Queuing as what you are not. This has to stop.

[ZeroPlus]

Well you state not having Trauma Probe is a dead giveaway. But we could run a flashpoint together and I wouldn't use trauma probe. I'm still 32 points into the tree, specced as a healer and played combat medic from the very beginning.

 

I guess I'm trying to expand the knowledge presented in this discussion? To point out to folks that not all combat medics have trauma probe because it's been changed and isn't very good anymore.

 

Thanks for the contribution.

 

But you do use other heals mentioned, right? So I would definitely know that you were specced as a healer (all it would take would be something as simple as seeing the "Kolto Residue" buff ).

[ZeroPlus]

I always queue as a tank for normal mode operations, even though I am a dps in the best 63s gear. I've yet to see any party which has two tanks in those. And queue pops quickly. there will be a problem if another tank queued with my idea but I've yet to see it.

 

This is about Flash Points, but what you are doing is just wrong.

 

You count on the other tank being a real tank and that the healers are real healers. Basically you are expecting to be carried because you *cannot* fulfil the role efectively. Do you feel that the fact that you outgear the content justifies what you do? (It is one thing to do this in your guild with people that know that you are doing it and watching out for you, but imposing this on others is just wrong.)

[Killtastrophe]

Would you rage at me?

 

I tank in full Immortal Spec with full DPS gear mods even in my shield @ 40.

 

Haven't had any problems clearing FPs, even the HK battle in Foundry tanking @ lvl 35.

 

EDIT: Of the few times I pop as DPS, last time I noticed I had 20% more HP than the same level Jugg that queue'd as Tank despite my preference for STR + POW > END.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Killtastrophe

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

There is a bug which queues people as a role they did not select, it is easy to overlook this once a queue pops as you wouldn't expect the system to be so idiotically flawed. That alone probably makes up for 80%+ of improper queues.

 

^This

 

Actually there are two bugs.

 

There's a bug where it doesn't save your previous selection. So you might queue for DPS 5 or 6 times in a row. You click in assuming you don't have to look at the toggle and you don't realize it's re-enabled Tank again for some reason.

There's a bug where even if you only selected DPS and you visually verified that, it throws you in as tank.

 

I've seen both happened to me.

 

Good news is now that respec is free for subs I just keep my tank gear in my inventory at all times and if it queues me wrong I just respec/regear before starting the fp.

Still they need to fix the bug cause it is annoying.

[errant_knight]

I can't disagree with much of this, but I do feel the need to point out that crit/surge/alacrity is just one way to build a healer. Power/alacrity is equally valid as there's something to be said for consistancy in healing. Likewise, there's more than one way to build a tank. But yeah, you need to be spec'd and armored for your class. And, as noted, it can actually be quite difficult to get queued as you wish to be. I have a heck of a time getting my dps jugg queued as dps sometimes. It can take repeated tries. Edited January 11, 2013 by errant_knight

[Alec_Fortescue]

This is about Flash Points, but what you are doing is just wrong.

 

You count on the other tank being a real tank and that the healers are real healers. Basically you are expecting to be carried because you *cannot* fulfil the role efectively. Do you feel that the fact that you outgear the content justifies what you do? (It is one thing to do this in your guild with people that know that you are doing it and watching out for you, but imposing this on others is just wrong.)

 

Totally justifies. I am not being carried by anyone. Normal mode ec / kp requires only one tank. My gear is far beyond the content requirements and I am in dps and eventual off-tanking. While not dedicated tank, I have enough hp and powerful attacks to easily handle the pylons which are the only encounters where two tanks might be useful but not necessary. Two tanks in gf operation is a waste of space. Second tank will neither tank or do proper dps.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Alec_Fortescue

[MoobooMagoo]

Well you state not having Trauma Probe is a dead giveaway. But we could run a flashpoint together and I wouldn't use trauma probe. I'm still 32 points into the tree, specced as a healer and played combat medic from the very beginning.

 

I guess I'm trying to expand the knowledge presented in this discussion? To point out to folks that not all combat medics have trauma probe because it's been changed and isn't very good anymore.

