We have more players than GW2?

[Eldrenath]

well if it doesn't happen to you then must not happen of course to the thousands of players who replied and complained about lag they are more believable than you are. Wow really streaming, so there's tons of videos showing illium unplayable but because one guy has good quality then it must be everyone elses pc. Fan boys like you are the reason the game died the first time saying it's your pc look at my god like rig it runs perfect. Its funny that ps2,secret world, gw2 tons of other games all are playable and don't lag like crazy or have fps issues but swtor has had it since day one but its my pc. You just said the hero engine was fine and its my pc.

/end thread

 

First of all, as soon as you say the word "fan boy" in a post, you already aren't going to be taken seriously by reasonable people. Calling someone a "fanboy" just because they disagree with you damages your argument, not theirs.

 

I won't argue with you about Ilum, there seems to be plenty of documentation about the fact that the optimization of the area was rather poor, making the area unplayable for many, MANY players--far more than is acceptable. However, massive, open-world PvP is much more taxing on a PC than a lot of people on fleet. The post you are responding to specified the game as it currently stands, including fleet. Ilum was not mentioned, nor did anyone say that if Ilum didn't work for you then the problem was on your end.

 

However, a dissatisfied customer is far more likely to comment than a satisfied one. From personal experience, I can say that on a fairly out of date but well-maintained PC I get very solid performance playing SWTOR. Not flawless, and not on ultra-high settings. But very solid on medium-high settings. So I know that you don't HAVE to have a top-of-the-line machine to get solid and enjoyable gameplay. I also know from experience that most people's computers are performing far, far more poorly than they should because they don't maintain them properly.

 

Sure, there are anecdotal stories from many that they can play game x, game y, or game z without any issues whatsoever. But those are no more reliable statistically than are my own personal experience and the anecdotal experience of the many, many players that experience no significant performance issues.

 

Again, I'll grant you the argument on Ilum. Clearly something was wrong there, hence the absence of open-world PvP for so long. I believe I have read that they plan to re-introduce it soon (I could be wrong on that, I don't have a citation!) and if so I'll be interested to see the result. But I personally do not buy the argument that the game is unplayable and only very high-end systems can handle it.

[Variden]

Its hilarious, how obsessed you SWTOR fans are with comparing this..."MMO"...with GW2 or any other true massively multiplayer games on the market. Stick to worrying about this games fate, and stop worrying about other games, which, are doing quite well despite SWTOR existence.

 

Or perhaps, because of it?

 

SWTOR players downplaying GW2's PVE, claiming it to be shallow and boring...oh the irony.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Variden

[Variden]

First of all, as soon as you say the word "fan boy" in a post, you already aren't going to be taken seriously by reasonable people. Calling someone a "fanboy" just because they disagree with you damages your argument, not theirs.

 

And yet, how many of you will readily call someone a "Hater" simply because they disagree with your PoV? Basically, because they'd dare point out one, of many flaws, actual flaws, in this game. It cuts both ways on these forums, dont be purposely naive.

[sstanks]

Ah, there is your problem. A) It's not a game for you, probably because it dares to do things in a slightly different way and B) you blame a company for your own inability to keep your account save. Well, I can live with A, but B is something you should think about. The bubble that should have been bursted is your opinion, that you're not responsible for the safety of your own account.

 

Fun fact: unlike yours, mine and the accounts of many other GW2 players weren't compromised.

That must have some reason, right? ...

 

You're mad, nothing more. That's why you sing along this song. ;-)

 

a. you're right it wasn't the game for me. I was hoping for something more like GW1 but in a real MMO form. I did not get that. Instead i got Warhammer 2.0 another door attacking simulator.

 

b. I kept it safe on my end. The problem was THEY got hacked and didn't tell everyone right away

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/ingame/thousands-guild-wars-2-accounts-hacked-985019

 

http://www.geek.com/articles/games/more-than-11000-guild-wars-2-accounts-hacked-20120910/

 

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1195354-GW2-Poorest-Account-Security-ever

 

even the guys at Penny Arcade got hacked

 

http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2012/09/26

 

http://penny-arcade.com/2012/09/26

 

Yeah guess it was just me and poor security. The fact that you could change the password of an account with out verification is a HUGE security problem.

 

But i'm not mad. I moved on from the game. I don't spend my time on the forum of a game I don't like bashing it. Why waste my time with something I don't enjoy.

[sstanks]

There is less than 100 people most of the time. But even if it was 100 people the number is still very low.

