Is there any tactic in Jedi combat??

[ElpinElite]

I started playing SWTOR a few days ago and really love this game. Story, gameplay - really nice.

What I don't get a bit is combat. Started as a Jedi and I was immediately disappointed a bit that the combat is kind of shallow. You just come to an opponent and slash and slash and slash... use a different named slash... then a slower slash... quicker slash... and either you have higher dps than the enemy and you win or you don't and you lose. At level 11 I got maybe 10 different slash abilities, each of them named differently and each of them doing pretty much the same thing.

 

After that just out of curiosity I tried to play as a smuggler and immediately recognized the difference. You can jump into cover, throw grenades, evade the incoming lasers while shooting back and so on. Really fun!

 

Am I doing something wrong? Why is the Jedi's combat so boring?

[MillionsKNives]

Firstly, you cannot avoid targeted attacks. The only thing you can avoid is ground targeted attacks. So if an enemy is shooting at you and you move you still get hit (you can see them follow you).

 

Secondly all classes gain more control and situational abilities as they level. The abilities you get as you go are supposed to ease you into your class, they're not going to dump all of the tactical stuff at once. For example though sentinels get a force stasis, which stuns an enemy for the channel duration, an interrupt ability, an ability that reduces enemy accuracy by 90% for a short time, an ability that reduces damage taken, an ability that makes you go invisible for a few seconds, etc.

 

All classes are going to feel relatively shallow at low levels because if you started with all of the cool stuff then there's nothing to work towards, no character progression.

[TheNahash]

I think this has more to do with personal preference than bad combat design or lack of tactics.

Personally, I like ranged classes and Operatives/Smugglers. I don't like Warriors/Knight and Assassins/Shadows as much. It's more about what feels "right" to you, than a lack of tactic.

 

There is tactic in Knight/Warrior combat, which like rest of the classes, is a combination of learning when to use your defensive cooldowns and which offensive ability is the right one for that specific moment of the fight. You also need to keep in mind that at level 11 (or 12 or 13 etc) you can't expect to see everything the class has to offer. Usually level 20-25 is a good phase to make up your mind about whether you like the way the class feels - at least for me it is.

Edited January 9, 2013 by TheNahash

[TheBBP]

I started playing SWTOR a few days ago and really love this game. Story, gameplay - really nice.

What I don't get a bit is combat. Started as a Jedi and I was immediately disappointed a bit that the combat is kind of shallow. You just come to an opponent and slash and slash and slash... use a different named slash... then a slower slash... quicker slash... and either you have higher dps than the enemy and you win or you don't and you lose. At level 11 I got maybe 10 different slash abilities, each of them named differently and each of them doing pretty much the same thing.

 

After that just out of curiosity I tried to play as a smuggler and immediately recognized the difference. You can jump into cover, throw grenades, evade the incoming lasers while shooting back and so on. Really fun!

 

Am I doing something wrong? Why is the Jedi's combat so boring?

 

You are judging based on being one level into your advanced class?

[CaptianFordo]

You are judging based on being one level into your advanced class?

 

This thread smells like...

 

Played Tython; didn't finish

 

Edited January 9, 2013 by CaptianFordo

[lpope]

At low levels every class is basically a button mash, although I will somewhat agree that scoundrel / agent seems more in-depth because of the cover system. As you progress, combat becomes a lot more involved and the fights become much more difficult. If you are at the recommended level for the content, you will need to figure out how the class / spec works.

 

For example, when you leap on vengeance warrior you get a free force scream. All classes I've played have certain abilities that can "proc" giving you a bonus to another ability for a few seconds. So you need to figure out all the interdependencies to be fully effective at later levels.

[-Sirus-]

I'd start out by pointing out that you really shouldn't judge a classes repertoire of attacks at level 10. By 50, you will pick up a large number of abilities between your basic and advanced classes and a couple more from your allocation of talent points.

 

That said, knights/warriors are melee classes that hit things with light sabers in different ways to get different effects. The differences in effect between abilities is also more pronounced than you realize. As for the visuals, you'll either appreciate the subtle differences between the abilities in the the light saber choreography or not. If you require pronounced differences between the visuals of each ability, I would recommend smuggler/agent then choosing scoundrel/operative.

Edited January 9, 2013 by -Sirus-
grammer

[iamthehoyden]

Am I doing something wrong? Why is the Jedi's combat so boring?

You're not doing something wrong, but at level 11 there isn't going to be a lot of variety in your abilities yet. They'll ease you into the tactical abilities as you go. I hope you stick with it. If you enjoy figuring out the extras and how to squeeze as much utility as you can out of your abilities, you'll be an asset in pve and pvp rather than a slash and burn player.

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

Nope no tactics, just turn on a laser sword and swing it widly. This is why there a so many amputations. Little known fact: 78% of Jedi amputations are self-inflicted. For a great example of Jedi tactics in action check You Tube for Star Wars Kid Edited January 9, 2013 by Arlon_Nabarlly

[WaywardOne]

Sentinels have a bag of tricks that you get later on.