 

Trama Probe may not be as good as it was before, but it is still the most efficient heal a commando healer has, you just have to be smarter about when you throw it. It still heals like...4500 health for 2 ammo. Maybe if you were making a hybrid build you could drop it, but you'd be crazy not to take it for a full healer.

 

Besides, what else are you going to take? Efficient Conversions?

 

Anyhoo, back on topic.

I have had the game re-assign me as both healer and dps before, but I've never had it pop as dps when I'm set up as a healer. If there is a bug where it does that it doesn't hit everybody.

[Zazyl]

Would you rage at me?

 

I tank in full Immortal Spec with full DPS gear mods even in my shield @ 40.

 

Haven't had any problems clearing FPs, even the HK battle in Foundry tanking @ lvl 35.

 

EDIT: Of the few times I pop as DPS, last time I noticed I had 20% more HP than the same level Jugg that queue'd as Tank despite my preference for STR + POW > END.

 

I think his point would be that you HAVE a shield and are using the proper form, yes? Whereas the ***-hats do NOT have a shield and are trying to tank in a DPS form.

 

Edit: To-wit, I will add that I have also experienced the OPs gripe. Was in an HM FP the other night and the tank that queue'd in has BARELY more HP than my Tionese geared Sentinel, would only focus on one target at time, causing me to have to try and save the healer over and over, and took SEVERAL promptings from the group to change into their tanking form. He finally had enough of our promptings and left the group. Unfortunately, we didn't get another tank and after about 10mins of waiting we called it

Edited January 11, 2013 by Zazyl

[_Darkstar]

EVERY SINGLE PLANET has a "Mod Vendor" and a "Weapon Vendor". The "Mod Vendor" will have Commando, Guardian and Force Wielder armorings (that prioritize Endurance) for sale. The "Weapon Vendor" will have moddable Techblades, Techstaves and Vibroblades on sale that will have defensive Mods and Enhancements in them that can be stripped out and equipped.

Green mods or expensive vendor items that I know my 25's can't afford without hand-me-down cash.

[ZeroPlus]

Green mods or expensive vendor items that I know my 25's can't afford without hand-me-down cash.

 

Green mods that are good enough for any content being done at that level or the next 3-4 levels. Same with the stuff that can be pulled from the weapons.

 

Not to mention the "Modification Commendation Vendors" that have "blue" armorings that prioritize Endurance over main stat that can be acquired at "zero" cost with commendations.

[Killtastrophe]

Not to mention the "Modification Commendation Vendors" that have "blue" armorings that prioritize Endurance over main stat that can be acquired at "zero" cost with commendations.

 

I only level through FPs, WZs & dailies and typically catch up on my class quest every 10 levels or so. Running each FP 5 - 8 times as I level through them nets me tons of blue armorings, mods and enhancements which I drop in to my Sith Raider Belt/Bracers or whatever custom armor set I think looks good at the time. I find it very, very easy to keep my gear within appropriate level ranges doing this.

 

I had a Vanguard in Cademimu SM try to argue he was using his DPS Shield Spec/Ion Cell, that was fun. It's not like an off spec DPS will break the group at that low level or even slow it down that much but after politely telling the guy, 'Excuse me we don't need two tank specs for this FP.' it's the insolent response that you get half the time that changes my mind about whether or not that person shall accompany us.

[TheIronMonkey]

Well, I am going to jump in because of a horrible experience I had recently.

 

I have multiple classes of toons, dps, healers, and what I think off as a tank. My "tank", a Sith Juggernut, is ok equiped (post 50 in most areas) with a shield, etc... Now I have tank many FPs, but when I started playing HM FPs I found myself in (what I will call) an "elitist" group with a guy who inmediatly called all my equipment crap and not a "tank".

 

We did the whole FP without deaths. Even at the end he still complained. It made it a horribly stressful situation for ME, which has resulted on me not playing that tank since.

 

So now, before we go off into what skills work for what, lets stay with the OP.