Just think about it 3 servers with 100 people on each planet. That does not make up for a lot of people in total.

 

how many people do you think are in zones in World of Warcraft?

[Eldrenath]

I will never get the this game is better then this game talk. I feel bad for people who can't play many games and enjoy them for what they are. Loving one game just to hate another game is just silly. Love all games, or don't like games, but don't hate a game just cause you love other games.

 

+1 to you for an awesome point. MMO players are weird, they get so vitriolic and angry about games. The game they are currently playing is awesome and anyone that likes MMO X or MMO Y is stupid and doesn't know that it sucks or that there's something better or blah blah blah. Then there's the players that play a game, dislike it, and decide they must spew venom as often and as loudly as possible not only the game but on anyone that genuinely enjoys it.

 

I've played a decent number of different MMOs. Certainly not a whole bunch, but a few. Some I really enjoyed, some I really didn't. But in each one I could usually at least see why someone might like that game. Even if I didn't like it much myself, it didn't make the game bad. It just made it bad for me. For example, GW2. I've never played it. But from everything I've read, it seems to be very PvP centered, especially at end-game. That's great! It's just not great for me: I don't enjoy PvP (in no small part because I am terrible at it).

 

I'm not opposed to people that want to criticize a game because they like it and want to see it improve, I'm just opposed to people that are so rabidly opposed to games that it becomes utterly unreasonable.

[sstanks]

well if it doesn't happen to you then must not happen of course to the thousands of players who replied and complained about lag they are more believable than you are. Wow really streaming, so there's tons of videos showing illium unplayable but because one guy has good quality then it must be everyone elses pc. Fan boys like you are the reason the game died the first time saying it's your pc look at my god like rig it runs perfect. Its funny that ps2,secret world, gw2 tons of other games all are playable and don't lag like crazy or have fps issues but swtor has had it since day one but its my pc. You just said the hero engine was fine and its my pc.

/end thread

 

we are not talking about Ilum are we? I thought we were talking about people saying this game is unplayable with 20 people on fleet. I'm sure there are thousands of people who get lag in this game. Probably even more. The truth is a very small percentage of people have good computers. This is one of the reasons League of Legends is so huge and WoW. Because you can play both of those games with a really crappy computer.

 

I never once said the Hero engine was fine. Please don't try to make a straw man argument because you know you lost this one.

[Eldrenath]

Its hilarious, how obsessed you SWTOR fans are with comparing this..."MMO"...with GW2 or any other true massively multiplayer games on the market. Stick to worrying about this games fate, and stop worrying about other games, which, are doing quite well despite SWTOR existence.

 

Or perhaps, because of it?

 

SWTOR players downplaying GW2's PVE, claiming it to be shallow and boring...oh the irony.

 

I refuse to grant the premise of your argument, which again takes the very silly tone of "Well my opinions are facts, this is an "MMO" and comparing it's PvE unfavorably with that of GW2 is ironic". Here's the thing: I haven't played GW2. But I know this much: different types of games are enjoyed by different people for different reasons. You call this game an "MMO" sarcastically, and clearly aren't a fan of SWTOR. Which is fine, there are lots of games that I don't like. But the fact that you don't like SWTOR, the fact that you don't think it's a true MMO, and the fact that you seem to think GW2's PvE is superior is NOT a fact. It's an opinion.

 

The above post makes no good points--it simply states opinion as fact.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Eldrenath

[Marmerus]

how many people do you think are in zones in World of Warcraft?

Was going to say not that many so I loged in and had a look. The staring areas has around 80 people playing at the same time. Elwyn forest has so many players the list is capped so I guess there is a couple of hundred people. But mostly high levels dueling. And WoW has LOTS of starting areas unlike SWTOR that has 4.

[sstanks]

I will never get the this game is better then this game talk. I feel bad for people who can't play many games and enjoy them for what they are. Loving one game just to hate another game is just silly. Love all games, or don't like games, but don't hate a game just cause you love other games.

 

post of the year.

 

to add to this i never understood why people want other games to fail. Dont people realize that competition ALWAYS benefits the customer.

[alyris]

I don't have any numbers, but if you look at the GM and see how many Cartel items are for sale. This game is FAR from dying. Then look at the starter zones and there are 2 instances with over 100 each, I would say this game is doing QUITE well.

I would say from a pure income point of view, this has got to be one of the highest grossing MMO games out there (obviously WoW with its huge subscriber base is #1). I would dare say this game is #2 from a gross margin point of view.

