs in rooms, everything. They then retreat away from the ship. The fight continues, and they do the same to Reven's ship. They leave the battlefield to let GG and Reven destroy themselves.

 

EDIT: Why did I ever ask where the Reven fanboys were?!

Edited January 19, 2013 by Canino

[Beniboybling]

OK, it seems some points need to be addressed here, so here goes:

 

Concerning the Tri-Battle format, there's been some talk calling it 'unfair' for Grievous and Revan. May I first say that war, even Kaggaths, are never fair. If they were there would never be a winner, someone has to have the advantage. However in this case it seems pretty fair. In 1v1 Kaggaths the guy with the biggest army always has a considerable advantage. He can just throw everything he's got at the small mobile force until it dies. In a Tri-Battle, combatants are forced to adapt, they are pushed to the limit. The likes of Grievous and Revan can no longer rely on the numbers of their forces, they have to use guile and tact to overwhelm their enemies. And finally the little guys are in their element, and are given an actual chance of winning. This is what they are designed to do, lurk in the shadows, pull the strings and strike at the perfect moment. Basically in the Kaggath, at some point everyone gets to play to their strengths. This is G0-T0's time. We also have to remember that superior numbers don't win Kaggath's, superior intellect does. 'One part duel, one part large-scale dejarik match'.

 

Concerning G0-T0 and his powerbase. This was covered in the G0-T0 vs Tyber Zann Kaggath. G0-T0 as the head of a planetary cell of the Exchange cannot command the forces of other Exchange bosses, or milk their connections. However as an Exchange boss he does have presumably unlimited access to Exchange resources in terms of credits and influence. Ultimately though, G0-T0 only has so much power, he answers to his own bosses.

 

Concerning Grievous vs Revan. Some people seem to think Grievous would wipe the floor with Revan in such a battle. But at least in my opinion I don't think this is the case. Lets look at this in detail:

 

Lightsaber abilities: Grievous was taught several forms of lightsaber combat by Dooku, but he never mastered any of them, and he lacked finesse - his technique was sloppy. Yes he partially made up for this by wielding four at a time and holding the added benefits of having several, adaptable limbs, but he lacked the Force. To wield a lightsaber to its full potential, you need the Force. His battles also seem to suggest that he is more adapted to fighting multiple opponents than a single attacker.

 

Revan on the other hand had the Force and was a renowned and exemplary duelist, and was arguably the most powerful Jedi of his age. As a Sith Lord his powers grew exponentially. He has proven himself against deadly adversaries such as Malak, Bandon, Nyriss, terateneks and the Imperial Guard. I highly doubt a cyborg non-Force sensitive could surpass an exemplary Jedi. He failed to defeat Anakin, Obi-Wan, Kit-Fisto etc. who were arguably just as skilled. And lets not forget Asajj Ventress, who is only a dark side adept.

 

Force powers: This is the most important point to consider as Grievous had none, only his repulsorlift legs and general enhancements. Revan has the Force, and its highly skilled in wielding it. I mean the guy could throw giant rocks at people! But what really gives Revan the edge here is Force lightning. Aurbere says we can't reach conclusions, but I believe we can. Grievous is part droid and droids and electricity don't mix. Take Vader, when struck by Sidious' lightning his impenetrable armour was useless, the lightning ripped through his life support systems just as it would Grievous'. Especially since Grievous' organs are partially exposed and highly flammable. What's to stop Revan ripping open Grievous' chest and planting a bolt of lightining in it? Grievous has no Force barrier to protect him from such an attack.

 

And to highlight my point in the Star Wars 'Head to Head' book Grievous was paired in a hypothetical duel with Emperor Palpatine. The outcome was Palpatine, cackling, unleashes a torrent of Force lightning, which immobilises Grievous. Then Palpatine uses the Force to crush his gut sack. This is how the fight would go. Yes the book is non-canon, but only because these fights never happened, it is canon in the sense that this is how the fights would turn out if they had happened. We can therefore assume that Force lightening can immobilise Grievous.

 

And concerning G0-T0. Most of the support seems to be with Grievous so I'll throw a few points in. If G0-T0 were to win this it would most likely be accomplished by blowing up his opponents capital ships. Both Revan and Grievous will be on the front lines, this has a canon basis, and G0-T0 is going to have a hard time killing these guys with convential means. Even his HK-50 droids would struggle and most likely fail agains these juggernaughts, especially if they have their allies at their side. But these guys aren't immune to explosions.

 

P.S. Oh Aurbere, does your Revan-hate extend to Malak too? Malak betrayed him! C'mon give him some slack. Asajj Ventress is not stronger than him! She's not even a Sith Lord, just a dark side adept, a pawn! She's tough, yes but Malak was one of the most skilled swordsmen of his time. I really think Ventress is outmatched here, but thats just my opinion, fight me!

 

Oh and if you accept that Grievous beats Revan, you also have to accept Ventress beats Revan (like uses-him-to mop-his-own-blood-of-the-floor beat him) But you probably do so whatever.