 

1. Sounds to me a bit paranoid to think people miss-queue just to mess up your group. With the advent of been kicked out, I would not think this behavior would pay off. When I was complained about as a tank, I offered to quit the group voluntarily.

 

2. We all have to learn, if you only want to play with experts, you might have to join a guild full of them and only play with them. Obviously all of us have to level our toons and get equipment, which takes time. So people aren't born tanks or healer overnight. I find that been more supportive of other players could pay off better on the long run than only playing with the elite.

 

3. Not everybody sees their role as Zero sees them. As shown in this thread right here, some people build their healers diff ways. So if it doesn't match Zero's definition, is not good?? humm....

 

I would not focus so much on their equipment or build. I never inspect other players when I go in an LFG group. When I am healer, as an example, I notice immediately who is "weaker" and who is stronger equipment wise. See if they can do the job. If you are heals, then heal. If they don't, kick them out. For lack of performance. If they work, ie, they heal the team well enough, what does it matter how do they do it or what equipment exactly they have on?

[MaximusRex]

The Group Finder likes to decide for you what to queue as. I'm a tank, but every time it also marks me as a DPS. One day my DPS Merch friend kept getting forced queued as a healer despite deselecting that option.

 

So, don't blame the player, blame the cruddy tool.

[Sousukesama]

Simplest solution to your issue - do flashpoints with guildies.. / friends you know

 

Group Finder = PUG, you get bad, good, and great groups. Just a matter of who is queued at the time you queue.

 

I understand your frustration, i've had a 12k Marauder in 45-48 blue mods doing HM flashpoints and the rest of group had to carry them through. We educated him about the free tionese and thankfully he listened.. but that was after the FP. Just have to find a small group of people that you enjoy grouping with and run w/ them. GF will always frustrate you at some time or another.

[Missandei]

Totally justifies. I am not being carried by anyone. Normal mode ec / kp requires only one tank.

 

Good luck on Jarg and Sorno with one Tank.

or on Fabricator with Tionese/Recruit Mk-2 geared Healers

Edited January 11, 2013 by Missandei

[Sousukesama]

Well, I am going to jump in because of a horrible experience I had recently.

 

I have multiple classes of toons, dps, healers, and what I think off as a tank. My "tank", a Sith Juggernut, is ok equiped (post 50 in most areas) with a shield, etc... Now I have tank many FPs, but when I started playing HM FPs I found myself in (what I will call) an "elitist" group with a guy who inmediatly called all my equipment crap and not a "tank".

 

We did the whole FP without deaths. Even at the end he still complained. It made it a horribly stressful situation for ME, which has resulted on me not playing that tank since.

 

 

 

Best advice is to /ignore that person who was a jerk to you so you don't have to match up with them in GF again. Play your tank and have fun.

 

I would not focus so much on their equipment or build. I never inspect other players when I go in an LFG group. When I am healer, as an example, I notice immediately who is "weaker" and who is stronger equipment wise. See if they can do the job. If you are heals, then heal. If they don't, kick them out. For lack of performance. If they work, ie, they heal the team well enough, what does it matter how do they do it or what equipment exactly they have on?

 

I agree.. if they do their job they do their job. It is of opinion as to what is better / worst setup. there is some common sense in gearing, but there is also preference. ex. I have played for quite awhile and I know what my character can do for healing / dps. I run most HMs in GF as a hybrid healer unless I see an overwhelming gear disparity in which I field respec to full heal as needed. But I can crank out a ton of DPS and plenty of healing to keep everyone up and i've been chastised for being hybrid even though no one dies at the end of the run. It is what it is I suppose.

[FooBard]

As a programmer myself - and knowing how this game is a 90% gear and skill tree check....

 

THEY (bioware) SHOULD do the work for you.... They can calculate what role you have your toon setup for based on your gear and skill tree.

 

I mean, the system could even be coded to see someone with half dps gear/half tank gear.... and half dps tree spec'd and half tank spec'd queue up for a flashpoint... and queue them up as "GIMP"

 

People should not be allowed to "pick their role". You do this when you gear and spec yourself... The QUEUE should determine your role for "the other players"

 

-----

 

But wait... that's too much work for bioware. Never going to happen.