[Mazikeen]

From my limited time on GW2, I felt that the game was pretty and had alot of fluff in the sense of things to see and listen to.

 

Once you got past the fluff (puzzles, jumping, vista points) it was just a boring PvE game with a world pvp endgame. Not even sure there's anything else to do atm. You can only attack a keeps walls for so long before you get bored of it.

 

This. GW2 is a fantastic game, but it's lack of raids (which is good, really) and it's crap PvP leaves it in a hole after you gear up. They tried introducing new dungeons, but I quit right before then, they were also adding a gear grind.

 

But for a B2P game, it's very nice and worth having on your computer. SWTOR simply has more 'traditional' endgame than GW2

[lokozar]

a. you're right it wasn't the game for me. I was hoping for something more like GW1 but in a real MMO form. I did not get that. Instead i got Warhammer 2.0 another door attacking simulator.

 

b. I kept it safe on my end. The problem was THEY got hacked and didn't tell everyone right away

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/ingame/thousands-guild-wars-2-accounts-hacked-985019

 

http://www.geek.com/articles/games/more-than-11000-guild-wars-2-accounts-hacked-20120910/

 

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1195354-GW2-Poorest-Account-Security-ever

 

even the guys at Penny Arcade got hacked

 

http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2012/09/26

 

http://penny-arcade.com/2012/09/26

 

Yeah guess it was just me and poor security. The fact that you could change the password of an account with out verification is a HUGE security problem.

 

But i'm not mad. I moved on from the game. I don't spend my time on the forum of a game I don't like bashing it. Why waste my time with something I don't enjoy.

 

Have you even read these sources?

 

'"Hackers have lists of email addresses and passwords stolen from other games and websites, and collected through spyware, and are systematically testing 'Guild Wars 2' looking for matching accounts," ArenaNet staff wrote on this wiki page tracking the issue.'

 

You know what this means? It means, you've created a GW2 account with the same credentials you used with another service. That's plain and simple actual fault. It's known for many years now, that no one should do this. They just have to crack one website, steal the data and try them on common services like Yahoo, Google, MSN, MMOs and so on. All the programms games and services you used were compromised, if they exhibited the same login data - not only your GW2 account.

 

Of course these people can change your password, if they also have access to your E-Mail account with said information.

 

That's hardly Anets fault or any other company's, ... it's yours.

[Jett-Rinn]

I loaded up GW2 saw the horrible voice acting and super lame "Dynamic Quest" and uninstalled. I'll stick with TOR thank you.

[Marmerus]

I don't have any numbers, but if you look at the GM and see how many Cartel items are for sale. This game is FAR from dying. Then look at the starter zones and there are 2 instances with over 100 each, I would say this game is doing QUITE well.

I would say from a pure income point of view, this has got to be one of the highest grossing MMO games out there (obviously WoW with its huge subscriber base is #1). I would dare say this game is #2 from a gross margin point of view.

But this game is now F2P and should be compared to other F2P games. And then there is lots of asian MMOs that is MUCH larger than WoW is and ever will be.

Take Perfect World and their 50 million players back in 2009. That is a number blizzard can only dream of.

[LeonBraun]

From my limited time on GW2, I felt that the game was pretty and had alot of fluff in the sense of things to see and listen to.

 

Once you got past the fluff (puzzles, jumping, vista points) it was just a boring PvE game with a world pvp endgame. Not even sure there's anything else to do atm. You can only attack a keeps walls for so long before you get bored of it.

 

Oh and I hated the combat system, always felt like I was waitting on CD's with my Necro. I also hated the fact that there was no pure healer spec's as that's what I enjoy doing in PvP. DPS bores me after a while.

 

No clue on how it's doing though, but I doubt it's doing badly.

 

True... You take out Tank/Heal classes and that alienates a good chunk of the player base... Keep in mind here, it's not the game companies, that invented Tanks/Heals, it was the players, and the MMO companies picked up on this and backed it up. It's natural for people to want to play different roles, and keeps the game fun.

 

I've done all 3 roles and continue to, it keeps the game fresh.

 

GW2 is a pretty game... But it's incredibly dull.

[Fraeblood]

But this game is now F2P and should be compared to other F2P games. And then there is lots of asian MMOs that is MUCH larger than WoW is and ever will be.

Take Perfect World and their 50 million players back in 2009. That is a number blizzard can only dream of.