[Darkondo]

OK, it seems some points need to be addressed here, so here goes:Concerning Grievous vs Revan. Some people seem to think Grievous would wipe the floor with Revan in such a battle. But at least in my opinion I don't think this is the case. Lets look at this in detail:

 

Lightsaber abilities: Grievous was taught several forms of lightsaber combat by Dooku, but he never mastered any of them, and he lacked finesse - his technique was sloppy. Yes he partially made up for this by wielding four at a time and holding the added benefits of having several, adaptable limbs, but he lacked the Force. To wield a lightsaber to its full potential, you need the Force. His battles also seem to suggest that he is more adapted to fighting multiple opponents than a single attacker.

 

Revan on the other hand had the Force and was a renowned and exemplary duelist, and was arguably the most powerful Jedi of his age. As a Sith Lord his powers grew exponentially. He has proven himself against deadly adversaries such as Malak, Bandon, Nyriss, terateneks and the Imperial Guard. I highly doubt a cyborg non-Force sensitive could surpass an exemplary Jedi. He failed to defeat Anakin, Obi-Wan, Kit-Fisto etc. who were arguably just as skilled. And lets not forget Asajj Ventress, who is only a dark side adept.

 

Force powers: This is the most important point to consider as Grievous had none, only his repulsorlift legs and general enhancements. Revan has the Force, and its highly skilled in wielding it. I mean the guy could throw giant rocks at people! But what really gives Revan the edge here is Force lightning. Aurbere says we can't reach conclusions, but I believe we can. Grievous is part droid and droids and electricity don't mix. Take Vader, when struck by Sidious' lightning his impenetrable armour was useless, the lightning ripped through his life support systems just as it would Grievous'. Especially since Grievous' organs are partially exposed and highly flammable. What's to stop Revan ripping open Grievous' chest and planting a bolt of lightining in it? Grievous has no Force barrier to protect him from such an attack.

 

And to highlight my point in the Star Wars 'Head to Head' book Grievous was paired in a hypothetical duel with Emperor Palpatine. The outcome was Palpatine, cackling, unleashes a torrent of Force lightning, which immobilises Grievous. Then Palpatine uses the Force to crush his gut sack. This is how the fight would go. Yes the book is non-canon, but only because these fights never happened, it is canon in the sense that this is how the fights would turn out if they had happened. We can therefore assume that Force lightening can immobilise Grievous.

 

And concerning G0-T0. Most of the support seems to be with Grievous so I'll throw a few points in. If G0-T0 were to win this it would most likely be accomplished by blowing up his opponents capital ships. Both Revan and Grievous will be on the front lines, this has a canon basis, and G0-T0 is going to have a hard time killing these guys with convential means. Even his HK-50 droids would struggle and most likely fail agains these juggernaughts, especially if they have their allies at their side. But these guys aren't immune to explosions.

 

P.S. Oh Aurbere, does your Revan-hate extend to Malak too? Malak betrayed him! C'mon give him some slack. Asajj Ventress is not stronger than him! She's not even a Sith Lord, just a dark side adept, a pawn! She's tough, yes but Malak was one of the most skilled swordsmen of his time. I really think Ventress is outmatched here, but thats just my opinion, fight me!

 

Oh and if you accept that Grievous beats Revan, you also have to accept Ventress beats Revan (like uses-him-to mop-his-own-blood-of-the-floor beat him) But you probably do so whatever.

 

One thing Revan in this fight is Darth Revan, hes not Jedi Revan, Revan Reborn, or Foundry Revan so alot of his accomplishments you mentioned he did as Jedi or Foundry Revan, states in his life where he was stronger than when he was as a sith. That being said I agree with everything you said above.

[Beniboybling]

One thing Revan in this fight is Darth Revan, hes not Jedi Revan, Revan Reborn, or Foundry Revan so alot of his accomplishments you mentioned he did as Jedi or Foundry Revan, states in his life where he was stronger than when he was as a sith. That being said I agree with everything you said above.

That is a good point, but even as a Sith Lord he was close to the strength of 'Revan Reborn' - 80% at the most.

[MasterMe]

OK, it seems some points need to be addressed here, so here goes:

 

Concerning the Tri-Battle format, there's been some talk calling it 'unfair' for Grievous and Revan. May I first say that war, even Kaggaths, are never fair. If they were there would never be a winner, someone has to have the advantage. However in this case it seems pretty fair. In 1v1 Kaggaths the guy with the biggest army always has a considerable advantage. He can just throw everything he's got at the small mobile force until it dies. In a Tri-Battle, combatants are forced to adapt, they are pushed to the limit. The likes of Grievous and Revan can no longer rely on the numbers of their forces, they have to use guile and tact to overwhelm their enemies. And finally the little guys are in their element, and are given an actual chance of winning. This is what they are designed to do, lurk in the shadows, pull the strings and strike at the perfect moment. Basically in the Kaggath, at some point everyone gets to play to their strengths. This is G0-T0's time. We also have to remember that superior numbers don't win Kaggath's, superior intellect does. 'One part duel, one part large-scale dejarik match'.