Guardians have stances that you can play with.

Each class has specs that play completely differently and focus on different attack combos. There's skill and thought involved: the difference in performance between a great player and a mediocre one handling the same build/gear is stark.

 

But yeah, for the first 20-25 levels or so the combat is straightforward if you stay away from pvp.

[Felioats]

To tell the truth, when starting out I had a hard time differentiating from all the icons showing a blue lightsaber.

 

OK, this picture of a lightsaber does THIS, and this picture of a lightsaber does THAT, and this one... awe crap.

[Rafaman]

Tactics? Oh yes indeed there are tactics. But as previously mentioned, you aren't going to get it all coming out of the gate. And unlike other classes, you aren't going to avoid melee confrontations. You have to be up close and personal to do damage but of course you are a melee class. Maybe you are looking for more range and tactics based on that?

 

In short, the different slashes do different things. They all do damage, but some build focus, some penetrate armor, and some will do crit damage with damage over time bonuses or instantly. Still others slow down adversaries, minimize their healing abilities, and stun or incapacitate. How you approach a fight will vary depending on cool downs the mob or opponent etc. not to mention your cool downs and special abilities specific to your class.

 

So... you are just scratching the surface with the Jedi. As you progress things get much more complex and tactical in both PvP and PvE. So... I don't think you are doing anything wrong yet. But if you don't pay attention to the details and use your new abilities, you will not get very far.

[ElpinElite]

I understand that you don't get all abilities right from the start but I also don't want to wait until level 30 or even 50 (as somebody wrote) to have some fun!

 

And based on my smuggler observation - you can be level 1 and already see the tactic and the combat having a lot of diversity and tactic.

 

I've never played any MMO before so is it common to have so many different abilities that differ only slightly? If I had a singleplayer luxury to pause the game and give commands I would understand it but in a hurry of a combat I can barely use more than 4 or 5 abilities. Is it a part of the never-ending-MMO-experience to learn how to click all the hundreds of buttons in the right sequence to get the most damage?

 

Sigh, why couldn't they just make KOTOR 3.

[Rafaman]

I understand that you don't get all abilities right from the start but I also don't want to wait until level 30 or even 50 (as somebody wrote) to have some fun!

 

And based on my smuggler observation - you can be level 1 and already see the tactic and the combat having a lot of diversity and tactic.

 

I've never played any MMO before so is it common to have so many different abilities that differ only slightly? If I had a singleplayer luxury to pause the game and give commands I would understand it but in a hurry of a combat I can barely use more than 4 or 5 abilities. Is it a part of the never-ending-MMO-experience to learn how to click all the hundreds of buttons in the right sequence to get the most damage?

 

Sigh, why couldn't they just make KOTOR 3.

 

So... yes in short. It is part of the experience learning how to manage multiple things at once during combat; your combat resource and differing attacks depending on the situation and how the fight is going. And yes, there is a learning curve.

 

But you are in luck. Certain character classes require less of this. IMO Trooper and Bounty Hunter are easier in this regard. Doesn't make it any less fun to play, but they can rely less on multiple abilities because their heavy armor and ranged damaging attacks. Smugglers are not this way btw.... at higher levels you are to "squishy" and will have to use many abilities to survive.

 

Jedi/Warriors, and most specifically Sentinels and Marauders are, IMO,the toughest classes to master in the game. Because of the squish factor previously mentioned and the melee attacks with little avoidance you have know how and when to use almost all of your abilities. But it can be very rewarding as well. And... if you master a Sent or Mara as your first toon, everything else will be a walk in the park.

 

It all comes down to preference. I recommend you play to your strengths what ever they may be. In time you will get used to it. And I promise you... (I know you wont believe me) after a while, you will to back to your pause and attack games and question how or why people play that way.

Edited January 10, 2013 by Rafaman

[Socialist]

This is not Guild Wars 2 son.

 

The combat is repetitive, boring, conservative and non-dynamic like WoW.

 

 

But, hey, lightsabers!

[ElpinElite]

Thanks Rafaman for a thoughtful reply. As my Jedi character would say - I can see your wisdom :-)

 

It only saddens me that it is so because I can't really afford to give this game so much time. I play for the story and when that ends, so does the game for me.

[ElpinElite]

This is not Guild Wars 2 son.

 

The combat is repetitive, boring, conservative and non-dynamic like WoW.

 

But, hey, lightsabers!

 

Not sure why you even bother to play the game with this kind of attitude.

[Nemmar]

I started playing SWTOR a few days ago and really love this game. Story, gameplay - really nice.

What I don't get a bit is combat. Started as a Jedi and I was immediately disappointed a bit that the combat is kind of shallow. You just come to an opponent and slash and slash and slash... use a different named slash... then a slower slash... quicker slash... and either you have higher dps than the enemy and you win or you don't and you lose. At level 11 I got maybe 10 different slash abilities, each of them named differently and each of them doing pretty much the same thing.