 

NO It should not be compared. For one, SWTOR has a Sub, and GW2 does not. And the gameplay is almost 100% different. Apple and Oranges. Comparing them just because they are both video games does nothing but continue useless conversations. but it is nice to see someone take notice to the whole market. So many just look at the US market and stop. The asian market makes the US market look like a grain of sand in the scheme of things.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Fraeblood

[LeonBraun]

I don't have any numbers, but if you look at the GM and see how many Cartel items are for sale. This game is FAR from dying. Then look at the starter zones and there are 2 instances with over 100 each, I would say this game is doing QUITE well.

I would say from a pure income point of view, this has got to be one of the highest grossing MMO games out there (obviously WoW with its huge subscriber base is #1). I would dare say this game is #2 from a gross margin point of view.

 

Yep.

 

The game is fine player wise and has no issues at all... If EA/BioWare have enough sense to start supporting with some meaty content right now, they will be in good shape, and getting better to come.

[sstanks]

Have you even read these sources?

 

'"Hackers have lists of email addresses and passwords stolen from other games and websites, and collected through spyware, and are systematically testing 'Guild Wars 2' looking for matching accounts," ArenaNet staff wrote on this wiki page tracking the issue.'

 

You know what this means? It means, you've created a GW2 account with the same credentials you used with another service. That's plain and simple actual fault. It's known for many years now, that no one should do this. They just have to crack one website, steal the data and try them on common services like Yahoo, Google, MSN, MMOs and so on. All the programms games and services you used were compromised, if they exhibited the same login data - not only your GW2 account.

 

Of course these people can change your password, if they also have access to your E-Mail account with said information.

 

That's hardly Anets fault or any other company's, ... it's yours.

 

no you didn't read it. The problem was that they could change YOUR password WITH OUT YOUR EMAIL.

 

I use a different password for every game as everyone should. If they get your email, just your address nothing else. They can use that and force their way in ie by using programs that generate passwords. GW2 had NO LOCK OUT. Meaning they just try and try again till they figured out the password.

 

Once they had the password they could change your password WITH OUT having access to your email. Arena nets SYSTEM DIDN"T SEND VERIFICATION EMAILS FOR CHANGE OF PASSWORD. Now your account is 100% locked out because ARENANET doesn't even have basic security protocals that even Hotmail has.

 

It has nothing to do with fansites or using the same password.

 

 

(all caps are not out of anger, they are just there so I make sure you see them before you post again with out actually reading)

[well]

Very good argument, I like how you pointed out it's flaws in great detail.

 

lol Target cease fire:eek:

[Nemmar]

This. GW2 is a fantastic game, but it's lack of raids (which is good, really) and it's crap PvP leaves it in a hole after you gear up. They tried introducing new dungeons, but I quit right before then, they were also adding a gear grind.

 

But for a B2P game, it's very nice and worth having on your computer. SWTOR simply has more 'traditional' endgame than GW2

 

How does that add up? Its a fantastic game, but its terribly boring and has no content? That would be a BAD game right?

 

Were not even mentioning how terrible the combat is aswell. Auto-attack fest.

[TheHunterC]

It's great to see that the community in swtor is growing! I love the game and hope it lasts and is updated with new content for as long as possible. I'm happy that more people have decided to play this game

[Petnil]

The best part of GW2 is the exploration imo. That´s a place where GW>SWTOR

Solo gaming is about the same.

Group gaming is kinda ok, i do miss the tank/healer thing though SWTOR wins there

Stability. well, i havent had a random dc in GW2 yet. lost count on how many i´ve had in swtor.

PvP, no idea since i dont pvp, lets call it a draw.

Endgame. No idea (havent made it to endgame in GW2) but seeing the endgame in swtor GW2 cant be that far behind.

The world. Nothing beats star wars. That´s the main reason people pick swtor over any other mmo. Not the class stories. The GW2 world is not engaging. The worlds are more alive and feel less restricted, but i´m not feeling anything for this world. Tatooine e.x. is boring and lifeless in comparison, but it´s starwars. That just brings something extra.

 

For me the main draw in GW2 is the stability and fewer bugs. And i like the way they aply patches.

For me the main draw in swtor is that it´s star wars. That´s basicly it. Also i like the basic trinity group thing. The stability and lag in FP´s is not helping though.

[Vlacke]

SWTOR > GW2 in many departments, to me at least.

[Viikuna]

Only reason why i'm not currently playing GW2 is, because there are no healers.

 

I've played a healer in MMORPG's since 2005. I even do in some FPS games like Battlefield (medic). I tried, but i get bored of the gameplay in under 1 hour, because healing is the thing i find fun.