 

Concerning G0-T0 and his powerbase. This was covered in the G0-T0 vs Tyber Zann Kaggath. G0-T0 as the head of a planetary cell of the Exchange cannot command the forces of other Exchange bosses, or milk their connections. However as an Exchange boss he does have presumably unlimited access to Exchange resources in terms of credits and influence. Ultimately though, G0-T0 only has so much power, he answers to his own bosses.

 

Concerning Grievous vs Revan. Some people seem to think Grievous would wipe the floor with Revan in such a battle. But at least in my opinion I don't think this is the case. Lets look at this in detail:

 

Lightsaber abilities: Grievous was taught several forms of lightsaber combat by Dooku, but he never mastered any of them, and he lacked finesse - his technique was sloppy. Yes he partially made up for this by wielding four at a time and holding the added benefits of having several, adaptable limbs, but he lacked the Force. To wield a lightsaber to its full potential, you need the Force. His battles also seem to suggest that he is more adapted to fighting multiple opponents than a single attacker.

 

Revan on the other hand had the Force and was a renowned and exemplary duelist, and was arguably the most powerful Jedi of his age. As a Sith Lord his powers grew exponentially. He has proven himself against deadly adversaries such as Malak, Bandon, Nyriss, terateneks and the Imperial Guard. I highly doubt a cyborg non-Force sensitive could surpass an exemplary Jedi. He failed to defeat Anakin, Obi-Wan, Kit-Fisto etc. who were arguably just as skilled. And lets not forget Asajj Ventress, who is only a dark side adept.

 

Force powers: This is the most important point to consider as Grievous had none, only his repulsorlift legs and general enhancements. Revan has the Force, and its highly skilled in wielding it. I mean the guy could throw giant rocks at people! But what really gives Revan the edge here is Force lightning. Aurbere says we can't reach conclusions, but I believe we can. Grievous is part droid and droids and electricity don't mix. Take Vader, when struck by Sidious' lightning his impenetrable armour was useless, the lightning ripped through his life support systems just as it would Grievous'. Especially since Grievous' organs are partially exposed and highly flammable. What's to stop Revan ripping open Grievous' chest and planting a bolt of lightining in it? Grievous has no Force barrier to protect him from such an attack.

 

And to highlight my point in the Star Wars 'Head to Head' book Grievous was paired in a hypothetical duel with Emperor Palpatine. The outcome was Palpatine, cackling, unleashes a torrent of Force lightning, which immobilises Grievous. Then Palpatine uses the Force to crush his gut sack. This is how the fight would go. Yes the book is non-canon, but only because these fights never happened, it is canon in the sense that this is how the fights would turn out if they had happened. We can therefore assume that Force lightening can immobilise Grievous.

 

And concerning G0-T0. Most of the support seems to be with Grievous so I'll throw a few points in. If G0-T0 were to win this it would most likely be accomplished by blowing up his opponents capital ships. Both Revan and Grievous will be on the front lines, this has a canon basis, and G0-T0 is going to have a hard time killing these guys with convential means. Even his HK-50 droids would struggle and most likely fail agains these juggernaughts, especially if they have their allies at their side. But these guys aren't immune to explosions.

 

P.S. Oh Aurbere, does your Revan-hate extend to Malak too? Malak betrayed him! C'mon give him some slack. Asajj Ventress is not stronger than him! She's not even a Sith Lord, just a dark side adept, a pawn! She's tough, yes but Malak was one of the most skilled swordsmen of his time. I really think Ventress is outmatched here, but thats just my opinion, fight me!

 

Oh and if you accept that Grievous beats Revan, you also have to accept Ventress beats Revan (like uses-him-to mop-his-own-blood-of-the-floor beat him) But you probably do so whatever.

 

Good point. For these reasons I feel that Revan could and will beat Revan in a duel. Revan will also have several assassins with him.

 

Remember' powerbases are useless if you can simply cut the head off of the snake. Revan will do just that. However I feel if I keep arguing this that I will repeat myself unecessarily. I'm going to move on and, for argument's sake, say that Revan does kill Greivous.

 

Beating G0-T0 will be no easy feat. But I can think of at least one solid way that Revan could find out info concerning G0-T0 and how to find him:

Assassins. They will capture one of G0-T0's men and torture him (this is what the assassins are best at!). Will this, alone, get Revan to G0-T0? No. But he willl learn much about his enemy and that his enemy is aboard a stealh ship over Nar Shaddaa. Now all that must be done is for Revan to discover a way to reveal a stealthed ship. This is possible. Not easy, but possible.

 

Once Revan finds G0-T0's yacht, he blows it up. If he can't do that (which would be silly) then he'll send aboard dozens of assassins and perhaps Malak. Revan will stay back and watch the fireworks from a shuttle. If he sees any sign of escape, he'll jump on it like a hawk.

 

NOTE: of the 3 people in this Kaggath, Revan is the only force-user. He won't be easy to assassinate.