 

After that just out of curiosity I tried to play as a smuggler and immediately recognized the difference. You can jump into cover, throw grenades, evade the incoming lasers while shooting back and so on. Really fun!

 

Am I doing something wrong? Why is the Jedi's combat so boring?

 

You are judging too quickly.

 

First and most importantly, i disagree completely with the statement of the combat beeing boring and just attacks with different names. That is the kind of combat you get on WoW and RIFT. What you dont notice, and i dont know how, is that every single melee attack on SWTOR has a different animation. There is no repetition of the same animation with a different color effect or sound effect. On every one you character moves differently.

 

With that said, i also think you didnt play enough to get a real feel. You can only get that at lvl40 when you unlock the 31 talent point skills. All the skill are obviously melee, wich is why they are melee classes. But, you have an aoe ability that can be powered to single target damage with talents, you got a channeled attack, you got DoT attacks, you got rage generators, Defensive cooldowns, stack building, resource management.

There is alot to the combat, and its frankly really good as i play mainly melee classes. I really have trouble seeing where you find boredom. I do play every class, but the melee ones are my favorites.

[Nemmar]

This is not Guild Wars 2 son.

 

The combat is repetitive, boring, conservative and non-dynamic like WoW.

 

 

But, hey, lightsabers!

 

The notion that WoW's combat is dynamic, not repeptetitive and not boring is laughable at best.

 

I really dont see how people think that 2-3 character animations recycled over 10 abilities of wich you only need to use 2-4 is anything but err... well utterly poor.

[AsheraII]

While I'm not a big fan of either the Jedi Knight or the Sith Warrior, the combat does get a little better once you reach about lvl 20-25, and the effects of your talents or skills become more apparent. At that point, you'll find some of your attacks become nearly useless, while others become more importent because of their buffs, additional effects and procs. I think the bigger problem of especially the initial levels of the Knight story would actually be the planet Tython. Once you leave, you'll be glad to not see another Fleshraider for ages. There's just too little variation in enemies, which takes a bit of the variety from the entire gameplay.

[Rafaman]

Thanks Rafaman for a thoughtful reply. As my Jedi character would say - I can see your wisdom :-)

 

It only saddens me that it is so because I can't really afford to give this game so much time. I play for the story and when that ends, so does the game for me.

 

No problem. And I understand your dilemma. Yes, it can take time to learn, but keep in mind, you learn as you go as well. So... as the stories unfold you will level and get new abilities. Just get in the habit of using them. Take your time with it and the stories. I think you will love it. The Knight story is particularly good.

[GnatB]

After that just out of curiosity I tried to play as a smuggler and immediately recognized the difference. You can jump into cover, throw grenades, evade the incoming lasers while shooting back and so on. Really fun!

 

Am I doing something wrong? Why is the Jedi's combat so boring?

 

it's not that Jedi's combat is so boring relative to smugglers. It's just that you were imaging a lot of things in the smuggler combat that simply isn't there. This isn't an action game. It's an RPG. YOU weren't evading anything. Throwing the grenades is just another form of slashing with a lightsaber.

[Socialist]

The notion that WoW's combat is dynamic, not repeptetitive and not boring is laughable at best.

 

I really dont see how people think that 2-3 character animations recycled over 10 abilities of wich you only need to use 2-4 is anything but err... well utterly poor.

 

You got it all backwards.

 

I said this game, like WoW, has such characteristics.

[oakamp]

it's not that Jedi's combat is so boring relative to smugglers. It's just that you were imaging a lot of things in the smuggler combat that simply isn't there. This isn't an action game. It's an RPG. YOU weren't evading anything. Throwing the grenades is just another form of slashing with a lightsaber.

wrong,

this is a arpg,

traditional rpg is like bg, ff8, mm6, kotor combat style.

[Khyle]

I agree that Smuggler feels (and should feel) more tactical, but the Jedi Knight still has different skills that do different things. The classes get more complex and tactical as they level up and that's undeniable, but even at the beginning they're not all the same skills.

 

Force Sweep is an AoE (area) skill and it also stuns trash mobs (weak and standard) for a short time.

Blade Storm briefly stuns the same type of mobs and it's slightly ranged.

Strike is a focus builder, just use it when you can't do something better. Leap is another builder.

 

The only instance when I really couldn't decide what skill to use (I'm talking early levels only) is Riposte vs Slash. Riposte is faster because it doesn't respect the Global Cooldown while the other is more powerful and (imo) recommendable in most instances except when you have a lot of focus built and you want to use both basically at the same time for some burst damage..

 

I'm not even going to delve into type of attacks (energy, kinetic, weapon damage...) since it doesn't really matter that much on early levels, though it will matter if you go Guardian and you get Sundering Strike right after, which decreases armor and makes targets more vulnerable to kinetic attacks like Sweep and Blade Storm.

 

This is just on early levels, of course.

Edited January 10, 2013 by Khyle