[Missandei]

As a programmer myself - and knowing how this game is a 90% gear and skill tree check....

 

THEY (bioware) SHOULD do the work for you.... They can calculate what role you have your toon setup for based on your gear and skill tree.

 

I mean, the system could even be coded to see someone with half dps gear/half tank gear.... and half dps tree spec'd and half tank spec'd queue up for a flashpoint... and queue them up as "GIMP"

 

People should not be allowed to "pick their role". You do this when you gear and spec yourself... The QUEUE should determine your role for "the other players"

 

-----

 

But wait... that's too much work for bioware. Never going to happen.

 

Who tell you that you are a programmer?

Programmer is a person who can predict different outcomes of the same situation.

Example:

My Shadow have 2 sets of Gear - For Tanking (61lvl BiS gear), and for DPS (Balance tree - nearly 61 BiS gear).

I have a field respec aswell.

So i queue as Tank/DPS. When Que pops, i go in a FP/OPS and (if necessary) quickly do respec.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Missandei

[itsmymillertime]

respecing automatically resets what you have chosen for group finder. Only problem I have ever seen.

[mjwhitt]

My favorite, lowbie flashpoint:

 

Shadow Tank joins with 75% broken gear. Says that's why he's doing FP. He uses taunt, dies, and says "okay, maybe I won't use that ability anymore". Get to the first boss and he's like "can someone else tank, my gear is broken".

 

I told him it was rude to his group queue as a tank if he can't tank. He said he queued as DPS and waited an hour and said screw it and switched to tank.

 

My favorite, hardmode flashpoint:

 

Tank joins HM Lost Island in full recruit gear (the first version). It's his first hardmode, he says.

[ZeroPlus]

Well, I am going to jump in because of a horrible experience I had recently.

 

I have multiple classes of toons, dps, healers, and what I think off as a tank. My "tank", a Sith Juggernut, is ok equiped (post 50 in most areas) with a shield, etc... Now I have tank many FPs, but when I started playing HM FPs I found myself in (what I will call) an "elitist" group with a guy who inmediatly called all my equipment crap and not a "tank".

 

We did the whole FP without deaths. Even at the end he still complained. It made it a horribly stressful situation for ME, which has resulted on me not playing that tank since.

 

So now, before we go off into what skills work for what, lets stay with the OP.

 

1. Sounds to me a bit paranoid to think people miss-queue just to mess up your group. With the advent of been kicked out, I would not think this behavior would pay off. When I was complained about as a tank, I offered to quit the group voluntarily.

 

2. We all have to learn, if you only want to play with experts, you might have to join a guild full of them and only play with them. Obviously all of us have to level our toons and get equipment, which takes time. So people aren't born tanks or healer overnight. I find that been more supportive of other players could pay off better on the long run than only playing with the elite.

 

3. Not everybody sees their role as Zero sees them. As shown in this thread right here, some people build their healers diff ways. So if it doesn't match Zero's definition, is not good?? humm....

 

I would not focus so much on their equipment or build. I never inspect other players when I go in an LFG group. When I am healer, as an example, I notice immediately who is "weaker" and who is stronger equipment wise. See if they can do the job. If you are heals, then heal. If they don't, kick them out. For lack of performance. If they work, ie, they heal the team well enough, what does it matter how do they do it or what equipment exactly they have on?

 

1) Not being paranoid. When it is a mistake, people will own up to the mistake (or call out the bug) and leave or ask if the group wants to risk it. That is not what this is about. This is about those that knowingly queue as something they are not counting on the rest of the group not realizing that they are not what they say they are. It is about disrespect for the others in the group (not *me* or *my* group, *their* group).

 

2) Not talking about those that need to learn. Those will say outright "learning to tank, please assist with tips as needed" and I do. Again, this is not about those people who *want* to tank or heal and just need to learn what that means. This is about those that *don't want* to tank or heal, they just want a faster queue and expect the rest of the group to carry them.