[Warren-Stride]

Beating G0-T0 will be no easy feat. But I can think of at least one solid way that Revan could find out info concerning G0-T0 and how to find him:

 

Assassins. They will capture one of G0-T0's men and torture him (this is what the assassins are best at!). Will this, alone, get Revan to G0-T0? No. But he willl learn much about his enemy and that his enemy is aboard a stealh ship over Nar Shaddaa. Now all that must be done is for Revan to discover a way to reveal a stealthed ship. This is possible. Not easy, but possible.

 

Once Revan finds G0-T0's yacht, he blows it up. If he can't do that (which would be silly) then he'll send aboard dozens of assassins and perhaps Malak. Revan will stay back and watch the fireworks from a shuttle. If he sees any sign of escape, he'll jump on it like a hawk.

 

NOTE: of the 3 people in this Kaggath, Revan is the only force-user. He won't be easy to assassinate.

 

I'm pretty sure everyone already knows at the start that G0-T0 is on Nar Shaddaa. Not sure if they know he has a stealthed ship, but if they do find out it won't help them any. Remember too that G0-T0's assassins/bounty hunters know nothing about him. They still think he's a human, after all.

 

I think people underestimate how hard it is to find a single stealthed ship in the hundreds of thousands of vessels going in and out of Nar Shaddaa. Good luck with that. It's like finding an invisible piece of straw in a stack of needles. While you're looking, every other ship from Nar Shaddaa will be slowly picking you apart.

 

The Visionary wasn't just an ol' ship either. Boarding it is probably a bad idea, and G0-T0 could always activate self destruct. Actually, boarding it would just make way for G0-T0 to sneak onto Revan's fleet. Blowing it up is still eaiser said than done. It's not a capital ship, and by the time they "find it" he could very well flee to the other side of Nar Shaddaa and recloak.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Visionary

-Controlled thousands of droids

-Heavy defenses inside and out

-Stealth Field

[Canino]

Beating G0-T0 will be no easy feat. But I can think of at least one solid way that Revan could find out info concerning G0-T0 and how to find him:

Assassins. They will capture one of G0-T0's men and torture him (this is what the assassins are best at!). Will this, alone, get Revan to G0-T0? No. But he willl learn much about his enemy and that his enemy is aboard a stealh ship over Nar Shaddaa. Now all that must be done is for Revan to discover a way to reveal a stealthed ship. This is possible. Not easy, but possible.

 

Once Revan finds G0-T0's yacht, he blows it up. If he can't do that (which would be silly) then he'll send aboard dozens of assassins and perhaps Malak. Revan will stay back and watch the fireworks from a shuttle. If he sees any sign of escape, he'll jump on it like a hawk.

 

NOTE: of the 3 people in this Kaggath, Revan is the only force-user. He won't be easy to assassinate.

 

Your plan involves going to Nar Shadda, since that's what G0-T0 controls. This just notifies G0-T0 that Reven is here, and he will plan accordingly. Say, have assassin waiting, or a bounty on Reven's head. Rile up the smugglers, and watch the show. Use his GRAVITY WELL PROJECTOR (thanks money:D) and ambush Reven with gorilla warfare. Reven isn't the only one with assassins. And you can't sense a droid, so they can get up close and personal. Assassination won't happen.

 

G0-T0 on the other hand could pretty easily kill Reven:

First, put a bounty of an unfathomable amount on Reven's head. This has every bounty hunter in the galaxy after Reven. Next, tell the smugglers that an invasion is coming, and to prepare for battle. G0-T0 then augments his own gear with all the illegal mods he can get. All of his troops would have this as well. Fourthly, plant the gravity well projector, and wait. Reven comes, and is pulled out of hyperspace, and into the clutches of the smuggler army. As the dogfight ensues, G0-T0, who has acquired a ship of Reven's, loads up assassins, bounty hunters, droids, and smuggler into it. They dock, and sabotage the flagship. After slicing the security, they move on, killing all in their path. They finally meet up with Reven, who attacks. Suddenly, the entire ship blows up, killing everyone. G0-T0 was on the ship, and planted bombs. His stealth came in handy. Even if Reven survives the explosion, he can't survive space.

 

That, or the assassins kill Reven and G0-T0 watches from his ship.

[Newyankalt]

Like that's gonna stop anyone!

 

I'm surprised these three were picked for this battle. I was hoping for Exar Kun vs. Grievous vs. Revan. Oh Well!

 

(Before I begin my analysis, which will be as unbias as possible, how much money does G0-T0 have? I think that should be addressed. This analysis will be posted under the impression that G0-T0 has bottomless pockets, or whatever a droid would keep credits in )

 

(And one more thing. How many ships did the Star Forge produce? And what kinds of ships were they?)

 

OK so, analysis time:

 

Land-

 

Troops numbers: Grievous commands an army of trillions(more than that, but trillions is a definite number) of battle droids that allowed him to expand the Clone Wars to every corner of the known galaxy. Darth Revan commanded an army of Dark Jedi, Sith Troopers and advanced War Droids. G0-T0 can hire as many people as he can and has a near limitless number HK-50 droids. Obviously Grievous wins, but G0-T0 comes in second here.

 

Troop Adaptability: Relatively equal here, but Grievous can build droids for any situation.

 

Vehicles: Simply put, Grievous has this category. The sheer variation and numbers of the vehicles he has can destroy anything Revan can bring. G0-T0 is the only one who could have a chance, as he can just buy vehicles.

 

Specialty troops(includes Dark Jedi and HK-50's): Grievous has Droideka's and Magnaguards, as well as Commando Droids at his disposal. Revan has the Dark Jedi, and G0-T0 has the HK-50's and the elite Bounty Hunters. Grievous and G0-T0's special troops can vanquish the Dark Jedi with relative ease (Droideka's and Magnaguards can take on Jedi Masters and the HK-50's are Jedi Killers). However, G0-T0's HK-50's can take on the Droideka's and Magnaguards. Tie between Grievous and G0-T0.

 

Land superiority: Grievous wins with Revan coming in at a close second. G0-T0 could simply buy himself an army (or build a ton of HK's), but he doesn't have the capability of competing in open ground warfare.

 

Space-

 

Ship numbers: I think it's pretty obvious who wins this category. Grievous simply has thousands of cruisers.

 

Space superiority: The Interdictor-class cruisers can put out some major firepower, but Revan doesn't have them in enough numbers to compete with the numbers of heavy cruisers that Grievous can bring to bear. Space goes to Grievous with Revan coming in second and G0-T0's Yacht and whatever he buys coming in third.

 

Other-

 

Recruitment: Not exactly a factor here, except for G0-T0. Would he be able to hack Grievous' droid army? They don't operate off of a CCC anymore, so how would he do it?

 

Allies: Ventress can defeat Malak in a duel (someone's gonna disagree, but they will be wrong), but I think Hanharr would beat her. Dueling-wise of course. Ventress could simply choke the poor wookiee into submission.

 

One-on-one: I think Darth Revan would prove the victor in a duel with Grievous(need to think more on that...). However, will Grievous allow that to happen? I doubt he would fight Revan one-on-one, not unless he has backup.

 

The Victor: Grievous will defeat Revan's armies, but I think G0-T0 may be able to outwit the General and gain the victory. Depends on whether or not he can hack Grievous' droid army. Bearing that in mind, the only way Revan can win is by cornering and defeating Grievous in a duel, which Grievous wouldn't be stupid enough to do. Grievous will beat Revan, leaving the General to deal with G0-T0.

 

Not sure who would win that, but I'm sticking with Grievous.

 

(Going to get called hater, but I tried to be as unbiased as possible)

I agree with most points in this statement grievous will win because of his massive droid army's. but I don't think revan would be defeated so easily he would stand a good chance.

[konstadinosblue]

One word.....Revan.

Just don't ask why,I just say Revan.

[Beniboybling]

I'm pretty sure everyone already knows at the start that G0-T0 is on Nar Shaddaa. Not sure if they know he has a stealthed ship, but if they do find out it won't help them any. Remember too that G0-T0's assassins/bounty hunters know nothing about him. They still think he's a human, after all.

 

I think people underestimate how hard it is to find a single stealthed ship in the hundreds of thousands of vessels going in and out of Nar Shaddaa. Good luck with that. It's like finding an invisible piece of straw in a stack of needles. While you're looking, every other ship from Nar Shaddaa will be slowly picking you apart.

 

The Visionary wasn't just an ol' ship either. Boarding it is probably a bad idea, and G0-T0 could always activate self destruct. Actually, boarding it would just make way for G0-T0 to sneak onto Revan's fleet. Blowing it up is still eaiser said than done. It's not a capital ship, and by the time they "find it" he could very well flee to the other side of Nar Shaddaa and recloak.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Visionary

-Controlled thousands of droids

-Heavy defenses inside and out

-Stealth Field

Warren has a point, without a crystal gravfield trap tracking down and destroying the Visionary will be very difficult. The best way to kill G0-T0 would be to draw him out, or rather force him out. Revan is a Force user, his capital ship is heavily guarded and well defending, he has assassins, Sith etc etc. So G0-T0 is going to have to pull out all the stops to kill Revan. However if his HK-50s, mercenaries, Ubese assassins and Hanharr all fail to kill Revan then G0-T0 will have no choice to make a personal appearance and attempt to take Revan down himself. In such a case G0-T0 would no longer have the luxury of his yacht and Revan could destroy him. But will G0-T0 take such a risk? I believe so for two reasons:

 

1. G0-T0 has run out of options, his HK-50s have all been destroyed, and so has the factory (Revan could capture a droid to find the factory). Hanharr is dead. His mercenaries have also been routed and all his Ubese assassins are all gone, he could hire some more but the best ones are dead - and everyone else is now too afraid to try. He has nothing left but a few sentry droids, a yacht, and himself, he has no choice.

 

2. The rule 'No surrender, fight to the death!' and the rule that combatants can't stay out of the fight if only one opponent is left means G0-T0 has to act. He can't just sit in his yacht and run from Revan. He has no choice but to mount some sort of offensive.