 

3) Nope, that isn't the point. As you can see by my responses to those posts. Not having a particular talent or using a particular ability, doesn't make or break a tank or healer. However, not having any tanking or healing talents, or gear for the role, definitely means that they cannot fulfil the role they are saying they can. They are disrespecting the others in the group with this attitude. That is what this is about.

 

From what you say, you are not the target of what I am asking. You know what a healer/tank has to do, how they need to spec and gear for it.

 

We have all had bad experiences with people who are "elitist" and who disdain any that aren't at their level. This isn't about that.

 

This isn't about telling a Tank that is specced and geared as a tank that he sucks or asking that only if you are a "super tank/healer" should you be tanking/healing. We all have to learn, and guys that are specced for the role are willing to learn and get better.

 

NO, this is about people who are neither tanks or healers, and who have no intention of being either, queuing as tanks/healers and expecting to be carried by the group because they cannot fulfil the role.

 

Your last paragraph is interesting. It kind of agrees with me, while attempting to justify what they do. You say:

"See if they can do the job. If you are heals, then heal. If they don't, kick them out. For lack of performance. If they work, ie, they heal the team well enough, what does it matter how do they do it or what equipment exactly they have on?"

 

The thing is, after a certain level (once you get into your 30s), to do your job you have to be specced and geared for your job because the FP will expect that from you. If you aren't specced for healing you don't have HoTs or instant heals, and they are needed after a certain level. If you aren't specced and geared for tanking then you don't have the mitigation needed to take the damage that will be dished out, and you need to be after a certain level. That is why it matters. The only way "it works" if a healer or tank is not geared/talented for tanking/healing is when the rest of the group *is* capable of fulfilling their role properly. Try healing a group with a tank specced for DPS while you are also specced for DPS against a boss that does AoE damage, or throws random attacks at different group members, or summons adds (or even all or a mix of these abilities, like the bonus boss in Taral V (or even the last boss in Taral V)): there is no way you can pull it off. However, the people this is aimed think they can pull it off, and when they can't they blame the rest of the group.

 

There is no excuse for this behaviour. It needs to stop.

[ZeroPlus]

I agree.. if they do their job they do their job. It is of opinion as to what is better / worst setup. there is some common sense in gearing, but there is also preference. ex. I have played for quite awhile and I know what my character can do for healing / dps. I run most HMs in GF as a hybrid healer unless I see an overwhelming gear disparity in which I field respec to full heal as needed. But I can crank out a ton of DPS and plenty of healing to keep everyone up and i've been chastised for being hybrid even though no one dies at the end of the run. It is what it is I suppose.

 

Who tell you that you are a programmer?

Programmer is a person who can predict different outcomes of the same situation.

Example:

My Shadow have 2 sets of Gear - For Tanking (61lvl BiS gear), and for DPS (Balance tree - nearly 61 BiS gear).

I have a field respec aswell.

So i queue as Tank/DPS. When Que pops, i go in a FP/OPS and (if necessary) quickly do respec.

 

As mentioned in my original post, I respect and admire players like you. Well done.

 

You know what you are doing. How to do it. When to do it. What is needed to do it. You obviously do not expect to be carried by others.

 

Please stop defending others (even if indirectly) that are nothing like you. They are abusing a system and hoping to get away with it. It has to stop.

[UltimateKrucible]

I tank hardmodes in Shadow PvP DPS gear - easy if you have a good healer.

 

A lot of this thread reads like scrubs who can't think outside the box. SWTOR FP's are pretty easy - you just have to know how2p. Just sayin....

[Vlacke]

I agree, some idiots always enter queue with two roles selected, it's especially annoying when someone enters as a healer and it turns out he is actually DPS.

[Alec_Fortescue]

Good luck on Jarg and Sorno with one Tank.

or on Fabricator with Tionese/Recruit Mk-2 geared Healers

 

Already done it. Before they started to nerf everything because it was all "too hard".