 

But this all hinges on whether G0-T0's assassins and mercenaries are successful in killing Revan or not.

 

NOTE: For the purpose of debate, Revan has no knowledge of the factory on Telos IV, despite building it himself. Neither are HK-50's in his powerbase, because the project was never finished and no droids were ever produced.

 

And a quick scenario for Grievous killing G0-T0, if he were to defeat Revan:

 

Asajj Ventress, who has displayed an ability to pose as a bounty hunter, does so on Nar Shaddaa. If Grievous thwarts enough of his assassination attempts and maybe destroys his HK-50 factory, G0-T0 is going to start looking for more bounty hunters, fearless, deadly bounty hunters. Ventress fits the bill. And rules only dictate that combatants only know their opponents, not their allies, so this could work.

 

Anyway, G0-T0 hires Ventress and brings her to his yacht or orders (or perhaps to test her skills) Ventress kills G0-T0.

 

This scenario could also work if Ventress joins Revan - which is possibly as she had no love for Grievous.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Well don't forget Beni, G0-T0 isn't infinitely rich with credits(give you said he can access to all the Exchange, the other bosses seem kinda low compared to G0-T0 with money). So really, Revan or GG could just wait out him until he runs out of money or dwindle at him away bit by bit, of course this means that in that time Revan or GG could be killed...but its something to just throw out there. Edited January 19, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Aurbere]

P.S. Oh Aurbere, does your Revan-hate extend to Malak too? Malak betrayed him! C'mon give him some slack. Asajj Ventress is not stronger than him! She's not even a Sith Lord, just a dark side adept, a pawn! She's tough, yes but Malak was one of the most skilled swordsmen of his time. I really think Ventress is outmatched here, but thats just my opinion, fight me!

 

Oh and if you accept that Grievous beats Revan, you also have to accept Ventress beats Revan (like uses-him-to mop-his-own-blood-of-the-floor beat him) But you probably do so whatever.

 

Umm... Ventress has defeated Jedi Council members and was able to hold off Obi-Wan and Anakin simultaneously. She doesn't need to be a Sith Lord. Maul was just a weapon and he killed Qui-Gon Jinn.

 

Yes, Grievous is a superior duelist to Revan. He used the seven lightsaber forms in his own unpredictable style that utilized the speed and precision of his mechanical body. Revan has never faced anyone like Grievous.

 

On the note of Malak betraying Revan: he did so from the safety of his ship. He tried to kill Revan before and failed miserably. He isn't as great as people claim.

[Darksaberexile]

A few questions:

 

Besides the thought bomb, is there any information on what Sith rituals Revan knew? (I know Darth Bane learned a lot from Revan's holocron, but not really much specific about what he learned)

 

Also, since Revan built HK-47 originally, is there anything that prevents him from building HK-47 or a similar assassin droid (or droids) while involved in the Kaggath?

 

Neither is probably enough to win for Revan, but it might help a bit (and get some more battle droids out of the galaxy, I don't think we really want trillions of droid running around indefinitely )

[Canino]

Warren has a point, without a crystal gravfield trap tracking down and destroying the Visionary will be very difficult. The best way to kill G0-T0 would be to draw him out, or rather force him out. Revan is a Force user, his capital ship is heavily guarded and well defending, he has assassins, Sith etc etc. So G0-T0 is going to have to pull out all the stops to kill Revan. However if his HK-50s, mercenaries, Ubese assassins and Hanharr all fail to kill Revan then G0-T0 will have no choice to make a personal appearance and attempt to take Revan down himself. In such a case G0-T0 would no longer have the luxury of his yacht and Revan could destroy him. But will G0-T0 take such a risk? I believe so for two reasons:

 

1. G0-T0 has run out of options, his HK-50s have all been destroyed, and so has the factory (Revan could capture a droid to find the factory). Hanharr is dead. His mercenaries have also been routed and all his Ubese assassins are all gone, he could hire some more but the best ones are dead - and everyone else is now too afraid to try. He has nothing left but a few sentry droids, a yacht, and himself, he has no choice.

 

2. The rule 'No surrender, fight to the death!' and the rule that combatants can't stay out of the fight if only one opponent is left means G0-T0 has to act. He can't just sit in his yacht and run from Revan. He has no choice but to mount some sort of offensive.

 

But this all hinges on whether G0-T0's assassins and mercenaries are successful in killing Revan or not.

 

NOTE: For the purpose of debate, Revan has no knowledge of the factory on Telos IV, despite building it himself. Neither are HK-50's in his powerbase, because the project was never finished and no droids were ever produced.

 

And a quick scenario for Grievous killing G0-T0, if he were to defeat Revan:

 

Asajj Ventress, who has displayed an ability to pose as a bounty hunter, does so on Nar Shaddaa. If Grievous thwarts enough of his assassination attempts and maybe destroys his HK-50 factory, G0-T0 is going to start looking for more bounty hunters, fearless, deadly bounty hunters. Ventress fits the bill. And rules only dictate that combatants only know their opponents, not their allies, so this could work.

 

Anyway, G0-T0 hires Ventress and brings her to his yacht or orders (or perhaps to test her skills) Ventress kills G0-T0.

 

This scenario could also work if Ventress joins Revan - which is possibly as she had no love for Grievous.

 

I feel as though that could work, but why would G0-T0 personally meet Ventress? Bring her on the ship? Maybe, but I find that unlikely. If he did, he would probably just use his holo and trick her into think he was human. Also, G0-T0 has been around for a while, don't you think he would know that Ventress isn't real? He has been around hunters for years, maybe decades(I don't know how long he has been with the Exchange). I think he would know a fake when he scanned it.

 

Also, does no one think Ventrss would try to join Reven? She declared herslef Sith, and was punished. She wants knowledge and power, and actually dislikes GG. I find it more likely that she would try to join Reven, which leads to the question, who would win? Malak or Ventress?

[Beniboybling]

Umm... Ventress has defeated Jedi Council members and was able to hold off Obi-Wan and Anakin simultaneously. She doesn't need to be a Sith Lord. Maul was just a weapon and he killed Qui-Gon Jinn.

 

Yes, Grievous is a superior duelist to Revan. He used the seven lightsaber forms in his own unpredictable style that utilized the speed and precision of his mechanical body. Revan has never faced anyone like Grievous.

 

On the note of Malak betraying Revan: he did so from the safety of his ship. He tried to kill Revan before and failed miserably. He isn't as great as people claim.

OK, so Ventress is very impressive. And maybe she would be able to defeat Darth Malak, but I don't think she is superior to Revan. She held her own against Anakin and Obi Wan, but she didn't defeat them. Revan on the other hand was the greatest Jedi of his age, the Council were in awe of him, and although its never specifically stated, I expect he mastered at least one form. Something neither Grievous nor Ventress have done.

 

Grievous used all seven lightsaber forms yes, but he was a master of none, which instead of becoming a strength becomes a weakness, if you dabble in everything you excel at nothing. Of course Revan has never faced anything like Grievous, but then who has? Jedi and Sith are meant to be adaptable, none of the Jedi Grievous had faced had faced anything like him before, and yet several managed to defeat him. And ultimately it probably won't even come down to a lightsaber fight, unlike many Jedi Grievous faced, Revan does not have to engage him in lightsaber combat, he can merely use his superior abilities in the Force (which Grievous had no defence against) to destroy him.

 

And for the record, Maul was a Sith Lord, and he earned that title. Maul > Ventress & Grievous & Malak too. Maul was very powerful.

 

And Canino, bounty hunters don't tend to have dossiers or information on them. G0-T0 has no way of checking if she is a 'real' bounty hunter or not. In the criminal underworld you can be what you want. If Ventress says she a bounty hunter, she's a bounty hunter. She did actually become one after all, and no one ever got suspicious even though she used to be Dooku's apprentice and wielded lightsabers. Anything goes in the underworld.

[Aurbere]

Also, does no one think Ventrss would try to join Reven? She declared herslef Sith, and was punished. She wants knowledge and power, and actually dislikes GG. I find it more likely that she would try to join Reven, which leads to the question, who would win? Malak or Ventress?

 

I don't know if she would join Revan. She seems to be coming into her own. She doesn't seem obssessed with power anymore. However, if we are going with CIS servant Ventress, then yes she probably would go to join him.

 

Malak vs. Ventress? Ventress wins. As I've noted before, she has defeated Jedi High Council members and was able to hold off Anakin and Obi-Wan simultaneously. Malak is claimed to be the best of his time, but against the true best of his time (Exar Kun), he looks average. Not saying Ventress is as good as Kun, but Ventress is just superior.

[Aurbere]

OK, so Ventress is very impressive. And maybe she would be able to defeat Darth Malak, but I don't think she is superior to Revan. She held her own against Anakin and Obi Wan, but she didn't defeat them. Revan on the other hand was the greatest Jedi of his age, the Council were in awe of him, and although its never specifically stated, I expect he mastered at least one form. Something neither Grievous nor Ventress have done.

 

Grievous used all seven lightsaber forms yes, but he was a master of none, which instead of becoming a strength becomes a weakness, if you dabble in everything you excel at nothing. Of course Revan has never faced anything like Grievous, but then who has? Jedi and Sith are meant to be adaptable, none of the Jedi Grievous had faced had faced anything like him before, and yet several managed to defeat him. And ultimately it probably won't even come down to a lightsaber fight, unlike many Jedi Grievous faced, Revan does not have to engage him in lightsaber combat, he can merely use his superior abilities in the Force (which Grievous had no defence against) to destroy him.

 

Edit: Never mind. /sigh

Edited January 19, 2013 by Aurbere

[Darkondo]

Again, you are assuming that Grievous will duel Revan without having the advantage. If killing Grievous were so easy, how come Mace Windu's Force Crush didn't kill him? Grievous has faced many powerful Jedi in battle and proved victorious or simply fled.

 

You expect Revan mastered a lightsaber form? Now you are just supposing things. If the Jedi Order was so in awe of him, why did they send a team of Jedi led by a Padawan, when they sent the whole Jedi Order (plus the entire Republic military) to take out Exar Kun?

 

As for the not having mastered a lightsaber form theory since its not stated Revan mastered one, Agen Kolar and Saesse Tin who were jedi high council members who specialized in saber combat, were not stated to have mastered any lightsaber forms either, does that mean that they didnt? No they were considered to be the Order's finest in saber combat so you cant use that argument that Revan never mastered any form just because it doesnt say what he used.

[Aurbere]

As for the not having mastered a lightsaber form theory since its not stated Revan mastered one, Agen Kolar and Saesse Tin who were jedi high council members who specialized in saber combat, were not stated to have mastered any lightsaber forms either, does that mean that they didnt? No they were considered to be the Order's finest in saber combat so you cant use that argument that Revan never mastered any form just because it doesnt say what he used.

 

And now we fall to assumptions. This always happens in Revan threads...

 

Why don't we just assume Revan mastered the seven forms and mastered his own form? It's not stated that he didn't, so let's just assume.

 

/sigh

[MasterMe]

Warren has a point, without a crystal gravfield trap tracking down and destroying the Visionary will be very difficult. The best way to kill G0-T0 would be to draw him out, or rather force him out. Revan is a Force user, his capital ship is heavily guarded and well defending, he has assassins, Sith etc etc. So G0-T0 is going to have to pull out all the stops to kill Revan. However if his HK-50s, mercenaries, Ubese assassins and Hanharr all fail to kill Revan then G0-T0 will have no choice to make a personal appearance and attempt to take Revan down himself. In such a case G0-T0 would no longer have the luxury of his yacht and Revan could destroy him. But will G0-T0 take such a risk? I believe so for two reasons:

 

1. G0-T0 has run out of options, his HK-50s have all been destroyed, and so has the factory (Revan could capture a droid to find the factory). Hanharr is dead. His mercenaries have also been routed and all his Ubese assassins are all gone, he could hire some more but the best ones are dead - and everyone else is now too afraid to try. He has nothing left but a few sentry droids, a yacht, and himself, he has no choice.

 

2. The rule 'No surrender, fight to the death!' and the rule that combatants can't stay out of the fight if only one opponent is left means G0-T0 has to act. He can't just sit in his yacht and run from Revan. He has no choice but to mount some sort of offensive.

 

But this all hinges on whether G0-T0's assassins and mercenaries are successful in killing Revan or not.

 

NOTE: For the purpose of debate, Revan has no knowledge of the factory on Telos IV, despite building it himself. Neither are HK-50's in his powerbase, because the project was never finished and no droids were ever produced.

 

And a quick scenario for Grievous killing G0-T0, if he were to defeat Revan:

 

Asajj Ventress, who has displayed an ability to pose as a bounty hunter, does so on Nar Shaddaa. If Grievous thwarts enough of his assassination attempts and maybe destroys his HK-50 factory, G0-T0 is going to start looking for more bounty hunters, fearless, deadly bounty hunters. Ventress fits the bill. And rules only dictate that combatants only know their opponents, not their allies, so this could work.

 

Anyway, G0-T0 hires Ventress and brings her to his yacht or orders (or perhaps to test her skills) Ventress kills G0-T0.

 

This scenario could also work if Ventress joins Revan - which is possibly as she had no love for Grievous.

 

I'm very doubtful that G0-T0 OR Greivous have the tools to kill Revan himself.

[Wolfninjajedi]

As for the not having mastered a lightsaber form theory since its not stated Revan mastered one, Agen Kolar and Saesse Tin who were jedi high council members who specialized in saber combat, were not stated to have mastered any lightsaber forms either, does that mean that they didnt? No they were considered to be the Order's finest in saber combat so you cant use that argument that Revan never mastered any form just because it doesnt say what he used.

 

If it doesn't even say what form Revan used, then how do we even know he mastered it if we don't even know the form? Agen Kolar(from what I looked up) is a master with Ataru, with Tiin he is a Dejm So user looking it up.

Edited January 19, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Darkondo]

And now we fall to assumptions. This always happens in Revan threads...

 

Why don't we just assume Revan mastered the seven forms and mastered his own form? It's not stated that he didn't, so let's just assume.

 

/sigh

 

Im merely using your time machine theory to point out contradictions in your logic. The PTO had generally better saber combatants than the Jedi Order's of the past, Agen Kolar and Saesee Tin were jedi high council members who specialized in saber combat, yet it is never stated that they mastered a saber form, does that mean that they were inferior to say: Rahm Kota who specialized in juyo? No in fact id say both Kolar and Tin would beat Kota.

[Darkondo]

If it doesn't even say what form Revan used, then how do we even know he mastered it if we don't even know the form? Agen Kolar(from what I looked up) is a master with Ataru, with Tiin he is a Dejm So user looking it up.

 

Where does it say that? Ive been looking and i cant seem to find it?